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View Full Version : A feat for Mutliclassed Casters?



EpicEbo
02-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Hey devs,

Let me start this post by saying that i understand that when you multiclass you are cutting down your overall effectiveness of each class. Also i would like to thank you for the implementation of the new feats that help out folks who chose to multi-class. The ability to change a saving throw from one stat to another is simply huge.

My suggestion or request goes to those of us who have done the unthinkable and created evenly leveled multi-classed casters. I began the journey of Laquido as soon as i unlocked the dark elf race. When i achieved the lvl cap at lvl 10 and was a 5cleric/5wiz i had a ton of fun of being a crowd control healer. The class was very effective, and worked wonders on raids. as the level cap increased to 12 Laquido gained 2 levels of wizard and started using firewall to great effect, while still being able to keep his party alive. At lvl 14 is when the ability to successfully land enchantment based spells became very noticeable. I was 7/7 and could effectively cast any spell in the game from a scroll, thanks again to the change of how scrolls were cast by caster lvls, But i had to take both of my enchantment focuses and heighten, and change them to maximize, empower just so i could find a group.

With the release of the new content i lvled up my cleric side to be a better healer, this is largely due to the fact that the SR's in the game are simply beyond this character. The max i can cap my spell pen is +16, which means i usually have to roll an 18+ to simply get a spell through the resistance, then they still get a chance to save.

I have said all that i have simply to paint a picture for the feat(s) that i would love to see in the game. If there was a feat or an ability that allowed multi-classed characters to use their combined caster levels for Spell pen and DC if the caster levels were within 2 levels of each other (one spell level) that would be huge in helping people like myself that would love to be very versatile in the game.

I am going to miss out on the highest lvl spells in the game, and am ok with that. But the fact that i can't land a heightened hypno, dance, or fear makes my arsenal of spells useless.

Even to see a feat that simply allowed heightened spells be cast at the characters max level would be a huge gain.

I would love to see some functionality for this character.

Thanks in advance for reading

~ Ebo

captain1z
02-27-2008, 08:02 PM
Thats pretty sad to hear.

If this were PNP you at 14th level would still encounter enemies ranging from 1/2 CR - 14 CR (more if the DM wants). In PNP such a build is very usefull and fun to play also.

The best you can do in DDO is stick to spells that dont have saves and scrolls of higher level (caster checks and UMD) that also dont have saves.

My rogue has no spell levels and uses ray of exhaustion scrolls to great effect on names and tougher mobs but web and other spells with saves are a waste because of the low caster levels.

Spell pen items and DC increasing feats would only help marginally ....... a 32 pt human would be slightly more useful with the right feats.

The effectiveness of such a build is limited without the roleplay aspect of PNP. After lots of trail and error it seems anything more than 2 level splash on a cleric, sorc or wiz will really hurt when it comes to finding a group later in the game.

Again............ stick to spells with no saves and you will do a bit better.

Boulderun
02-27-2008, 08:18 PM
The feat you're looking for is called Practiced Spellcaster in the real game. It would probably take a tremendous amount of work to implement in DDO.

By which I mean, of course, a tremendous amount of QA which, of course, will not happen, resulting, of course, in another horribly broken feature languishing for months.

Rragnaar
02-27-2008, 08:24 PM
/not signed

Why should a split class character have anything that a full class character has? They shouldn't.

If you want the abilities of a level 16 toon for both spell pen and DC's, the answer is simple. Don't multiclass.

NKspeed
02-27-2008, 08:59 PM
/not signed

Why should a split class character have anything that a full class character has? They shouldn't.

If you want the abilities of a level 16 toon for both spell pen and DC's, the answer is simple. Don't multiclass.

/signed

captain1z
02-27-2008, 09:11 PM
/not signed

Why should a split class character have anything that a full class character has? They shouldn't.

If you want the abilities of a level 16 toon for both spell pen and DC's, the answer is simple. Don't multiclass.

Its not such a bad idea really. Just imagine a 7cleric/7wizard at 14th level I see no problem with him having a 14th level application to his caster level checks for purposes of spell pen. He still only has 4th level spells and a DC of 21 - 24......28 at best with feats and items. 4th level spells at 14th is great if you are a paladin or ranger with other skills to fall back on. as a caster in ddo your options are few.

Pellegro
02-27-2008, 09:35 PM
I think its a pretty interestign idea, although I wouldn't think it should be full caster level combined.

Really .... at 8/8 he still can't cast anything too totally cool. At least it would be nice that the stuff he can cast can land.

He gives up the higher lvl/more effective spells for variety. Not sure why there should be any penalty beyond that.

I'm not sure that an 8/8 Sorc/Ftr should be able to combine levels tho. I feel OK about 2 different casters together but not sure about caster+non-caster.

GeneralDiomedes
02-27-2008, 09:38 PM
I have long wished *hint* *hint* for the Practised Spellcaster feat. My personal reason is that I want my 7/7 Wiz/fighter's buffs to last longer.

The10man
02-27-2008, 09:57 PM
/not signed

Why should a split class character have anything that a full class character has? They shouldn't.

If you want the abilities of a level 16 toon for both spell pen and DC's, the answer is simple. Don't multiclass.

/signed I worked hard to get my wizard to level 16 with the penalties of growing up in the neg XP era. Lower HP, lower SP than sorcs, If you implement this people would build fighter sorcs for max Hp and sp (tanking nukers?) those would be fun for a minute or two but soon it would be the only class in game that people would look for in an arcane. Reap the benefits of your mix, but accept the shortcomings too.

Lunewann
02-27-2008, 10:03 PM
Hey devs,

Let me start this post by saying that i understand that when you multiclass you are cutting down your overall effectiveness of each class. Also i would like to thank you for the implementation of the new feats that help out folks who chose to multi-class. The ability to change a saving throw from one stat to another is simply huge.

My suggestion or request goes to those of us who have done the unthinkable and created evenly leveled multi-classed casters. I began the journey of Laquido as soon as i unlocked the dark elf race. When i achieved the lvl cap at lvl 10 and was a 5cleric/5wiz i had a ton of fun of being a crowd control healer. The class was very effective, and worked wonders on raids. as the level cap increased to 12 Laquido gained 2 levels of wizard and started using firewall to great effect, while still being able to keep his party alive. At lvl 14 is when the ability to successfully land enchantment based spells became very noticeable. I was 7/7 and could effectively cast any spell in the game from a scroll, thanks again to the change of how scrolls were cast by caster lvls, But i had to take both of my enchantment focuses and heighten, and change them to maximize, empower just so i could find a group.

With the release of the new content i lvled up my cleric side to be a better healer, this is largely due to the fact that the SR's in the game are simply beyond this character. The max i can cap my spell pen is +16, which means i usually have to roll an 18+ to simply get a spell through the resistance, then they still get a chance to save.

I have said all that i have simply to paint a picture for the feat(s) that i would love to see in the game. If there was a feat or an ability that allowed multi-classed characters to use their combined caster levels for Spell pen and DC if the caster levels were within 2 levels of each other (one spell level) that would be huge in helping people like myself that would love to be very versatile in the game.

I am going to miss out on the highest lvl spells in the game, and am ok with that. But the fact that i can't land a heightened hypno, dance, or fear makes my arsenal of spells useless.

Even to see a feat that simply allowed heightened spells be cast at the characters max level would be a huge gain.

I would love to see some functionality for this character.

Thanks in advance for reading





~ Ebo


**PUTS HIS HAND UP** I feel a arcane trickster movement starting.

Amabel
02-27-2008, 10:04 PM
/not signed

Why should a split class character have anything that a full class character has? They shouldn't.

If you want the abilities of a level 16 toon for both spell pen and DC's, the answer is simple. Don't multiclass.

/signed

You benefit from multi-classing by getting abilities of more than one class. Why on Eberron should you have your cake and eat it too?

EpicEbo
02-27-2008, 10:49 PM
the benefit would not be to have my cake and eat it to, it is simply to help the spells that i can cast actually land. With this build i don't get finger of death, or dancing sphere. I would just simply like to land the spells i can cast. Also i did recommend that the feat only be applicable to builds that were both casters and were only 2 lvls apart. bard/cleric, wiz/cleric, sorc/bard etc.. This is the way that i believe it was originally implemented.

Deaths_ward
02-27-2008, 10:57 PM
Um......they did it for rangers so why can't they do it for casters. I think it would be an interesting diversion from all the just straight nuke/burn builds.

Prestige Class as an Enhancement.

Mystic Theurge I
AP Cost: 1
Prerequisites
Character Level 6
-Mental Toughness
-Improved Mental Toughness
One of
-Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
-Cleric Prayer of Life I
One of
-Wizard Lineage of Elements I
-Wizard Lineage of Energy I
-Wizard Lineage of Force I
(Here's where it gets complicated, because it will basically require that you take the cleric levels and the enhancement will supplement as the wizard levels,and the first level will grant some misc. bonus.)

Grants +3 bonus to concentration, heal, and repair checks.

Mystic Theurge II
AP Cost: 2
Prerequisites:
-Mystic Theurge I
-Wizard Level 4
Increases your effective Cleric level by 1. (Increasing sp, spell penetration checks, memorizable spells, and level of spells castable)

Mystic Theurge III
AP Cost: 2
Prerequisites:
-Mystic Theurge II
-Wizard Level 5
Increases your effective Cleric level by 1. (Increasing sp, spell penetration checks, memorizable spells, and level of spells castable)

and from there on it would follow out at each level doing the same thing, and would allow for the arcane clerics, and my favorite prestige class in the game. Pipe dreams I know.

llevenbaxx
02-28-2008, 07:13 AM
Thats a pretty neat starting layout Deaths.

I would really like to see some feats to help make some Mc combinations a little stronger. To the "cake and eat it too" crowd, most if not all of the advantage of MCing has been trumped with authority by the enhancements system. MCed characters should be nearly as strong overall as a pureclass character. The flexibility gained by MCing cant match the shear power the enhancement system offers. I think they were wise up to now by leaving out high level enhancements and keeping various low level chains, but with all the "Why stay pureclass" threads going around I dont know if they will have the fortitude to continue this. The desparity will be much greater when they do cave though.

I realize a few MC combos work out very well still, there are far more that dont. A little attention to some alternate ways of creating characters would be far from the worst thing in the world imho. I would love to see some MC pro feats.