View Full Version : devs when you fix Defensive Roll, please also fix Defensive Roll

01-30-2008, 11:54 AM
Hi devs, when you fix the Defensive Roll feat so that it is allowed to be taken, please also fix the Defensive roll feat so that it's worthwhile to be taken.

Right now the feat triggers at 20% hp and has maybe a 30% chance (equal to your reflex) to take off 50% damage. Multiply it together, and that's like .2 * .3 * .5 = 3% defense.
A. If a rogue is at more than 20% hp, he can still die from one regular hit from a regular mob.
B. If a rogue is at under 20% hp, a half-damage hit from a regular mob will still almost always kill him.

Why would someone take this? I don't see any way to want it. Maybe the devs can fix it so that instead of triggering at 20%, it triggers at 20% hp OR if the attack you're hit with is enough to incap you. So a rogue with 50/200 hp left and is hit for 60 damage would have a 30% chance to take just 30 damage.

01-30-2008, 12:55 PM
It's really not that different from the D&D version

Defensive Roll (Ex)

The rogue can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the rogue can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the rogue must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the rogue’s evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Except it's not, you know, once per day.

01-30-2008, 01:32 PM
It's really not that different from the D&D version

Except it's not, you know, once per day.

It's not that great in PnP either... far too often that halved damage will still be enough, and when it isn't, the save DC is often too high to have a decent chance for it to work. What makes it at all worthwhile in PnP is that death is far more serious and anything that let's you avoid it helps. I'm not going to claim that DDO's version is useless, but while it would kick in often enough to save your hide a few times, ultimately I think nearly every rogue would be better served defensively by taking a toughness feat, if this option were available. Considering how fast the damage can come at you in DDO, I don't think that allowing a successful use of defensive roll to negate all damage from that attack would be too big a deal.

As a side note regarding the PnP version, I've always found daily limitations on extraordianry abilities to be difficult to rationalize. If it's not based on magical or psychic energy, why is it limited to once/day? In the case of venom or non-magical breath weapons it can make sense - after all, a creature's glands can produce only limited quanitites, but it's not like rogues develop a special "dodge adrenaline" that their bodies need 24 hours to replace.

01-30-2008, 02:08 PM
To be fair with the heavily inflated damage that we are taking the half damage from an attack is still pretty bad. Defensive Roll needs the extra ooomph!

01-30-2008, 02:14 PM
It's really not that different from the D&D version
Um? No, it is very different. If the DDO feat copied the feel of the PnP ability, it might be useful.

1. It has to trigger when the attack would bring you to 0 hp, not merely when you are already at under 20% hp. That way, it would work when you actually need it. Too many mobs can drop a rogue from 30% to dead in one hit.

2. It should be a reflex save, not a percentile equal to your reflex. To compensate for the max HD of DDO characters (which gives them around 2x total hp), the save DC should be computed as 1/2 of what it is in PnP.

3. Instead of uses per day, give it a cooldown time of once per 60 sec, or whatever seems appropriately powerful.