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Luthen
02-03-2008, 06:03 PM
I don't want this to be completely negative. Here goes. Why is it, when we ask for things, you assume you have to, or at least choose to, go all out and ignore things that seem obvious?

We wanted crafting. Great you've started a crafting system. We did not ask you to get rid of named loot dropping from quests and raids entirely.

We wanted PvP. You gave us a lack luster PvP system which never even got fixed and working properly.

I am not trying to say you always do it wrong. However sometimes you seem to take player suggestions to literally. Please give us back named loot. Keep the crafting system but the occasional named loot dropping from quests in the Vale or even the raid zones wouldn't kill you. Crafting is a great time sink, but by doing the new system the way you did you've made people who play DDO and actually enjoy a more instant gratification approach to questing out in the cold. A question was posed recently asking what could possibly be the reward for completing the new raid 20 times? I know we'll find out eventually but it seems pretty lame. Do +3 tomes even have a chance of being on the loot table for the new raid? Just some of my own thoughts.

I just wish you wouldnt implement game changes at the expense of other aspects of the game that were already enjoyed by many. Don;t be completely discouraged. The Vale is amazing and the new quests are finally a challenge on Elite. If the lag monster doesn't get you. ;)

MysticTheurge
02-03-2008, 08:05 PM
I just wish you wouldnt implement game changes at the expense of other aspects of the game that were already enjoyed by many.

There's a limited amount of development time that can be put into a module and still have them come out on a regular basis. It's fairly safe to assume that the people working on "crafting" were the item people. They only have so many hours to put into the update, and so yes, it's possible that some things have to be sacrificed in order to implement other things.

Anything that gets added is at the expense of something else. It's simply the nature of how development works. Personally, I think the crafting system more than makes up for the lack of named raid loot items (heck, it is named raid loot that you get to put together yourself). Sure, I might've liked to see some other named items drop in other places, but if they couldn't do that and the new crafting prototype, I'd rather they did what they did.

Look at it this way. There's already a ton of named loot in DDO. This is the first "crafting" that the game has seen.

dragnmoon
02-03-2008, 08:09 PM
There's a limited amount of development time that can be put into a module and still have them come out on a regular basis. It's fairly safe to assume that the people working on "crafting" were the item people. They only have so many hours to put into the update, and so yes, it's possible that some things have to be sacrificed in order to implement other things.

Anything that gets added is at the expense of something else. It's simply the nature of how development works.

*Off topic*

My question Is what Happened to the Enhacement/Spell developers :D;)... I know Deadly is the Spell Guy.. not sure who is doing enhancements now.

MysticTheurge
02-03-2008, 08:11 PM
My question Is what Happened to the Enhacement/Spell developers :D;)... I know Deadly is the Spell Guy.. not sure who is doing enhancements now.

Eladrin is actually the main guy on both of those things, I believe.

And it's not as though we didn't get any spells or enhancements. Just fewer than we've seen in past level-cap-increasing-Modules.

dragnmoon
02-03-2008, 08:19 PM
Eladrin is actually the main guy on both of those things, I believe.

And it's not as though we didn't get any spells or enhancements. Just fewer than we've seen in past level-cap-increasing-Modules.


ALLOT FEWER!!!!!! Mod 3 46 spells/ Mod 4 49 spells/ Mod 6 17 spells......... sorry for the thread higjack.

I have been under the assumption they were all Busy on the new systems..

Luthen
02-03-2008, 08:40 PM
ALLOT FEWER!!!!!! Mod 3 46 spells/ Mod 4 49 spells/ Mod 6 17 spells......... sorry for the thread higjack.

I have been under the assumption they were all Busy on the new systems..

I don't see this as a "highjack". Just another result of the "All or Nothing" design mentality it seems goes on. They put all their eggs into the "Crafting" basket and the rest of the mod suffers for it. Lack of spells, lack of enhancements, lack of quests (1 open zone, 5 quests, and a Raid), lack of named end rewards.

How truely difficult would it have been to slap a name on a +5 Mithril Fullplate of Invulnerability? Or maby a +5 Holy Cold Iron Bastardsword of Evil Outsider Bane. What about a Greater Potency VII dagger of Greater Arcane Lore. Things that would be level appropriate for this level mod and even story specific for the environment but using entirely existing effects and not assigning them in exotic combinations. Just some thoughts here.

Perhaps even generate some enhancements that follow similar lines as current ones but make them race restricted allowing for multi-class builds to make use of certain enhancements at a higher cost as their pure level counterparts. Whatever thoughts people have I am sure many could have been doable with minimal time spent by the Dev team.

And lets not forget the spells. So many spells they have access to from D&D that are not overpowered and have effects already in the game but they chose not to give us a wider variety for our casters? Simply lame.

Borror0
02-03-2008, 08:52 PM
And it's not as though we didn't get any spells or enhancements. Just fewer than we've seen in past level-cap-increasing-Modules.

Maybe less enhancements, overall, but much less post-previous-cap enhancements. Because, yeah, we got none.

Yes, not a single... for anyone of the nine classes. This is the part that I don't get. A few classes not getting any? Of course, a dead zone, a bit like an odd level for a fighter or level 20 on a rogue. But not a single one, for any class.. that means they didn't put any effort in it. Fighters are starving for new feats... and we got... three? And, of course, no STHF and STWF... a sad.

Angelus_dead
02-03-2008, 09:12 PM
[COLOR="Orange"]I don't see this as a "highjack". Just another result of the "All or Nothing" design mentality it seems goes on. They put all their eggs into the "Crafting" basket and the rest of the mod suffers for it. Lack of spells, lack of enhancements, lack of quests (1 open zone, 5 quests, and a Raid), lack of named end rewards.
The reduced number of quests isn't a "lack"- it's really a BIG improvement.

It shows that Turbine is paying some attention to DDO, and not throwing effort away building quests nobody will use. Mod5 had so-called "eleven" quests, but four of them (all level 11) are basically never, ever played. They took development time that could've been used to make Ascension Chamber work right.

Lorien_the_First_One
02-03-2008, 09:18 PM
There's a limited amount of development time that can be put into a module and still have them come out on a regular basis. It's fairly safe to assume that the people working on "crafting" were the item people. They only have so many hours to put into the update, and so yes, it's possible that some things have to be sacrificed in order to implement other things..

Eh, while they wouldn't have had time to invent another dragonscale type armor, it can't really take much to slap together items with existing bonus types.

MysticTheurge
02-03-2008, 09:30 PM
They put all their eggs into the "Crafting" basket and the rest of the mod suffers for it. Lack of spells, lack of enhancements, lack of quests (1 open zone, 5 quests, and a Raid), lack of named end rewards.

I suspect a lot of their eggs (especially the "Character Options" ones) are actually in the Monk basket.

And some other ones are in the "We're doing something big for the 2 year anniversary" basket.


Maybe less enhancements, overall, but much less post-previous-cap enhancements. Because, yeah, we got none.

Yes, not a single... for anyone of the nine classes.

Yeah, I'm not saying I really get that decision. And I kind of would've liked to see some 15/16 enhancements. And more spells. And more feats. But my point is, when you add big new systems to the game (like crafting or a new class), other things have to suffer simply because of the way things work.

They can either maintain the status quo, or they can try to make the game better. But doing the latter is sometimes going to involve little shake-ups in "the way things have always been."


Eh, while they wouldn't have had time to invent another dragonscale type armor, it can't really take much to slap together items with existing bonus types.

I find it hard to believe that even if they had just cobbled together 5-15 named items from pre-existing bonuses, there wouldn't still have been threads complaining about the dearth of named items in Mod 6.

Not to mention the fact that what people really want are cool named items they'll actually use. So you have to make them better than existing random items. Which means you need to make sure they're balanced, and level appropriate.

I suspect it's probably more work than we think.

Borror0
02-03-2008, 10:00 PM
But doing the latter is sometimes going to involve little shake-ups in "the way things have always been."

Maybe it's only me, but I've always thought adding a decent amoutn of feats and enhancements should always have been higher priority than a crafting system. IMO, the "way things have always been" not enough, so going under that is pretty silly... to me.

Luthen
02-03-2008, 10:41 PM
I find it hard to believe that even if they had just cobbled together 5-15 named items from pre-existing bonuses, there wouldn't still have been threads complaining about the dearth of named items in Mod 6.

Not to mention the fact that what people really want are cool named items they'll actually use. So you have to make them better than existing random items. Which means you need to make sure they're balanced, and level appropriate.

I suspect it's probably more work than we think.

I can't agree here MT. There are some items that are not "over powered" that you know where they are and can devote time to trying to attain them. Or at least know you can trade for them. Knowing that there's a potential for a named item in a particular chest or quest makes it more likely that those quests get run. It also fits in with story lines. Allowing for named items to drop from quests where you defeat a named boss at the end or during the quest at some point. Often times there is little trivia or flavor text on these items to explain where they came frokm or what they're made of to explain why it's so special. Now I could accept lowering the overall number of named items I guess. But again this goes back to the all or nothing theory. They either overwhelm with super powerful named items or a ton of named items OR they give us nothing. Why no happy middle ground? I would be interested to see what sort of named items might be in some hard to get to chests in the new content but aparently Turbine thinks it isn't worth it.

I will say this. I do like the obvious, to my thinking, thought that went into Mod 5 Raid end rewards knowing what they were planning for Mod 6. I mean tell me that this wasn't tailored for Mod 6:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/EnduringConviction.jpg

tekn0mage
02-03-2008, 10:57 PM
I suspect it's probably more work than we think.

Which is something we all realize, yet, don't have too much sympathy for.

When a company slims down staff or fails to increase staff when demand is high (whichever the case here, we don't know) it's their CHOICE. So no, not too hard to not shed sympathy for.

However, we do have some appropriate demands. What the OP says is spot-on the money. When we ask for greater challenge, they kick up the juice way too high. The trap on Goodblade's have a DC (to save) of 30. Not a 30 to disable, a 30 to SAVE. That would mean a starting save of 20, would only save half the time.

I don't know about you but that isn't fun.

Invalid_86
02-03-2008, 11:07 PM
I don't want this to be completely negative. Here goes. Why is it, when we ask for things, you assume you have to, or at least choose to, go all out and ignore things that seem obvious?

We wanted crafting. Great you've started a crafting system. We did not ask you to get rid of named loot dropping from quests and raids entirely.

We wanted PvP. You gave us a lack luster PvP system which never even got fixed and working properly.

I am not trying to say you always do it wrong. However sometimes you seem to take player suggestions to literally. Please give us back named loot. Keep the crafting system but the occasional named loot dropping from quests in the Vale or even the raid zones wouldn't kill you. Crafting is a great time sink, but by doing the new system the way you did you've made people who play DDO and actually enjoy a more instant gratification approach to questing out in the cold. A question was posed recently asking what could possibly be the reward for completing the new raid 20 times? I know we'll find out eventually but it seems pretty lame. Do +3 tomes even have a chance of being on the loot table for the new raid? Just some of my own thoughts.

I just wish you wouldnt implement game changes at the expense of other aspects of the game that were already enjoyed by many. Don;t be completely discouraged. The Vale is amazing and the new quests are finally a challenge on Elite. If the lag monster doesn't get you. ;)

So one raid/area has no named uberloot, instead trying a diiferent approach that allows you to customize your own nice gear. You can design your own supersword, it just won't have a name. Get over it.

A vocal minority asked for PvP in a game where it doesn't belong. Be glad you have what you do. Just walking around the streets randomly ganking people is not going to happen, neither is just constantly spamming people with challenge messages.

This isn't true crafting. True crafting will carry a whole pile of balance issues with it, and it would be better if the devs took their time with it if it is implemented.

Oh and I'm all for +3 tomes if they are ML 12+.

MysticTheurge
02-03-2008, 11:47 PM
There are some items that are not "over powered" that you know where they are and can devote time to trying to attain them. Or at least know you can trade for them. Knowing that there's a potential for a named item in a particular chest or quest makes it more likely that those quests get run. It also fits in with story lines. Allowing for named items to drop from quests where you defeat a named boss at the end or during the quest at some point. Often times there is little trivia or flavor text on these items to explain where they came frokm or what they're made of to explain why it's so special.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like named items too.

They're tons of fun (and handy to have in the game) for all the reasons you've listed above.

But many of the things you've got there are covered by the "crafting" system too. Known (or soon-to-be-known) quantities you can devote your time to trying to attain? Check. Potential for necessary items in certain chests causing quests/explorer zones to be run more? Check. Little bits of story, trivia, etc. that add extra flavor to the game? Check.

So basically, the crafting system does all the stuff you want named items to do, it just does them a bit differently.

Strykersz
02-04-2008, 03:52 AM
Eh, while they wouldn't have had time to invent another dragonscale type armor, it can't really take much to slap together items with existing bonus types.

New named items generally require art guy time. At a minimum, you need an icon for it. You'd like a new skin and if it is at all possible, a model. Art guy time is expensive.

Lorien_the_First_One
02-04-2008, 06:49 AM
New named items generally require art guy time. At a minimum, you need an icon for it. You'd like a new skin and if it is at all possible, a model. Art guy time is expensive.

Not all named items have unique art so that doesn't have to be true. They can (and have) used an existing skin and icon on some named items.

The_Ick
02-04-2008, 12:29 PM
IMO, i think the crafting system for the raid is a cool idea and a sufficient reward. No need for named items there. Yes it is different and yes it changes things up, but i think it is good to try new things sometimes. And it isn't like they changed all the other raids to work that way too.

I am a little disappointed that i haven't heard or seen any named items comes from the quests or the Vale. Sometimes those items can be a fun to "OWWW & AHHH" over. Not sure if that is what you where getting at Luth..

As for the overall idea behind your post, i think I am a little closer to Turbines side on this one. Not everythings is going to fit neatly into a perfect box while you are trying to grow and MMO. Players are always asking for new things and new MMO to compete with are being released everyday. They are probably adding features that weren't even thought about when they originally layout out the implimentation code. I think the devs have done a pretty good job of only changing existing code/logic when there is a real problem. Sure there have been some casualties, but for the most part the idea behind this game has never taken a step backwards.

The question that i wonder about is "How are they planning for the future from a design point of view?". My impression is that they recently spent a lot of time redoing some back end logic on quests, feats, enhancements, etc.. so that they could be more easily grown and expanded upon.

How far out into the future does their roadmap extend?
What new technologies are they looking at?
Are they building stronger tools that make it easier to add new content?
Bascially, is it easier for them to impliment new game logic today then it was 6 months ago.


Those are the telling questions, because those will control the speed of the forward growth of this game. We get answers to those questions, and the rest if just animation. (OK, well that may be a little over simplified) :D

Beherit_Baphomar
02-04-2008, 12:56 PM
Art guy time is expensive, so take named loot out?

We have a PROTOtype crafting system put in place, so take named loot out?

They all had to work really, really hard to put the prototype crafting in so take out named loot/spells?

*sigh*

Named loot is an awesome way to have quest run and run again. It stimulates trading, player interaction.

Yeah, we can make our own 'named loot' now, but thats not the point. I want a Bloodstone, I want a Sword of Shadows..not just an adamantine greatsword with an improved crit range, even if it had a bigger crit range Id still want to get the SoS.

Its part of the game, its part of the fun.

Dane_McArdy
02-04-2008, 01:04 PM
The point of module 6 is to create items. While you have to do quests over to get multiple items, at least each time you do a quest, or run the vale, you get something to that end. Same with the raid.

The chests in the quests seem to hav a wide level range, which is something we normally don't get. I suspect they range from level 10 to level 16 in possible loot. My level 15 +3 vorpal battleaxe is an example, but I've also pulled level 10 items that were vendor trash.

To me it seems that they built these quests to encourage working towards the good pay off, rather then just running the minimum of the quest to get the most.

You can't run in and avoid everything to get certain chests. Take Dust, you have to kill at least the first two named guys to get the keys to defend the Spider Queen, just to get a chest. and it's a low level chest, being just a wooden chest. You then have to complete the last part to get at least one chest, of higher level.

If you want all 3 chests at the end, you do have to do the all that is required to get that. Clearly not a loot run.

Chamber, not a loot run, because of all the running you need to do, but that end chest seems pretty good, seen a lot of good things come out of, like my vorpal.

However if they had put in more chests, named loot, and not have the number of chests depend on how what you do in the quest, they would quickly become loot runs, with out consideration to moving towards the raid and making your items. Which from what we are seeing, are pretty awesome.

In otherwords, if they had put all that in, it would weaken the reason for actually running those quests. Oh lets not do Chamber, it's to long and to much going up the shafts. Besides the named loot stinks for my class.

There are lots of people that feel loot is to free and fast in the game, and that everything becomes a loot run in the end. This isn't that game anymore, or at least module 6 isn't. I think it's refreshing. One weekend of playing has moved me well along the way to creating my first item.

dragnmoon
02-04-2008, 03:51 PM
This is not going to be a popular idea.. ..

But the New crafting System should have been put into a Mod where there is no Level increase..

There is too much of a lack of support in this mod for the level increase.. That should have been their priority.

The crafting system took away from being able to fully support the level increase...

Luthen
02-04-2008, 04:32 PM
The point of module 6 is to create items. While you have to do quests over to get multiple items, at least each time you do a quest, or run the vale, you get something to that end. Same with the raid.

The chests in the quests seem to hav a wide level range, which is something we normally don't get. I suspect they range from level 10 to level 16 in possible loot. My level 15 +3 vorpal battleaxe is an example, but I've also pulled level 10 items that were vendor trash.

To me it seems that they built these quests to encourage working towards the good pay off, rather then just running the minimum of the quest to get the most.

You can't run in and avoid everything to get certain chests. Take Dust, you have to kill at least the first two named guys to get the keys to defend the Spider Queen, just to get a chest. and it's a low level chest, being just a wooden chest. You then have to complete the last part to get at least one chest, of higher level.

If you want all 3 chests at the end, you do have to do the all that is required to get that. Clearly not a loot run.

Chamber, not a loot run, because of all the running you need to do, but that end chest seems pretty good, seen a lot of good things come out of, like my vorpal.

However if they had put in more chests, named loot, and not have the number of chests depend on how what you do in the quest, they would quickly become loot runs, with out consideration to moving towards the raid and making your items. Which from what we are seeing, are pretty awesome.

In otherwords, if they had put all that in, it would weaken the reason for actually running those quests. Oh lets not do Chamber, it's to long and to much going up the shafts. Besides the named loot stinks for my class.

There are lots of people that feel loot is to free and fast in the game, and that everything becomes a loot run in the end. This isn't that game anymore, or at least module 6 isn't. I think it's refreshing. One weekend of playing has moved me well along the way to creating my first item.

I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us? Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Don't get me wrong. The crafting system is definately going to be geared towards min max hardcore players. Not that it'll be impossible for the casual player to get items but certainly more costly. It'll be fun to have the +5 Vorpal Adamantine Shoehorn of DOOM that you can make for yourself. But where's the Hand of Vecna(sp?)? Not that I expect to see that particular item but I hope you get the idea of what I am getting at. Why were no named items placed in the Orchard or Vale but the Desert has a nice mix of them? I am not suggesting they put named items in every quest or chest but to put NO named items in any chests or quests is just not the best choice either.

MysticTheurge
02-04-2008, 05:03 PM
Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us?

But what's fun for each of us is going to vary greatly from player to player. And Turbine has to try to please us all.

Invalid_86
02-04-2008, 05:14 PM
I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us? Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.


Because the game has to be made and balanced for everyone, not just you.

Luthen
02-04-2008, 11:49 PM
But what's fun for each of us is going to vary greatly from player to player. And Turbine has to try to please us all.

Understood. Your statement supports my complaint 100% MT. Even though I don't think you saw it that way. If what's fun for each of us varies so drastically then why do a complete 180 degree swing with regards to loot? That isn't taking many people into account. It only takes those who enjoy crafting into account. I want crafting in the game. It's good all around for people. I persdonally don;t enjoy crafting though. But it is yet another aspect or diversion for players to have in the game so it's great to have. I don't want crafting to be the primary focus of an entire Mod at the expense of a system that wasn't broken in the first place. There isn't a good reason they couldn't have done some of both. Or even mostly crafting but also some named drops for the flavor at a bare minimum in the pre-raid quests or Vale.

This is Turbines typical M.O. Pervert the requests of the player base into some outrageous version of what they think we wanted. MMOs are, often, gear based games. DDO is this way as well. It just so happens that DDO also has better player interaction and gaming then the majority of other MMOs. I do not speak for the entire player base but I also don;t think I am 100% wrong. Why must it always be that Turbine thinks in order to give us something we ask for they have to take away something that many people enjoy?

Luthen
02-04-2008, 11:55 PM
Because the game has to be made and balanced for everyone, not just you.

Really? Not just me? Am I not one of their players too? And you need to explain to me how this is balanced:

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gogglesge6.jpg

Made and obtained in under a week of Mod 6 being released (and it is still upgradable). From running a raid which is not runnable by everyone out there. I can get through it. You may or may not but I know for sure many cannot and will not anytime soon. All I was asking for is level appropriate loot from quests in the game with already existing stats in some different combinations. Something they have been doing since day 1 and have decided to change 180 degrees away from that now? There is room for both in this game. Why create one at the expense of the other? It is not "balancing". in fact I argue that it is the opposite of "balancing".

Borror0
02-05-2008, 06:20 AM
But the New crafting System should have been put into a Mod where there is no Level increase..

There is too much of a lack of support in this mod for the level increase.. That should have been their priority.

Agreed on that dragnmoon, that is my opinion too.

studentx
02-05-2008, 06:34 AM
I have to say this is a huge mod:

1. A huge map.
2. Mobs with teleport abilities.
3. Atleast six new creature types and a few new classes for creatures.
4. 5 new dungeons.
5. One new Mod <---?got me =p
6. 8+ new spells
7. Three new specialization enhancement lines.
8. A new raid and no one has legitimately beaten the old one.
9. The new framework for crafting including some new items.
10. An attempt to fix archer.
11. An attempt to fix the invulnerable mobs, the ones running from you.
12. Trap changes.
13. Three new rogue abilities/feats.

I'm sure I'm missing several other things. This is a lot.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/01/28

Dane_McArdy
02-05-2008, 06:39 AM
I am very OK with the chests being difficult to get. Why remove the chance for a named reward though? This game has such a flimsy connection to D&D right now. Why remove the ability to attain items owned by bosses with special abilities? Isn't it up to us to decide what's fun for each of us?

First, this is not crafting. If you keep that mind set, you are missing a lot. The reward system is using the crafting model to allow players to make a unique end reward, for doing these quests. And they are going to be some of the best items in game todate. It's called incentive. To give players an incentive to focus on the new mechanic for your reward for these quests, they designed the quests to encourage it. Hence, no named items.

And, this is one module with this. There is no saying this going to be the standard from now on. Turbine doesn't tend to make all it's modules work exactly the same. Dessert had named items in chests. Orchard had you collect items for named rewards, and named items in quest chests. Module 6 is allowing you to make very powerful items. Not one, but as many as you want. Unique items. You can say that the ability to create an item no one else will have is the trade off for no named loot.


Why is it OK and defendable of Turbine to again decide how they want us to have fun? Sort of defeats the purpose.

Um, this is rather a far fetched idea, that they are forcing us to have only one kind of fun. They are trying to make a wide varity of different game mechanics and different ways of doing things and results. They decide how to have fun? If you only like named loot, there is enough in the game for those that are inclined towards that.

Not all content will appeal to all people, and to think Turbine should limit it's self to doing it's content a certain way, is the players trying to control the fun others might like to have.


Don't get me wrong. The crafting system is definately going to be geared towards min max hardcore players. Not that it'll be impossible for the casual player to get items but certainly more costly. It'll be fun to have the +5 Vorpal Adamantine Shoehorn of DOOM that you can make for yourself. But where's the Hand of Vecna(sp?)? Not that I expect to see that particular item but I hope you get the idea of what I am getting at. Why were no named items placed in the Orchard or Vale but the Desert has a nice mix of them? I am not suggesting they put named items in every quest or chest but to put NO named items in any chests or quests is just not the best choice either.

Again, see above why. People are going to be leaving the Module 6 content, in time, with unique items no one else will have. Items better then most named loot.

MysticTheurge
02-05-2008, 07:51 AM
Understood. Your statement supports my complaint 100% MT. Even though I don't think you saw it that way. If what's fun for each of us varies so drastically then why do a complete 180 degree swing with regards to loot?

Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

Overall, we have a lot of named items, and very few crafting systems. So if I like crafting and you want named items, then you're still way ahead of me in terms of fun.

Which I guess is why I don't have any problem with them devoting significant time and energy to the crafting system this module, even if it meant no new named items this time around.

Luthen
02-05-2008, 04:40 PM
Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

Overall, we have a lot of named items, and very few crafting systems. So if I like crafting and you want named items, then you're still way ahead of me in terms of fun.

Which I guess is why I don't have any problem with them devoting significant time and energy to the crafting system this module, even if it meant no new named items this time around.

I am also still ok with the mod being primarily focused on the new system. I think it's a good system and some insane stuff will come from it so the Elite twitch in me is covered. I just don;t like seeing something new done at the expense of something that was working. 0 new named items is just lame. I guess I am a minority but I am ok with being the vocal minority. Same as with hating the idea of a raid that can yield zero named raid loot as opposed to a system which would at least guarentee one item for someone so it isn't a complete waste. Like Ive said... they're always doing this "All or nothing" crud with Mods and it's annoying. (Which is what they did after Mod 5 by removing the Warded 2 loot chests)

Luthen
02-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Hmm, I guess I can kind of see that. But I guess my problem is that you're looking at one mod in a microscope.

"Question the answers" ~Mighty Mighty Bosstones

Invalid_86
02-05-2008, 06:25 PM
Really? Not just me? Am I not one of their players too? And you need to explain to me how this is balanced:

http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gogglesge6.jpg

Made and obtained in under a week of Mod 6 being released (and it is still upgradable). From running a raid which is not runnable by everyone out there. I can get through it. You may or may not but I know for sure many cannot and will not anytime soon. All I was asking for is level appropriate loot from quests in the game with already existing stats in some different combinations. Something they have been doing since day 1 and have decided to change 180 degrees away from that now? There is room for both in this game. Why create one at the expense of the other? It is not "balancing". in fact I argue that it is the opposite of "balancing".

These items should not have seen the light of day until we hit epic levels. But the fact that you can build something this "were they smoking crack?" overpowered really deflates any whining about not having named raid items in the raid. You aren't getting any sympathy here.

And it still doesn't mean that the whole game needs to change because you want more raid loot or because you don't think one raid is fun.

MysticTheurge
02-05-2008, 06:54 PM
0 new named items is just lame.

I guess I can see this.

Of course only a few level 8 spells is also "lame." And no 15/16 enhancements is too. And while I have yet to make it into the raid, the number of quests in this module seems kind of "lame" too.

I'm certainly enjoying module 6, but it seems like it's missing a lot of stuff that it could have and on that level I'm kind of disappointed with it.

Either they've got something amazingly huge up their sleeves for 6.1, or something caused them to not be able to put the same amount of effort into Mod 6 that they've put into past ones.

Luthen
02-05-2008, 07:36 PM
I guess I can see this.

Of course only a few level 8 spells is also "lame." And no 15/16 enhancements is too. And while I have yet to make it into the raid, the number of quests in this module seems kind of "lame" too.

I'm certainly enjoying module 6, but it seems like it's missing a lot of stuff that it could have and on that level I'm kind of disappointed with it.

Either they've got something amazingly huge up their sleeves for 6.1, or something caused them to not be able to put the same amount of effort into Mod 6 that they've put into past ones.

I understand that the crafting system was a huge undertaking. But seriously... you're right. This Mod is so minimal. When people can be flagged for a new raid in less then 8 hours of a Mod release and all the new content, minus the raid, is explored in that time as well then you have to question how much effort went into the Mod. The Mod seems to be a few quests and a raid built around a new crafting loot system. Once again an all or nothing proposition.