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villainsimple
03-01-2008, 02:49 AM
I was looking at the spell descriptions today... and I saw something kind of shocking... but yeah...

Burning Blood is the most damaging single target spell in the game... assuming nothing impedes it and you have the correct feats and enhancements and items.


Why?

Extend Spell.

Burning blood deals 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage every 6 seconds per caster level.

Now... here's where it gets interesting... you can apply maximize... empower... AND extend to this spell.

So, let's do the math for the spell alone... at most for a 16th level caster (without any feats or enhancements), burning blood would do 256 damage.

Now, let's apply potency and enhancements (for both fire and acid)

So 50%(128)+40%(102)+256=486... now... we maximize it... so 486+486...=972... and we empower it... 486*.5=253.. 972+253=1225



Now we get to the REALLY juicy part...

Extend Spell... which effectively doubles ALL the previous damage because it doubles the duration.

So without ANY crits... 1225x2=2450...

Two thousand four hundred and fifty damage max at level 16.... or an average... again, without crits... of about 1225.

With Crits... well, yeah... you get the point.

Borror0
03-01-2008, 03:03 AM
On the other hand, Acid damage doesn't stack so... makes Acid focus pretty lame. Has its use, but mostly for soloing, low maning I guess.

villainsimple
03-01-2008, 03:04 AM
Acid damage doesn't stack?

Angelus_dead
03-01-2008, 03:20 AM
Two thousand four hundred and fifty damage max at level 16.... or an average... again, without crits... of about 1225.
Finger of Death can kill an 8000 hitpoint monster in one shot. And it'll be dead NOW, not ten minutes from now.

villainsimple
03-01-2008, 03:29 AM
Finger of Death can kill an 8000 hitpoint monster in one shot. And it'll be dead NOW, not ten minutes from now.

I've yet to see it work on a cr 1 skeleton.

Memnir
03-01-2008, 03:36 AM
That is the difference between research and reality. Yes, on paper Burning Blood is a great spell. However, I quickly ditched it after trying it for a while since it won't ever make a spell casting monster fail a concentration check; and the long time needed for the damage potential of Burning Blood to pay off is not as time effective as having the tanks beat on the monster till it dies or with a few casts of other spells. Also, with many monsters putting Fire Resist up now, the damage potential for Burning Blood is greatly reduced. Lastly, as a caster - I cannot afford to wait that long for something to die... the longer it takes for something to die is time it has to beat my robed butt down. Outside of a very few and specific instances - Burning Blood is not worth the time or troubles, if ya ask me.

Memnir
03-01-2008, 03:40 AM
I've yet to see it work on a cr 1 skeleton.By the time you can cast Burning Blood - Magic Missile will take out a CR 1 skeleton with a single cast for less spell points.

Angelus_dead
03-01-2008, 03:43 AM
Outside of a very few and specific instances - Burning Blood is not worth the time or troubles, if ya ask me.
There are rare circumstances where a long DOT can be worth it- only on high hitpoint bosses that will take over a minute to fight regardless.

But in that case, Acid Arrow is better than Burning Blood. Not only is acid damage less resisted than fire, but crucially acid arrow allows no save. The big monsters who you'd want to hurt with a DOT also usually have a good fort save and will take no damage from Burning Blood at all.

Angelus_dead
03-01-2008, 03:46 AM
So without ANY crits... 1225x2=2450...
Well, an extended Wall of Fire hits for over 24 ticks, right? Each tick can do over 300 damage so that's 7200 and already beating Burning Blood.

Then factor in that a single WOF can hit 10+ mobs at once, and it's 20x as good as Burning Blood's highest potential.

GeneralDiomedes
03-01-2008, 03:49 AM
But in that case, Acid Arrow is better than Burning Blood. Not only is acid damage less resisted than fire, but crucially acid arrow allows no save.

Extend, Maximize, Run FTW!

villainsimple
03-01-2008, 04:15 AM
Well, an extended Wall of Fire hits for over 24 ticks, right? Each tick can do over 300 damage so that's 7200 and already beating Burning Blood.

Then factor in that a single WOF can hit 10+ mobs at once, and it's 20x as good as Burning Blood's highest potential.

When did WoF become single target?

Angelus_dead
03-01-2008, 04:26 AM
When did WoF become single target?
When there's only one mob in the instance?

Hendrik
03-01-2008, 10:57 AM
When did WoF become single target?

When WIZ/SOR starting using this to kill anything and everything by casting it and standing in it.

:(

This spell is the most damaging TO THE GAME.

Impaqt
03-01-2008, 11:00 AM
I've yet to see it work on a cr 1 skeleton.

Skeletons have Blood?

Mad_Bombardier
03-01-2008, 11:07 AM
The problem with Burning Blood (and with all DoT spells) is that it's low damage over time. 30 point Resist Energy: Fire and Acid reduces the mighty 2432 max damage (Extend/Max/Empower) to a pitiful 512 max damage. And that 512 damage occurs 16 pts at a time over a 1:04. The spell is very useful for shutting off Troll regen, but is limited to those cases.

Also, the creature is supposed to get a Fort save to resist damage on each and every damage tick. Whenever that gets fixed, this spell will be lost to the arcane archives.

Drider
03-01-2008, 11:25 AM
I've yet to see it work on a cr 1 skeleton.


Umm burning blood isn't going to kill any undead....

ViVid7th
03-01-2008, 04:14 PM
And aren't undead immune to death effects like Slay Living and Finger of Death?

WeaselKing
03-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Now, let's apply potency and enhancements (for both fire and acid)

So 50%(128)+40%(102)+256=486... now... we maximize it... so 486+486...=972... and we empower it... 486*.5=253.. 972+253=1225


Math is wrong at his point. Should be:

256*(1+.5(potency)+.4(enhancements)+1(maximize)+.5 (empower))=256*3.9=998

You can go ahead and double for extend at this point to yield: 1996

GlassCannon
03-02-2008, 02:02 AM
Math is wrong at his point. Should be:

256*(1+.5(potency)+.4(enhancements)+1(maximize)+.5 (empower))=256*3.9=998

You can go ahead and double for extend at this point to yield: 1996

x3.25 for a Critical: 6487 damage
or
x3.75 for maxed nuker...: 7485...

This assumes your Potency item is not a weapon, and you are dualwielding Superior Acid Lore and Superior Fire Lore.

Not going back to check the other math, heading to bed instead. My Acid/Lightning nuker likes this spell. I just wish Codog would fix Acid Rain to act like Fire Wall and stick around for a while so I can use it as an AoE Constant.

Uska
03-02-2008, 02:10 AM
Well, an extended Wall of Fire hits for over 24 ticks, right? Each tick can do over 300 damage so that's 7200 and already beating Burning Blood.

Then factor in that a single WOF can hit 10+ mobs at once, and it's 20x as good as Burning Blood's highest potential.

Key line in op's post single target spell he didnt say spell that does the most damage period.

Mad_Bombardier
03-02-2008, 10:39 AM
Math is wrong at his point. Should be:

256*(1+.5(potency)+.4(enhancements)+1(maximize)+.5 (empower))=256*3.9=998

You can go ahead and double for extend at this point to yield: 1996The math is rounded, but correct. Metamagics multiply by the base and by the static spell boost and by spell crits.

Base * (Potency + Manipulation) * (Maximize + Empower) * (Lore + Lineage). With each multiplying by the other, you can potentially get Base x13.0625 on a spell crit.

Luthen
03-02-2008, 11:41 AM
I was looking at the spell descriptions today... and I saw something kind of shocking... but yeah...

Burning Blood is the most damaging single target spell in the game... assuming nothing impedes it and you have the correct feats and enhancements and items.


Why?

Extend Spell.

Burning blood deals 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage every 6 seconds per caster level.

Now... here's where it gets interesting... you can apply maximize... empower... AND extend to this spell.

So, let's do the math for the spell alone... at most for a 16th level caster (without any feats or enhancements), burning blood would do 256 damage.

Now, let's apply potency and enhancements (for both fire and acid)

So 50%(128)+40%(102)+256=486... now... we maximize it... so 486+486...=972... and we empower it... 486*.5=253.. 972+253=1225



Now we get to the REALLY juicy part...

Extend Spell... which effectively doubles ALL the previous damage because it doubles the duration.

So without ANY crits... 1225x2=2450...

Two thousand four hundred and fifty damage max at level 16.... or an average... again, without crits... of about 1225.

With Crits... well, yeah... you get the point.

I really... REALLY want to agree with you but there are some flaws. To many things, more so lately, has resistance to either fire or acid. Not to mention that the DOT of Burning Blood takes awhile to happen so is most effective against big mobs or bosses. then again most bosses are resistant or immune to either fire or acid so again it's being reduced by 1/2 or more consistantly. So your statement that BB does the most damage is true but only under specific circumstances and not overall. It's still great but Fire, Cold or even Electric instant damage spells stillo allow for more consistant big bang DPS.

Now a Max+Empower+Extended Burning Blood in PvP is not just strong but annoying for players you land it on. Whether or not they have resists. :D

MrWizard
03-02-2008, 12:28 PM
for naysayers...

cast burning blood and then charm,,,, no problem..the mob dies while helping you..