PDA

View Full Version : Serious Post- New dedicated server...hard core



xynxie
03-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Now granted, I am real new to this game...and as far as this type of game QuakeII and Diablo II are as close as I have come. So my idea may be a programming nightmare of which I coldn't possibly understand or the tecnology available ATM doesn't make it cost effective to implement the following..and this may have been suggested before....but if any and all of this is true flame away...if not...may I get some positive input or tweeking of the ideas.

A dedicated server where each of the following is implemented:

1) 28 pt builds til 1200k favor then 32....Drow at 600
2) No tweeking the charater....mail would be used for NPC notification of favor only
3) No auction house....prevents tweeking
4) All items that can be worn are bound cept arrows, bolts, scrolls and the like....that way they can't be traded to other guildies to trade back with another toon to tweek
5) Baggage items are tradeable....got to be able to give a curse pot
6) Would need to scale the cost of shop items to fit the fact that there may be a bit less money in game...as ya have to sell all that loot in shops. But on the flipside ya may be able to get that armor or weapon in house D or K since plat farmers won't get it first.

*Had an edit here but it was seriously flawed*

I am sure there is more.but I am typing on my phone and its starting to hurt. But ya get the gist.

This is not to say this is hardcore DnD but more hardcore in how ya level...resource usage and stuff....slows it down a lil bit.

I am not against tweeking....matter of fact...I love it..my noob butt needs it just to learn....just thinking of ways to make it a bit tougher for those that think its to easy

*EDIT*
I have read some replies...thanks....I did not say I wanted to play this way....matter of fact I stated I love my twinked toons....what I was suggesting this for was for those folks that say the game is to easy and not enough content and cap out quickly due to twinking

Also I think may making it a single toon server with automatic 32pt builds may be better....play what your good at

Also...thought of permadeath....but this would discourage inviting new folks ya are not sure of in groups I think

Also thought of making it a favor server with completely different adventures starting lvl1 and up....say at 3k favor it opens an area(like the 12 before it opened) where you take in whatever toon you want....the toon is reborn and wahlah...it has 32pt favor of your account but your a noob again, no memory of your former life and naked... however now if your toon dies its dead....you then get to make a single toon for this specific area....then maybe ya could implemment

A few other things I kicked around and newer flame material

*END EDIT*

flame away....its my only serious post ever

Angelus_dead
03-03-2008, 12:51 PM
The best (only) rules to change on a "hardcore" server would be these:
1. All items are bind-on-acquire.
2. No giving of gold from one character to another.

Invalid_86
03-03-2008, 01:33 PM
The best (only) rules to change on a "hardcore" server would be these:
1. All items are bind-on-acquire.
2. No giving of gold from one character to another.


Ding ding ding! This would be awesome!

Add on "no enhancements, treasure tables have a -1 applied to them, and Drow have a +2 LA applied to them" and you'd really have a game.

Strakeln
03-03-2008, 01:41 PM
There's probably no way to express this without it seeming like I'm trying to rain all over your parade, but that's not my intention.

I don't understand the desire for this. It is something you can implement yourself with considerable ease.

1) Don't make a drow until you reach 600 favor (not sure what you meant by "1200k" for 32-ptrs, considering we get 32's at 1750 now...)
2) Don't twink your characters
3) Don't use the auction house
4) Use, sell, or store your items, do not trade them
5) Trade potions
6) Give away your money if you have too much.

Why set up a special server when you already have the ability to fully realize your stated desires?

Zuldar
03-03-2008, 01:46 PM
There's probably no way to express this without it seeming like I'm trying to rain all over your parade, but that's not my intention.

I don't understand the desire for this. It is something you can implement yourself with considerable ease.

1) Don't make a drow until you reach 600 favor (not sure what you meant by "1200k" for 32-ptrs, considering we get 32's at 1750 now...)
2) Don't twink your characters
3) Don't use the auction house
4) Use, sell, or store your items, do not trade them
5) Trade potions
6) Give away your money if you have too much.

Why set up a special server when you already have the ability to fully realize your stated desires?

Because even if he did that nobody else likely would. What he's asking for is somewhat the equivalent of a low magic campaign in dnd. Everyone would be on even ground.

I would think such a server to be very interesting to say the least. The question of whether it's a viable idea is how many people would play on the server?

Razvan
03-03-2008, 01:52 PM
Because even if he did that nobody else likely would. What he's asking for is somewhat the equivalent of a low magic campaign in dnd. Everyone would be on even ground.

I would think such a server to be very interesting to say the least. The question of whether it's a viable idea is how many people would play on the server?

But how does the "not being on even ground" with everyone affect your play?....

Does that barbarian who ate 6 +3 tomes and has all the raid gear prevent you from doing any quest your way??....

I don't understand what is stopping players from playing the game the way they want...IF you all want the same thing then why not start playing on the same server, maybe even from a guild and play by the rules outlined above...don't create drow until you have 600 favor don't use anything that doesn't drop for you etc.

Many players have done that already and are playing permadeath and they are not phased by those "tweaked" builds around you...


Ah, but this is not about not being able to play the game the way you want, is it?...This is about human nature, about jealousy and envy and about greed...because if it wasn't about those things then your "hard-core" server is already here: juust pick one out of the existing ones!!!

Lorien_the_First_One
03-03-2008, 02:14 PM
But how does the "not being on even ground" with everyone affect your play?....

Does that barbarian who ate 6 +3 tomes and has all the raid gear prevent you from doing any quest your way??....

Because the devs balance the monsters knowing the level of twinking in game.

That said... its a waste of resources for the devs to maintain two seperate games. You are talking serious coding differences that will have to be maintained in parallell over time.

Hafeal
03-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Because even if he did that nobody else likely would.

Uh, not true.

Try permadeath.

In addition to all the rules mentioned - you die, you dead. ;)

Deathwatch Guard Permadeath on Khyber can accomodate your enlistment as can many other permadeath Guilds. Hope to see you soon!

Razvan
03-03-2008, 02:52 PM
Because the devs balance the monsters knowing the level of twinking in game.

That said... its a waste of resources for the devs to maintain two seperate games. You are talking serious coding differences that will have to be maintained in parallell over time.


Nope nope...they balance HARD and ELITE according to the level of twinkage...people can still play normal just fine

And yeah, the waste of resources does not even come close to justifying making such a server...

Phalkhan
03-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Yes I do agree with ya here, I would like to see a "hardcore server" that impliments a bit more stricter rule set. But why stop at the "gear" aspect of it ..

Make AoE spells effect party members too( this should be in all elite instances IMHO). See how long folks shield block doors for a FW.. ( least till the get high enough resists).. let the zerging caster, kill off the party and the monsters..and hope the cleric was out of range..for that last Cone of Cold.

Make a second roll on a 'crit failure' ;to see wether you lose your grip on your weapon ..and have to reequip, get hit with spell rebounding ... dazing caster for 1-2 rounds,

You can only be rezzed the same amount of times you have con bonus score... con of 18= 4 rezz..then permadeath..

to name a few right off hand.. I am sure some others will pop to mind for some of us old PnP players... ( thinks back to some of the ways DMs had kittens trying to kill off some of our parties/making parties kill themselves... the latter was my fav while DMimg..hehehe)

But as I am sure has been said..or will be ..less then a year ago they merged servers...so adding a new/changing a presnt, server.. prolly isn't in the cards... not to mention the added pain of a seperate programing lines ( updates, mods, hotpatches) which in all probibility would require more Turbine staff being alloted for DDO ( PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do it anyway..and fix the ladder bugs)



Now granted, I am real new to this game...and as far as this type of game QuakeII and Diablo II are as close as I have come.

6) Would need to scale the cost of shop items to fit the fact that there may be a bit less money in game...as ya have to sell all that loot in shops. But on the flipside ya may be able to get that armor or weapon in house D or K since plat farmers won't get it first.



FYI In D2 the instances stay open for 5 min after everyone is out...so players can drop loot on the ground to come pick up with thier "mule" ( open and battle nets)

and there are TONS of gold/item farmers everwhere in D2... I see actuall toons getting sold lots for Diablo 2, to boot.

and if your real problem is only the 'gear' side of it .. I suggest building a haggle bard.. mine at lvl 4 unbuffed sells better then a buffed lvl15 ftr (has a 10 char. accidently ate a tome :( )with a 13 haggle item. Cause there is no way they are gonna change anything if it is only loot based ( that is a very very slippery slope as a NWN mod builder I know that one all too well)

Impaqt
03-03-2008, 03:12 PM
Because the devs balance the monsters knowing the level of twinking in game.

That said... its a waste of resources for the devs to maintain two seperate games. You are talking serious coding differences that will have to be maintained in parallell over time.

I disagree.... Normal settings can be completed just fine by level appropriet group of untwinked characters.

Hard and Elite do get challenging..... Thats where the Twinking comes into play.

TO the OP: I fyou want to play this way, nothing is stopping you. If you really think there is such a desire for this gameplay, try starting a guild or a static group.....

Invalid_86
03-03-2008, 10:50 PM
TO the OP: I fyou want to play this way, nothing is stopping you. If you really think there is such a desire for this gameplay, try starting a guild or a static group.....


One thing does stop you- the rest of the game is made for Monty Haul loot and this-would-never-happen-in-PnP level twinking.

Sensible characters + monsters scaled for those characters would equal a far better balanced game.

Overinflation and bloated stats infest whole sections of the game. Look through the forums and you see the signs.

Memnir
03-03-2008, 11:12 PM
This does not require a special server. It requires the discipline needed to run with the Permadeath guilds out there. I'd recomend hooking up with one of them, and enjoy.

Uska
03-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Why raise the favor needed for Drow but lower it for 32pt builds? I say raise it for both, 600 for drow and 2000 32 if you really want to make things a little harder, even better dont allow drow or 32pt builds at all. But we dont really need a seperate server for something only a few would do. You can do all these yourself with some of the guilds out there or even start your own and make the rules. If you tell people they have to take the default build thats still 28 pts even if they have 1750 favor.

GlassCannon
03-03-2008, 11:52 PM
There's probably no way to express this without it seeming like I'm trying to rain all over your parade, but that's not my intention.

I don't understand the desire for this. It is something you can implement yourself with considerable ease.

1) Don't make a drow until you reach 600 favor (not sure what you meant by "1200k" for 32-ptrs, considering we get 32's at 1750 now...)
2) Don't twink your characters
3) Don't use the auction house
4) Use, sell, or store your items, do not trade them
5) Trade potions
6) Give away your money if you have too much.

Why set up a special server when you already have the ability to fully realize your stated desires?

They clearly lack both the brainpower and willpower to implement such a thing.

It's simple. Very simple. Very easy. Some people are simply incapable of doing what they say, and want everyone else to suffer because of it.

I personally want to make 1(one) God character(Creation Screen, all stats cost 1 point all the way to 100 STR/DEX/INT/CHA/Whatever, you are given 150 points). Red Name Boss Ward permanent effect.

Hvymetal
03-04-2008, 05:50 AM
Nope nope...they balance HARD and ELITE according to the level of twinkage...people can still play normal just fine

And yeah, the waste of resources does not even come close to justifying making such a server...Actually I believe they balance hard and elite by just bumping up the stats and dc's of normal a bit, so in effect they also balance normal based upon the re;ative level of twinkage in the game......

Lorien_the_First_One
03-04-2008, 06:50 AM
The real answer to this is DDO 2.0, assuming Turbine gets the license for D&D4.0 in 6-12 months...

The reality is they will need to restart from scratch to bring in the 4.0 rules and that gives them the opportunity to rethink the monty hall approach to the game if they are smart and stick closer to the D&D rules.

Pecky
03-04-2008, 06:54 AM
1) Don't make a drow until you reach 600 favor (not sure what you meant by "1200k" for 32-ptrs, considering we get 32's at 1750 now...)

Just for the amusement factor.

What don't you understand?

He wants you to get 32 point builds at 1,200,000 favor, not 1750 :D

(But its ok to have that "32 point" drow at 600.)

BlueLightBandit
03-04-2008, 08:17 AM
Because the devs balance the monsters knowing the level of twinking in game.

Do we have confirmed evidence of this, or just speculation?

I can run every "House" quest (not desert, gianthold, vale, but House J, House P, House K, House D) just fine with a ml 4 +3 longsword. Sure the vorpal handed down makes it *easier*, but it is entirely possible to do without one.

My gut says no to a "hard core" server, but if it would mean I wouldn't ever have to run in a group with someone who thinks they're better than me... I'm all for getting the riff-raff off my server and onto someone elses.

totmacher
03-04-2008, 08:22 AM
I'd love to see a permadeath server with one life rules, in addition to all of these. There can be only one!

Mercules
03-04-2008, 08:35 AM
Do we have confirmed evidence of this, or just speculation?

Oddly enough the name is prophetic, "Proof is in the Poison". Compare that quest to the other quest of the same level developed over a year earlier. Pretty clear proof that current content is designed around a higher expected base.

Heladron
03-04-2008, 09:13 AM
Oddly enough the name is prophetic, "Proof is in the Poison". Compare that quest to the other quest of the same level developed over a year earlier. Pretty clear proof that current content is designed around a higher expected base.

Proof is in the Poison can be tough, but Clearing the Air or whatever that troglodyte quest, by Red Fang, is called has been there since the beginning and nobody likes that quest because it can be pretty difficult.

I'm not sure there is direct evidence of quests scaling to level of Twinkage. The reason I believe it could be speculation is that I run in a PD guild a couple times a week and have run some of the quests up to elite now and trust me the coolest thing some of the guys have are lesser reptilian bane. We are able to complete the quests on elite because we don't over pull mobs. We use our heads a bit more and play slower. Haste makes waste. But it's not for everyone and that's why the PD guilds and No-Twink guilds can be fun. It just let's the players decide how they want to play and the developers do what they do.

To the OP, I'd recommend trying out PD just for the fun of it. I'm doing PD now because I've twinked almost all my characters on my home server to insane amounts. It used to be fun to see how much faster each twinked character could make it to level 14. Now it's not fun anymore, at least not for me.

I'm not for another server though. It's easy enough to play in a No-Twink or Permadeath with No-Twink or any of the variations of guilds out there.

BlueLightBandit
03-04-2008, 09:35 AM
Oddly enough the name is prophetic, "Proof is in the Poison". Compare that quest to the other quest of the same level developed over a year earlier. Pretty clear proof that current content is designed around a higher expected base.

Again. This is just speculation.

Higher level content is by definition... higher level. As quests get harder, the utility of a +5 weapon lessens... but that by no means the devs are designing quests with banishers, disruptors, and vorpals in mind.

Back on to the point... The OP is fine to follow whatever ruleset he wishes, as long as those rules fall within the parameters if he wishes. The desire for a sever with separate rules seems merely to be able to prove to others that it can be done. Oddly enough, the majority of us that have been here a long time are aware it can be done... so the intent to have proof seems juvenile.

Mercules
03-04-2008, 09:40 AM
I'm not for another server though. It's easy enough to play in a No-Twink or Permadeath with No-Twink or any of the variations of guilds out there.

It is, and it is not. For one thing you usually have a couple characters in a No-Twink or PD guild and you are limited to running with the guild. That is it. If your guild doesn't have anyone on Wednesday 10AM when you have a day off, you don't play No-Twink/PD, do you? If there was an actual server with that style then you could PuG a group. Some guilds are more active at certain times and they are spread across numerous servers. Finding a guild with the set of rules you want to play, active around the times you like to play, with characters of appropriate level isn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Most of those guilds do not want you to solo either so you wait and wait and wait, and then log into your non-PD characters or find a different guild. A server with rules means I don't have to join and only play with one tiny group of people.

Impaqt
03-04-2008, 10:00 AM
A Basic Sheild Clicky (SHeild Spell for Arcanes and Nightsheild for Clerics) and a 10pt Acid resist and Proof becomes a Cake walk on Normal. It doesnt get difficult until hard and Elite.

ANd yes, Swiped Signet and Clearing the air ar ein teh same level range and have been out since the beginning and are just as if not more difficult.

Invalid_86
03-04-2008, 05:49 PM
They clearly lack both the brainpower and willpower to implement such a thing.

It's simple. Very simple. Very easy. Some people are simply incapable of doing what they say, and want everyone else to suffer because of it.

I personally want to make 1(one) God character(Creation Screen, all stats cost 1 point all the way to 100 STR/DEX/INT/CHA/Whatever, you are given 150 points). Red Name Boss Ward permanent effect.

Simply not true.

A real DnD server would also have the quests and rewards balanced to reflect the changes presented. Monsters would actually resemble the listings in the Monster Manual!

What you are talking about is playing a straight character in an insanely overinflated world- a very big difference.

Brainpower and willpower have nothing to do with it.

Arianrhod
03-04-2008, 06:09 PM
A Basic Sheild Clicky (SHeild Spell for Arcanes and Nightsheild for Clerics) and a 10pt Acid resist and Proof becomes a Cake walk on Normal. It doesnt get difficult until hard and Elite.

ANd yes, Swiped Signet and Clearing the air ar ein teh same level range and have been out since the beginning and are just as if not more difficult.

Er...one shield clicky? That lasts less than 1 minute. The quest tends to run half an hour or more without haste (level 4 quest, remember), and has only one shrine. Not saying it isn't doable, but "cake walk" may be a bit of an exaggeration. On the other hand, Freshen the Air has gotten significantly easier since release (many trog shamas replaced with kobold throwers), so the evidence of increased difficulty to cater to twinks is a bit mixed as well. Currently, the game is a bit rough for the non-twinked crowd, but doable with patience & skill. I hope it stays that way.

As for dedicated specialty servers, I think they could add an interesting dimension to the game, but we will likely have to wait a bit longer for them. It was stated long ago that they weren't planned (at least at present), and there are a lot of other things people want as well, that are being worked on (I believe more races and classes, for instance, and, always, more and more content).

Strakeln
03-04-2008, 07:28 PM
Just for the amusement factor.

What don't you understand?

He wants you to get 32 point builds at 1,200,000 favor, not 1750 :D

(But its ok to have that "32 point" drow at 600.)Heh. :D

I'm guessing he's confused on how much favor you currently need for 32-pt builds. Maybe he thinks it's 800 or 1000.