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ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 08:26 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Oreg
02-15-2008, 08:39 AM
A lot of good points there mate. Especially the ransack / ingredients supply issues.

Well done.

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 08:49 AM
Thank you Oreg, I actualy feared the response (not yours, just the general one I would get) would be more along the lines of: Get another guy ready, I have several, but to get stuff for one guy, I shouldnt have to run 4. Thank you again, hopefully some feedback will be generated. :)

Turial
02-15-2008, 08:51 AM
Nice way to put it.

It seems that hard is the best difficulty to get good loot out on these days. You still get the boost to the chest loot and have the ability to pull +2 tomes. Also its not as much of a strain on clerical funds If Players work together.

jjflanigan
02-15-2008, 08:52 AM
A lot of good points, but the only thing I'll disagree with is your comments about crafting.

They've said, many times, that this is not the "crafting system" -- this is a new system for raid loot that happens to be similar to how they are going to do crafting. This is the new, big raid zone for top level players, I don't see how it's a bad thing that new player / low level players can't do anything with it.

Once they add in the actual crafting, it will be different, but until then saying the raid loot creation is crafting is a misnomer and gives people the wrong idea.

esoitl
02-15-2008, 08:55 AM
another person asking for handouts??

be real.... some of the new items are overpowered a bit as is(even some of the raid items and even end rewards are ridiculous in nature) what will it do to the game to have masses of uber gear in the game??


the reason that crafting can only be obtained by high level characters is simple, nobody low level should even be able t ohold such a weapon as it would just upset the complete balance of the game



imagine a 5th level character being able to make their own uber loot.......
"what's your 6th lvl brab weilding?"
"oh, a +5 icy burst holy burst great axe with some uber clicky".....

there is enough loot getting passed down to lower characters that there shouldn't be crafting in the lowers


IMO the new death penalty is much too lenient and the whole /death taxi is tiring already
i am fully planning to use the rituals to bind my gear that i have worked hard to get so as it won't get perm damage

in some cases i may even try to further enhance it although that seems to be oming moreso in the next MOD which i am again looking forward to


the trail and error i can agree with is limited because of the drop rate but think of what happens if they increase it..... uber loot on every character that is able to weild it
not good for the game, not good for the community



stop *****ing about having to work for something good


i agree about the ladders and bugs of that nature but be realistic about the rest of your complaints

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 08:59 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Laith
02-15-2008, 09:05 AM
10. Back to crafting: Only the higher level characters get to experience, and provide feedback on this. There is nothing for a lower level, or newer person to the game to experience concerning the Crafting.remember that this is a prototype for the crafting system.
personally, i feel Turbine erred when they said they released the new crafting system in mod6, because they really didn't: they included a new raid loot system that, of course, is tied to the new high level raid.

as far as ransacking arguments go, i have to say people are already farming the early parts quite often enough. sure, it's annoying to not get any loot when ransacked, but that's the entire point: to annoy you into going somewhere else. That's why we HAVE the ransack system.
The ransacking itself is a problem. A problem introduced by having valuable rewards BEFORE quest completion... quite unique as far as raids go.

I'm not really sure how Turbine could eliminate the issue, but sooner or later, the majority of players will be able to beat shroud4-5, and when that happens i'm willing to bet that the raid will be completed more often... leading to less ransacking.

Personally, i when i heard "multiple part raid" i figured we'd be able to skip to the raid section we wanted to complete. That would be a nice solution to the ransack issue, but it'd probably just create a new set of problems.

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 09:07 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 09:09 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Laith
02-15-2008, 09:18 AM
That is kinda my point though, if you beat the raid, you must wait three days before you can obtain more ingredients to be able to do the tier 3 upgrade, and then three days more for even more. At that rate, how is it going to be any fun to experiment with a rare comodity (Ingredients) when you could take them, either use what is on the net already, or sell the ingredients for insane amounts of money.sure, it's a bummer now, but think of the long run.

1200 recipies is a very finite number. it's big, but we really don't know how they counted.
look at how many we've already found! Experimentation with these items will be done in a matter of months.

What happens then if there's no raid timer, or no limit on how fast you can farm materials?
There's no doubt about it: these items are raid caliber loot.

If ransack is removed from the shroud, then you'd always have people farming parts 1-4 day after day.
With ransack around, at least people will end up completing the raid right before they ransack... maybe earlier, because a higher percentage of groups will be looking for completion.

esoitl
02-15-2008, 09:19 AM
i understandwhat it takes to ransak chests, i also understand the fact that the weapons that are being created are uber and will soon turn some diffiult encounters to cake walks

upping the drops of Khyber shards and ingredients are going to make these much too common and therefore make everything just plum too easy




i hate that everyday monsters have 200 HP and beyond but when we have charaters raging with 42 STR there has to be a counter effect which is upping the monsters stats


personally, i have run the shroud twice to part 3 and the first about 6 times
normally it's a party wipe at 2 with certain names spawning so i have only opened about 10 chests max in the shroud
i have run loops of the Vale 6 or 7 times but like you said, all i have ever gotten is lucusts and lillies. i have done 11 vale quests to date and have even given away some ingredients


with that little done i am sitting 2 ingredients from a green steel weapon with at least 1 upgrade


i'm confused at how people can ransack that much and still not have the necesary materials but i have put a moderate ammount of time in and am very close to starting some uber loot



as of now Reaver is a bit of a joke, mind you it's a grind and tough to get ready for but once there it's a half hour at most to get what used to be the best loot pulls in the game



i'd rather the future of the game not be so simple and especially with creating your own and better loot

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 09:24 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

jjflanigan
02-15-2008, 09:26 AM
It comes down to luck, basically. I ransacked the phase 1 chests and have run them 3 more times since they reset and *still* do not have the ingredients I need to do a single upgrade. The only reason I ever got a shard of power was because someone in group was feeling generous and chest-transfered me one that they received.

apious1
02-15-2008, 11:19 AM
Very good points from the OP. I really wish the Devs were more active in the forums and replied to threads like this consistently.

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Razvan
02-15-2008, 12:12 PM
10. Back to crafting: Only the higher level characters get to experience, and provide feedback on this. There is nothing for a lower level, or newer person to the game to experience concerning the Crafting.


Why can't people understand that this is not "craft your items" kind of crafting, but "craft your level 16 uber raid loot".
Can new people with low level characters run the Reaver?...No....so why do you expect those people and those low level characters to be able to craft RAID LOOT?!!

You know what bugs me, that most people don't understand what this "crafting" system is at the moment: it's beta testing! Yup, they get to test the upcoming crafting system while providing a challenge for bored people. When widespread crafting goes live, guess what: there will be altars outside the Shroud, and ingredients will drop in all chests. Then everyone can craft. Until then let the high level characters test it and sit back and relax: everyone's turn will come!

Borrigain
02-15-2008, 12:37 PM
Though I don't feel that they need to up the drop rates, and I must admit for the first few days it was fun trying to collect things, but now it's just like.....whatever.

or in internet lingo.....meh.

Problem for me is, and where I am in agreement with you OP, is there are no hints anywhere as to what makes what.

So, after musing over threads and spreadsheets and realizing that I just timed out in game and am now disconnected due to inactivity, I realized.....screw this.

It ain't no fun "wondering" for half an hour what I have and what it could make. So, for now, to heck with it. I'd rather be exploring and killing things with my limited time.

Eventually, when it's all said and done, and complete recipies are posted, I'll start playing with it again. But for now, this raid crafting just got chucked in the round file.

I think what I'm trying to say is, yes, it's an interesting concept, and yes, I'll want to play with it someday, but....between work, wife, and other RL priorities, I just don't have hours upon endless hours to try to make it interesting and fun for me. I must thank all the individuals who are trying to post recipies for all their hard work, but when I HAVE to peruse the forums to try to create something, it kind of takes some "fun" away from the game.

Now, that said, IF there were "parchments" that could be found with "hints" on effects and materials combinations, or NPC's that offer advice (like they said would happen, but I have yet to find one with any info), I wouldn't feel like I'm wasting my time shooting in the dark.

Throw us a bone here dev's, I'm not asking for complete answers, just hints/clues found around Stormreach, so as to make the process more of a mystery, a who-dun-it, that will keep me immersed "in game" and not out searching the internet. And I'm sure some of the role-play types would love it. Make us feel like we're part of a story, trying to solve a puzzle, cuz when I have to leave the game to do research, heck, I might as well just go to work and get paid.

After all, when it becomes "work", it isn't a "game" anymore.

Still.....love mod 6 :D

Borr.

Gratch
02-15-2008, 12:51 PM
Mod 6 has nice new content (after the insane Abbott fiasco)... and the diablo box is a good first shot towards crafting. It even came out on time. <claps>

It does feel sort of half finished. Only one non-green-steel ritual. No L15/16 enhancements. No STWF STHF feats. Somewhat weak L8 spells. Treasure tables missing spell level 8 affecting equipment. Just hoping a lot of this clears up with the 6.1 update.... aka... the rest of Mod 6. Given Mod 7 is listed as having more low level quests to go with the Monks... having Mod 6.1 bring another few high level quests would be nice to fill things out some more. I'm gonna be sad if 6.1 is just one big new thing... but doesn't fill out all the holes that came with Mod 6.

Staedtler
02-15-2008, 01:56 PM
A lot of people here are misinterpreting the criticism of the limited crafting mechanic.

The OP isn't asking that crafting be available to all characters right now so they can all be kitted out with amazing doo dads. The OP is pointing out that, if they really want the most feedback possible, it doesn't make sense to limit crafting to something that only a segment of the players can participate in.

ENGRAV0
02-15-2008, 01:59 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

ENGRAV0
02-19-2008, 09:40 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Nevthial
02-19-2008, 10:44 PM
Wow, our tiny group is really just getting started on it. Love it so far. :)

parvo
02-19-2008, 10:52 PM
Don't get me wrong, but with the ingredients being the way they are, dropping and all, the Shroud is beginning to get boring. Beat part one, nothing to it anymore. Beat part II, getting to be easy, almost repetative, tactics and all, the challenge is only there if certain bosses are there. Beat part III, eh, nothing to say much about this one. Part IV, well, this one is a pain, tried so many things, nothing seems to work more than once. None the less, to get to the parts where you want to try new tactics and teamwork, you gotta beat on portals for ever. Yes, I have beat the raid, but now that getting to certain points is common, and ransack is almost as common, on several characters, and still only had enough ingredients to make 2 (almost 3) Items, it's starting to get boring.

Not a complaint thread as much as just asking for a little feedback, please.

I have seen several posts concerning players concerns, some changes that were made, and still nothing in the form of the Dev's providing any feedback. As a matter of fact, when it got to the point where feedback was almost the only thing left to be put out, the topics got changed to the next mod, which wont be here for a while. It worked, true enough. The heat has pretty much been put out, for a little bit. however, personnaly, I am REALLY looking forward to Monks, and new content, and perhaps some more random and ever changing quests. BUT, that does NOT mean that I still would not like to see SOMETHING posted about MOD 6, as MOD6 is what I have right now.

The way I see it, this crafting is fun, and a lot of fun to do and try out. Ingredients are RARE, at least in quantities enough to actualy WANT to trial and err with them. Not too many people are interested in creating an abomination, because they usualy seem to reach ransack on the chests right around, or just before they have gotten enough stuff to make what is known.

Sure, some are still experimenting, and Thank You to those that are. To those that are NOT, I do NOT blame you. I had to ransack 2 characters, go back in on both of them, trade, and beg for a couple ingredients to be able to reach the second upgrade on one item for each character.

Some things that, from my in game conversations with various players, would kind of make it a little more worth the work:

1. (Only on the chests inside the Shroud) When a chest is ransacked, or Stripped, it still produces ingredients, everytime. Take the loot out of the chests until they are no longer ransacked, but leave ingredients.

2. (In the Encounter Area: The Vale) Perhaps rather than only being able to collect Ingredients from the Rare Chests, which again seem to produce only 2 ingredients 99.9% of the time (Lily Petals, and Locust Husks) perhaps adding the other ingredients also to these chests, just a little more often. Ransacked on 3 diferent quests, almost ransacked on the Third chest from Dust, even almost ransacked on the optional chest in Coalesence. So far, only one chest in each quest even seems to yield any ingredients.

3. If the "INTENT" of the new trial crafting system was to allow us to experiment and provide feedback on what is enjoyed, and what is sort of "DESPISED", then perhaps some feedback on what input is given would be nice. Seems the general feeling in game, from many people, both that I know, and those that I only meet in PUG's is that the forums are useless. Feedback is rare, and a diversion seems to get tossed at us when someone doesn't like the facts that are being placed on the tables. Less distractions, more feedback, please.

4. Spells: Level 8 spells should be useful, opwerful to a degree. I fully understand why the HP of game monsters need to be buffed up, but when I use several of the level 8 spells in low level quests, they should nearly destroy creatures of level 2, if not obliterate them. There is little effect on them.

5. Khyber Dragonshards: You are trying to get money and items out of circulation, there is a huge stockpile, and I do agree with the incentives of binding on a lot of these items, but binding should do just a little more than make the item take no more permanent damage. With the way items hardness and durability has been dropped in this MOD, items that are brand new are being broken and permanently damaged within only a couple runs of the quests, and not even just the new quests damage these items quickly. Without Shard Fragments to bind them, the only thing I see are people taking these items off and using the older ones because the ingredients to bind them are more than rare, they are uncommonly rare. Spell casters can't get too many fragments to play around with the new Trap the Soul spell, which might be intended, or not, but give us a spell, then make us grind insanely, beg, borrow and steal, make deals with the Devil's themselves, almost to the point of wanting to go to Georgia and challenge them, but instead of a fiddle of gold, tell the Devil himself all we want is shards in a chest. Take that Vorpal, I just want shards. Have you seen what a SINGLE shard is going for on the AH? No, I doubt anyone would buy ONE Fragment, but the mere fact that some are being sold INDIVIDUALY is abhorent. A patch comes out, and no increase?

6. Ladder bugs, not only still here, even more annoying to a degree in some places. No more need be said on the ladders.

7. Loot Scaling: Might just be the dozens of groups I have been in, but the general attitude seems to be, there just isn't a reason (Other than favor) to run the new quests on elite. I have seen, by far, better loot pulled from a chest on normal than on elite. And I have run several of the quests several times, many times, on elite. I too have not really seen better loot on elite, this seems to be slightly odd.

8. New quests are more dependant on good connections, and servers seem to have CONSTANT major lag spikes, and I mean MAJOR. I am on Argo, and when your screen, and everyone elses in your party freezes up for anywhere to 5 to 15 seconds 5 times in almost any given quest, can't someone provide some feedback other than: AT&T is working on the issue? I personaly have experienced these lag spikes, and deaths from them, in lower level quests as well. These lag spikes seem to occur each and every time someone picks up Dragon Shard Fragments, hopefully that is just fiction, but I DO notice it when someone in the party picks some up.

9. The NEW MOD is released, but the old one is still flawed in several major ways. Yes, there are things that make that quest doable, by doing certain things within the quest itself that do NOT require the use of teamwork, goggles are bypassable by using certain means, asteroids are also, by using certain tactics, ice, eh, ok, that one is pretty much straight forward, but again, more quests that are twitch gamer dependant. RAIDS should be hard, but on normal, they should be obtainable by people who put the effort. I haven't beaten the Abbot yet, but I am fully aware of how to do it. I just don't see the sense in cheating to obtain victory.

10. Back to crafting: Only the higher level characters get to experience, and provide feedback on this. There is nothing for a lower level, or newer person to the game to experience concerning the Crafting. Sure, if they manage to find enough Fragements they can bind something, then have it forever, ok. BUT, it seems that something more than a Hardning ritual should have been put in for lower levels. Scatter various levels of ingredients throughout Stormreach, all different types, with various returns on the work. A random chance that if a Fire Elemental is killed, you collect something from its husk, once enough is collected, (Just for EXAMPLE) you are able to take those and an item to the stone, and combine them in the right amounts, and say get minor fire guard added to something that has already been bound and attuned, oh, btw, ANYTHING. To counter the, this is too powerful, it could as well ad a level or two to the minimum level of the item, would be fair I believe.

11. Out of curiousity, perhaps look at the design and implementation of adding crafting, "Over 1200 Recipees to begin with" and no where in the face of Stormreach has anyone found any notes, ANYWHERE (Other than on the net, from other players) to gather hints to combinations? My examople is this: I am running through a quest, there is a collectable pile, I search said collectible pile, and find an old piece of parchment. On said parchment, there is something along the lines of: (Using a small picture that could perhaps be displayed in the examine window) A piece of old parchment with say 3 of the four ingredients to produce "X" result. Sure, you now have 3, still need to figure out the fourth, BUT, you already know the outcome, and somewhere else you might find something else. Heck, put random collectables throughout the game with tablets that have an language long forgotten, for the most part, and some random NPC can decypher them once you reach a certain favor, or complete a mini quest. Not one for level 16's mind you, something for the lower level characters to enjoy other than just removing permanent damage. I kinda think it would make the game more adventurous to have a +3 Mithril Breatplate the I have bound and attuned, and once gathered the proper ingredients, put Frost Gaurd on, or fire gaurd, or perhaps something from the dust mephits, that obscursion they do. Not too mention, you could allow a total of three upgrades, as with the green steel items, so further upgrades could yield something useless, or something more useful yet. Say the first time it went something like this:

+3 Mithril Breastplate (Bound and Attuned:)
First ritual (Collect 20 of "X" ("X" being what ever you wanted to call the item collected, be it something like soul stone or whatever) and conduct the "Y" ritual at the Stone of Change. Reult = Minor Fire Gaurd- When struck in Melee combat, your Armor now does 1D4 Fire damage to the attacker.
Second Upgrade (Collect 20 of "X" (This time, "X" could be a higher level or perhaps the same creature, just from a different difficulty level) and conduct the "Y" ritual at the stone of change. Result = Minor Fire Gaurd has been upgraded to lesser (Think I might have this one backwards, LoL) fire gaurd doing 1D8 fire damage. I believe the idea is conveyed. But Ice, Concealment, all these things could be done, and most of the attributes are already programmed into the game, is this even feasable?

[ADDED to original post]12. The side quests in Meridia, there is one pertaining to Ornothon Armor, that seems unable to be obtained, Is this a bug, if so, I can report it if it hasn't already been. I have completed the RAID, and still am unable to obtain that quest.

Hopefully someone, somewhere that really cares will provide some useful feedback, I really don't want this thread to become a flame causer. I just would like to see something other than tossing a bone about FUTURE MODs and something more in tune with CURRENT MODs. I don't care what the Rogues are getting tomorrow, what can they get today?

Permadeath.

BlueLightBandit
02-21-2008, 08:02 AM
A lot of people here are misinterpreting the criticism of the limited crafting mechanic.

The OP isn't asking that crafting be available to all characters right now so they can all be kitted out with amazing doo dads. The OP is pointing out that, if they really want the most feedback possible, it doesn't make sense to limit crafting to something that only a segment of the players can participate in.

Well it doesn't make sense to showcase the PROTOTYPE to 100% of the population either. You show it to a few, see how they like it, and then make changes based on their comments.

As far as the OP... he just seems to be out to find something wrong. Sure, there are a few things that are annoying, like the ladder bugs. But everything else he's talking about has to do with crafting or being ransacked on the new content. Ransack is what it is, and it's always been that way. New content is what it is, and with the exception of a few changes for updates and whatnot... will always be that way.

Other than that the OP needs to either tough it out to get the reward for doing the work, or just not partake in the new content. I'm thinking that quite a lot of people enjoy the new areas and new things to do, and while the OP is free to have his own opinions he just needs to realize that his opinion may be in the minority.

ENGRAV0
02-21-2008, 08:28 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

akla_thornfist
02-21-2008, 08:45 AM
i got to step away from the shroud for awile been running it bout everyday and i only have 1 tier one item made and even that one would not be ready if it wasnt for my guild mates, im ransacked on my cleric and fighter and ive only seen 1 power shard drop in the last 3 raids thats 36 people 1 shard drop rate seems a little low to me. i also think that they lowered the ransack to 6-7 runs didnt it used to be about 8-10, looking forward to the birthday events maybe it will keep me away from the shroud for awile.

BlueLightBandit
02-21-2008, 11:47 AM
Is the OP's post here to bring about problems he has, or express his opinions. If it is to express opinions, then all opinions should be welcome. Including those that disagree. If the post is to bring light to issues he has with the mechanics of the game, then there are a few comments I'd like to make.

Ransack: It is what it is. If you think the timer has been reduced from whatever it is on other chests, do your homework and find out what it is on other chests, then do your homework and find out what it is on the chests in the shroud. Otherwise, it's an unsubstantiated claim.

Drop Rate: It is what it is. If you think it's too low, say so without using the phrase "I want" or "I can't". Otherwise it's interpreted as what you can or cannot do, and has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game.

How they released information regarding crafting: They didn't. They expected us to figure it out as a community. I like that.

Connection issues: Yes, they are issues. Burying them in amongst unsubstantiated claims and personal opinions stated as facts only lessens the devs ability to discern the valid points from the angry ones.

Free Discussion: So now we're only allowed to post our opinions if it is in unison with the OP's? I disagree. Just remember... HOW you say something is as important as WHAT you say. My personal opinion is that while I see the same things the OP does, I just don't think they're as big of problems as the OP says they are.

maddmatt70
02-21-2008, 12:41 PM
I dont like the feel of the new content as it is even more of a grind then anything that we have had in ddo before. That maybe is just percepetion on my part, but nevertheless that is the way I feel more and more. The new raid is a bueatiful creation and all, but it seems like that is what everyone runs all the time and the new raid ingredients/raid reward I am beginning to dislike. The idea of crafting an item to fit a specific character is nice, but there is something I dislike about the execution - well it is just so mmo. I mean why can't they tell us what all the small, medium, and larges do before we do it and why do they have crafting altars in all the quests and why do we have to do parts 1-3 just to get to 4, and why is there a completion timer if we complete the raid, and why does it seem like the drop rate is so poor for larges, and why do we need 12 ingredients at each phase to upgrade, and why do we need to complete all 5 prequesite quest to craft a new item. It is just a colassal time sink with no end in sight..

Boulderun
02-21-2008, 01:30 PM
The new raid is an excellent quest in all phases, with just a few design... quirks related to the actual crafting mid-mission. It would be a great addition to the raid lineup you run every few days to get something neat at the end (or more likely, getting screwed - but that's another thread...)

Having to ransack it on half a dozen characters to farm the crafting ingredients, though, is awful. No wonder people are getting sick of it - they don't have time to do ANYthing else in the game if they want to make a tier 3 item (or even tier 1 in some cases, due to the normal shards of power).

Turial
02-21-2008, 02:01 PM
Having to ransack it on half a dozen characters to farm the crafting ingredients, though, is awful. No wonder people are getting sick of it - they don't have time to do ANYthing else in the game if they want to make a tier 3 item (or even tier 1 in some cases, due to the normal shards of power).

Yeah a guild mate that I run with a lot has all the items to take an green steel item all the way to tier three...except he doesnt have that first shard.

ENGRAV0
02-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

maddmatt70
02-21-2008, 03:14 PM
The new raid is an excellent quest in all phases, with just a few design... quirks related to the actual crafting mid-mission. It would be a great addition to the raid lineup you run every few days to get something neat at the end (or more likely, getting screwed - but that's another thread...)

Having to ransack it on half a dozen characters to farm the crafting ingredients, though, is awful. No wonder people are getting sick of it - they don't have time to do ANYthing else in the game if they want to make a tier 3 item (or even tier 1 in some cases, due to the normal shards of power).

Valok, I have been trying to convince some of the guys to just run it for completions 8+ times a week (I have 4 characters currently ready for the raid) instead of the shroud 1-4 normal runs, but I have made little headway as alot of the guys are just not quite at the same point I am. Oh well..

Boulderun
02-21-2008, 03:41 PM
I usually go on a completion run after a character has ransacked 1-3 or 1-4. There just isn't any good reason to put yourself on timer until you have all the components you need. There's the mythical 20 completion reward, sure - but who knows if that will be worth it (in the others it typically isn't) or even if it works correctly (QA? What QA?)

In this stage of recipe discovery it's doubly unwise to lock yourself out of component farming because of the strong chance of making a piece of junk after all that trouble.

So farming the ingredient chests makes perfect sense - I just don't like having to do it because it quickly drains the quest of enjoyment.

GlassCannon
02-21-2008, 03:46 PM
True, good loot is nice, but it's not worth devoting several weeks to a single piece.

I'm also somewhat weary of the length of the newer quests, with Running with the Devils being an exception in that it is detestable for its saturation of enemy NPCs that deal direct nonresistable damage, and are invulnerable to 80% of the secondary damage in the game. I also very much dislike Bearded Devils. I used to think that Rats were bad... well... ok, they still are.


I've lost the love I once had... most everyone is running Shroud this or Shroud that, need healers etc. Very few are actually doing quests anymore... they are all grinding. I personally detest a grind.

I do enjoy The Shroud maybe once every week or so, but every single day... every... day....

maddmatt70
02-21-2008, 03:56 PM
I usually go on a completion run after a character has ransacked 1-3 or 1-4. There just isn't any good reason to put yourself on timer until you have all the components you need. There's the mythical 20 completion reward, sure - but who knows if that will be worth it (in the others it typically isn't) or even if it works correctly (QA? What QA?)

In this stage of recipe discovery it's doubly unwise to lock yourself out of component farming because of the strong chance of making a piece of junk after all that trouble.

So farming the ingredient chests makes perfect sense - I just don't like having to do it because it quickly drains the quest of enjoyment.

It starts making less and less sense running shroud 1-4 if you enjoy it less and less. Like I said alot of the other guys are not at the same point I am. If I just run completion runs 8+ times a week I don't get as burned out on the quest and I get 2 shots at large ingredients instead of just one (the phase 5 chest) in one run and in addition keep heading toward my 20 completions whatever that may be..

Grimmlock
02-21-2008, 04:21 PM
It's just an endless grind overall. from a Raid point of view. Which has its pro's and con's

Dragon - grind the 4 pre's to get to 5,6 everytime

Titan - none to speak of run the 3 pre's and your flagged

Queen - grind the 3 pre's, collect the 3 items / rinse and repeat

Reaver - grind the 3 pre's (there are others that relics drop in) - grinding for the relics (20 each) then run the pre quest to get blooded by the 3 dragons. then your flagged. (if you want dragon scale armor you need to grind for 25 scales...yeah thats fun)

Abbott - grind the 3 pre's (there are others to complete your frame) - grind for the correct pieces of frame. turn in flagged (if you want special loot - start grinding for taps,shield pieces and tome's)

And then there is the new raid with the same old grinding out for items to acquire special loot (except with this you do not know what works with what. It is interesting but we should have more than the 1 hint they gave us in the mailbox letter...bottom of it if you still have it and did not delete it.

Remember its just to keep people busy (16hr a day people) so the will not complain about we need more new content

maddmatt70
02-21-2008, 04:41 PM
It's just an endless grind overall. from a Raid point of view. Which has its pro's and con's

Dragon - grind the 4 pre's to get to 5,6 everytime

Titan - none to speak of run the 3 pre's and your flagged

Queen - grind the 3 pre's, collect the 3 items / rinse and repeat

Reaver - grind the 3 pre's (there are others that relics drop in) - grinding for the relics (20 each) then run the pre quest to get blooded by the 3 dragons. then your flagged. (if you want dragon scale armor you need to grind for 25 scales...yeah thats fun)

Abbott - grind the 3 pre's (there are others to complete your frame) - grind for the correct pieces of frame. turn in flagged (if you want special loot - start grinding for taps,shield pieces and tome's)

And then there is the new raid with the same old grinding out for items to acquire special loot (except with this you do not know what works with what. It is interesting but we should have more than the 1 hint they gave us in the mailbox letter...bottom of it if you still have it and did not delete it.

Remember its just to keep people busy (16hr a day people) so the will not complain about we need more new content

The differences are there is a timer in those other raids and there is an end in sight in terms of loot with the other raids; i.e. I want to get loot x and loot y on this certain character. For this raid there is no end in sight as you could get swapable items and swapable weapons and you can run it 24/7 or at least shroud 1-4 24/7. The op actually asks for chests that can not be sacked - does he even understand the implications of what he is saying. He wants to run this an infinite amount of times i.e. 24/7 - oh dear...

ENGRAV0
02-21-2008, 04:47 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

maddmatt70
02-21-2008, 04:49 PM
Hehe, actualy, what I was "asking" to be considered, was a method that would allow INGREDIENTS to keep falling when the chest "LOOT" is ransacked. I don't care about the "LOOT" iteself, but in order to experiment, as the Devs, or whomever, has decided it would be fun to watch us squirm making insanely stupid items, then tease us with more, these things are the easy things, and there are far superior items available, is why I thought a discussion on making the "Ingredients" not ransack or Strip.

Take the loot completely out for all I care. After all, this RAID is about "Make your own RAID loot", isn't it?

I misspoke as I meant ingredients. You want to be able to farm ingredients 24/7... I don't know if your intentions can be sugarcoated or not..

Hendrik
02-21-2008, 04:53 PM
If these items are so 'insanely stupid' why spend time making them?

:confused:

ENGRAV0
02-21-2008, 05:06 PM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.

Hendrik
02-22-2008, 08:51 AM
Your first thought to 'what else is there to do' is to 'find another game'??

:confused:

Rest reads like a rant on Raid Loot.

:(

More to this game then Raids...

Aspenor
02-22-2008, 08:53 AM
More to this game then Raids...

There are quests other than the Shroud?

What?

:confused:

Hendrik
02-22-2008, 09:01 AM
There are quests other than the Shroud?

What?

:confused:

LOL.

Morning Asp!

Yea, I just ran LoTD3 with the Guild last night, wow! What a blast!

Rather funny to see our Bard impaled a few times in the traps! Our saying for the night ended up being, "HUG THE WALLS! THE DEVS ARE EVIL!"

Aspenor
02-22-2008, 09:05 AM
LOL.

Morning Asp!

Yea, I just ran LoTD3 with the Guild last night, wow! What a blast!

Rather funny to see our Bard impaled a few times in the traps! Our saying for the night ended up being, "HUG THE WALLS! THE DEVS ARE EVIL!"

I will admit, most of my time in-game has been shroud farming recently. Although my luck is messed up, it's taken me forever to loot enough ingredients for crafting, but I have shards of power falling out of my pockets. 3 regular, 2 greater, and 2 supreme. 4 damn medium horns.

Still love the DQ raid and titan.

ENGRAV0
02-22-2008, 09:06 AM
Lost cause, sorry! Can't delete the post, will just edit every box I made here, and hopefully something someone else posts will better convey my thoughts. For those that had posted, thank you for your time. For any that felt I was "Crying", perhaps being "Observant from my experiences" is a better description.