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Emperor_Septim
02-26-2008, 02:13 PM
Hi all,


I'm very new to stormreach and currently having fun as I work my way to 400 favor. I've always gravitated towards being a combat oriented priest in a game, and DDO is no different. I originally wanted to be a WF cleric but I dont want to wait until I have 1750, so I figure I'd play a drow cleric and someday when I have 1750 I'll make a WF monk as a fun secondary.
I'm looking to make a well rounded battle priest kind of character that kicks butt with his weapon and his turning ability and uses his magic to heal, buff, summon allies, and cure diseases. Also this is further complicated by the fact that I HATE shields for some reason. I wish there was a special one handed weapon style feat sort of like what was done in BG2. As I obivously wont have the Dex for a TWF build I guess I'll be using a two hander. I was always partial to two handed morningstars/clubs over mauls but I'll take what I can get.
I'm not really a fan of multiclassing, but if you REALLY think its important to the build I soppose I'm willing but NO levels of paladin or any class that have alignment restriction, as I plan on being Chaotic Neutral.

Thanks in advance!

Arianrhod
02-26-2008, 02:36 PM
Actually, drow have a natural affinity with shortswords, and an inherent bonus to dex, so piercing-spec finesse builds work well with drow (with or without 2-weapon fighting). The problem with 2-handers would be that drow clerics have no particular advantages in strength (very important for offense), and the -2 con leaves them somewhat low on hit points to be wading into the thick of things with no shield.

Certainly try the 2-hander route if you've got your heart set on it, but be prepared to rethink things somewhere along the way if it proves less than satisfactory.

As always, good luck, and enjoy

Dworkin_of_Amber
02-26-2008, 02:57 PM
Actually, drow have a natural affinity with shortswords, and an inherent bonus to dex, so piercing-spec finesse builds work well with drow (with or without 2-weapon fighting). The problem with 2-handers would be that drow clerics have no particular advantages in strength (very important for offense), and the -2 con leaves them somewhat low on hit points to be wading into the thick of things with no shield.

Certainly try the 2-hander route if you've got your heart set on it, but be prepared to rethink things somewhere along the way if it proves less than satisfactory.

As always, good luck, and enjoy

While Drows can make very good Clerics, they have one major weakness when it comes to making a Battle-Cleric (or Warpriest), and that is the lower starting Constitution. Hit Points are FAR more important in DDO than in PnP... heck, even my Sorcerer has 16 Con starting! Additionally, while early on, a melee-cleric can be a potent weapon, later on (past say, Level 10/11) it gets very difficult for a Melee Cleric to do both the job of keeping the party alive and fighting. It certainly can be done, but it requires a great deal of skill. Additionally, while Drow do get the Shortsword proficiency, the damage from them are not great, and there are a number of prevalent mobs with DR vs. Piercing. Additionally, as a Cleric has few feats to begin with, the "melee" feats become more and more difficult to fit in.

One consideration would be to try an Offensive-Casting Cleric build instead of a melee Cleric. Clerics do have some excellant Offensive/CC Spells at all levels, and with a build something like 8/10/12/10/18/16 (really rough numbers, not sure it adds up to 28 or not), you can make a potent Offensive Casting Cleric who can still heal and buff well.


If you are really set on a Melee-Cleric, I would *STRONGLY* suggest going Dwarf or Human instead. The Dwarf's starting +2 CON is a BIG help, as well as their extra saves vs. spells. Humans gain a bonus feat and skill point which can also help. However, Dwarven Clerics do NOT get Dwarven Axe Proficiency without taking a level of Paladin/Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian.

I can tell you, as a player with multiple high-level characters, that at the higher levels, it is pretty much a full-time job keeping the party healed and buffed, and my (former) BattleCleric has morphed into an Offensive Casting Cleric, and I love him so much more now... nothing like turning on Maximize + Empower + Extend and throwing down a Blade Barrier that hits for 200-250 points per click... or a 250-point Cometfall!



But, if you want a Battle-Cleric like build, think about 16/10/12/10/16/12 for a Drow or 16/8/12/8/16/12 for a Dwarf or Human.
You would probably take: Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Empower Healing Spell, Improved Critical, Extra Turning, Extend Spell (add Weapon Focus or Weapon Proficiency for Human)

For an Offensive Casting Cleric it is all about Max Wisdom, good Con and a Little Cha (for DV's).
Drow: 10/10/12/10/18/14, Dwarf: 10/8/14/8/18/12, Human: 10/8/12/8/18/14.
Feats: Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Extend Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell (Add Extra Turning or Spell Penetration for Human)

NOTE: These are really rough numbers, and not fully fleshed-out, but these are 28-point builds for "basic" template builds.

Emperor_Septim
02-26-2008, 04:44 PM
hmmm,


An offensive caster sounds okay, are there special quarterstaffs I can use that give me a boost to spell points? If I'm going to be a caster cleric I'd much rather hold a staff then a shield and sword to feel more like a caster. Any suggestions on a caster build?


And if I want to be a drow battle cleric, could you please suggest a drow shortsword finesse build then?

Impaqt
02-26-2008, 04:51 PM
DOnt go FInesse. You lose have the benefit of Divine Power Spell... You can use Rapiers and Shortswords as a Drow with no Penalties.


15STR
10Dex
14CON
10INT
16WIS
10CHR

Pure Cleric

Level up Points in Wisdom. Eat a +1 Str Tome when ya find it or when you can afford to buy one. THey are coming down in price rapidly now that +2's are dropping.

For Feats

1 Extend
3 Mental Toughness
6Improved Mental Toughness
9 Quicken Spell
12 Maximize Spell
15 Fluff... Take Improved Crit If you melee a lot, Take a Spell FOcus if you want toshore up DC's take a Spell Penn if you want more, Take Empower Spell i fya want bigger Blade barriers.....

sigtrent
02-26-2008, 06:24 PM
DOnt go FInesse. You lose have the benefit of Divine Power Spell... You can use Rapiers and Shortswords as a Drow with no Penalties.


Eh... if I were playing a drow war priest I'd probably do finesse and Two weapon fighting and go for dealing Con damage and casting holds and so on. You could run diplomacy as a defense but its a low agro approach so the low con doesn't hurt you so badly. Kind of an assasin cleric sort of thing...

Perhaps
Str 8 Dex 17 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 16 Cha 14

it's a slow starter but ramps up pretty well and I think a stat damage approach is better for a casting cleric end game. You do have to watch yoruself though. Spells can take you out fast so you need to hang back at the start of fights. I don't see a str based drow being much different though. More damage but less acuracy and more work.

The dwarven battle cleric is the best. If you like two handed you can go for the battle axe and just take martial weapon proficiency or a fighter level (my recomendation). Easy character to start wtih and quite effective. Forget turning undead with the dwarf though.

Human is a good middle ground.

Impaqt
02-26-2008, 07:06 PM
Is weapon Finesse, Which will net you +1 to Hit, Really worth Giving up a Feat for?

Divine Power is worth a +6 STR Bonus.... You get it at L7.. Where melee still means something..... thats 4-6 Levels Earlier than a melee can wear a +6 STr Item.

Yes, You can put 6 More action points into Dex for another +1 to hit, but IMO, its not near worth it.

I start mos of my Clerics with a 13-4 STR.. with Divine Piower and racial Enhancemnts, I can melee Just fine when I need to... and have funwhen I want to... +1 or +2 more will make absolutely no difference and just hurt the character in other areas.

sigtrent
02-26-2008, 09:35 PM
I start mos of my Clerics with a 13-4 STR.. with Divine Piower and racial Enhancemnts, I can melee Just fine when I need to... and have funwhen I want to... +1 or +2 more will make absolutely no difference and just hurt the character in other areas.

This is what I did with my own drow cleric, but she's not a battle cleric per say... low con and mostly specced for offensive casting, but I do wade in wtih a greatsword at times and it works out decently.

The finesse thing is more than an extra to hit... its the abbility to go TWF and still maintain a high casting stat. TWF brings a lot of advantages for a stat damage based combat character (namely an off hand sneak attack weapon that greatly improves accuracy) but also extra attacks etc... You still benefit from divine power of course. And its mroe than +1 to hit from enhancements. Drow can start with higher dex for less build points than strength so its cheap and expandable.

If you want straight damage, don't go finesse though, it doesn't make sense without doing TWF most of the time.

Impaqt
02-26-2008, 09:44 PM
And its mroe than +1 to hit from enhancements. Drow can start with higher dex for less build points than strength so its cheap and expandable..


Its Exactly +1.... Once your drow you can take the enhancements whentehr your STR or Dex based.. It adds up the same.. you can get to +2 IF you spend 6 more action points on Elven Dex...

If you start witha 16 WIS and a 13 CON you can get to a 16 STR OR a 18 DEX as a Drow... thats a +1 Difference for the Cost of a feat.

Then ya cant carry your 6 sets of Full Plate ya loot casuse your encumbered all the time as well.

Many Mobs have DR and you need to be able to do damage in order for your Wounders to work.... an 8STR isnt going to help inthat department much either.

+6 damage is way more valuble than +2 to hit.(I can put those 6 action points into my damage modifier rather than my Dex ENH)

Emperor_Septim
02-26-2008, 11:17 PM
I really like your build idea Impaqt. But when you say drow can use shortswords with no penalty are you speaking of just using one or dual wielding them? A shortsword and a shield would look kind of odd, and as I said I'm not partial to shields. Can I get away with dual wielding without taking twf feats? I do plan on getting the chosen skills for the + to shortswords.


Can you suggest what skills and enhancements would be good for the build? Concentration for sure, and I'm not a fan of UMD but aside from that not sure what skillls to go for.


Stat boosting spells DO NOT stack with stat boosting items right?


Thanks again, you've been very helpful

Uska
02-27-2008, 12:34 AM
hmmm,


An offensive caster sounds okay, are there special quarterstaffs I can use that give me a boost to spell points? If I'm going to be a caster cleric I'd much rather hold a staff then a shield and sword to feel more like a caster. Any suggestions on a caster build?


And if I want to be a drow battle cleric, could you please suggest a drow shortsword finesse build then?

Yes there are weapons with power on them,wizardry as well I belive and as long you dont switch them out until you under the level of spell points they boost you by you wont lose any when you switch them out. I have a drow cleric I play her as more of a walking shrine then a battle cleric(18 dvs at 10th level) but she is very battle cast capable. Just make sure you have a decent con stat to go with you wisdom I didnt on my cleric as I knew I wanted high cha to go with my wisdom, I would say do you stats like this. not exact as I dont have access to a builder at work.

st 14
dx 10
cn 14
in 10
ws 16
ch 10

something like that for stats. take max, extend, heighten, empower, spell pen, for feats for sure. I think mental toughness to be less important at higher levels you want you damage spells to do a lot of damage and you none striaght damage spells to land.

Uska
02-27-2008, 12:39 AM
I really like your build idea Impaqt. But when you say drow can use shortswords with no penalty are you speaking of just using one or dual wielding them? A shortsword and a shield would look kind of odd, and as I said I'm not partial to shields. Can I get away with dual wielding without taking twf feats? I do plan on getting the chosen skills for the + to shortswords.


Can you suggest what skills and enhancements would be good for the build? Concentration for sure, and I'm not a fan of UMD but aside from that not sure what skillls to go for.


Stat boosting spells DO NOT stack with stat boosting items right?


Thanks again, you've been very helpful

Just one short sword or rapier with out the twf feats as without those you will take a fair penalty without them. yes on skills concentration is great. Umd the main use for a battlecleric like you talking about is you might find some nice equipment that you could use at a earlier level because its race restricted so min level will be lower or the item might be more availbe to you do the fact that some other people cant use it.

TechNoFear
02-27-2008, 01:10 AM
You have to balance cleric function and fighter ability. Put too much into the fighter abilities and you will not be a good cleric.
So the objective is to add functionality to the cleric (besides the heal / buff etc).

My Drow cleric is a repeater specialist, much better with the ranged attack progression introduced in Mod 6. With only rapid reload (works with repeaters now) and haste I can shoot 100 bolts in 60 seconds.

As the cleric I want to be at the back healing / protecting the casters / offensive casting. I do not want to be at the front getting hit and failing concentration checks. You don't have the AC or HP for that (without reducing your cleric ability).

When things slow down a bit I put away my 'sticks' (sup potency + grt spell penetration) and use an 'effect' repeater.

Cursespewing, wounding, para, banish and smiters all from a safe distance (behind the meat shields). Don't want to do too much damage as I can not handle the agro. The AH has plenty of low lvl 'effect' repeaters and +3 75% returning bolts are a house D favor reward.

This gives me a fun secondary function and great solo ability, without detracting from my clerical ability.

Cowdenicus
02-27-2008, 02:20 AM
melee clerics are all right, alot of people swear by them, but it has never yanked my crank.

Now don't get me wrong, my clerics can wade in with the melee (I have even done it against the end boss of the shroud which got me yelled at by my guildies lol) and be somewhat effective, but nothing beats a caster based cleric, and if you are going to go the caster based cleric route, nothing beats human.

Humans are the only race that can achieve a 36 Wis (assuming a +3 tome) at level 20 and they get a bonus feat and an extra skill point. Most importantly, they can also take an extra point of con from enhancements... and while dwarves can get a higher con, their wisdom sucks (and their looks also but lets not go there). Plus who wants to play an overweight halfling?

Uska
02-27-2008, 02:56 AM
melee clerics are all right, alot of people swear by them, but it has never yanked my crank.

Now don't get me wrong, my clerics can wade in with the melee (I have even done it against the end boss of the shroud which got me yelled at by my guildies lol) and be somewhat effective, but nothing beats a caster based cleric, and if you are going to go the caster based cleric route, nothing beats human.

Humans are the only race that can achieve a 36 Wis (assuming a +3 tome) at level 20 and they get a bonus feat and an extra skill point. Most importantly, they can also take an extra point of con from enhancements... and while dwarves can get a higher con, their wisdom sucks (and their looks also but lets not go there). _Plus who wants to play an overweight halfling?

I am sorry but I just love that line....:D:D

parvo
02-27-2008, 07:04 AM
Where's the rule that says you have to have 32 point builds to play non-drow? If you want to be pure Cleric and use a two-hander, consider going Warforged and become a follower of The Lord of Blades. I have fun with mine. Just make sure you have enough Charisma to have at least one turn because that is how you activate your proficiency with Greatsword.

parvo
02-27-2008, 07:08 AM
DOnt go FInesse. You lose have the benefit of Divine Power Spell... You can use Rapiers and Shortswords as a Drow with no Penalties.....

I have to agree here. If you stay Drow, there is nothing wrong with being strong and using a rapier.

Arianrhod
02-27-2008, 08:10 AM
If you really dislike shields, you're probably going to find yourself standing back and casting until you're sure someone else has the monster's attention (at which point you may be too busy healing to melee....). At any rate, for a caster cleric, there are many scepters and other one-handed weapons you can put in the offhand to boost spellcasting. Potency is a good all around choice, as is Devotion for a healer.

Emperor_Septim
02-27-2008, 11:43 AM
Okay use a shield or don't bother, I got it. I might be able to handle using a shield, I think my hatred of shields really stems from playing a tank in WOW and people yelling at my warrior everyime he wanted to DPS. I have this notion in my head that you cant do any damage if you are doing the sword and board method.
Assuming I can handle using a shield, do you think my drow battle cleric can be successful? I'd really prefer using a shortsword to a rapier.

I noticed in another battle cleric thread someone mentioned they were getting 1 level of fighter then getting cleric for the rest of the way. What is the point of getting just 1 level in fighter?


Is the heal skill any good? What exactly does it do, and how do you use it? As the only other cleric skill besides concentration I'm more inclined to go for it.


Edit: Your right Parvo, in that a 32 point build is hardly needed, its really just icing on the cake. I have mild OCD though and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing my character is lacking in something like that.

Arianrhod
02-27-2008, 12:09 PM
If you're going to be meleeing much, you'll probably end up taking enough damage to make the quicken spell feat a better choice than investing points in concentration, but the heal skill really isn't much use, unfortunately. I think a lot of clerics abandon their class skills altogether and put all their skill points into Balance (getting knocked down and being unable to get back up for a long time can be devastating). Use magic device is another possibility, but that's hard to take full advantage of without having it as a class skill (bard or rogue levels) or getting some rare gear.

As for what the heal skill does, it allows you to use healing kits to bring people who are incapacitated (but not dead) up to 1 hit point. Not especially valuable to a character who can use cure wands to accomplish the same thing, only better/faster/more reliably. It also increases the amount of hit points people get back from using rest shrines. What it doesn't do is ever get anyone above one hit point during combat.

sigtrent
02-27-2008, 02:46 PM
Exactly +1.... Once your drow you can take the enhancements whentehr your STR or Dex based.. It adds up the same.. you can get to +2 IF you spend 6 more action points on Elven Dex...[/QUOTE]

+2 is +2. 6AP is not a massive quantity and you get a benefit to reflex saves as well, not that its a big deal for a cleric but...



If you start witha 16 WIS and a 13 CON you can get to a 16 STR OR a 18 DEX as a Drow... thats a +1 Difference for the Cost of a feat.)

+2 with the AP and (which isn't avaialble for the str build. And isn't +1 what you get from weapon focus... a feat? +1 attack from a feat isn't bad, it's the standard, an in this case it can be +2.


Then ya cant carry your 6 sets of Full Plate ya loot casuse your encumbered all the time as well.

Can be an issue, yes. Of course a dex oriented cleric probably isn't wearing plate anyhow but I get your point. It's not like I'm advocating 8 str or anything.



Many Mobs have DR and you need to be able to do damage in order for your Wounders to work.... an 8STR isnt going to help inthat department much either..

Been there, not really an issue, but in truth puncturing is better than wounding for stat kill except at lower levels. There arn't many high DR mobs that take stat damage anyhow. Con damage has a great track record of proven utility.


+6 damage is way more valuble than +2 to hit.(I can put those 6 action points into my damage modifier rather than my Dex ENH)

+6 damage? Where is that coming from? Lets look at two build sets....

TWF con damage set
Str 12 Dex 18 Con 12 Wis 16 int 8 cha 10

Traditional Str set
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Wis 16 int 10 cha 10 (2 points left)

The strength build is down +1 attack (or +2 wtih the ap spent), up +2 damage, has a feat to spend and has 2 build points that can go to 2 cha or one con.

But the dex build gets to run TWF and the Traditional can not. TWF offers some very potent combat bonuses which I feel are going to be more powerfull than +2 damage such as extra attacks (each getting bonuses from divine favor, divine power etc...) and off hand weapons like seeker or backstab that increase damage or accuracy greatly.

The big down side is feat use. The TWF character uses up to 4 of their feats (9 levels worth) for combat but potentialy doubles the number of attacks they make at the same attack bonus (+2 from dex advantage cancels the -2 for TWF)

Now an all out battle cleric going THF and power attack can probably do better, but they have to cut into their stat ups in wisdom to do it as well as take feats.

Impaqt
02-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Exactly +1.... Once your drow you can take the enhancements whentehr your STR or Dex based.. It adds up the same.. you can get to +2 IF you spend 6 more action points on Elven Dex

+2 is +2. 6AP is not a massive quantity and you get a benefit to reflex saves as well, not that its a big deal for a cleric but...




+2 with the AP and (which isn't avaialble for the str build. And isn't +1 what you get from weapon focus... a feat? +1 attack from a feat isn't bad, it's the standard, an in this case it can be +2.



Can be an issue, yes. Of course a dex oriented cleric probably isn't wearing plate anyhow but I get your point. It's not like I'm advocating 8 str or anything.




Been there, not really an issue, but in truth puncturing is better than wounding for stat kill except at lower levels. There arn't many high DR mobs that take stat damage anyhow. Con damage has a great track record of proven utility.



+6 damage? Where is that coming from? Lets look at two build sets....

TWF con damage set
Str 12 Dex 18 Con 12 Wis 16 int 8 cha 10

Traditional Str set
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 12 Wis 16 int 10 cha 10 (2 points left)

The strength build is down +1 attack (or +2 wtih the ap spent), up +2 damage, has a feat to spend and has 2 build points that can go to 2 cha or one con.

But the dex build gets to run TWF and the Traditional can not. TWF offers some very potent combat bonuses which I feel are going to be more powerfull than +2 damage such as extra attacks (each getting bonuses from divine favor, divine power etc...) and off hand weapons like seeker or backstab that increase damage or accuracy greatly.

The big down side is feat use. The TWF character uses up to 4 of their feats (9 levels worth) for combat but potentialy doubles the number of attacks they make at the same attack bonus (+2 from dex advantage cancels the -2 for TWF)

Now an all out battle cleric going THF and power attack can probably do better, but they have to cut into their stat ups in wisdom to do it as well as take feats.

Your TWF Numbers simply dont add up.... Your SHORT 2 Build points... So STR is now 10 (vs 8 Before) 10STR-16 STR is +3 Damage right there, (Would be +4 with a 8Str Str) ANd the I used my 6 Action points for Damage ENH vs 6 for your 2 Pts of Dex for +1 to Hit making it +6 to Damage.You also seem to be forgetting that Even with Feats, TWF Reduces your attack by 2 as well...

Its simply Not practical or Responsible to advise someone to take a full line of TWF Feats on a Cleric.

Bottom Line TO take advantage of the full line of TWF your going to GIMP your cleric. One handed Str based can be done with Minimal effort and Minimal(If any) Feat and Enhancement Investment.

roadkill525
03-17-2008, 02:14 PM
alright got the same kinda thing going on here as the OP. I'm looking to make a drow cleric cause I don have 32 builds open yet.

while I wouldn't mind goign the twf route that people have said was good and others bad, I'd prefer more of a spellslinger/healer build. I'f found I'm not that big a fan of the melee system in this game, that or I'm not used to it yet. also I'd prefer not to multi with a pally but anything else is open.

any ideas on a drow healing/dammagespell cleric?

Cowdenicus
03-17-2008, 04:18 PM
alright got the same kinda thing going on here as the OP. I'm looking to make a drow cleric cause I don have 32 builds open yet.

while I wouldn't mind goign the twf route that people have said was good and others bad, I'd prefer more of a spellslinger/healer build. I'f found I'm not that big a fan of the melee system in this game, that or I'm not used to it yet. also I'd prefer not to multi with a pally but anything else is open.

any ideas on a drow healing/dammagespell cleric?

yeah, here is my suggestion.

28 point human > drow for a spell slinger build.

wis con and str are your main stats (although you only need a 12-14 str) max wisdom, and high con, cha is for gimps :D

Spock2
03-17-2008, 04:29 PM
Hi all,


I'm very new to stormreach and currently having fun as I work my way to 400 favor. I've always gravitated towards being a combat oriented priest in a game, and DDO is no different. I originally wanted to be a WF cleric but I dont want to wait until I have 1750, so I figure I'd play a drow cleric and someday when I have 1750 I'll make a WF monk as a fun secondary.

Thanks in advance!

I have cut out a lot of your post, but wanted to get in here my build, which is a battle cleric and drow. Equipment is everything for a battle cleric. If you go drow you will be disapointed in the higher levels as hitting elite level mobs become a 18-20 roll and a few crits and your dead. Go dwarf, I would have if I had really planned out her build. Low levels she was a blast to play. See my coments below as this is cut off my guilds fourms.

Name: Santena
Class: Battle Cleric
Race: Drow Elf
Level: 14 Cleric 2 Fighter

HP: 269 (285 Raged)
SP: 1182
AC: 35 cleric (tanking 41)
DVs: 10 level 1 DVs

Str: 26 (28 raged)
Dex: 12 (18 Tanking)
Con: 19 (21 Raged)
Intel: 12
Wis:28
Chr: 22

Feats:
Bastard Sword
Improved Crit Slashing
Skill focus - UMD
Empowered Healing
Mental Toughness
Toughness
Tower Shield
Weapon Focus


Main Equipment:
+5 Fire Guard Mithril Full plate of lesser fire resistance (Bound)
+5 Mithril Heavy Shield
+6 Chr cloak
+6 Wis helmet
POP 10
+6 Con Belt
Protection +5 Ring
Boots out of the Titan 30% striding, +10 Balance
Disease Immunity Ring of Improved False Life
+6 Str Bracers
Golden Cartouche

Main Weapons:
+1 Vorpal Scimatar of Pure Good (bound) 95% of the time
+1 Paralyzing Longsword of Deception
+2 Acid longsword of Disruption
+1 Banishing Dagger
+2 Scimitar of Smiting
+3 Paralyzing Scimitar of Slowburst

Fun Weapons:
Dreamsplitter! Great on held mobs

After running Santena for about a year now I find that she lacks in DPS and did lack heavly in the healing department, however I was able to adjust 1 of her feats and her enhancments, and now her heals are almost as good as a true cleric. She seems to be able to stay up longer in a fight than most clerics do to her higher HP and AC, but lacks the SP to hang in healing mode without using Scrolls and wands as long as a true cleric. Also, as the main tank she is a drain on the cleric as crits can really hurt her. Santena excells as the 2nd or 3rd tank in a party, or as a back up healer. While she can not out DPS any tank, her equipment makes up for her weakness.

She has be a blast to play, and I have to thank Acme and Ambr for imput on her. It was Acme's idea to add in the Fighter levels for HP and BABs which really helped her abilities to hit. Her UMD is now 25.5 self buffed without GH, which is getting in the range where she will be able to use some Wizard spells like teleport (and she does use that one)

roadkill525
03-18-2008, 07:31 AM
yeah, here is my suggestion.

28 point human > drow for a spell slinger build.

wis con and str are your main stats (although you only need a 12-14 str) max wisdom, and high con, cha is for gimps :D

aye human prolly better for a cleric, am sure the extra skills and feat helps, the enhancements is sumin I don't know jack about so it might be alot better there. but as long is its just alittle better I think I'd still want to go drow.

Cowdenicus
03-18-2008, 12:43 PM
aye human prolly better for a cleric, am sure the extra skills and feat helps, the enhancements is sumin I don't know jack about so it might be alot better there. but as long is its just alittle better I think I'd still want to go drow.

highest maximum wisdom is only attainable through humans atm......

FluffyCalico
03-24-2008, 10:39 PM
While Drows can make very good Clerics, they have one major weakness when it comes to making a Battle-Cleric (or Warpriest), and that is the lower starting Constitution. Hit Points are FAR more important in DDO than in PnP... heck, even my Sorcerer has 16 Con starting! Additionally, while early on, a melee-cleric can be a potent weapon, later on (past say, Level 10/11) it gets very difficult for a Melee Cleric to do both the job of keeping the party alive and fighting. It certainly can be done, but it requires a great deal of skill. Additionally, while Drow do get the Shortsword proficiency, the damage from them are not great, and there are a number of prevalent mobs with DR vs. Piercing. Additionally, as a Cleric has few feats to begin with, the "melee" feats become more and more difficult to fit in.

One consideration would be to try an Offensive-Casting Cleric build instead of a melee Cleric. Clerics do have some excellant Offensive/CC Spells at all levels, and with a build something like 8/10/12/10/18/16 (really rough numbers, not sure it adds up to 28 or not), you can make a potent Offensive Casting Cleric who can still heal and buff well.


If you are really set on a Melee-Cleric, I would *STRONGLY* suggest going Dwarf or Human instead. The Dwarf's starting +2 CON is a BIG help, as well as their extra saves vs. spells. Humans gain a bonus feat and skill point which can also help. However, Dwarven Clerics do NOT get Dwarven Axe Proficiency without taking a level of Paladin/Fighter/Ranger/Barbarian.

I can tell you, as a player with multiple high-level characters, that at the higher levels, it is pretty much a full-time job keeping the party healed and buffed, and my (former) BattleCleric has morphed into an Offensive Casting Cleric, and I love him so much more now... nothing like turning on Maximize + Empower + Extend and throwing down a Blade Barrier that hits for 200-250 points per click... or a 250-point Cometfall!



But, if you want a Battle-Cleric like build, think about 16/10/12/10/16/12 for a Drow or 16/8/12/8/16/12 for a Dwarf or Human.
You would probably take: Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Empower Healing Spell, Improved Critical, Extra Turning, Extend Spell (add Weapon Focus or Weapon Proficiency for Human)

For an Offensive Casting Cleric it is all about Max Wisdom, good Con and a Little Cha (for DV's).
Drow: 10/10/12/10/18/14, Dwarf: 10/8/14/8/18/12, Human: 10/8/12/8/18/14.
Feats: Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, Extend Spell, Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell (Add Extra Turning or Spell Penetration for Human)

NOTE: These are really rough numbers, and not fully fleshed-out, but these are 28-point builds for "basic" template builds.

I disagree completely about the CON thing you have it backwards it was much more important in Pnp. here with the 20 extra HP the max # on the hit die and +6 con items dropping like candy and +2-+3 tomes CON is not a big deal.

I mean If a barb has 500HP do you really think he spent 6 build points wisely to get that last 16hp IT gave him? I mean sorry but give me 484hp and 6 points to spend on another thing besides con any day.

If your cleric 16+6+2 or 24 con which is 260HP or they have 14+6+2=22 con which is 244HP for 6% diff

In pnp would be more like 16+4=20 con or 168HP vs 14+4=18 con for 152HP for a 10% diff

Con made a much lager % diffence in your HP in pnp than it does in DDO.

Eumeri
03-25-2008, 03:02 PM
Okay use a shield or don't bother, I got it. I might be able to handle using a shield, I think my hatred of shields really stems from playing a tank in WOW and people yelling at my warrior everyime he wanted to DPS. I have this notion in my head that you cant do any damage if you are doing the sword and board method.
Assuming I can handle using a shield, do you think my drow battle cleric can be successful? I'd really prefer using a shortsword to a rapier.

I noticed in another battle cleric thread someone mentioned they were getting 1 level of fighter then getting cleric for the rest of the way. What is the point of getting just 1 level in fighter?


Is the heal skill any good? What exactly does it do, and how do you use it? As the only other cleric skill besides concentration I'm more inclined to go for it.


Edit: Your right Parvo, in that a 32 point build is hardly needed, its really just icing on the cake. I have mild OCD though and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing my character is lacking in something like that.

I don't waste points on heal. It is, sadly, useless for a cleric. I would do Paladin rather than fighter but that is personal pref and it is mainly to get the martial weapon feat for free.

samho
03-25-2008, 05:36 PM
Main Equipment:
+5 Fire Guard Mithril Full plate of lesser fire resistance (Bound)
+5 Mithril Heavy Shield
+6 Chr cloak
+6 Wis helmet
POP 10
+6 Con Belt
Protection +5 Ring
Boots out of the Titan 30% striding, +10 Balance
Disease Immunity Ring of Improved False Life
+6 Str Bracers
Golden Cartouche



After running Santena for about a year now I find that she lacks in DPS and did lack heavly in the healing department, however I was able to adjust 1 of her feats and her enhancments, and now her heals are almost as good as a true cleric. She seems to be able to stay up longer in a fight than most clerics do to her higher HP and AC, but lacks the SP to hang in healing mode without using Scrolls and wands as long as a true cleric. Also, as the main tank she is a drain on the cleric as crits can really hurt her. Santena excells as the 2nd or 3rd tank in a party, or as a back up healer. While she can not out DPS any tank, her equipment makes up for her weakness.




Just a suggestion: grab a heavy fort item before you go dungeon. It's a waste to keep any melee alive if he goes without a single fortification, at high level. (Actually any high level character should have heavy fortification on not just melee IMO) It worth to sacrifice some HP or sp to get this kind of item on.

Spock2
03-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Just a suggestion: grab a heavy fort item before you go dungeon. It's a waste to keep any melee alive if he goes without a single fortification, at high level. (Actually any high level character should have heavy fortification on not just melee IMO) It worth to sacrifice some HP or sp to get this kind of item on.

I have been giving that a lot of thought, and have been looking for one for her. My mid level pallie/fighter build has med fort and I only had to give up 5 HP (Lesser false life). However on Santena I'm not sure what I can give up without hurting her to much.

samho
03-27-2008, 02:26 PM
I have been giving that a lot of thought, and have been looking for one for her. My mid level pallie/fighter build has med fort and I only had to give up 5 HP (Lesser false life). However on Santena I'm not sure what I can give up without hurting her to much.

Just my 2cp

You probably don't really need Golden Cartouche on the middle of battle, and You don't need Nightforge Necklace (Heavy Fort, necklace slot) in the beginning of quest. If you only has one item (Golden Cartouche) in the necklace slot, you may consider do a fast BAM ore run to earn your Heavy Fortification necklace.

Or, find a Heavy Fortification ring (not too easy but also not that difficult right now); since You can cast Shield of Faith yourself (which equals Protection+4), I would say sacrifice 1 AC and turn you from none fortification to Heavy Fortification would be a great choice.

And I do notice you don't even list your goggle slot up here. What's your goggles? If you don't have a very great goggle and you are ready to craft your Green Steel goggle, you may consider use the goggle slot to create wisdom+6/spell point/wiz VI item in a single slot, then you can free up your helm slot (Mino helms, give you Heavy Fort plus a free Toughness feat, which is, raw HP), also your trinket (for something else, like Silver Flame Fragment, or even, Bloodstone ?)

samho
03-27-2008, 02:51 PM
I disagree completely about the CON thing you have it backwards it was much more important in Pnp. here with the 20 extra HP the max # on the hit die and +6 con items dropping like candy and +2-+3 tomes CON is not a big deal.

I mean If a barb has 500HP do you really think he spent 6 build points wisely to get that last 16hp IT gave him? I mean sorry but give me 484hp and 6 points to spend on another thing besides con any day.

If your cleric 16+6+2 or 24 con which is 260HP or they have 14+6+2=22 con which is 244HP for 6% diff

In pnp would be more like 16+4=20 con or 168HP vs 14+4=18 con for 152HP for a 10% diff

Con made a much lager % diffence in your HP in pnp than it does in DDO.

I don't think Dworkin of Amber mention the CON is much more important in PnP than DDO, what he's talking about is the RAW HP advantage when we compare Dwarf and Elf/Drow.

Let me state it clear, the real different from Dwarf to Elf/Drow (assume we are speaking by the view of battle cleric) is the different of raw HP; While dwarf get +2 CON at the beginning, Elf is getting -2 CON, so if you spend 6 point on both character's creation, elf/drow will get a 12 con (vs dwarf get a 16 con). That would be a 4 CON different (= 32 HP in level 16, quite close to 2 Toughness feat); then take Dwarf CON enhancement into account, it's another 16 HP different. Now assume both build take Toughness feat, dwarf can took Dwarf Toughness Enhancement (which is 50 HP different). So if both character spend the same point on CON and has similar feat selection, the end result in level 16 can be 98HP. Of course it means the Dwarf build has to spend a lot AP to achieve it ( 2+4+1+2+3+4 = 16 ) , but there's no doubt that dwarf can make a much more HP build.

Warship
03-27-2008, 07:53 PM
I don't know my warpriest took 18 str 18 wis, which left 8 in Con and at level 15 has 220 hps

8 base
5 item
1 tome
10 hit points favor
30 great false life


So you can see if I found a 2 tome and a 6 item I would still have more hit points