PDA

View Full Version : Barb Armor, need advice



Illuminati
02-14-2008, 07:11 AM
Tried searching for it but I'm not quite sure what people wear now in the end game...

AC is not really a consideration right??

Even in best circumstances

10 Base
13 Armor (+5 Mith)
3 Dex
5 Protection
3 Bark
----
34 (30 raged)

Since it is so horrid do people wear robes?
Marilith Chain I guess if you could get it, but up until...

Thanks in advance!

Yaga_Nub
02-14-2008, 07:22 AM
Fearsome robes seem to be the choice I'm seeing but I don't think it's very becoming of them to do so. Although I really don't want to see a dorf running around in nothing but a loin cloth. :)

Draclaud
02-14-2008, 07:32 AM
I use mainly-
Acid Guard
Fearsome
and the Marilith Chain

Thant's about it.

Illuminati
02-14-2008, 07:37 AM
I use mainly-
Acid Guard
Fearsome
and the Marilith Chain

Thant's about it.

Fearsome seems like a pain but makes sense. I like the guards since something is gonna smack you anyway, might as well do more dps.

My thoughts so far are robes.

Acid Guard of Greater Ele Resist *Main
Deathblock of Greater Ele Resist *Hot Swap to if beholders
Fearsome of Greater Ele Resist *Hot Swap to if multi-mobs

I have a cloak of each greater resist, a ring of greater fire so at all times I could have 3x resists.

twix
02-14-2008, 07:39 AM
I wear a +5 mithril chain of lesser fire gaurd .Fearsome is just annoying to me.I hate chasing ****.

Illuminati
02-14-2008, 07:58 AM
Anyone tried intimidate on a feared mob to see if it just freezes?

Rekker
02-14-2008, 08:02 AM
I pulled a Deathblock Robe of Greater Lightning Resist last night...ML 16 so I don't think they are very common.

Taerdra
02-14-2008, 08:11 AM
If robes, I think DB of Greater x Resist or x Guard of Greater x Resist is one of the better choices. I don't like Fearsome on a barb.

If armor, I still find Mithril Chain or Full Plate is best... If you throw in hard to get stuff, Black Dragonscale or Marilith Chain is probably best. Marilith's +6 Seeker is really sweet and eliminates need for a Bloodstone.

Kromize
02-14-2008, 08:16 AM
Tried searching for it but I'm not quite sure what people wear now in the end game...

AC is not really a consideration right??

Even in best circumstances

10 Base
13 Armor (+5 Mith)
3 Dex
5 Protection
3 Bark
----
34 (30 raged)

Since it is so horrid do people wear robes?
Marilith Chain I guess if you could get it, but up until...

Thanks in advance!
Use Guards, since your gonna be gettin hit all the time... And db is nice too.

Draclaud
02-14-2008, 08:23 AM
The fearsome is when I don't have much confidence in the cleric. It helps mitigate how much damage I'm taking. Usually it's the Marilith chain or the Acid Guard though

Illuminati
02-14-2008, 08:27 AM
Taint of Evil on the chain, ugh

Basically, in a perfect world?

Armor: Robe <Effect 1> of <Effect 2>
Trinket: Bloodstone
Helm: Heavy Fort/Tough
Boots: Madstone
Belt: +6 Con
Bracers: Greensteel +8 Str
Googles: +2 Wis, +13 Spot (forget name)
Cloak: <Greater Elemental Resist>
Ring1: +4/5 Resist
Ring2: Greater Fire Resist
Gloves: Bramble Casters

Rekker
02-14-2008, 08:32 AM
Bracers: Greensteel +8 Str

Is there a recipe for that yet ???

/drool

Cruzer
02-14-2008, 08:35 AM
I use a +3 Ice Guard MFP. Mainly because I like the graphic, and I think human males look dumb in dresses :)

Otherwise, deathblock or X Guard of Greater X Resist is probably best.

Illuminati
02-14-2008, 08:43 AM
I use a +3 Ice Guard MFP. Mainly because I like the graphic, and I think human males look dumb in dresses :)

Otherwise, deathblock or X Guard of Greater X Resist is probably best.

Just tried some on, man they are horrid.

I do have 2x Fireshield (5x clicks) so I could keep myself permflamed I guess =)

Draclaud
02-14-2008, 08:43 AM
Taint of Evil on the chain, ugh

Basically, in a perfect world?

Armor: Robe <Effect 1> of <Effect 2>
Trinket: Bloodstone
Helm: Heavy Fort/Tough
Boots: Madstone
Belt: +6 Con
Bracers: Greensteel +8 Str
Googles: +2 Wis, +13 Spot (forget name)
Cloak: <Greater Elemental Resist>
Ring1: +4/5 Resist
Ring2: Greater Fire Resist
Gloves: Bramble Casters

Armor: Mithral FP Fearsom/Acid Guard/Marilith Chain ( I like the look of wearing armor. A dwarf in a dress is kinda scarey to me:p)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Helm: Minos Legends Helm
Boots: Madstone
Belt: +6 Con
Bracers: +6 Str
Googles: +2 Wis, +13 Spot Intricate Field Ops
Cloak: +4 Resistance
Ring1: Greater FL
Ring2: FF/Elemental Resistance Rings or Reaver Ring
Gloves: Bramble Casters
Necklace: Jorgundals Collar

Cold_Stele
02-14-2008, 08:45 AM
Don't forget necklace too - buddy of mine swears by the following combo -

Emerald Claw Talisman - Necklace, Fearsome, +11 Diplomacy, +11 Intimidate, Symbol of Fear 3/day (How about that for a little defense whilst boostng your Intimidate)

Jorgundal's would be cool but it doesn't stack with Haste spell.

Black Dragonscale Armor - +5 Scale Armor (6 base armor), Greater Acid Resistance, Heal 1/rest

Mad_Bombardier
02-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Is there a recipe for that yet ???Nope. From currently posted recipes, accessories give + to skills. Weapons give + to stats.

Cruzer
02-14-2008, 02:35 PM
Just tried some on, man they are horrid.

I do have 2x Fireshield (5x clicks) so I could keep myself permflamed I guess =)

Hee Hee. That just makes me think of all sorts of off color jokes about barbs in dresses and flaming.

Ciaran
02-14-2008, 02:47 PM
Anyone tried intimidate on a feared mob to see if it just freezes?

Yes, and they don't freeze, they keep moving around. That's been my experience from trying it several times.

I have noticed that sometimes feared mobs will go a certain distance and then remain still for a bit, usually long enough to beat them down, but it's had nothing to do with intimidate since I've seen them do it without being intimidated.

Beherit_Baphomar
02-14-2008, 03:47 PM
Feasome of heavy fort is top notch.

Or anything fearsome.

People who say "I dont like chasing ****" obviously have never tried fearsome for more than one encounter.
Most feared mobs wont run that far, or run at all. Most feared mobs stand still and do nothing.
And when they save on fear they have a penalty to saves/to-hit.

Fearsome, without a doubt, is the way to go.

I say try it for one week then come tell us what you think. A whole week.

Taerdra
02-14-2008, 03:53 PM
Feasome of heavy fort is top notch.

Or anything fearsome.

People who say "I dont like chasing ****" obviously have never tried fearsome for more than one encounter.
Most feared mobs wont run that far, or run at all. Most feared mobs stand still and do nothing.
And when they save on fear they have a penalty to saves/to-hit.

Fearsome, without a doubt, is the way to go.

I say try it for one week then come tell us what you think. A whole week.

In any other case than Barb, I would probably agree... It just doesn't work due to the speed that you can kill mobs with.

Shade
02-14-2008, 04:36 PM
I do have 2x Fireshield (5x clicks) so I could keep myself permflamed I guess =)

Yea, if you never raged.. But then you probably dont have much rage anyways...

Shade
02-14-2008, 04:42 PM
Armor: Mithral FP Fearsom/Acid Guard/Marilith Chain ( I like the look of wearing armor. A dwarf in a dress is kinda scarey to me:p)
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Helm: Minos Legends Helm
Boots: Madstone
Belt: +6 Con
Bracers: +6 Str
Googles: +2 Wis, +13 Spot Intricate Field Ops
Cloak: +4 Resistance
Ring1: Greater FL
Ring2: FF/Elemental Resistance Rings or Reaver Ring
Gloves: Bramble Casters
Necklace: Jorgundals Collar

Slightly more perfect setup:
Armor: Eh AC matters in a couple quests so I still use armor. Namely reaver raid and outdoor hunting since I can't select elite for adventure areas.. So +5 MFP.. Swap in black dragonscale for the heal clicky when needed.

Trinket: Littany of the dead.
Helm: Minos Legens
Boots: Madstone/Kundarak Delving
Belt: Titan (6 str + Gr false life)
Bracers: +1 to hit bracers (Consider replacing with +hitpoint greensteel ones)
Googles: Mentau's +4 seeker
Cloak: +4 Resistance, +5 protection, few clickies
Ring1: Ring of unknown origins - swap to seal of earth/ring of balance when appropriate
Ring2: FF/Elemental Resistance Rings or Reaver Ring
Gloves: Bramble Casters
Necklace: +6 Con

re: +8 str greensteel bracers - not possible. You can only get the exception stat bonuses on weapons, not accessories.

sigtrent
02-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Id go with fearsome if you are worried about getting killed. It really does take off a good deal of heat when the going gets rough and unless they are immune to fear they get -2 to attack after the first swing. So if you are getting mauled, try it out.

I don't wear mine when I feel like I can handle the encounters without much difficulty because it is a pain to occasionaly chase down or ranged attack feared monsters and risk agroing some other nearby group. With some pugs I don't wear fearsome to prevent folks from doing something stupid like agroing another encounter chasing feared mobs while the group is healing up.

QuantumFX
02-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Not really about AC but it is about defenses on a barbarian...

Something I'd like to see is a Jellybean type build dual weilding Bodyfeeding Rapiers of Puncturing. I've used a single BFoP rapier on one of my rangers (with stoneskin) and it's funny watching everyone else's health bars go down.

Hadrian
02-14-2008, 06:11 PM
As a Warforged you can use the Docent of Defiance for some DR help instead of wearing fearsome.

Draclaud
02-14-2008, 06:14 PM
Slightly more perfect setup:
Armor: Eh AC matters in a couple quests so I still use armor. Namely reaver raid and outdoor hunting since I can't select elite for adventure areas.. So +5 MFP.. Swap in black dragonscale for the heal clicky when needed.

Trinket: Littany of the dead.
Helm: Minos Legens
Boots: Madstone/Kundarak Delving
Belt: Titan (6 str + Gr false life)
Bracers: +1 to hit bracers (Consider replacing with +hitpoint greensteel ones)
Googles: Mentau's +4 seeker
Cloak: +4 Resistance, +5 protection, few clickies
Ring1: Ring of unknown origins - swap to seal of earth/ring of balance when appropriate
Ring2: FF/Elemental Resistance Rings or Reaver Ring
Gloves: Bramble Casters
Necklace: +6 Con

re: +8 str greensteel bracers - not possible. You can only get the exception stat bonuses on weapons, not accessories.

Yah that is a better set up. I don't happen to have some of that, so that's why my gear is set up like it is. Just happened to be the best of what I had available.

geoffhanna
02-14-2008, 06:41 PM
Why would you want fearsome on a barb? Just means you have to chase the bad guys all the time.

If raid armor is allowed, may I suggest Kundarak Delving Suit?

Vaarsuvius
02-14-2008, 10:54 PM
I use elemental guard of heavy fort I used to have one of each element but several of them have broken beyond repair starting with my acid guard of heavy fort, my favorite one.

I also coupled this with the chord of reprisals belt (fire guard) and the Bramble casters gloves (thorn guard).

So every time I get hit they recieve 3d8 of asst damage :).......:D.....:cool:


V

KiwiPhil889
02-14-2008, 11:47 PM
Generally? he runs in Fearsome of heavy fort,swap out to fearsome falselife,dependin on situation,have the minos helm as well so dont lose hvy fort. Also have greater fire,acid,lightening,cold Robes and cloaks,plus some shields where i need more than 1 or 2 type of ele resists,but tend to lay off the shields as they smoke my DPS.

Also,just to note, have 2 lvls of rogue so maintain evasion. Yes,my AC sucks,so i try to go down the damage avoidance route. Generally?? i dont chase feared mobs but will move in the opposite direction if i have to to get em to stop running.

The hotswappin of robes is too good for me to give up for what seems a very average AC,unless you have a reasonable amount of raid gear,and even then?? alot to give up.

cheers

Beherit_Baphomar
02-15-2008, 11:28 AM
Why would you want fearsome on a barb? Just means you have to chase the bad guys all the time.

If raid armor is allowed, may I suggest Kundarak Delving Suit?

Have you tried it? No? Oh ok.

Why would you want the delving suit on a barb? Whats that doing for ya? 14 AC? Or do you play a sword and shield barb?

Mmm, thats it.

Hvymetal
02-15-2008, 01:45 PM
Why would you want fearsome on a barb? Just means you have to chase the bad guys all the time.

If raid armor is allowed, may I suggest Kundarak Delving Suit?Don't chase them, work on the mobs that aren't running. If they are all dead stand still a second (yea hard I know) and then kill the feared mobs as they just stand there like 20' away.

Tanka
02-15-2008, 05:26 PM
Fearsome rocks. It makes mobs stop hitting you, giving the Cleric a chance to Destruct to his heart's content.

Tanka wears Fearsome. Swears by it. It's a lifesaver.

Cold_Stele
02-17-2008, 05:21 AM
and if somemathing hit often get feared, which are -4 towards kargon pk while it runs away :)

If you're wearing Fearsome, and have a smart Arcane in the group, he's gonna PK the feared mob running from you, not the one you were just working on and had beat down to 10&#37; HP...

geoffhanna
02-18-2008, 11:03 PM
Have you tried it? No? Oh ok.

Why would you want the delving suit on a barb? Whats that doing for ya? 14 AC? Or do you play a sword and shield barb?

Mmm, thats it.

<Confused> Yes my barb wears it. No she is not sword and board. I fail to understand your point. It adds 16 AC, not 14, which IIRC is comparable to MFP? As a side bonus, the KDS is light armor which is better for certain builds, and never seems to take any damage (although I haven't died in it since the death penalty changed).


Don't chase them, work on the mobs that aren't running. If they are all dead stand still a second (yea hard I know) and then kill the feared mobs as they just stand there like 20' away.

That doesn't seem to work for me as well. They keep running from me until they reach an area boundary which may mean pulling me into new agro. And they are nearly impossible to hit from behind until they stop.

If you want fearsome, you can get it on a necklace without having to spend any plat or farm anything harder than three crypt quests. If agro is out of hand, put on the necklace, or better yet swap to a paralyzer.

But I seem to be outnumbered :)

Beherit_Baphomar
02-19-2008, 10:35 AM
<Confused> Yes my barb wears it. No she is not sword and board. I fail to understand your point. It adds 16 AC, not 14, which IIRC is comparable to MFP? As a side bonus, the KDS is light armor which is better for certain builds, and never seems to take any damage (although I haven't died in it since the death penalty changed).

My point is even in +5 Acid Guard Mithril Fullplate of Greater Uberness, yer barbs still only got a 27 AC. My level 8 fighter would smack you around.

In my humble opinion armour on a barb is not picked for what it can do for your AC, its picked to do more damage to the mobs (XXX guard) or how it can stop mobs beating on ya (fearsome), oh and how it looks (awesome brigadines & hide armours out there).
Suggesting a barbarian hunts down a piece of raid loot for armour is kinda, well, pointless. Although it does kinda go with my number three choice when picking armour (looks).

My "have you tried it?" comment was directed at you dismissing fearsome armour.


As a side note, yer KDS wont take any damage from dying. Its bound. Bound items dont take death damage, ever, but they may still take permadamage from wear.

tihocan
02-19-2008, 12:20 PM
Bound items dont take death damage, ever, but they may still take permadamage from wear.
No, bound items never take any form of permanent damage.
Death damage does not inflict permanent damage on unbound items either.

Beherit_Baphomar
02-19-2008, 12:21 PM
No, bound items never take any form of permanent damage.
Death damage does not inflict permanent damage on unbound items either.

Correct.

As the kids say these days, my bad.

geoffhanna
02-19-2008, 05:51 PM
My point is even in +5 Acid Guard Mithril Fullplate of Greater Uberness, yer barbs still only got a 27 AC. My level 8 fighter would smack you around.

In my humble opinion armour on a barb is not picked for what it can do for your AC, its picked to do more damage to the mobs (XXX guard) or how it can stop mobs beating on ya (fearsome), oh and how it looks (awesome brigadines & hide armours out there).
Suggesting a barbarian hunts down a piece of raid loot for armour is kinda, well, pointless. Although it does kinda go with my number three choice when picking armour (looks).

My "have you tried it?" comment was directed at you dismissing fearsome armour.

As a side note, yer KDS wont take any damage from dying. Its bound. Bound items dont take death damage, ever, but they may still take permadamage from wear.

Tried fearsome on a melee character = yes
Having armor class on a barbarian = good
The ultimate perfect choice for barbarian kit = subjective opinion

This is partly why I love this game :D

Beherit_Baphomar
02-20-2008, 01:18 PM
Tried fearsome on a melee character = yes Really? Surprising.

Having armor class on a barbarian = good Im...not sure what to say here..."LOL" maybe? Kinda goes with what I thought about your barbarian.

The ultimate perfect choice for barbarian kit = subjective opinion Telling the OP to farm Velah for the KDS for a barbarian? Its certainly an opinion, of sorts, I suppose.

This is partly why I love this game :D

Comments in Warning! Red.

EinarMal
02-20-2008, 01:33 PM
Well I don't have a barbarian but I do have a no AC TWF Bard and so I will chime in with also recommending fearsome. I would also try to find something that looks cool, as robes are lame! I think a good combo is fearsome with acid resistance on it. Get a cool looking black leather suit of some sort, like BarbElvis....

Tanka
02-20-2008, 02:52 PM
I'll have to get a screenshot of Tanka's Fearsome of Axeblock. Not a bad little combo.

Mad_Bombardier
02-20-2008, 02:59 PM
I'll have to get a screenshot of Tanka's Fearsome of Axeblock. Not a bad little combo.You do know that Axeblock doesn't stack with innate Barbarian DR, right? There's a lot of neat suffix properties on armor to be had.

Tanka
02-20-2008, 03:16 PM
You do know that Axeblock doesn't stack with innate Barbarian DR, right? There's a lot of neat suffix properties on armor to be had.
If you'll notice, Tanka isn't a Barb. :p

Venar
02-20-2008, 03:29 PM
Fearsome works nice if you use a slowburst/crippling/tendon slice thing.
Fearsome of SR 19 is a good armor.

Mad_Bombardier
02-20-2008, 04:02 PM
If you'll notice, Tanka isn't a Barb. :pSilly Batman combo thingie... What are you doing in the Barb forums? :p

Tanka
02-20-2008, 04:14 PM
Silly Batman combo thingie... What are you doing in the Barb forums? :p
postcount++;

:p

(Oh, and relating my experiences as a Fighter, which are fairly similar to several Barbarians in many regards.)

Beherit_Baphomar
02-20-2008, 04:15 PM
Silly Batman combo thingie... What are you doing in the Barb forums? :p

Ironically enough, wheres your barb in yer signature???

Mad_Bombardier
02-20-2008, 05:23 PM
Ironically enough, wheres your barb in yer signature???Sig too long, can't edit it. :( I also have a Barb, a Warchanter, an Arcane Trapsmith, and a Stormsinger (Tempest Spellsinger). :)

philo
02-21-2008, 04:19 AM
So if you choose to go fearsome as this thread implies and dont want to be forced into wearing robes so you actually have a bit of ac it sounds like the emerald claw neck is the choice for you.

Its Fearsome, diplo 11, intimidate 11 and 3 charges of symbol of fear necklace. I actually find the symbol useful at times too. (unless you can find that +5 fearsome mfp/bp...but thats going to be much harder to come by)

Just find someone who has cursed crypt open and run it a few times to upgrade your amulet all the way.

and for the people who dont like chasing feared mobs?..besides for the fact that they dont usually run far...i usually just leave em and move on. Most cases there is no need to kill everything anyway...i dont usually stop long enough to kill things that dont need to be killed /shrug

Revenant15
02-21-2008, 04:22 AM
deleted

Beherit_Baphomar
02-21-2008, 02:42 PM
Only problem with the Emerald Claw necklace is you then have to give up the Silver Flame necklace...which is much superior, imo.

As for what type of fearsome to wear...anything. My barb uses fearsome brigadine of something. Gives him a whopping 26AC when fully buff, not raging.

Or a +3 fearsome mithril...which is about a 28 AC or something...unraged.

philo
02-21-2008, 04:58 PM
Only problem with the Emerald Claw necklace is you then have to give up the Silver Flame necklace...which is much superior, imo.



Unless you are running mod 5 content consistently the silver flame necklace isnt that useful anymore. I rarely use mine on my sorc these days.

With the current mod 6 content, the silver flame necklace doesnt really do much. There are what? 2 maybe 3 beholders tops in the whole mod and no undead? The emerald claw neck on the other hand can be useful in every new quest.

If you are wearing the silver flame neck most of the time...and running mod 6 content most of the time...i would even recommend switching your silver flame to emerald claw which would then allow you to wear a decent +5 mith armor.

Beherit_Baphomar
02-21-2008, 05:02 PM
Unless you are running mod 5 content consistently the silver flame necklace isnt that useful anymore. I rarely use mine on my sorc these days.

With the current mod 6 content, the silver flame necklace doesnt really do much. There are what? 2 maybe 3 beholders tops in the whole mod and no undead? The emerald claw neck on the other hand can be useful in every new quest.

Again, also a very good point.

tenga
02-22-2008, 12:32 AM
dont think so, but does invulnerability stack with barb dr? fearsome of invuln. is a fun combo

Illuminati
02-22-2008, 06:20 AM
It doens't stack.

Invulnerabilty is sort of worthless at high level since it's DR / Magic and most mobs have 'magic' weapons, claws, etc. to bypass it. It's nice at level 6 though =p

I've been trying robes for a bit just to save on potion costs, Rage, etc. inbetween rages and its not bad. I hate the look personally but at lvl 16 I should have 3x Greater Elemental Resists up at all times with Acid guard and Fearsome for multi-mobs.

geoffhanna
02-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Most of the Lamania based creatures in the Vale are affected by Invulnerability.

I'm not sure about the demonics and gnolls.

Mhykke
02-27-2008, 12:10 AM
On my warforged barb, I have a full set of xx guard of greater xx resist docents. If I had a fleshie barb, I'd look for a robe of the same (or fearsome of greater xx resist).

Cold_Stele
02-27-2008, 05:31 AM
If you are wearing the silver flame neck most of the time...and running mod 6 content most of the time...i would even recommend switching your silver flame to emerald claw which would then allow you to wear a decent +5 mith armor.

100&#37; agree.

I just switched from Silver Flame to Emerald Claw - I just find it useful in much more of the game's content, not just mod 6.

I swap in Beholder's Optic Nerve when needed, but there's always Death's Lockets to be found on the AH too.

Even when mobs are immune to Fearsome, that +11 Intim is great for pulling mobs to you without otherwise wasting an equipment slot (Barbs need Intimidate IMO).

Don't forget your DeathWard goggles though, or better still speak nicely to the Cleric...

Cold_Stele
02-27-2008, 05:49 AM
On my warforged barb, I have a full set of xx guard of greater xx resist docents. If I had a fleshie barb, I'd look for a robe of the same.

Curious - do you mean opposed elements such as Fire Guard of Grtr Cold Resistance (instead of like elements such as Fire Guard of Grtr Fire Res)? The former sounds nice but the later could be plain sucky...

IMO - it's ok for WF not to spend a precious feat for AC but not for Barbs to run around in robes. Sure it may not make a difference in high end elite, but what about running through wilderness quests en route to them? You can't find a spare inventory slot to run around with the Madstone Shield on between quests to stop getting shot/tripped? Higher AC is attainable to mitigate nuisance damage, and there are plenty of interesting effects on med armor, particularly the dragon scale ones...

Mhykke
02-27-2008, 06:21 AM
Curious - do you mean opposed elements such as Fire Guard of Grtr Cold Resistance (instead of like elements such as Fire Guard of Grtr Fire Res)? The former sounds nice but the later could be plain sucky...

IMO - it's ok for WF not to spend a precious feat for AC but not for Barbs to run around in robes. Sure it may not make a difference in high end elite, but what about running through wilderness quests en route to them? You can't find a spare inventory slot to run around with the Madstone Shield on between quests to stop getting shot/tripped? Higher AC is attainable to mitigate nuisance damage, and there are plenty of interesting effects on med armor, particularly the dragon scale ones...


Yes, opposed elements are ideal, ice guard of greater fire resist....I don't bother w/ the fire guard of grtr fire resist...I think that's pretty much common sense...When I can't find the ideal, I'll settle for the in between, the acid guard of greater cold resist, etc...


I'm a bad person to ask about the outdoor areas, b/c from the orchard on out, I like to figure out every single nook and cranny, so I know which way to go to the quests that I don't aggro everything and its mother. For someone not so familiar w/ the area, you may have a point...I've seen some people get beat to death running to a quest. My only suggestion for times like these is, if you're that low AC barb and don't know your way, then follow someone who does....and if you don't know, ask...

Brego
04-02-2008, 10:41 AM
Let me start out by saying I have never really played much with Barbs. I have thought about various build but have never actually built one. So perhaps you can dismiss this as speaking out of ignorance. But, correct me if wrong, shouldn't certain barb builds be able to get low-40s ac with the correct armor, dexterity and prot items.

I am thinking of a dwarf build, perhaps with a level or 2 of fighter to take advantage of max dex armor bonuses, mithril full plate, chaosguarde, +5 prot item. I am comparing this to my ranger who has an unbuffed twf ac of 41. I would think the right barb build could come close to that. Add barkskin +5 and chattering ring and 49 is feasible. Not uber but certainly attainable while offering some protection

I guess I find it funny that ac is just dismissed for barbs. But maybe I am missing something.

Patrick

Mhykke
04-02-2008, 10:57 AM
Let me start out by saying I have never really played much with Barbs. I have thought about various build but have never actually built one. So perhaps you can dismiss this as speaking out of ignorance. But, correct me if wrong, shouldn't certain barb builds be able to get low-40s ac with the correct armor, dexterity and prot items.

I am thinking of a dwarf build, perhaps with a level or 2 of fighter to take advantage of max dex armor bonuses, mithril full plate, chaosguarde, +5 prot item. I am comparing this to my ranger who has an unbuffed twf ac of 41. I would think the right barb build could come close to that. Add barkskin +5 and chattering ring and 49 is feasible. Not uber but certainly attainable while offering some protection

I guess I find it funny that ac is just dismissed for barbs. But maybe I am missing something.

Patrick

Put it this way, how good is all that effort to get your barb to a 40 or 49 AC going to do you if the mob has a mid 40's/50ish to hit? If you sacrificed killing that mob faster (or defending yourself in other ways, like saves or dr/etc.) in any way to achieve that AC, you're hurt yourself.

Brego
04-02-2008, 11:26 AM
First off, thinking about this more, the barb ac vs my ranger ac would be missing a few elements: tempest ranger (-2), dodge (-1), twf defense (-1). The ranger also has 3 levels of pally which offer +2 ac enhancements which the pure barb would not get. Certainly the barb could get twf defense and dodge but would sacrifice some dps feats. So the unbuffed, dwarf max dex bonus barb is probably around 36 with reasonably attainable gear. Add +5 barkskin and you are at 41. Say you land a chattering ring, you are at 44.

Now the question is 41 even worth it? I think it is for most of the level 14 or lower content. 14+ you need the chattering ring but then you can start adding insight bonuses to your shroud gear too, so you are at 45 without the ring, 48 with ring.

I only have anecdotal evidence that a mid-to-high 40s ac is worth it and that is based on my ranger. My ranger is designed primarily for melee. Does he take damage? Yes but not much. The only mobs that seem to hit him hard consistently are the shroud orthons and somewhat devils. I don't watch combat logs consistently but they certainly swing and miss too. The trogs hardly ever hit him.

Now a barb should exceed my ranger dps, take down the attacker more quickly and avoid damage through death. But the ac should help too, no?

Brego

Krazed
04-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Put it this way, how good is all that effort to get your barb to a 40 or 49 AC going to do you if the mob has a mid 40's/50ish to hit? If you sacrificed killing that mob faster (or defending yourself in other ways, like saves or dr/etc.) in any way to achieve that AC, you're hurt yourself.

There is a way to achieve that kind of AC without hurting yourself, however, so there really is no downside to it. At the most you'll lose the guards on the robes you might be wearing, but in a group there is no downside to buffing your AC. Solo is another matter, as having a robe grants you an extra greater resist, at the least. However it is almost more necessary to have AC when solo, unless of course you like going through 300 health pots a quest.

Gunga
04-02-2008, 12:36 PM
I guess I have a question: at what point does ac become meaningless?

Krazed
04-02-2008, 12:39 PM
I guess I have a question: at what point does ac become meaningless?

Never, imo

Gunga
04-02-2008, 12:44 PM
Never, imo

That's kinda what I'm thinking. Just because we aren't walking around with Pali AC doesn't mean, to me, that we should ditch the armor and wear robes. Actually it sounds pretty silly, and I'm sure we're not gonna get any more cleric love if we're showing up for a shroud in a dress.

Mhykke
04-02-2008, 02:49 PM
That's kinda what I'm thinking. Just because we aren't walking around with Pali AC doesn't mean, to me, that we should ditch the armor and wear robes. Actually it sounds pretty silly, and I'm sure we're not gonna get any more cleric love if we're showing up for a shroud in a dress.


It never becomes meaningless, but that's not the argument.

The argument isn't that AC is meaningless. The argument is that at the highest lvls, you need a very high AC for it to do any good. There is a difference.

And you're example of showing up for the shroud in a dress: I know that on my cleric, I'd much rather have a bunch of butt naked max DPS barbs taking the fiend down in 2 rounds than a bunch of heavily armored tanks with AC's of 60 taking him down in 3 or 4+ (and the point is not many achieve this 60 AC, so what really happens is you have a player base sacrificing DPS for an AC that's absolutely worthless in a fight like this, 10 or more below that 60 AC).



There is a way to achieve that kind of AC without hurting yourself, however, so there really is no downside to it. At the most you'll lose the guards on the robes you might be wearing, but in a group there is no downside to buffing your AC. Solo is another matter, as having a robe grants you an extra greater resist, at the least. However it is almost more necessary to have AC when solo, unless of course you like going through 300 health pots a quest.

Sure, if you don't hurt yourself, there's no downside to it. But there's not much of an upside to it either. I haven't seen too many vale mobs have problems hitting a mid 40s AC. And if you're facing a mob w/ mid 40's to hit, that mid 40's AC isn't going to do any good.

boldarblood
04-02-2008, 03:22 PM
At end game elite content unless your hitting 55+AC, then AC is pretty meaningless imho. I would much rather wear a robe of something useful then hit a 40 AC where you still getting hit every shot.

Beherit_Baphomar
04-02-2008, 03:34 PM
I agree whole heartedly with Mhykke.

He speaketh the truth.

If you disagree then you are wrong.

That, my friends, is all.

Gunga
04-02-2008, 03:51 PM
It never becomes meaningless, but that's not the argument.

The argument isn't that AC is meaningless. The argument is that at the highest lvls, you need a very high AC for it to do any good. There is a difference.

Not sure I see the difference between meaningless and not doing any good.

Gunga
04-02-2008, 03:52 PM
..

Gunga
04-02-2008, 03:53 PM
I agree whole heartedly with Mhykke.

He speaketh the truth.

If you disagree then you are wrong.

That, my friends, is all.

Is there a parrot in here?

Beerthirty
04-02-2008, 04:18 PM
No one uses Null Cloth gown? Usually use mith fp, but I throw the robe on from time to time...

Brego
04-02-2008, 04:34 PM
I guess my issue boils down to this ... people believe that barbarians cannot achieve a 'meaningful' ac for high end content, so why bother putting any effort into the matter. My question is this ... if you build a dwarf barb (armor dex bonus), slap on mfp, chattering ring, chaosguard, +5 prot, etc) are you doing anything to hurt your dps? You get a mid-40s ac. I think it is worth it for 95% of the game content. Your mileage may vary.

Brego

Beherit_Baphomar
04-02-2008, 04:34 PM
Is there a parrot in here?

I lol'd.

Beherit_Baphomar
04-02-2008, 04:38 PM
I guess my issue boils down to this ... people believe that barbarians cannot achieve a 'meaningful' ac for high end content, so why bother putting any effort into the matter. My question is this ... if you build a dwarf barb (armor dex bonus), slap on mfp, chattering ring, chaosguard, +5 prot, etc) are you doing anything to hurt your dps? You get a mid-40s ac. I think it is worth it for 95% of the game content. Your mileage may vary.

Brego

+5 PRO item, chattering ring and chaosguard all take up slots. PRO is either yer necklace, cloak or ring. Far better thing
to go in these slots. Chaosguard is bracers, Id rather have +6 STR there than what, +1 to AC? (Been a long time since I
played my pally who has them.) The Chattering Ring is, obviously, a ring. Again, far better items to put there. Why would
I take up these slots to reach a 40 AC, get hit on everything but a 1 still and have no where to put my other gear?

I mean if you really want to farm The Titan raid for a chattering ring and take up all these other slots with AC boosting
items to reach a 40 AC thats all good, Ive no problems there. But my barbarian will stick with other items for those slots.

Brego
04-02-2008, 04:50 PM
OK, let's imagine gear. Tell me what you would put in place of these items


Minos
Cloak: +5 Cloak
Chaosguard (+2)
Dex gloves
Chattering ring
Strength ring
Bloodstone
MFP
Con necklace
Striders or boots of the innocent

What items would you place instead for the ac items? I am honestly curious as I have never built a barb.

Brego

Snoggy
04-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Since AC's less of a concern ... the coolest thing about my barb is ... STYLE counts for once. I mean, you really do have access to all those armors no one else wears. Hide. Brigadine. Scale. Leather. Padded. There's a lot of interesting stuff in those armors dropped on vendors frequently. All kinds of Acid Guards, Fire Guards, Blueshines, Fearsomes, Deathblocks.

Robes are fun. And easy to swap. So that's cool. I guess it's kind of odd on a male dwarf. But on a female human, it's not so bad to look at.

And if I read the dev interviews right, Mod 7 with monks will be bringing with it "clothes" that are like robes in function but actual clothes in fashion. Would open up a whole new range of stuff to get for both my Barbarian and my Rogue.

I guess my point is, it's kind of liberating on my barbarian. I can wear just about anything out there now since AC's less of an issue.

Tanka
04-02-2008, 04:58 PM
OK, let's imagine gear. Tell me what you would put in place of these items


Minos
Cloak: +5 Cloak
Chaosguard (+2)
Dex gloves
Chattering ring
Strength ring
Bloodstone
MFP
Con necklace
Striders or boots of the innocent

What items would you place instead for the ac items? I am honestly curious as I have never built a barb.

Brego
Minos
Greater Resist/Resist (saves) Cloak
Inferno Bracers/Etheral Bracers/Shroud Crafting Bracers
BrambleCasters
Greater Resist Ring (hotswap)
+6 Con Ring
Bloodstone
Fearsome of Greater Resist
Scourge Choker
Madstone Boots
Belt = Titan Belt/+6 Str

End of.

Beherit_Baphomar
04-02-2008, 04:58 PM
OK, let's imagine gear. Tell me what you would put in place of these items


Minos - Same
Cloak: +5 Cloak - Either a +4 or +5 Resistance or Elemental resistance.
Chaosguard (+2) - STR
Dex gloves - Same
Chattering ring - GFL
Strength ring - Acid/Fire/Cold/Sonic/Lightning Res.
Bloodstone - Same
MFP - Fearsome MFP/Hide..+ not an issue, unless yer a lucky SOB.
Con necklace - WIS or CON.
Striders or boots of the innocent - Same and Madstone

What items would you place instead for the ac items? I am honestly curious as I have never built a barb.

Brego


Like Snoggy said, devoting so many slots to AC is very limiting. Not worrying about a 40 AC when it really doesnt matter
lets you switch around a little. You pull a GFL ring, well STR and CON are already there. So switch STR to bracers and
equip that GFL ring. Or you pull a +6 CON necklace, take that +5 PRO off and stick it there, then you can switch out for
elemental resists when needed.

boldarblood
04-02-2008, 05:27 PM
what I wear for my barb

Helm-Minos Helm
Armor-black dragon / fearsome / blueshine (in bank for rainbow runs - those damn rustys are evil)
ring 1 - +6 con
ring 2 - disease immunity SR 19
cloak - resisance / greater resist cloaks as needed
trinket - bloodstone
bracers - +6 strength
gloves - backstabber gloves
boots - madstone
belt - poison immunity greater false life
necklace - +6 wisdom
boots - madstone


optimally would love to get the titan belt, to open up the bracer spot for other items. Ethereal bracers, DQ Bracers (cant remember name), or even something like steady handed arm bracer (+1 to hit)

Brego
04-02-2008, 06:06 PM
Bramble casters or chaosguard ... again your mileage may vary but if you don't care about ac, do you really care about dr? A heal scroll is a heal scroll right?

Greater ele cloak? Is it really that hard to get someone to cast resists on you? As a cleric, I would much rather burn some sp on buffing up a melee versus burning through all my sp trying to keep you upright. All my toons can cast their own resists, so I guess I never have to worry about it, but I can't ever imagine using a slot for an elemental resist item.

A resist saves cloak is a somewhat different story. But still if you don't care about attack damage, do you really care about a failed save and subsequent damage. Bottom line is you roll against a mobs to-hit constantly during a battle. You roll, what, maybe 3-5 saves during a battle?

Has anyone tried both a mod ac build and versus a robe build? I would be curious to know if there is a noticeable difference in how the toons play.

Brego (who has resisted building a barb but just may have to give it a whirl after this)

Tanka
04-02-2008, 06:12 PM
Bramble casters or chaosguard ... again your mileage may vary but if you don't care about ac, do you really care about dr? A heal scroll is a heal scroll right?
DR10 vs Piercing stops pretty much any arrow dead in its tracks. Period. It also has Greater Thorn Guard, causing 1d8 damage every time you're hit.


Greater ele cloak? Is it really that hard to get someone to cast resists on you? As a cleric, I would much rather burn some sp on buffing up a melee versus burning through all my sp trying to keep you upright. All my toons can cast their own resists, so I guess I never have to worry about it, but I can't ever imagine using a slot for an elemental resist item.
Undispellable Resists > Dispellable Resists. Period. End of story.


A resist saves cloak is a somewhat different story. But still if you don't care about attack damage, do you really care about a failed save and subsequent damage. Bottom line is you roll against a mobs to-hit constantly during a battle. You roll, what, maybe 3-5 saves during a battle?
Never fought the Gnoll caster in the Shroud, have you? Greater Command sucks.


Brego (who has resisted building a barb but just may have to give it a whirl after this)
That says a lot. A Barb's functionality is reduced significantly when not Raged (-2 AC). His functionality is increased significantly when Raged via spell (additional -2 AC), Madstone clickie Rage and then Madstone hit Rage.

Snoggy
04-02-2008, 06:24 PM
DR10 vs Piercing stops pretty much any arrow dead in its tracks. Period. It also has Greater Thorn Guard, causing 1d8 damage every time you're hit.


What he said!

:)

It's a nice item.

Brego
04-02-2008, 07:15 PM
I remain unconvinced. When I originally asked for items to alternate for ac, I was expecting DPS items. All I have seen are damage mitigators. Again you are getting 90% of your chance for damage from someone swinging a scimitar at you. You mitigate your greatest chance for damage by building up your ac.

I don't use elemental resist items and I find that my cast resists are dispelled very rarely. It just does not happen that often. Does it ever happen? Sure not enough to devote an item slot to one resist.

And no, I have not been greater commanded (ever!) but all my toons have some inherent resistance. With a barb, your wisdom is going to blow. Will +5 to your will save really make that much difference in the shroud? Probably not. I am sure it does suck to be GC but I doubt you would see much difference in the amount you get GC with or without the resist item.

Brego

brshelton
04-02-2008, 07:19 PM
I remain unconvinced. When I originally asked for items to alternate for ac, I was expecting DPS items.
Brego

thornguards deal 1d8=DPS
will save keeps you standing situationally so you can fight=DPS
resists keep you alive so you can fight=DPS

craft a guard item for every slot possible if you want to....

boldarblood
04-02-2008, 07:30 PM
I remain unconvinced. When I originally asked for items to alternate for ac, I was expecting DPS items. All I have seen are damage mitigators. Again you are getting 90% of your chance for damage from someone swinging a scimitar at you. You mitigate your greatest chance for damage by building up your ac.

I don't use elemental resist items and I find that my cast resists are dispelled very rarely. It just does not happen that often. Does it ever happen? Sure not enough to devote an item slot to one resist.

And no, I have not been greater commanded (ever!) but all my toons have some inherent resistance. With a barb, your wisdom is going to blow. Will +5 to your will save really make that much difference in the shroud? Probably not. I am sure it does suck to be GC but I doubt you would see much difference in the amount you get GC with or without the resist item.

Brego


If your building a DPS barbarian you will never get your AC high enough to matter. Sometimes the best thing is a bit of mitagation to damage taken, your better served, if your so worried about your AC, build a fighter. With a barb your saves are very high. With a starting 8 wisdom, my saves vs spells can go over 30 while raged (with a 6 wisdom item, +4 resistance, GH, raged, etc). All of your enhancements should go towards more damage. Barbarian Power Attack, increase to strength/con, crit rage 2, etc.

Brego
04-02-2008, 07:36 PM
Well this brings us back to what ac amount 'matters.' I think you can get to mid 40s without sacrificing dps. And I think mid 40s 'matters's in 95% of the game content. Will you avoid all damage? No but you will avoid some and save more damage than you would take from failed saves or the occasional dispelled resist. But I am curious if someone has actually tried each approach and what differences they have noticed.

Brego

Tanka
04-02-2008, 07:49 PM
Well this brings us back to what ac amount 'matters.' I think you can get to mid 40s without sacrificing dps. And I think mid 40s 'matters's in 95% of the game content. Will you avoid all damage? No but you will avoid some and save more damage than you would take from failed saves or the occasional dispelled resist. But I am curious if someone has actually tried each approach and what differences they have noticed.

Brego
I've got a Fighter who can hit mid40 AC with very few buffs. In any 14-16 content, he still gets hit 95% of the time (1s still miss, donchaknow).

A Barbarian's best defense is an outstanding offense -- two-hander (or two-weapon), Power Attack, full slew of Rages, elemental guards galore, etc etc etc.

Greater Command takes you out of the fight for up to two minutes. That's two full minutes of fully Raged DPS you're missing, which can severely hamper any group of players.

boldarblood
04-02-2008, 08:26 PM
Well this brings us back to what ac amount 'matters.' I think you can get to mid 40s without sacrificing dps. And I think mid 40s 'matters's in 95% of the game content. Will you avoid all damage? No but you will avoid some and save more damage than you would take from failed saves or the occasional dispelled resist. But I am curious if someone has actually tried each approach and what differences they have noticed.

Brego

Your good with a 40s ac until about the time GH starts, then at that point unless your going 55+ AC your still going to get hit 95%+ of the time. And in all honestly you spend more time at max level than lower levels. It's worth it to go for mitagation as opposed to AC at that point, imho.

Gunga
04-02-2008, 08:39 PM
Your good with a 40s ac until about the time GH starts, then at that point unless your going 55+ AC your still going to get hit 95%+ of the time. And in all honestly you spend more time at max level than lower levels. It's worth it to go for mitagation as opposed to AC at that point, imho.

So with a 54 ac, in gh, you're getting hit 95% of the time?

I call BS, kind sir.

Brego
04-02-2008, 08:58 PM
Your good with a 40s ac until about the time GH starts, then at that point unless your going 55+ AC your still going to get hit 95%+ of the time. And in all honestly you spend more time at max level than lower levels. It's worth it to go for mitagation as opposed to AC at that point, imho.

That has not been my experience in the GH. I find mid 40s to be adequate up to elite. Not impervious but adequate. Same with norm in vale and orchard. Hard and norm in vale/orchard are a different story but by then you can upgrade your ac with crafting.

Brego

Mhykke
04-02-2008, 09:51 PM
Well this brings us back to what ac amount 'matters.' I think you can get to mid 40s without sacrificing dps. And I think mid 40s 'matters's in 95&#37; of the game content. Will you avoid all damage? No but you will avoid some and save more damage than you would take from failed saves or the occasional dispelled resist. But I am curious if someone has actually tried each approach and what differences they have noticed.

Brego

Well it depends on what you mean by the 95% figure. I know I build my characters expecting to play most of the time capped, in the newest quests. And so 95% of that time, a mid 40's AC doesn't do me much good on my barb.


I remain unconvinced. When I originally asked for items to alternate for ac, I was expecting DPS items. All I have seen are damage mitigators.

Well, that's the thing. For barbs (dps ones), it isn't about AC as much as damage mitigation, and DPS. It's about getting that blur/displacement, that stoneskin, that DR, and killing the mob. You neglect to mention that it's not only damage mitigators you see, but also DPS items. Any kind of "guard" item, like the bramble casters, cause damage to your opponent every time you are hit.

Again you are getting 90% of your chance for damage from someone swinging a scimitar at you. You mitigate your greatest chance for damage by building up your ac.

The best way for a barb to deal w/ the guy swinging a scimitar at him is to kill him. If that guy swinging the scimitar has a +40 to hit, then I for one am not worried about getting my AC up to +40 and sacrificing resistance items (which I will point out below help w/ DPS) or guard items, or str items, etc.


And no, I have not been greater commanded (ever!) but all my toons have some inherent resistance. With a barb, your wisdom is going to blow. Will +5 to your will save really make that much difference in the shroud? Probably not. I am sure it does suck to be GC but I doubt you would see much difference in the amount you get GC with or without the resist item.

Yes, +4 or +5 to your will save helps a lot. No offense, but you freely admit you never built a barb, and you keep arguing points that are pretty basic to the barb class. Barbs have pretty good will saves, due to the bonus they get while they rage. It's not hard for a barb to have around a 20 or more will save when raged. A +4 or +5 helps out a lot. You point out the shroud, so I'll use it as an example. If we're using the strategy of splitting people up for part 2 of the shroud, I always send barbarians after the gnoll (who dispels and casts greater command) over most fighters and rangers (I would say paladins but they've close to become extinct.) I can't remember if I ever heard of one complaining that he was greater commanded by the gnoll.

And this is where I'll mention resistance items, and how they help w/ DPS. If you're greater commanded, or anything else for that matter, you're taken out of the fight, and your DPS drops to zero. A barb needs to make sure he stays in the fight to continue to do damage. A choice between a +5 protection item or a +4 resistance item on my barb? I take the resistance item w/o ever looking back. An example is my sorcerer. He's a DPS'er/killer, and the feat I took last was force of personality when it came out. Why? B/c now my will save is pushing 30, and I rarely get taken out of a fight due to a will save spell. It's phenomenal. Before, I could get taken out of a fight due to a simple greater command, and in those cases wasn't contributing to damage or killing.

Brego


Replies in red.

Brego
04-02-2008, 10:15 PM
Well done Mhykke. You make the strongest points yet without piling on a bunch of bs. I am being swayed.

Brego

Illuminati
04-03-2008, 01:47 PM
A Barb's AC is his/her HP, plain and simple. There is no 'moderately good' or 'acceptable' AC for a Barb. If you sacrifice slots for AC gear over Resistance/Saves/DPS gear than I would recommend a fighter.

I have had every class to max for years now and can attest to the following at this point in the game:

AC: Unless you are at 52 (Norm Content), 56 (Hard Content), 62 (Elite Content) you are going to get hit 90% of the time.
HP:
Less than 48: 450+ HP (I do not recommend rediculous HP builds over 600, it is a waste at this point).
48-52AC: I would recommend roughly 350-375 HP
53-59AC: I would recommend roughly 325-350 HP
60+: I would recommend around 300

My Ranger usually sits around 52-55. Very comfortable on Normal, decent on Hard, and forget Elite. On Elite I just take the AC slots and turn them into HP or DPS slots.

My DPS TWF Barb when AC'd out stands at roughly 45. A complete waste. I would rather have a robe on 90% of the time than a no benefit piece of armor. It really is Saves > HP > AC at the Elite level. I am not happy with it, but that is how it goes.

Understand and do not limit yourself to one equipment set though. This isn't camelot. You shouldn't have 1 weapon and 1 set of armor. You should have a few different sets of setups. With the 20 hotbars coming you could keep a few hidden so that when you go solo, norm, elite, bad cleric, etc. you can just arrow down and click through them.

I also agree about GH on forward. Up until that point that 48 AC is ok but play style helps too. If you move alot and watch enemy swings you can squeek by with lower AC. If you are more of a stand there attack person, you are going to get hit more.

Since my mantra is "My AC is my HP" I usually let clerics know I will be leaving items in the chests for them. Even though I don't net as much, I still get enough loot for potions, repairs, etc. and it helps the most important member to me in the group (Cleric) partner with me better.

Grenfell
04-03-2008, 03:12 PM
Just wanted to add that barbarian DR is actually fairly impressive when you think about it.

I run around 7/- DR right now on Liann. It doesn't seem like much, but... y'know what? It helps.

Say some mob hits you on average for 30pts. That means after 5 hits, I've kind of got 1 "miss" -- the 7 pts of damage not taken x 5 = 35 damage. It's kind of like a "miss" isn't it?

No, it isn't like having very high AC; just think people forget about barbarian DR, which is indeed useful. Think of it this way: I have permanent 70% Stoneskin.

/gren

Tanka
04-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Yup, that's one of the many strengths of a Barb. DR that cannot be bypassed no matter what. It's, basically, extra HP on top of the already impressive HP they have.

Illuminati
04-03-2008, 04:09 PM
Yup, that's one of the many strengths of a Barb. DR that cannot be bypassed no matter what. It's, basically, extra HP on top of the already impressive HP they have.

I just need to find a sick body feed wep. Its really +15 DR if you think about it.

KatellaZeyn
04-03-2008, 04:12 PM
I remain unconvinced. When I originally asked for items to alternate for ac, I was expecting DPS items. All I have seen are damage mitigators. Again you are getting 90% of your chance for damage from someone swinging a scimitar at you. You mitigate your greatest chance for damage by building up your ac.

I don't use elemental resist items and I find that my cast resists are dispelled very rarely. It just does not happen that often. Does it ever happen? Sure not enough to devote an item slot to one resist.

And no, I have not been greater commanded (ever!) but all my toons have some inherent resistance. With a barb, your wisdom is going to blow. Will +5 to your will save really make that much difference in the shroud? Probably not. I am sure it does suck to be GC but I doubt you would see much difference in the amount you get GC with or without the resist item.

Brego

Admittedly, my responses here are only up to lv8, but I think I can offer something relevant.

My boyfriend plays a lv8 Warforged Fighter with Adamantine Body feat, Improved Fortification feat, and enhancements for his DR. He's almost unkillable in most situations, if all we're fighting are enemies that melee (with the exception of Rust Monsters).

However, he's got an 8 wisdom and 10 dex, and Fighter has **** for reflex/will saves. Because of this, mage enemies (and fire elements/mephits) can often kill him very, *very* quickly. If they don't, they still tend to take him completely out of the fight with Cause Fear/Scare/Otto's Resistable Dance/Command/etc. In fact, those take him out of the fight far faster than than the damage dealing spells, since they do so instantly rather than taking 2-3 castings. The only "good" thing about them over the damage dealing ones is we don't have to cart him back to a res shrine.

I recently managed to find him a +2 resist item, and he uses a clickie for Remove Fear (+4 on saves against fear). That +6 made a huge difference in how often he gets taken out of fights by enchantments (though it's still more often than we'd like).

And to relate this to dps. We fought a Mummy last night and he did 0 damage because he was Feared the whole time.

Now, yes, that's a Fighter, not a Barbie; but the point is that as near invulnerable as high AC + DR can potentially make one to melee attacks, it's all moot once there's an enemy mage involved.

Now, me, my highest is lv8 rogue. Damage dealing spells never hit me if they offer reflex save (I love to tease my party mates by standing inside spheres of flame, without my trapblast goggles on, and succeed on every reflex save). My will saves are significantly lower. I'm rarely a primary target, but I do get feared and danced occasionally, and when that happens, I lose all my dps. I don't tend to worry as much about keeping reflex save gear on for fights, but I have Glik's Bangle in my trinket slot at all times currently, and I'm on the lookout for a +3 or better cloak of resistance to use once I'm able. Won't even lose AC because I replaced my Disease Immunity Necklace and Cloak of Protection +1 with a Disease Immunity Necklace of Protection +1.

Elemental Resist? I love it. Screw having a mage cast it, though. They've got better things to spend their SP on, and better spells to have prepared, and with my items, I don't have to worry about the resistance wearing off at a bad time. My friends and I recently did Fire Caves' Stones Run Red. While my friends all worried about the cleric keeping up Protection From Fire and trying not to fall in the lava, I ran right through the lava without any concerns, wearing my Robe of Winter (Fire Resist 20). Fire Elements? Fire Mephits? Don't scare me. Even when I did need my AC, I'd just use my gloves to toss up a Mage Armor on myself.

Will it all work out exactly the same way for a Barbie as for a Rogue? Nope; but instead of 22DEX/Mage Armor/+3 Heavy Mithril Shield, the Barbie's got DR 5/- or higher with access to up to DR 15/- for 20 seconds at a time.

Straight damage prevention is always going to win over a mere % chance of avoiding damage.

Tanka
04-03-2008, 04:16 PM
I just need to find a sick body feed wep. Its really +15 DR if you think about it.
Ex-guildie of mine had a Bodyfeeding Falchion. :p

Snoggy
04-04-2008, 12:28 AM
I think you can get to mid 40s without sacrificing dps.

It's just a different style of build. Barbarians and Fighters are built differently, even if, at the end of the day they both spend a lot of time hacking and slashing at monsters, they don't use their equipment slots the same way.

I highly recommend playing a Barbarian for awhile to get that feel for the slight differences in how you choose your gear.

For instance a tower shield is a hefty chunk of AC. It's a noticable difference. And that's one of the aspects of DDO that makes me happy. That a shield can make a difference. Because I remember how laughable shields used to be in Everquest.

But my barbarian either dual wields or uses a two hander. So I lose a noticable chunk of the AC that helps my fighter get to the mid 40s because I don't have a tower shield. And then there's Rage to consider.

Just think about a plain vanilla Greataxe wielding Barbarian, popping rage as often as possible. Mid-40s AC? Not really gonna be happening.

Which is fine. It works for Barbarians. They're ok without the AC. My experience has shown me that Fighters and Barbarians arrive at the same place (SLASH that demon to shreds!) but via slightly different paths. It's kind of fun.

Venar
04-04-2008, 02:59 AM
I'd be curious, how would high AC compare to using, say, a fearsome armor + a 2h Paralyzer.
Can you take less damage then using a 2h Paralyzer + fearsome?