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Eregion2
02-05-2008, 10:40 PM
I've seen several people in the last few days complaining about repair costs from deaths; I've died more times than usual since the update just because I'm bored at odd times of the day and I end up trying to solo something I really shouldn't. And in all honesty, repair costs are a drop in the bucket. I'm averaging 160-200pp per repair; I could pay that off with what my L3 can loot if I wanted to. I understand it's different with players who have higher-grade equipment, but at the same time those same players have enough money that I can't imagine they'd be in any position different than the one I'm in right now.

I'm making this post partially as a rant because I think the negative experience penalty was just a hair short of infinitely better than this system, but at the same time so many people agree with the way things are now that I feel like I must be missing something blatantly obvious that should make me want to be able to die and not give a darn.

What am I missing? Seriously, I don't care about dying anymore because I can easily afford the death tax when I haven't even been playing for six weeks yet. Is that all death is? You get a few penalties for sixty seconds after resurrecting and give an NPC vendor somewhere a tip for his services? DDO is a great game, in my opinion there are none better, but I honestly don't understand this at all.

Pellegro
02-05-2008, 10:46 PM
The XP penalty was harsher no doubt. But it made rerolling and leveling up that much more of a grind.

The new penalty will help reign in the economy a bit by making quests maybe 20-30% less profitable, while making rerolling a bit more palatable (since most folks want to advance to max lvl as fast as possible).

Apparently, Turbine also received feedback from more casual players that the xp hit made the game feel like a hamster wheel. If you play just a few hours a week and had a bad run, you didn't really feel like you were advancing much (if at all).

sirgog
02-05-2008, 11:01 PM
I found the old penalty was negligible until level 10, at which point it was quite a pest and a strong disincentive to dying until level 14.4, after which it became irrelevant.

The new one is near to nothing until level 13 or so, when you start getting your top-end gear.

GlassCannon
02-05-2008, 11:09 PM
It's lost its thrill.

I DO mind coming back from death though. I mind it A LOT. In fact I rather hate it.

Impaqt
02-05-2008, 11:14 PM
So you say the death penalty doesnt bother you when your soloing? Your Kidding.. you mean, Dying.. Recallign out.. Waiting for the death penalty to reset then going back in isnt a big deal?

Shocking...

/Sarcasm Off

the death penalty was supposed to be lighter for Soloist.. ad it is... Die 3-4 times in a quest and see how effective you are and how much your party members like you

parvo
02-05-2008, 11:17 PM
I've seen several people in the last few days complaining about repair costs from deaths; I've died more times than usual since the update just because I'm bored at odd times of the day and I end up trying to solo something I really shouldn't. And in all honesty, repair costs are a drop in the bucket. I'm averaging 160-200pp per repair; I could pay that off with what my L3 can loot if I wanted to. I understand it's different with players who have higher-grade equipment, but at the same time those same players have enough money that I can't imagine they'd be in any position different than the one I'm in right now.

I'm making this post partially as a rant because I think the negative experience penalty was just a hair short of infinitely better than this system, but at the same time so many people agree with the way things are now that I feel like I must be missing something blatantly obvious that should make me want to be able to die and not give a darn.

What am I missing? Seriously, I don't care about dying anymore because I can easily afford the death tax when I haven't even been playing for six weeks yet. Is that all death is? You get a few penalties for sixty seconds after resurrecting and give an NPC vendor somewhere a tip for his services? DDO is a great game, in my opinion there are none better, but I honestly don't understand this at all.

If you want to play with people who care about death, play permadeath. Check out Mortal Voyage or any other open PD guild. Check the link in my signature. (As soon as the webmaster pays the bill again that is :)

Brianius
02-05-2008, 11:40 PM
I recently did the colecence chamber with a bad cleric a second time(first time was a blast) aand one bad cleric cost me 126000 gold now for some they consider this chunk change but for me i host events down on ghallanda so i give away ALOT of stuff and it looks like im gonna have to cut back on my events before i even got restarted. i used to have about 30k plat hanging around in my inventory just for pots arrows componets and stuff but on avarage lately i have had 100 plat not 100 thougsand just 100. its notlike i dont self heal either all my guys carry pots and/or wands but even now its becomeing a strech. i miss xp debt at least i caould get ahead that way not sure making people who solo wear nothing and have no way to support yourself is a good idea.

dameron
02-05-2008, 11:58 PM
The original death penalty drove people away from the game.

Hell, making it difficult for casual players to advance their characters almost killed the game.

Turbine saw this and reduced, then eliminated the xp penalty.

Good. It's one of the best decisions Turbine's made in two years of development.

Naso24
02-06-2008, 02:33 AM
I prefer the equipment damage to XP loss. As long as I can make more money than I sink in a quest, I am making progress.

The only thing I really hate is the effect on dragon armor. It is a real pain to repair. Would be kinda cool if death penalty damage went away the same way XP debt did. If dragon armor was 2-3X more expensive to repair at normal vendors, that would be okay too.

Another option, given the demand, is place a few dragonscale repair guys in Meridia. The relics would be a pain, but at least I could stock them up for use and not have such a timesink.

GlassCannon
02-06-2008, 04:10 AM
The original death penalty drove people away from the game.

Hell, making it difficult for casual players to advance their characters almost killed the game.

Turbine saw this and reduced, then eliminated the xp penalty.

Good. It's one of the best decisions Turbine's made in two years of development.

Failing a quest because everyone has temporary negative levels to such an extent that nobody can even stay up to fight the boss, or make it past said scenario(whatever... invisible raise dead machine helping out)... are a serious irritant. You fail a quest by having to re-enter. You abandon a quest(and pray to Dolurrh that everyone involved is assaulted by the Devourer or whatever obscure something, and utterly and brutally hatefully bitterly tormentously destroyed in the most painful and vile manner) by having that floating golden cup over your head say "you faild... durr derp derp durr derp durrh! Buh-bye." and kick you out of the quest.

The only exceptional mechanic I like is the new raid The Shroud. You die, the party continues without you. If they complete their area, you get resurrected(true) and may continue with them as normal.

Yes, you can fail a raid because the cleric can't save against the main boss' AoE small damage attack that requires you to roll a 2 or better on because he has to roll a 14 or better due to a miscalculation by negative levels, and the whole raid fails because of that problem.

I personally find it extremely irritating to have to *wait* idle while my negative levels slowly fade.


Try it QA Team: you must remain completely idle upon death until the penalty wears off. You must not min/max and your gear needs to be mediocre. No, you can't have potions. In fact your character has been Repair bill'd to poverty and you have 14 PP left. Go die a lot on a "loot run" on Elite. /invulnerable off. 1 cleric and 1 cleric only. No Heal scrolls, but he/she can have wands, and must carry at least 26 Divine Vitality clickables for your caster type(Wizard 13/Rogue 1) that for some reason can't memorize any Crowd Control. This kind of thing happens, and if you step off with neg lvls, you die again. Party makeup should probably be: Rogue 14.1(Halfling, Trapsmith), Wizard 13/Rogue1.1(Human for some reason), Ranger 12/Fighter 2.2(Elf, 28 point dualwielder with 34 AC... with Barkskin, 29 without), Cleric 11/Sorc1/Barbarian2.0(just levelled... yes, has 27 DVs... but how!?), afk party member the lead refuses to drop, and ends up timing out 30 minutes into the quest, but the party lead will not fill the spot back up... and finally you, the two handed fighting battle bard(ftr1/bard) that for some reason accidently sold your only shield. Your AC cannot exceed 31 and you are out of potions due to a tough run of luck with your alts(out of funds). This is a "loot run". It's Elite. Keep that in mind. You are very concerned about getting the most XP out of it due to the first time 50% bonus. The quest name is: Rainbow in the Dark. Equipment cannot exceed minimum level 10, or minimum level 8 with race restriction. No slaying or instakill weaponry, and only one Greater Bane weapon. If you want a Stat Damager, it must be on a critical hit of 19-20 only(Puncturing, Enfeebling... no wounders, no maladroit etc). Spell Points must last until the shrine, then for the rest of the quest afterward. No recalling/resing out. Simulate some lag during combat too to get a feal for the realism of it all. When two gnolls come at you at the same time, you need to have a small 0.2 second lag spike, and when you paralyze(assuming you choose one) them they have to slide away from you as if moving or in whatever direction for at least 1 full second. Why is a party of average level 14 in a level 16 instance? I don't know. It happens.

Scenario loaded. Perform please. Remember: On Raise/Resurrect, you must remain idle(in place) until the sickness is gone(to properly simulate the feeling I and a few others get).

Eregion2
02-06-2008, 08:07 AM
So you say the death penalty doesnt bother you when your soloing? Your Kidding.. you mean, Dying.. Recallign out.. Waiting for the death penalty to reset then going back in isnt a big deal?

Shocking...

/Sarcasm Off

the death penalty was supposed to be lighter for Soloist.. ad it is... Die 3-4 times in a quest and see how effective you are and how much your party members like youI don't leave and re-enter quests; I dislike the whole mentality of "beat half of it, recall and recharge, go in and beat the rest up to the boss, recall and recharge, go back in and beat the boss, you win" <-- that's not winning. :p If I die it's cool, it means I died and I can come back and give it another shot later.


The XP penalty was harsher no doubt. But it made rerolling and leveling up that much more of a grind.

The new penalty will help reign in the economy a bit by making quests maybe 20-30&#37; less profitable, while making rerolling a bit more palatable (since most folks want to advance to max lvl as fast as possible).

Apparently, Turbine also received feedback from more casual players that the xp hit made the game feel like a hamster wheel. If you play just a few hours a week and had a bad run, you didn't really feel like you were advancing much (if at all).I can understand both those points; but I disagree with the premise somewhat. 1) Dropping the income from quests will hurt casual players more than it hurts others, so it's a trade for a lesser evil in any case. 2) That's why I'd like Turbine to create more solo-content instead of reversing the entire system. Equipment damage is a good money-sink where the economy is concerned but relating it to a death penalty doesn't really add up much.

[eaten by cube NOM NOM NOM]


If you want to play with people who care about death, play permadeath. Check out Mortal Voyage or any other open PD guild. Check the link in my signature. (As soon as the webmaster pays the bill again that is :)I'll probably follow up on that since that's pretty much how I play already. :)

Pellegro
02-06-2008, 11:44 AM
Good points Eregion, but I don't understand the below:


Dropping the income from quests will hurt casual players more than it hurts others, so it's a trade for a lesser evil in any case.

If a casual player makes 10,000pp a week from quests, and the death penalty now reduces that by 20%, they lose 2,000PP/week.

A 24/7 player may make 100,000pp a week from quests. The death penalty (assuming 20%) costs them 200,000PP/week.

Its a progressive system - the more you quest, the more you make, the higher the tax (assuming deaths stay constant based on amount you play).

That said, if casual players die more, their tax (as a percentage) is higher. But I think thats why we're seeing normal becoming much softer and forgiving ...

Eregion2
02-06-2008, 11:55 AM
Good points Eregion, but I don't understand the below:



If a casual player makes 10,000pp a week from quests, and the death penalty now reduces that by 20%, they lose 2,000PP/week.

A 24/7 player may make 100,000pp a week from quests. The death penalty (assuming 20%) costs them 200,000PP/week.

Its a progressive system - the more you quest, the more you make, the higher the tax (assuming deaths stay constant based on amount you play).

That said, if casual players die more, their tax (as a percentage) is higher. But I think thats why we're seeing normal becoming much softer and forgiving ...Sorry I didn't explain that better. :) Literally, as you pointed out, you'd lose more money the more active you are, both through more deaths and by the fact that your equipment is probably higher quality and will cost more to repair. At the same time though, as you pointed out, your income is much higher to compensate.

Casual players who don't play as much already don't earn at as high a rate as other players, so further decreasing the income from quests will hurt them more than it would hurt those who play more often, simply in reference the quantity of pp earned within a given period. If you earn 10Kpp and pay out 20%, you're down to 8Kpp per week. However, if you earn 100Kpp and pay out 20%, you're still left with 80Kpp, which is literally incomparable to the hypothetical 8Kpp our casual player has earned even with the death penalty, which is why I say it's hurting casual players more than those who play more often even though it's only a 2Kpp reduction.

Pellegro
02-06-2008, 12:07 PM
So you're saying that money is just generally more important to casual players as they have less of it, so when they lose 100pp it stings alot more than the powergamer losing even 1,000pp ...

I can accept that.

I really don't know how it will all play it. In theory, I think the value of money will increase, and you will see more choices having to be made.

Currently, I play alot and I keep all my characters very well stocked (my sorc carries like 15, maybe more, stacks of 50+ scrolls; my ranger has a virtual apothecary of pots; my cleric ... well, he doesn't count). I also give away to guildies nearly all of my great loot that I don't use (and in fairness get alot back). I am also lazy when selling stuff - I seldom AH it ... indeed, I seldom bother with brokers. I just pawn it off on the nearest bartender. Up to now, I was able to do this and hover around always having about 150k PP total.

Now, I'm down to about 90kPP total, and its clear that I'm not going to be able to continue in my old ways. I'm fine with that, however. I'll just have to start spending a little more time getting "full value" for my stuff - using the brokers, using the AH, etc. But in fairness I can see how some people would prefer money not to matter as well.

One side effect - I predict shortly that prices on the AH will come down to more reasonable levels. I hope, that is.

Borrigain
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
.......


Try it QA Team: you must remain completely idle upon death until the penalty wears off. You must not min/max and your gear needs to be mediocre. No, you can't have potions. In fact your character has been Repair bill'd to poverty and you have 14 PP left. Go die a lot on a "loot run" on Elite. /invulnerable off. 1 cleric and 1 cleric only. No Heal scrolls, but he/she can have wands, and must carry at least 26 Divine Vitality clickables for your caster type(Wizard 13/Rogue 1) that for some reason can't memorize any Crowd Control. This kind of thing happens, and if you step off with neg lvls, you die again. Party makeup should probably be: Rogue 14.1(Halfling, Trapsmith), Wizard 13/Rogue1.1(Human for some reason), Ranger 12/Fighter 2.2(Elf, 28 point dualwielder with 34 AC... with Barkskin, 29 without), Cleric 11/Sorc1/Barbarian2.0(just levelled... yes, has 27 DVs... but how!?), afk party member the lead refuses to drop, and ends up timing out 30 minutes into the quest, but the party lead will not fill the spot back up... and finally you, the two handed fighting battle bard(ftr1/bard) that for some reason accidently sold your only shield. Your AC cannot exceed 31 and you are out of potions due to a tough run of luck with your alts(out of funds). This is a "loot run". It's Elite. Keep that in mind. You are very concerned about getting the most XP out of it due to the first time 50% bonus. The quest name is: Rainbow in the Dark. Equipment cannot exceed minimum level 10, or minimum level 8 with race restriction. No slaying or instakill weaponry, and only one Greater Bane weapon. If you want a Stat Damager, it must be on a critical hit of 19-20 only(Puncturing, Enfeebling... no wounders, no maladroit etc). Spell Points must last until the shrine, then for the rest of the quest afterward. No recalling/resing out. Simulate some lag during combat too to get a feal for the realism of it all. When two gnolls come at you at the same time, you need to have a small 0.2 second lag spike, and when you paralyze(assuming you choose one) them they have to slide away from you as if moving or in whatever direction for at least 1 full second. Why is a party of average level 14 in a level 16 instance? I don't know. It happens.

Scenario loaded. Perform please. Remember: On Raise/Resurrect, you must remain idle(in place) until the sickness is gone(to properly simulate the feeling I and a few others get).

Ummm.....if you only have 14pp, then what the HECK are you doing in Rainbow on Elite?

Take yourself out of the Vale and get back to Stormreach and do some easy stuff to pad your account back to manageable levels. If you're broke and out there, it's not the dev's fault, it's yours. Take responsiblity for YOUR actions and quit blaming the dev's for everything.

/sheesh.

Borr.

Milolyen
02-06-2008, 01:03 PM
So you say the death penalty doesnt bother you when your soloing? Your Kidding.. you mean, Dying.. Recallign out.. Waiting for the death penalty to reset then going back in isnt a big deal?

Shocking...

/Sarcasm Off

the death penalty was supposed to be lighter for Soloist.. ad it is... Die 3-4 times in a quest and see how effective you are and how much your party members like you

I would like you about the same as I did before the change ... it depends on what is going on. If we out in vale and goofing off and you die a few times I could not care less and would prolly laugh. Now if we are in a quest and I am needing to log soon and you die several times due to player error and being dumb then we gonna have problems. I have always been big on playing as a team and using tactics I mean real tactics not zerging (okay sometimes zerging is a valid tactic but NOT ALL THE TIME and only if everyone knows what they are doing).


Ummm.....if you only have 14pp, then what the HECK are you doing in Rainbow on Elite?

Take yourself out of the Vale and get back to Stormreach and do some easy stuff to pad your account back to manageable levels. If you're broke and out there, it's not the dev's fault, it's yours. Take responsiblity for YOUR actions and quit blaming the dev's for everything.

/sheesh.

Borr.

Took the words right out of my mouth there Borr. If you don't know how to do it or can't afford to do it ... then go in on NORMAL or go run something else till you can afford to. Find yourself low on cash ... take a little extra time to go sell to brokers or on ah instead of the barkeep. You don't have to sell your stuff for top plat on AH either ... go ahead and undercut the other weapons on the ah specially if you where just going to sell it to the barkeep anyways ... will pretty much always get more if it sells on the AH.

If you find yourself dieing alot ... take the hint and learn your char better. Was on my ranger the other day and grouped with another ranger in ritual sacrifice (I think that is the name of the quest) I was useing all my wild empathies and improved wild empathies and noticed him not useing them at all. Made a comment like "I can't understand why more rangers don't use them" in a matter of fact style not to single him out. His reply "Because they are worthless and I don't want to waist a feat on them." I was STUNNED ... this was a lvl 15 full ranger has a know it all kind of attitude and yet had no clue about his own char. I see this ALL the time out there when I pug.

I am not directing this statement to anyone in particular but ... If this guy didn't know about a granted feat like wild impathy/improved wild impathy what don't you know about your char? Answer could be nothing or answer could be why you are dieing alot I personally don't know. One thing I do know is this mod has REALLY put bad players in the spot light. Before a really good player could pick up the slack of the others in the group but in the new content it really does show.

Milolyen

Emili
02-06-2008, 01:09 PM
Ummm.....if you only have 14pp, then what the HECK are you doing in Rainbow on Elite?

Take yourself out of the Vale and get back to Stormreach and do some easy stuff to pad your account back to manageable levels. If you're broke and out there, it's not the dev's fault, it's yours. Take responsiblity for YOUR actions and quit blaming the dev's for everything.

/sheesh.

Borr.

Not the de'vs fault not exactly the player's fault... can be but usually the case of dying is a group fault when not just a bad die roll one a save. My experience people die from lack of quest knowledge as a group, healing classes not watching those who cannot heal as readily and general strategy the group is attempting. When it comes to party wipes following thru for the complete or the decision to pack it in is a group decision - truth is every one of these quests in ddo is completeable by any group dynamic baring the new dependency rogues in quests outside the vale. An individual may look at the situation and decide to abandon the group... that of course comes with bad stipulations as everyone else in that group then views you as a quiter - when the going gets tough ______ gets running. The quiter is a bad player... Thus it comes down to looking at the group you're joining to begin with much more carefully.

Talon_Moonshadow
02-06-2008, 02:36 PM
For me, the repair costs have been low.....usually far lower than the loot money I get selling loot to the general vendor.

The adjustments I have made have been two-fold..................repair as soon as possible......no matter what.

And stop wearing my Dragon Scale armor. :)
This last one saddens me to no end and makes the game a lot less fun.......but the alternative is to do two or three Gianthold quests for every two quests I do in the Vale........possibly greater then that if I want to do hard or elite quests......

The death penalty and Dragon armor do not mix well.......and makes me very sad.....plz fix.

Zenako
02-06-2008, 02:47 PM
Improved Wild Empathy is really nice. When my Ranger is running in the Vale, pick up a couple of nice Twilight Lions (CR15's by the way), along with a summoned lioness and I can have my own pack of mobs. Makes those 3 rogue levels a lot nicer when I close to melee something one of my pets is playing with. It also gives the mobs another target to worry about, instead of always picking on me. 5 minutes of that animal working with you, does not get dispelled, or broken. Nice...and very underused. I used to use it out in Axtaria's island all the time as well.

Taojeff
02-06-2008, 03:03 PM
I have remained silent since I responded to a similar uproar on risia about the death penalty.

Its very simple.

If you die a great deal you should examine yours and your parties play style. I myself, die very rarely, and typically only in raid. The only quest I can remember dying multiple times in recently was running with the devils elite. And you know why? Because we were running it sans cleric on elite no less. :D It was a blast. But seriously. I have been averaging about 20k pp from selling vendor trash a day. And I am not really questing hard. Here are some hints to make you a better player.

- Bring lots of wands and potions (all kinds)
- Communicate with your party
- Don't Zerg
- Rogues are your friends (cept enemy ones of course)
- Keep the cleric in site.
- Use scouts
- Plan ahead
- Use the Terrain
- Run like hell when appropriate

Really I what I think it amounts to is that a great deal of players are lazy and want many things handed to them. It is a game, it has degrees of difficultly that increase with level. By level 16 or so you should be able to play this game.

I am tired of hearing all the wusses complain about things being to hard or harsh. LEARN TO PLAY BETTER!!!!!

Nuff said.

Taojeff
02-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Improved Wild Empathy is really nice. When my Ranger is running in the Vale, pick up a couple of nice Twilight Lions (CR15's by the way), along with a summoned lioness and I can have my own pack of mobs. Makes those 3 rogue levels a lot nicer when I close to melee something one of my pets is playing with. It also gives the mobs another target to worry about, instead of always picking on me. 5 minutes of that animal working with you, does not get dispelled, or broken. Nice...and very underused. I used to use it out in Axtaria's island all the time as well.

btw, I do this too. It works great. Nice to see more people using this undervalued skill.

Zenako
02-06-2008, 03:10 PM
btw, I do this too. It works great. Nice to see more people using this undervalued skill.

Well since a lot of my low level casters would always focus Summon Monster spells (especially useful when solo or in small parties) I got very used to having expendable allies on my side at all times. Even my pure rogue still holds onto her Scorpion Staff for that 1/rest Scorpion to help. The animals in the game have super SPOT skills, maybe even better than my ranger (who is often running with something in the low 50's) which makes it easy to scout out or sense the enemy. One big tactical change in the vale is that many of the mobs teleport, making ranged attacks more problematic, but also easier to keep up since you do not have to move, just keep aiming and firing. Ah well, know what your character can do and make use of it.

HumanJHawkins
02-06-2008, 03:15 PM
I recently did the colecence chamber with a bad cleric a second time(first time was a blast) aand one bad cleric cost me 126000 gold

Lol. I'm sure there is a Cleric somewhere saying, "That barbarian cost me 100,000 gold because he couldn't kill stuff fast enough.. Dang noob!" It sucks when any party member can't play as well as you, but PVP only exists in the taverns. I don't think it is possible that some other toon cost you 126000 gold (if you are talking about death penalty).

Cheers!

Borrigain
02-06-2008, 03:21 PM
Not the de'vs fault not exactly the player's fault... can be but usually the case of dying is a group fault when not just a bad die roll one a save. My experience people die from lack of quest knowledge as a group, healing classes not watching those who cannot heal as readily and general strategy the group is attempting. When it comes to party wipes following thru for the complete or the decision to pack it in is a group decision - truth is every one of these quests in ddo is completeable by any group dynamic baring the new dependency rogues in quests outside the vale. An individual may look at the situation and decide to abandon the group... that of course comes with bad stipulations as everyone else in that group then views you as a quiter - when the going gets tough ______ gets running. The quiter is a bad player... Thus it comes down to looking at the group you're joining to begin with much more carefully.

True, but the point I was trying to make was about the money, not the dying.

It's like: "well baby, I have $14 in my wallet, let's go to a ritzy swank restaurant." :eek: And now I can't pay. Should I "blame" the restaurant for it's $40 entrees?

But yes, dying happens. Heck, first day I was down 30kPP. But a week later, I was hardly incurring any costs (couple hundred each run...maybe). Comes with playing smarter and learning the quests and techniques that "work". However, if it had happened to the point of breaking the bank, then I would have to think that maybe I shouldn't jump right back out there knowing that with 14pp to my name, if we have a not-so-good run, I won't be able to "pay my bills". So instead of laying blame on the "dev's" for "the death tax" (lol :D), maybe "I" should re-evaluate why I'm broke, adjust "my" style, and go do some PoP runs. And if I'm afraid PoP will break me, well, Goodblades gives cash too. ;) After all, the vale will still be there tomorrow.


It all comes down to: Adapt, overcome and evolve, or go the way of the dinosaurs......it's the way the of the universe, :D
Borr.

Milolyen
02-06-2008, 03:21 PM
btw, I do this too. It works great. Nice to see more people using this undervalued skill.

Ya both wild impathy and improved wild impathy has never left my hot bars and I use it every chance I get. Those cats and doggies are great pets and the charm lasts longer than any of the other charms in the game. Not to mention those fiendish kitties trip even the named devils and orthons on a regular basis makeing them damn near invaluable allies. Their dc's to save verse either of them are so low they pretty much never save either. Only issue I have is if when they are running at you and you try and charm and get that damn "must be faceing it" issue.

Milolyen

liamfrancais
02-06-2008, 03:30 PM
The original death penalty drove people away from the game.

Hell, making it difficult for casual players to advance their characters almost killed the game.

Turbine saw this and reduced, then eliminated the xp penalty.

Good. It's one of the best decisions Turbine's made in two years of development.

WoW you really feel this way that the xp debt drove people away. I don't know I play just about everyday from 9 pm till maybe 12am does that make me more then a casual gamer. I never had a hard time leveling up a character. I do find the 7-10 levels slow because either the quests in that range take to long or its higher levels looking for favor not xp, but never had a problem getting xp lost back. I didn't dislike the old system it will take time to get used to the new system and if anything it has made my game play more cautious. I use a shield alot more with my barbarian then I do my greataxe now if I could just get my hands on a banisher that would be sweet.

Vormaerin
02-06-2008, 10:21 PM
The Devs had said that they got a lot of feedback from new players and exit surveys about how the xp debt made a lot of people feel like they were treading water or sinking. It was especially bad for the lvl 10+ crowd that only played a couple quests a week. A bad run could easily wipe out their entire week's xp.

There was also some suggestion that the old system wouldn't continue to scale effectively (what, you start losing 10k xp per death at higher levels?) and the recurring nuisance that capped characters had no death penalty at all.

Plus, this does help restrain the economy somewhat, as people are earning less money.

Eregion2
02-07-2008, 05:25 PM
The Devs had said that they got a lot of feedback from new players and exit surveys about how the xp debt made a lot of people feel like they were treading water or sinking. It was especially bad for the lvl 10+ crowd that only played a couple quests a week. A bad run could easily wipe out their entire week's xp.

There was also some suggestion that the old system wouldn't continue to scale effectively (what, you start losing 10k xp per death at higher levels?) and the recurring nuisance that capped characters had no death penalty at all.

Plus, this does help restrain the economy somewhat, as people are earning less money.Good points, I guess that explains it. I still would have preferred tweaks though. :(