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Largo_Kyber
02-04-2008, 04:45 PM
Really dissappointing that obscene amounts of time went into new spells/enhancements/abilities for certain classes with Mods 4, 5, & 6 and literally nothing has been done for fighters. Hit lvl 16 last night and got the same crappy enhancements and feats. The biggest benefit of leveling a fighter is the 20-30 extra HP's. What happened to Sup 2 weapon fighting?

It's really bad when on the LFM panel there are "No gimped fighters allowed" messages. C'mon give my fighter something to look forward to, at least promise us that new feats/enhancements/ or something is on the way. We may be simple minded brutes but c'mon Turbine throw us a bone.

Shaamis
02-04-2008, 04:49 PM
What's a gimped fighter?

Oh, and on topic, i was wondering if we would get fighter Stregth IV, but i guess Strength stats are high enough as is.....

well, have every other class got enhancement love yet? I think rogues are the last, so it should be fighters turn again soon.

Largo_Kyber
02-04-2008, 04:51 PM
A gimped fighter is pretty much ANY fighter. A dwaven barb is now the preferred tank.

Angelus_dead
02-04-2008, 04:54 PM
Yes fighters need at least some minimal boosts given to them. Fighter 12 gives you Greater Weapon Specialization, but additional fighter levels need an improvement so there's some sensible reason to take them. Right now, a fighter12 is much smarter to take his next 4 levels as barb, paladin or even ranger. That's right, even RANGER levels would make you fight better than 4 more of fighter... that's just enough to cast Ram's Might, giving you +3 damage and +1 hit.

I like the idea of the Overpowering Attack feature from PHB2, which is in a thread here.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=127204

It would be a good start, but there's a lot of other cool feats they could work out as options for fighters, with a little more work.

Beherit_Baphomar
02-04-2008, 05:05 PM
What's a gimped fighter?

A fighter.

The_Phenx
02-04-2008, 05:22 PM
A gimped fighter is pretty much ANY fighter. A dwaven barb is now the preferred tank.

Chuckle...Halfling twf fighters rule...I out dps silly stubby greatax dwarven barbarians all the time. Oh and I can heal myself... :D

And on topic... I know they didn't put in superior.. but its supposed to be coming in mod 6.1 be patient.

I still picked up and additional +1 bab at 15 and 16... additional +2 th back from oversize twf... and another +1 from strength improvements.

If you ask me +5 th and +3 damage with X hitpoints isnt too shabby...

KoboldKiller
02-04-2008, 05:34 PM
I guess I am missing something here. Why is it a pure fighter is gimped?

The_Phenx
02-04-2008, 05:48 PM
Cause people think a greatax weilding barbarian is the only dps build worth doing....

to them I ask...

Hows that 5th swing workin out for ya?

Seriously tho who cares who wins as long as its me.

Largo_Kyber
02-04-2008, 10:19 PM
I guess I am missing something here. Why is it a pure fighter is gimped?

Well, that discussion is really not what I intended. I simply want the devs to know that I am not satisfied looking at the same list of enhancements and feats that I did four-six levels ago. Tons of dev time goes into new spells, songs, feats, and enhancements etc. for other classes but fighters seem to be left "as is". I just like to see a few new choices to specialize as a pure fighter.

I don't want to see this thread denegrate into the "Which class is gimped" discussion.

vyvy3369
02-04-2008, 10:34 PM
I simply want the devs to know that I am not satisfied looking at the same list of enhancements and feats that I did four-six levels ago.
That's the part that makes me very disappointed too. Back when the enhancements were re-done they claimed we'd be able to get everything we had before, but yet fighters still can't get as good of enhancements as we had back then. Since then I've LOST in every type of tactical DC, and the only gain worth mentioning is the Toughness enhancements that I'd gladly give up if there was anything else worth taking.

As for feats, I ended up taking two feats that I could have taken back during the Head Start if I'd thought they were worth taking. Sure I could've splashed something, but I'm still hoping they add something that will make it worth taking more than 12 levels.

The only gimped anything is a gimped player IMO, but it is sad to see nothing really new since what...level 12 and GWS?

Emili
02-05-2008, 06:44 AM
Of course this is the result... I've posted before in the other threads about fighters and other melee in general fall down the power curve, and people come back touting so what it's suppose to be that way and other silly remarks. The result it because a class is less efficient it gets played quite a bit less by it's account owner... sure thier are a few die-hard's like myself who truely like playing the class but we're far few between the norm of the populace. The general populace is a loot driven raid driven society. I was logged into the game the day of the mod and but two hours into it was getting tells to see if I was raid ready.


Note the bulk of levels 16's if you scroll thru this who page the ratio maintains the same most people played casters in the new mod up to this point... lack of class love, lack of class power, is one in the same and this is the result.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/bflat01/Wholist.jpg


And of course this perpetuates into my guild... and I admit I'm even guilty of it... It is so easy to level a caster type character it is pitiful whereas other classes must rely on groups a caster can pick up tons of slayer experience in minutes in comparison. They also still fare well on quests in fact due to death peanalty being a joke and shrine reusability on norm the sorc/wiz and cleric can reach level 16 within a few hours...

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t92/bflat01/Guildlist.jpg

People may tout so what? You're spoiling the game for yourself... well it comes down to this... people build a character to build it, you must level to build it, every level is more power in the character. This is what loot is about also... It's power. After you explore a dungeon once it's explored to you... after that point it becomes nothing but a way to gain power.

Aesop
02-05-2008, 06:55 AM
Well I think they are not working on anymore "class enhancments" I think next up is PrEs Prestige Enhancements.

I just wish they would take out the class requirements and make it feat and skill requirements instead. Although some PrEs might have Class Feature requirements like Trapfinding or Smite Evil or Rage. Anyway I hope they start moving in that direction. PrEs with Feat requirements would help fighters out a bunch. Actually check out the Dog House Thread, I know I posted some ideas for fighters Rogues Wizards Sorc Paladins and Rangers there. Barbs I don't play really and I haven't play a Bard to high enough levels yet to really make a good series of comments for them... but I loves me some bards so I hope they get some more of their spells soon.


Aesop

Angelus_dead
02-05-2008, 12:41 PM
I guess I am missing something here. Why is it a pure fighter is gimped?
Because a fighter blended with levels of any of the other warrior classes will do a better job at the core fighter mission: "Hit monsters with weapons", in addition to numerous other advantages.

Of course, it is necessary and correct that a multiclass character can get some benefits over a pure class... but there should be a tradeoff, he should give something up for those advantages. Look at these summaries:

Fighter16: Baseline

Fighter12/Barb4: +2/+3 att/dam from Rage (3x uses), +8 hp, DR 2/-, faster running, -1/+2 att/dam from Power Attack.

Fighter12/Paladin4: +1/+1 att/dam from Divine Favor, AC aura, save aura, save bonus, fear immunity, wand use

Fighter12/Ranger4: +1/+3 att/dam from Ram's Might, more Reflex saves, wand use, Bow str, TWF, diehard, -8 hp, +1/+5 att/dam against one kind of monster

So as you can see, fighter levels stop being useful at 12. From that point on there are no more fighter-only feats, and all the fighter gains from levels 13-16 is +2 bonus feat slots, which aren't helpful because there aren't enough different useful combat feats. By contrast, levels 1-4 in those other classes will improve your ability to hit and damage with weapons, in addition to numerous other benefits.

To fix this, Turbine could increase the number of combat feats that are worth taking, so that a Fighter16 build wasn't totally at a loss about what to train. They could both improve poor feats (Improved Sunder, Slicing Blow, Quickdraw, Two-Weapon Defense), and add new ones (Overpowering Attack, Crossbow Sniper, Two-Weapon Rend, Robliar's Gambit!, Martial Study!!)

The_Phenx
02-05-2008, 03:34 PM
Agreed there wasn't much love.

But honestly.

There will be.. there has to be. Every class has its mod.

The_Phenx
02-05-2008, 03:38 PM
It is so easy to level a caster type character it is pitiful whereas other classes must rely on groups a caster can pick up tons of slayer experience in minutes in comparison.


Umm my 12th level fighter could solo thru the desert quests... co6 at lvl 7 solo...at 16th im about to find out if i can do running with the devils... although the end fight might be a bit tricky

As previously stated its all in how you buildem...theres more than one way to skin a horse... umm additional cliche... :cool:

Emili
02-05-2008, 05:45 PM
Umm my 12th level fighter could solo thru the desert quests... co6 at lvl 7 solo...at 16th im about to find out if i can do running with the devils... although the end fight might be a bit tricky

As previously stated its all in how you buildem...theres more than one way to skin a horse... umm additional cliche... :cool:

I solo'd a lot of content on my melee's also... Emili solo'd the vons at lvl's 7-8. She solos dq pre-reqs when she has to but of course bring a caster along and it's twices as quick if not more. The point is though is many other classes can do it more efficiently and thus quicker. Time is a resource ... whether you think so or not. Time is buffs tiem is mana and the time it takes to kill mob directly affects healing expendeture. The reason people play casters more often is that they are far more versitile... vesitility is the the key to efficiency and of course DPS is as efficient as it gets... dead mob is the best way to control it. You want Elite quests done quick you can do it with a caster quick... on a fighter you're moving at a crawl unless you're in a group. You want 7500 orchard slayer - caster will do it, 7500 Vale slayers - caster again, GH slayer - caster again... in a mater of a 2 hours a caster can rack up 500k xp if they push them. Is a rank 80 fighter in my sig my main... not some bad build either for a pure she triple rages for +47 damages at +40 to-hit and maintains a decent ac and hp and saves in doing so.... she took a near 8 hours to get to rank 80... my wizard who really has no real loot on her took all but 1 and a half hours to reach 16.

I do not think you're going to grab 150k xp on that fighter of yours as quick as any caster can... that is my point. We wer're doing 7 minute runs of run with devil on elite ... was all thru sp.

Elleron
02-05-2008, 05:50 PM
What they did to enhance the fighter/melee types was to make long quests with a few shrines, bringing back the melee types back into the quests, w00t.

QuantumFX
02-05-2008, 05:53 PM
The Fighter love mod will be when the attack scaling goes to BAB/BAB/BAB-5/BAB-10/BAB-15. (Yes those are minuses not plusses.)

Until then, making the BAB/AC mechanism into a pointless d20 roll will continue to pull this game further from it's tabletop roots. :(