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RandomToon
02-22-2008, 01:42 PM
I have seen quite a few people writing that AC is "useless". The basic gripe is that on elite (or even hard sometimes), some mobs can hit you reliably despite AC's in the 50+ range.

One thing that I have not seen is anyone asking for an enhancement to bost the bonus for Combat Expertise. It should work just like the boosts for Power Attack (i.e. each rank increases you AC by one more at the cost of one omre to hit).
I realize that it will not make a big impact, bit it may go a small way towards making AC useful again.

Another thing that would be nice is perhaps something - either a feat or an enhancement - that reduces attack bonus' of mobs. Similar to how Prayer works, but always active. If it was an enhancement, it could probably a Paladin thing. It is very close to adding AC like they already do, just works in the other direction. Personally, I would kind of like to see it for fighters. Make it a "prestige" route or something.

So if you have all these nifty enhancements, wouldn't it be nice if there was an enhancement that reduced the timer on intimidate? I could see it as a Fighter thing, starting at level 3 and getting another every third level. Each rank reduces intimidate cooldown by a second (would be the way to hold aggro if that enhancement for CE went in, because you wouldn't be able to hit nearly as well at that point)


I don't know if these are any good and I know they lack balance, just random ramblings...

Yaga_Nub
02-22-2008, 01:56 PM
I have seen quite a few people writing that AC is "useless". The basic gripe is that on elite (or even hard sometimes), some mobs can hit you reliably despite AC's in the 50+ range.

One thing that I have not seen is anyone asking for an enhancement to bost the bonus for Combat Expertise. It should work just like the boosts for Power Attack (i.e. each rank increases you AC by one more at the cost of one omre to hit).
I realize that it will not make a big impact, bit it may go a small way towards making AC useful again.

Another thing that would be nice is perhaps something - either a feat or an enhancement - that reduces attack bonus' of mobs. Similar to how Prayer works, but always active. If it was an enhancement, it could probably a Paladin thing. It is very close to adding AC like they already do, just works in the other direction. Personally, I would kind of like to see it for fighters. Make it a "prestige" route or something.

So if you have all these nifty enhancements, wouldn't it be nice if there was an enhancement that reduced the timer on intimidate? I could see it as a Fighter thing, starting at level 3 and getting another every third level. Each rank reduces intimidate cooldown by a second (would be the way to hold aggro if that enhancement for CE went in, because you wouldn't be able to hit nearly as well at that point)


I don't know if these are any good and I know they lack balance, just random ramblings...

It's not a bad idea. I've never understood why there needed to be enhancements for PA.

Mad_Bombardier
02-22-2008, 02:03 PM
We used to have Fighter's Improved CE (up to -9/+9?). (I assume) it was deemed overpowered for L12 content and taken away when the enhancement system changed.

RandomToon
02-22-2008, 02:08 PM
We used to have Fighter's Improved CE (up to -9/+9?). It was deemed overpowered for L12 content and taken away when the enhancement system changed.

Ah, did not know that. Thanks :)

DasLurch
02-22-2008, 02:38 PM
Yes, there was a change to the AC enhancements when the Academy Training went live, But with the introduction of Gianthold and the Vale, AC has been reduced to a very specific style of build. This could be helped in a small degree by re-implementing the old "Fighter's Dodge" ehnacements, as well as a limited version of the "Improved Combat Expertise" enhancements we used to see. At level 12 getting a +9 bonus to your AC is a bit much, but at level 16, it's only a tad high. If you did the proggressions for the 2 above stated enhancements at something like this, it might work out very well:

Fighter's(or not just fighter limited) Improved Combat Expertise
Lv I- cost 2 AP/ min lv 5, adds an additional +1 to the bonus already gained by this feat and reducing the BAB by -1 (+6 total AC/-6 to attacks) while active

Lv 2- 4 AP/ min lv 10, adds an additional +2 to the existing AC bonus granted from the CE feat and reduces attack bonuses by -2 (+7 AC total/-7 attack) while active

Lv 3- 6 AP/ min lv 15, adds an additional +3 to the AC bonus granted by the CE feat, and gives an additional -3 to all attacks (+8 total AC/-8 attack) while active

Lv 4 - 8 AP/ min lv 20, adds an additiuonal +4/-4... Total +9 AC/-9 attack) while active

Fighter's Dodge
Lv 1- 1 AP/ min level 3, makes the total dodge bonus granted by the Dodge feat +2

Lv 2- 2 AP/ min level 8, makes the total dodge bonus granted by the Dodge feat +3

Lv 3- 3 AP/ min level 13, makes the total dodge bonus granted by the Dodge feat +4

Lv 4- 4 AP/ min level 18, makes the total dodge bonus granted by the Dodge feat +5

I would love to see the Dodge enhancements on other classes, but I doubt that it could ever happen. It was originally a Fighter enhancement, and probably would stay that way. I DO think that if any other classes could have access to it, it ought to be Rogues and Rangers. They are the 2 classes that seem to be the most agile (with the dex prereq of 13 for Dodge), and it would seem to be the most likely to have it as an optional enhancement line. The CE line I can see being availible to anyone that wants it. That is why I allocated the AP costs the way I did.

Borror0
02-22-2008, 02:48 PM
We used to have Fighter's Improved CE (up to -9/+9?). (I assume) it was deemed overpowered for L12 content and taken away when the enhancement system changed.

Yes, up to -9/+9.

My guess on why they removed it was because it made it harder for other classes to get a significant AC number. Now, if that argument still hold water is another subject, since anything under 500ish is not worth much... and it's incredibly hard to reach 50ish... so only paladins, fighters and some rangers can do it effectively...

Mad_Bombardier
02-22-2008, 02:54 PM
My guess on why they removed it was because it made it harder for other classes to get a significant AC number. Now, if that argument still hold water is another subject, since anything under 500ish is not worth much... and it's incredibly hard to reach 50ish... so only paladins, fighters and some rangers can do it effectively...Right. It wasn't about Monsters not being able to hit high ACs (monsters can always get more attack bonus). It was about the achievable differences in ACs between the player classes.

Turial
02-22-2008, 03:06 PM
Right. It wasn't about Monsters not being able to hit high ACs (monsters can always get more attack bonus). It was about the achievable differences in ACs between the player classes.

Yeah and now instead of one class being able to avoid getting hit based on AC we all get to get crushed and rely on hp. Same stuff now as it was then just a different set of enhancements doing the work.

Borror0
02-22-2008, 03:14 PM
Yeah and now instead of one class being able to avoid getting hit based on AC we all get to get crushed and rely on hp. Same stuff now as it was then just a different set of enhancements doing the work.

More or so my point of view, 'cept I still believe high AC is a viable way... just not an easy one at all...