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View Full Version : Dragonmark of Healing doesn't unlock Empower Healing feat! Confirmation requested



Mentalist
02-15-2008, 08:31 PM
I just recently began working on a new halfling sorcerer, and planned to take least dragonmark of healing at level 1, empower healing spells at lvl 3, lesser dragonmark of healing at lvl 6, and greater dragonmark of healing at lvl 9. I read that the empower healing feat does work with the dragonmarks so I wanted to try it out.

I just hit lvl 3 and have found out that taking the dragonmark of healing does not allow me to take empower healing as a sorcerer. The feat says that its prerequisite is the ability to cast healing spells, and the dragonmark specifically tells me that it gives me the ability to cast cure light wounds. It seems to me like I have fulfilled the prereq, so why can I not take the feat?

Additionally, I don't think that allowing this would be too powerful, because I am using FOUR feats to gain this healing ability, and my offensive spell-casting will suffer accordingly.

I would like to know if this is working as intended or if this is an issue that will be fixed. Any response (especially an official one) is appreciated.

Bloodyfury
02-15-2008, 08:44 PM
Yup, you won't have access to the Empower Healing feat even with the dragonmarks.

To have access to it, you need a lvl in a class that can heal (bard-cleric) or a few lvl in a class that could do it (4 lvls of pally - 4 lvls of ranger).

I have a lot of builds with these, so my advice would be this one... especially with a sorc, you won't have a LOT of Hps even with a high CON, so you should remain a pure sorc and forget the empower healing feat for this build. You'll be completely self-sufficient and you'll be able to heal yourself in one shot anyway. As you've only 2 feats remaining after the dragonmarks, I would take extend and maximize. Just my opinion tho, you might have a better idea :cool:

captain1z
02-15-2008, 08:57 PM
I see your line of thinking but look at it this way:

- your abitilty to cast spells via dragonmark is not permanent in the same way that 1 level of cleric is. You can at any time, provided you have all the proper tools get rid of your dragon mark and would then have a feat that you do not qualify for.


- Combat expertise has a prereq of 14(?) INT. If you have a 12 INT, put on a Clever Hat +2, drink a fox pot +4 and take a +1 enhancement from your class...... you still cant take the feat. Because none of those things are permanent and none are part of your base character.


- with a dragonmark you cant "cast" spells anymore than a fighter with a 5/rest haste clicky can.......... though the wording may lead you to believe otherwise. Casting via an item or feat is very different from casting as a "class ability" ...... which is how they probably should have worded it to avoid confusion.


My sorc took 1 level of cleric for this and other reasons. Just take the 1 level of cleric and not only will u get wand access but you will get DV's and empower healing if you so desire.

Mentalist
02-15-2008, 09:13 PM
I suppose my healing would be strong enough without empower since devotion items seem to work with the dragonmarks. I just thought it would be fun to bring a lot of healing as well as dps to a group. At worst I would take one level of bard at lvl 6 and use a respec to get the lesser dragonmark and empower healing.

Do you know if taking a level of Bard would give you more spell points than a level of sorcerer since you get a charisma bonus to SP for a whole new class? One level of bard could also get me the +10% enhancement to healing spells that should work with the dragonmarks, the bard's 20 spell point enhancement, 2 reflex and 2 will, and a good increase to a skill such as UMD (although with a level of bard I could use cure wands with no check anyway). This doesn't seem like THAT bad of a trade-off as long as I got a good amount of SP for the level.

You are right about our low hitpoints though, my heal spell would heal for much more than my max hp even with a good false life item (20 base +72 (9HD*(4 base*4con bonus)) + 20 false life = 112 hp at level 9 when I get heal. Heal would do 90*1.6 even without a devotion item which is way more). At least the weaker heals would be more relevant at higher levels.

Edit: Special thanks to the above poster for reminding me about DV's, looks like cleric could a better option than bard.

Wizzly_Bear
02-15-2008, 10:01 PM
I just recently began working on a new halfling sorcerer, and planned to take least dragonmark of healing at level 1, empower healing spells at lvl 3, lesser dragonmark of healing at lvl 6, and greater dragonmark of healing at lvl 9. I read that the empower healing feat does work with the dragonmarks so I wanted to try it out.

I just hit lvl 3 and have found out that taking the dragonmark of healing does not allow me to take empower healing as a sorcerer. The feat says that its prerequisite is the ability to cast healing spells, and the dragonmark specifically tells me that it gives me the ability to cast cure light wounds. It seems to me like I have fulfilled the prereq, so why can I not take the feat?

Additionally, I don't think that allowing this would be too powerful, because I am using FOUR feats to gain this healing ability, and my offensive spell-casting will suffer accordingly.


I would like to know if this is working as intended or if this is an issue that will be fixed. Any response (especially an official one) is appreciated.

why not take empower or maximize instead? work on the dragonmark and your sorc spells. empower healing would be a waste.

edit: oh, btw, healing dragonmarks are also pretty much a waste on a sorc. sorcs can umd heal scrolls and csw wands. just an fyi.

captain1z
02-15-2008, 10:03 PM
You cant DV yourself obviously...... but with high charisma you will have a lot of them at your disposal.


As a side note... in the players handbook it says sorcs can cast any spell... even healing spells if they are taught how to do so.

In my campaign I let sorcs cast cure spellsif they wanna fill a spell slot with 1.

checking the srd to see what it says. eh ...... it doesnt say anything about it but the PHB did (at least I interpretted it that way) No harm in keeping it that way as it makes the sorcs different than the wizzies in my games.

Not that anyone makes any of the casting classes anyway (all rangers, fighters and rogues.... mostly elveswith a human now and then)

Wildseed
02-16-2008, 01:09 AM
why not take empower or maximize instead? work on the dragonmark and your sorc spells. empower healing would be a waste.

edit: oh, btw, healing dragonmarks are also pretty much a waste on a sorc. sorcs can umd heal scrolls and csw wands. just an fyi.

Well, maximize and empower do not work on the Heal spell, only empower heal does. So, if she/he wants to enhance the "heal" spell, she/he hast to take empower heal. But yes sorcs can umd Heal scrolls. If you decide to take a lvl of bard I would suggest you build another character because bards get more skill points to begin with than sorcs.

captain1z
02-16-2008, 01:34 AM
Well, maximize and empower do not work on the Heal spell, only empower heal does. So, if she/he wants to enhance the "heal" spell, she/he hast to take empower heal. But yes sorcs can umd Heal scrolls. If you decide to take a lvl of bard I would suggest you build another character because bards get more skill points to begin with than sorcs.

really?... doesnt work on heals?
Its always worked on cure spells .... because they can be used offensively..... dont see why heals would be any different.

My sorc max empowers cure light wounds.... with enhancements and items I can get a 50 hp cure light wounds out of the deal

Only useful in emergencies...... cost a lot of SP but I have so much SP I can play back up healer for a while in a pinch..... nice to have the option.

Pellegro
02-16-2008, 09:27 AM
I wish this were fixed, and that if you have the DM of healing that the Empower Healing feat would be selectable.

I'm currently using a 1 bard/ xwizard halfling with the mark, so I was able to get it. But I've been considering a Halfling Fighter and would like the ability to pick this up.

Makes sense too, I mean ... whats the reason for limiting any feats anyhow? (There may be a good one; its a sincere question.)

Uska
02-16-2008, 01:46 PM
because dragonmarks arent real spells

Uska
02-16-2008, 01:52 PM
I wish this were fixed, and that if you have the DM of healing that the Empower Healing feat would be selectable.

I'm currently using a 1 bard/ xwizard halfling with the mark, so I was able to get it. But I've been considering a Halfling Fighter and would like the ability to pick this up.

Makes sense too, I mean ... whats the reason for limiting any feats anyhow? (There may be a good one; its a sincere question.)

Cant fix what isnt broken dragonmarks arent really spells so they arent and should be used as a base for getting meta magics. As someone else said if you respec out of having the dragonmark feat you have the empower feat which you no longer qualify for and which is useless to you so you would have to pay twice for your respec once for the empower as you cant get rid of a feat which is the requirement for another one.

Spectralist
02-16-2008, 02:43 PM
really?... doesnt work on heals?
Its always worked on cure spells .... because they can be used offensively..... dont see why heals would be any different.


Offensively doesn't matter. Empower and Maximize only work on spells with variable effect. Heal always does 10xcaster level. Cure X wounds rolls dice. Therefore Empower and Maximize work with Cure X Wounds but not heal.

Heal hits for a lot anyway though. Empower Healing might be a bit of a waste for just one spell when maximize doubles the effectiveness of both cure light and cure serious and works with half the sorcerer's spells too boot. My ranger took maximize to go with his dragonmarks and his cure lights hit for almost 100 :D and they only have a 1 second cooldown!

QuantumFX
02-16-2008, 02:46 PM
because dragonmarks arent real spells

They're spell like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities).

Mentalist
02-18-2008, 11:18 AM
O wow I didn't realize that maximize/empower would work with the cure light/moderate dragonmarks that will be good enough. I don't need to take empower healing JUST for heal, and maximize is better for the weaker dragonmarks anyway. Thanks for the info.

I realize that sorcerers can UMD heal scrolls and cure wands at high levels and with good gear and I might respec later but the heal marks will make leveling more fun and cheaper. I also hate having to switch to a cure wand it is much slower than the super fast casting dragonmark heals that don't require switching the weapon slot.

Edit: Argh I just realized why I wanted empower healing instead of maximize spell for my healing. You can always have empower healing active for emergency heals and not waste spell points on your arcane spells. Looks like I am back to having a level of cleric.