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bnrilfun
02-18-2008, 09:59 AM
Hey quick sanity check, but shouldnt Incendiary cloud get the bonuses from your fire stat items such as Potency, Superior FIre lore, etc? I have not seen it crit yet, and the best damage I have seen is roughly 70 in red. I have not put it down on a mob where it would be purple, but I would think this would come at least close to a firewall's ability to damage?

Also should there be a chance that a mob can catch on fire as it goes in and out of the could? Just wanting to do a sanity check on a spell I am starting to like.

Aspenor
02-18-2008, 10:01 AM
There aren't any potency VIII items in the game, thus you can't increase the damage with items yet.

Additionally, incendiary cloud in DDO appears to be meant as a low-damage high-duration AoE damage spell, with a high level.

ebt-dnd
02-18-2008, 10:15 AM
You mean you can actually see things in the cloud? Way too obscuring...

chemonz
02-18-2008, 10:27 AM
Fire lore items should affect incendiary cloud, shouldn't they?

MysticTheurge
02-18-2008, 11:03 AM
You mean you can actually see things in the cloud? Way too obscuring...

Yeah, while we're on the topic, Incendiary Cloud should get the same "Doesn't hinder allies' vision" treatment that all the other cloud spells got.

Mad_Bombardier
02-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Yeah, while we're on the topic, Incendiary Cloud should get the same "Doesn't hinder allies' vision" treatment that all the other cloud spells got./seconded. Yes, please.

Turial
02-18-2008, 11:44 AM
Acid fog needs that treatment as well.

The cloud deals 4d6 per tick while wall of fire deals 2d6 +1 per caster level per tick to creatures passing through it. Its that +1 per caster level that will keep damage from wall of fire higher. Currently its 2d6 +16 for a capped caster which maxed is 24 cloud and 30 wall of fire before anything. Add in enchancements and all the usual stuff and that gap grows. So its not likely you will see the same damage poential from the cloud.

Cruzer
02-18-2008, 11:49 AM
I've seen it crit, and thrown up a couple clouds that do 150's. But for the most part I usually see 70's, and I suppose thats to be expected since i'm only using a sup potency 6 item.

Talcyndl
02-18-2008, 11:54 AM
/seconded. Yes, please.

And add a third.

Please. Especially bad when you layer it on top of Acid Fog.

Lifespawn
02-18-2008, 01:41 PM
i don't know about you guys but when looking to exchange the spell on my sorc i was hesitant because it doesn't show what damage the cloud does in the description,maybe it's different when u take the spell?.

MysticTheurge
02-18-2008, 01:47 PM
i don't know about you guys but when looking to exchange the spell on my sorc i was hesitant because it doesn't show what damage the cloud does in the description,maybe it's different when u take the spell?.

Incendiary Cloud should be doing Fire damage.

Rekker
02-18-2008, 01:51 PM
Acid fog needs that treatment as well.

The cloud deals 4d6 per tick while wall of fire deals 2d6 +1 per caster level per tick to creatures passing through it. Its that +1 per caster level that will keep damage from wall of fire higher. Currently its 2d6 +16 for a capped caster which maxed is 24 cloud and 30 wall of fire before anything. Add in enchancements and all the usual stuff and that gap grows. So its not likely you will see the same damage poential from the cloud.

But Acid Fog slows them down, WoF doesn't get that ability.

bnrilfun
02-20-2008, 10:50 AM
I did see my incendiary cloud finally do purple damage in the Desert. I still have not seen any crits yet, which surprises me I would think that each time a mob gets hit there should be a chance for a crit, which means that as many times as I have used it I should have seen at least one.

I did confirm that Firewall damage does stack with the cloud.
Also it does not destroy webs which a firewall will do which makes sense since it is an airborne fire.
I have not seen the blind symbol come up on mobs that are inside it though it is supposed to affect site, maybe it just adds a -4 to hit?
I still have not seen mobs take regular fire damage for going in and out of it, when they catch fire, even though I see them in flames.
I do see on average it doing 50-70 points of damage but I would like to see some Potency VIII and Fire lore VIII items come out soon now. :)

Shade
02-20-2008, 10:55 AM
I've got incendiary cloud to crit. Was doing like 100-150 dmg i think... Nothing special.

Crappy worhtless spell until they add combustion 8 items in the game.


Acid fog doesn't need changes tho, its already a great spell.
-Does not obscure party vision
-Slows monsters
-Gives them a miss chance
-Deals decent damage
-Great duration - 2min 6 seconds at lvl16

bnrilfun
02-20-2008, 11:10 AM
Yes, I have seen more and more casters picking that spell up. It actually stacks great with incendiary cloud. :)

jjflanigan
02-20-2008, 11:42 AM
I did see my incendiary cloud finally do purple damage in the Desert. I still have not seen any crits yet, which surprises me I would think that each time a mob gets hit there should be a chance for a crit, which means that as many times as I have used it I should have seen at least one.

You only get the crit chance when you cast the spell, not on each damage pulse -- either the entire cloud is crit damage or none of it is.

Vienemen
02-20-2008, 11:49 AM
I had some observations on this spell in the handbook, link below.

Lifespawn
02-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Incendiary Cloud should be doing Fire damage.

lol i'm not daft mt maybe i should clarify

it doesn't show how Much damage it does

Vizzini
02-20-2008, 12:11 PM
Been debating about picking up this spell - annoying that you can't see in it however like solid fog.. If I were playing a melee type I think I'd be mildly annoyed.

DeadlyGazebo
02-20-2008, 02:14 PM
Yeah, while we're on the topic, Incendiary Cloud should get the same "Doesn't hinder allies' vision" treatment that all the other cloud spells got.

Ok, the screensplat has been removed for mod 7.0.

muffinlad
02-20-2008, 02:16 PM
Thanks Deadly.

muffinblind

Yaga_Nub
02-20-2008, 02:17 PM
Ok, the screensplat has been removed for mod 7.0.

THANK YOU DG!

Mad_Bombardier
02-20-2008, 02:29 PM
Ok, the screensplat has been removed for mod 7.0.Woot, thank you DG! :D Can you also make sure that no friendly spells in the future are implemented with screensplat? It seems silly that we fought to get it turned off for Glitterdust (and others?), and then you added it to Incendiary Cloud.

DeadlyGazebo
02-20-2008, 02:33 PM
i don't know about you guys but when looking to exchange the spell on my sorc i was hesitant because it doesn't show what damage the cloud does in the description,maybe it's different when u take the spell?.

4d6 fire damage every 2 seconds, reflex save for half. Hopefully the description will be updated for mod 7.

Also makes monsters partially blinded (they will intermittently wander aimlessly or stab at empty air); that part will be changed soon to give victims a miss chance instead.

Damage increase effects for fire spells should work, as should fire-crits. A spell crit will be an all-or-nothing; you get a single roll, and if you crit the entire cloud, it does bonus damage to everything in it.

MysticTheurge
02-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Ok, the screensplat has been removed for mod 7.0.

Thanks DG!

gpk
02-20-2008, 03:40 PM
Ok, the screensplat has been removed for mod 7.0.

Is there a specific reason this can't come before mod7?

ViVid7th
02-20-2008, 04:19 PM
Also makes monsters partially blinded (they will intermittently wander aimlessly or stab at empty air); that part will be changed soon to give victims a miss chance instead.

If you do plan on putting through with this change, then please think of comparing Incendiary Cloud to Wall of Fire. With IC missing any slowing or other side effects, it is highly unlikely that a mob will be in it for 2 or more seconds. Only way to help that is if the mob is trapped or tanked there, in which Wall of Fire is normally a better choice, ignoring gear, because Wall of Fire scales.

MysticTheurge
02-20-2008, 04:31 PM
If you do plan on putting through with this change, then please think of comparing Incendiary Cloud to Wall of Fire. With IC missing any slowing or other side effects, it is highly unlikely that a mob will be in it for 2 or more seconds. Only way to help that is if the mob is trapped or tanked there, in which Wall of Fire is normally a better choice, ignoring gear, because Wall of Fire scales.

This would be less true if Wall of Fire worked properly and required enemies to cross the plane of the wall in order to deal the maximum damage.

In that case just standing in the wall would do 2d4 damage and would thus be less than Incendiary Cloud.

(Of course, you still run into the whole Potency issue and what not. But it would still be a step in the right direction.)

Pellegro
02-20-2008, 04:32 PM
If you do plan on putting through with this change, then please think of comparing Incendiary Cloud to Wall of Fire. With IC missing any slowing or other side effects, it is highly unlikely that a mob will be in it for 2 or more seconds. Only way to help that is if the mob is trapped or tanked there, in which Wall of Fire is normally a better choice, ignoring gear, because Wall of Fire scales.

As you note, the mob may be aggro'd on your buddy, himself in the cloud as well (i.e. the mob is "tanked there"). The advantage here over WoF is that your buddy now enjoys the advantage of the mob having the miss chance. With WoF, you don't get that advantage.

Plus ... IC does 4d6 per tick. I thought WoF did only 2d4 per tick (if you're w/in 10 feet), or 1d4 if your 10-20 feet from epicenter, plus 2d6+x for passing through it, where x = caster level.

Doesn't that mean IC does more damage?

MysticTheurge
02-20-2008, 04:37 PM
Plus ... IC does 4d6 per tick. I thought WoF did only 2d4 per tick (if you're w/in 10 feet), or 1d4 if your 10-20 feet from epicenter, plus 2d6+x for passing through it, where x = caster level.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case and standing in the very center of a WoF gives you the 2d6+caster level damage, even if you're not crossing the wall.

(Oh, and, in D&D wall of fire only damages creatures on one side of the wall, rather than those on both.)

DeadlyGazebo
02-20-2008, 04:51 PM
Is there a specific reason this can't come before mod7?

Because 6.1 is in the final "don't make any changes unless the game is totally broken" stage of testing; we are not currently planning anything between 6.1 and 7.0 (well, if 6.1 breaks anything, there can be a hotfix, but we hope not to have to do that).

In order to make testing easier, we try to bundle changes into large modules rather than doing continual small updates -- that way if we need to make six changes that might affect this spell, we can go test it once rather than six times.

gpk
02-20-2008, 06:24 PM
Because 6.1 is in the final "don't make any changes unless the game is totally broken" stage of testing; we are not currently planning anything between 6.1 and 7.0 (well, if 6.1 breaks anything, there can be a hotfix, but we hope not to have to do that).

In order to make testing easier, we try to bundle changes into large modules rather than doing continual small updates -- that way if we need to make six changes that might affect this spell, we can go test it once rather than six times.

First off thanks the response, and please forgive me for the slight hajack below.

I can appreciate it's easier for testing purposes to lump everything into large mod updates, but is the design QA department really so strained that there can't be a 6.2 and possibly a 6.3?

The problem with these large mod updates is that thing that get pushed back can get pushed back in multiples of 3.X months; and the gameplay suffers as such. Sometimes the gameplay suffers quite a bit and I'm not sure this is often noticed in the forum chatter.

Take some spells for a variety of classes that could (and should) have been added been added in mod4 (or sooner), is there a a really technical underlying reason I'm not grapsing that prevented Spell X for Class Y to not be added in mod5 or 6, and must be delayed till mod7? Or was it simply a design decision.
Are some some spells,enhancements and feats really that difficult to squeeze out before mod7?

Is something as important as the BAB15+ attack chain that imho warrants a serious review really less important than anything monk related? If a modification is deemed necessary to such a crucial game element does it have to wait till mod7?

Bogenbroom
02-21-2008, 07:25 AM
Also makes monsters partially blinded (they will intermittently wander aimlessly or stab at empty air); that part will be changed soon to give victims a miss chance instead.

Ahhhhh! No! That is probably the coolest thing about the spell. Yeah, the damage is great and all, but it is really nice for effect to see the victims wandering aimlessly, even briefly. *Please* don't change that!

MysticTheurge
02-21-2008, 07:51 AM
Also makes monsters partially blinded (they will intermittently wander aimlessly or stab at empty air); that part will be changed soon to give victims a miss chance instead.

Out of curiosity, why don't all cloud spells make monsters partially blinded?

Enemy cloud spells almost completely blind us.

jkm
02-21-2008, 10:10 AM
Out of curiosity, why don't all cloud spells make monsters partially blinded?

Enemy cloud spells almost completely blind us.

especially if you make the save ;)

Jaywade
02-21-2008, 11:01 AM
Because 6.1 is in the final "don't make any changes unless the game is totally broken" stage of testing; we are not currently planning anything between 6.1 and 7.0 (well, if 6.1 breaks anything, there can be a hotfix, but we hope not to have to do that).

In order to make testing easier, we try to bundle changes into large modules rather than doing continual small updates -- that way if we need to make six changes that might affect this spell, we can go test it once rather than six times.

NICE RESPONSE.....
DG can I ask a question ???? when are you guys shooting for MOD 7 ???? just curious about the cycle of new content comming to us

Pellegro
02-21-2008, 11:12 AM
NICE RESPONSE.....
DG can I ask a question ???? when are you guys shooting for MOD 7 ???? just curious about the cycle of new content comming to us

New article came out yesterday includes short Q&A with Kate Paiz.

Mod 7 is slated for May.

There's a thread on it here somewhere. Search for my name, I posted in it.

Mindspat
02-21-2008, 11:39 AM
Yeah, while we're on the topic, Incendiary Cloud should get the same "Doesn't hinder allies' vision" treatment that all the other cloud spells got.

Little late on the reply - great fix!

Spell descriptions - all clikies and most spells are lacking effect descriptions. There's too many to count.

Josh
02-22-2008, 11:48 AM
Because 6.1 is in the final "don't make any changes unless the game is totally broken" stage of testing; we are not currently planning anything between 6.1 and 7.0 (well, if 6.1 breaks anything, there can be a hotfix, but we hope not to have to do that).

In order to make testing easier, we try to bundle changes into large modules rather than doing continual small updates -- that way if we need to make six changes that might affect this spell, we can go test it once rather than six times.

Unless it's to nerf something ingame. That gets immediate attention. Go figure.