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Taojeff
01-30-2008, 08:57 AM
Take a close look at the eldritch crafting guide. That warhammer they made will give you +8 to dex total....+6 then two more on top.

BWAHAHAHAHH, you +6 items are **** now. Rush in and find out those new recipes.

Impaqt
01-30-2008, 08:59 AM
When we can craft Gloves and Boots with those properties I'll be excited... Stat bonus's on Weapons never go over too well.

ChildrenofBodom
01-30-2008, 09:00 AM
Take a close look at the eldritch crafting guide. That warhammer they made will give you +8 to dex total....+6 then two more on top.

BWAHAHAHAHH, you +6 items are **** now. Rush in and find out those new recipes.


Actually, it's +9 dex. If you read them it says that they stack with all dex enhancements except the same one. There is a +1 and a +2 that stack to a +3.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 09:01 AM
When we can craft Gloves and Boots with those properties I'll be excited... Stat bonus's on Weapons never go over too well.

they have stated that the raid items are not just weapons, so it will be a matter of figuring out how to make each type

KaKa
01-30-2008, 09:02 AM
Forget dex get me con or str :D

Saragon
01-30-2008, 09:05 AM
Where is this Eldrich crafting guide?

ChildrenofBodom
01-30-2008, 09:06 AM
Where is this Eldrich crafting guide?

http://www.ddo.com/articles/945

Ciaran
01-30-2008, 09:08 AM
When we can craft Gloves and Boots with those properties I'll be excited... Stat bonus's on Weapons never go over too well.

Psshh...obviously you never made that godly warhammer from BGII: SOA. ;):D

Wow, +8 to stats sounds frackin' ridiculous. Can't wait to find out some recipies!

+2 Dodge bracers with +8 STR? Okay, that might be a little crazy...but...damn...

llevenbaxx
01-30-2008, 10:05 AM
Psshh...obviously you never made that godly warhammer from BGII: SOA. ;):D

Wow, +8 to stats sounds frackin' ridiculous. Can't wait to find out some recipies!

+2 Dodge bracers with +8 STR? Okay, that might be a little crazy...but...damn...

Just what we needed, even more inflated numbers...:(

oronisi
01-30-2008, 10:26 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 10:29 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

you wold basically have to run that chracter for no xp through all the pre reqs then have all the items, it looks like some bind so you would have to waste a lot of time to and have patient guildies willing to take a lvl 8 into the raid over and over to get such a great weapon

Jay203
01-30-2008, 10:31 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

LOL, so true :P
as if the current gimping weren't enough :P

Boldrin
01-30-2008, 10:33 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

Have to find friends to drag you along for twink gear like that, cuz the vale is rough

smatt
01-30-2008, 10:35 AM
Just what we needed, even more inflated numbers...:(


Hmmm, any and things tied specifically to casters should be left off the list..... ;)

Or maybe perhaps there's a recipe for some anti- ego/self-importance weapon that could be used on casters :eek:

JayDubya
01-30-2008, 10:35 AM
I don't think it's +9 - I think the "stacks with everything except Exceptional Dexterity +1" is probably a typo, and it should read "stacks with everything except Exceptional Dexterity"

llevenbaxx
01-30-2008, 10:47 AM
Hmmm, any and things tied specifically to casters should be left off the list..... ;)

Or maybe perhaps there's a recipe for some anti- ego/self-importance weapon that could be used on casters :eek:

Umm... not sure what youre saying but maybe:rolleyes:

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 10:53 AM
you wold basically have to run that chracter for no xp through all the pre reqs then have all the items, it looks like some bind so you would have to waste a lot of time to and have patient guildies willing to take a lvl 8 into the raid over and over to get such a great weapon


Have to find friends to drag you along for twink gear like that, cuz the vale is rough

Not really.

It's Bind on Equip.

Ciaran
01-30-2008, 10:54 AM
Are you serious?

Baatezu is a type of devil - who cares if it's a hold over from the 80's hysteria over D&D?

As for ML8 items - being that the item has to be bound to be upgraded and trying to run the quest being 8 levels or so below the CR of the quest would either be suicidal or a major drag on a party of appropriately leveled characters, I don't see these items getting in the hands of a level 8 character.

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Also, whats with the 'Baatzu' BS? Turbine, wake up smell the F-ing coffee. DEMON's and DEVIL's. Call them what they are, not this PC Lorraine Williams BS.

Baatezu is still an accurate, appropriate term for some Devils in D&D 3.5.

rimble
01-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Baatezu refer to a specific subset of Devils. The 'PC Lorraine Williams BS' was thrown out in 3rd Ed.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 10:55 AM
this type of weapon is going to require a while to get and is only available by doing the raid and getting all the right recipes. Turbine is not releasing any recipes so people will be spending time creating junk for the next while before stumbling upon anything good, and even then they will be lvl 16 by then

Milolyen
01-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg


Could be mistaken but isn't there a lvl restriction on entering the area? So even if you did get a group of friends to take you ... you could not go so discussion of a lvl 8 getting an item like this is rather pointless.

Milolyen

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 11:25 AM
Could be mistaken but isn't there a lvl restriction on entering the area? So even if you did get a group of friends to take you ... you could not go so discussion of a lvl 8 getting an item like this is rather pointless.

The item is Bind on Equip.

Not Bind on Acquire.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 11:33 AM
The item is Bind on Equip.

Not Bind on Acquire.

the question is can you improve it if it isn't bound, if you can then yes wayt oo powerful, if you can't then the best the level 8 could be given is a basic green steel weapon, and then you would have to drag him through all the quests and raid to improve it.

Looks like the shards of power bind as well so they wlil have to go through a lot to get that item powered up

Milolyen
01-30-2008, 11:53 AM
The item is Bind on Equip.

Not Bind on Acquire.

True but from what I have seen to upgrade it at all you have to have the item bound and atuned to you. So you could send the basic weapon to a lvl 8 (as arko had said) but then he can only upgrade it with the device in house k which can only bind and do basic upgrades from what I have read. Correct?

Milolyen

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 11:58 AM
True but from what I have seen to upgrade it at all you have to have the item bound and atuned to you. So you could send the basic weapon to a lvl 8 (as arko had said) but then he can only upgrade it with the device in house k which can only bind and do basic upgrades from what I have read. Correct?

Milolyen

looking at the article the item is the thrd stage item meaning the item was upgraded at all 3 raid machines, I personally will not be dragging a lvl 8 through the raid for a while just so they can get an awesome weapon or item.

Ciaran
01-30-2008, 12:00 PM
looking at the article the item is the thrd stage item meaning the item was upgraded at all 3 raid machines, I personally will not be dragging a lvl 8 through the raid for a while just so they can get an awesome weapon or item.

I think they'll probably be changing this at some point down the road. I don't see it happening except in rare few circumstances.

Yaga_Nub
01-30-2008, 12:10 PM
looking at the article the item is the thrd stage item meaning the item was upgraded at all 3 raid machines, I personally will not be dragging a lvl 8 through the raid for a while just so they can get an awesome weapon or item.

Not even for 4,000,000 PP!?!

Angelus_dead
01-30-2008, 12:19 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!
Newsflasher, DDO has given superior items to level 10 characters starting in module 1. This item isn't out-of-balance with what we're already getting.

We got +6 items back at level 10, so it's fine to get +8 items at level 16.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 12:23 PM
Not even for 4,000,000 PP!?!

in the time that it would take to drag soimeone through all the quests through the raid etc and get all the ingredients I could get that guy to lvl 13 and then take him. The honest truth is something like that is just overkill and is not required to get past lvl 8. If you need that item to be effective then you should simply reroll

Angelus_dead
01-30-2008, 12:25 PM
in the time that it would take to drag soimeone through all the quests through the raid etc and get all the ingredients I could get that guy to lvl 13 and then take him.
It all depends on if that would be required. If a level 16 man can just do the raid and mail the item to his lower alt, then that IS a big problem. But hopefully there's some system in place where you can't do that.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 12:28 PM
It all depends on if that would be required. If a level 16 man can just do the raid and mail the item to his lower alt, then that IS a big problem. But hopefully there's some system in place where you can't do that.

I am going on the precept that the machines will only upgrade bound equipment as they have stated, so it only binds when you equip it, meaning the only thing you could send a lvl 8 is a blank green steel item

Milolyen
01-30-2008, 01:08 PM
looking at the article the item is the thrd stage item meaning the item was upgraded at all 3 raid machines, I personally will not be dragging a lvl 8 through the raid for a while just so they can get an awesome weapon or item.

Yes it would be the third stage from what I have seen as well ... and this now goes back to the first post I made and the fact that even if you wanted to drag a lvl 8 thru you couldn't because the quest and stuff is lvl restricted meaning you have to be such and such lvl to even get in. So again I say ... ahhh nevermind 90 percent of the arguements on the forum is just a pointless so go ahead and continue the arguement hehe.

Milolyen

Invalid_86
01-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Talk about a big mistake. Items like this should not even be feasible in the current game.

Eladrin
01-30-2008, 02:09 PM
The green steel "blanks" are bind on equip. Upgrading an item will bind it to the character.

Baatezu are a subset of devils, as tanar'ri are a subset of demons. Fleshrenders, for instance, are demons that are not tanar'ri.

Eladrin
01-30-2008, 02:16 PM
so can you upgrade an item without equiping and binding it first?
The act of upgrading an item will bind it to you. You can pass around the un-upgraded green steel blanks, however, as the early waves of explorers would otherwise potentially end up with weapons they are not proficient with. (Khopeshes, for instance, or the barbarian stuck with a sceptre.)

binnsr
01-30-2008, 02:18 PM
Seriously, though, since the Eldritch Devices can be used to add enhancements to items other than weapons, then how long will it be before there are +8 dex gloves of open lock 15 or whatever floating around out there?

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:19 PM
The green steel "blanks" are bind on equip. Upgrading an item will bind it to the character.

Baatezu are a subset of devils, as tanar'ri are a subset of demons. Fleshrenders, for instance, are demons that are not tanar'ri.

so basically no creating uber items and mailing then to your lvl 8 alt. If the lvl 8 alt wants it then they have to be dragged though the quests and the raid enough times to get enough components etc. And if you can do that chances are you can get that character up to lvl 12-13 quick enough that it is pointless. My other argument still stands. I f you think you char is weak enough that they need that uber item at lvl 8 then you should seriously consider a reroll

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:21 PM
The act of upgrading an item will bind it to you. You can pass around the un-upgraded green steel blanks, however, as the early waves of explorers would otherwise potentially end up with weapons they are not proficient with. (Khopeshes, for instance, or the barbarian stuck with a sceptre.)


makes sense as we experiment we will get weapons we do not want, but we could give them to another party member who uses that weapon type. Once all the weapon receipes are down it will just be a nice feature I guess

Invalid_86
01-30-2008, 02:23 PM
Seriously, though, since the Eldritch Devices can be used to add enhancements to items other than weapons, then how long will it be before there are +8 dex gloves of open lock 15 or whatever floating around out there?

Yep. Once these items start floating around, and the game balance problems begin arriving with them you can't balance them later without the "Nerf!" whining starting up.

GlassCannon
01-30-2008, 02:30 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg


You probably are. I like the concept.

dinin_darkblade
01-30-2008, 02:32 PM
There are already +15 open lock gloves in game... race restricted but there the same. My rogue has them and +15 spot, search, and disable device goggles all race restricted but got high umd so not a problem.

Dinin

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:33 PM
Yep. Once these items start floating around, and the game balance problems begin arriving with them you can't balance them later without the "Nerf!" whining starting up.

how will they be unbalancing, the effort to make one of these will be high

First you have to finish every quest in order to make a blank, then you have to farm for ingredients within the raid to build your recipes, at the same time you have to advance through the raid to be able to upgrade, and you actually have to finish it to be able to use the last machine. It is actually going to take longer to get what you want in the new method, until all the recipes are figured out. This is what people don't realize, there will be many pieces of unwanted raid loot created before people can start planning their uber items. Once we have the recipes we will have done the 16 lvl quests enough that we will have many comparable items by then. i would say its going to take at least a month before we have a really good set of recipes

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:34 PM
There are already +15 open lock gloves in game... race restricted but there the same. My rogue has them and +15 spot, search, and disable device goggles all race restricted but got high umd so not a problem.

Dinin

now that lvl 15-16 items are available you will be able to find them non rr

PhoenixRajoNight
01-30-2008, 02:35 PM
Yep. Once these items start floating around, and the game balance problems begin arriving with them you can't balance them later without the "Nerf!" whining starting up.

They did say in the patch description that their making hard and elite harder, didn't they? I'm pretty sure they did. Sounds like we need something to help us with those harder battles, or wait maybe they anticipated people having better equip from the new crafting stones and did a premtive pump to the mobs? Don't get me wrong I've said plenty of times turbine doesnt go in the right direction with somethings or doesnt plan it thru properly, but I'm pretty sure they got this little mod with the crafting an mob boosting going in a good = direction.

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 02:37 PM
how will they be unbalancing, the effort to make one of these will be high

While I'm reserving judgment on whether or not these are going to be "overpowered" I thought I'd still address this.

Just like with Drow and 32-point builds, "It takes a long time to get" is not a real balancing factor.

PhoenixRajoNight
01-30-2008, 02:39 PM
Oh and a side note, evil aligned weapon favored by the baatezu. Is this a turbine subtle tap of the hint hammer, that maybe just maybe. Starts to tremble in anticipation an evil campaign maybe be a thot floating around the office?

Invalid_86
01-30-2008, 02:41 PM
You don't see a problem with introducing +5 weapons of +8 Dex that can shoot out Delayed Blast Fireballs as being excessive at non-epic levels? Seriously?

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:43 PM
While I'm reserving judgment on whether or not these are going to be "overpowered" I thought I'd still address this.

Just like with Drow and 32-point builds, "It takes a long time to get" is not a real balancing factor.


My point is they will not be flooding the player base instantly, nor will all the player base have one of these in every equipment slot. Sure there will be those that seek out the best possible combination of items for everything they own, but that will be only the truly dedicated. Plus it will take a bit of time before we truly get all the recipes down,and these items can actually be planned out.
You are right only time will tell how overpowered they are

Laith
01-30-2008, 02:43 PM
You don't see a problem with introducing +5 weapons of +8 Dex that can shoot out Delayed Blast Fireballs as being excessive at non-epic levels? Seriously?actually: while the weapon has a lot of cool buffs on it, as far as weapons go it's pretty sad.


it's a +5 warhammer with an upgraded damage dice, with a (un enhanced/meta'd) fireball clicky on it.

sure, it saves you wearing a dex item... but so what?

Dworkin_of_Amber
01-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Mmmmm... thoughs of a Green Steel Khopesh... 1d10 19-20/x3... with +5, Holy, and Shocking Burst, and random Chain Lightnings.... or with +8 STR, and random Fireballs... or other nasty stuffs!

Looks like I might finally get a replacement for my +5 Flaming Adamantine Khopesk of Righteousness, my current primary weapon.

PhoenixRajoNight
01-30-2008, 02:47 PM
Mmmmm... thoughs of a Green Steel Khopesh... 1d10 19-20/x3... with +5, Holy, and Shocking Burst, and random Chain Lightnings.... or with +8 STR, and random Fireballs... or other nasty stuffs!

Looks like I might finally get a replacement for my +5 Flaming Adamantine Khopesk of Righteousness, my current primary weapon.

Most items are only allowed 1 prefix and 1 suffix and 1 material, their are some exceptions especially named items, but I'm sure that Catagory prefixes and suffixes are only allowed 1 period like eles, alignment, and some others.

moorewr
01-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Not really.

It's Bind on Equip.

Eladrin said, up above, that it also binds if you put in the crafting machine.

EDIT:

so, yes, anyone can send their 16 in, grab a blank, have friends drag their level 8 through the vale and all the quests in there so they can access the basic machine.. and on into the raid to get at the devices inside the raid.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Most items are only allowed 1 prefix and 1 suffix and 1 material, their are some exceptions especially named items, but I'm sure that Catagory prefixes and suffixes are only allowed 1 period like eles, alignment, and some others.

no this has no suffix prefix it looks like, this follows the named item convention of aimply adding effects

Bracosius
01-30-2008, 02:51 PM
I think items of this power level are fine.

My primary weapon right now is Deathnip, and it would be hard to find something that could replace it, but it will sure be fun trying.

The warhammer pictured is interesting, but hardly a great primary weapon. I just don't see alot of dex based warhammer using builds out there. It would take a very specific build to use that weapon to it's full potential.

Abilities working together is just as important to an item as the abilities themselves. Otherwise it's just another vicious xyz greater nothing bane of deception.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 02:56 PM
I think items of this power level are fine.

My primary weapon right now is Deathnip, and it would be hard to find something that could replace it, but it will sure be fun trying.

The warhammer pictured is interesting, but hardly a great primary weapon. I just don't see alot of dex based warhammer using builds out there. It would take a very specific build to use that weapon to it's full potential.

Abilities working together is just as important to an item as the abilities themselves. Otherwise it's just another vicious xyz greater nothing bane of deception.

however replace warhammer with rapier, or keep the hammer and replace dex with strengths nad the weapon is more desirable. It is going totake a while before we get the weapons we want and some industrious and adventurous souls who are willing to grind to get blanks and then try things out as they go along.

I would anticipate that the blanks receipes will all be known by Monday and that the rest will trickle in slowly

Bracosius
01-30-2008, 03:01 PM
however replace warhammer with rapier, or keep the hammer and replace dex with strengths nad the weapon is more desirable. It is going totake a while before we get the weapons we want and some industrious and adventurous souls who are willing to grind to get blanks and then try things out as they go along.

I would anticipate that the blanks receipes will all be known by Monday and that the rest will trickle in slowly

This is true. But I agree with your previous statement that this will take a long time to discover and alot of effort to create. So to me it would seem like a fitting reward.

We all know how long it takes to get a full tome book (exploits aside) and the rewards are amazing items. But they should be for the amount of time invested in achieving the goal.

These types of items seem like a fine progression to me.

Yaga_Nub
01-30-2008, 03:02 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

I know this says bind on equip but I thought you couldn't upgrade anything until you performed the binding ritual on the item. And doesn't the binding ritual bind it to you?

So while we are going to be able to make some UBER weapons, we definitely shouldn't be able to upgrade stuff and then send it to another character, right?

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 03:06 PM
I know this says bind on equip but I thought you couldn't upgrade anything until you performed the binding ritual on the item. And doesn't the binding ritual bind it to you?

So while we are going to be able to make some UBER weapons, we definitely shouldn't be able to upgrade stuff and then send it to another character, right?

Dev Tracker is your friend. :p

Lizardgrad89
01-30-2008, 03:07 PM
Am I the only one that thinks that completely bypassing level requirements and having what should be a min-level 30 item in the hands of a lvl 8 character is a bad idea?!

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg

http://ddoimages.level3.turbine.com/files/61/93/18/80/1326.jpg


I like this weapon. A lot.

I just wish it was a dagger or some other light weapon. My dex-based TWF battlerogue would combine it with his Bravo's Sword quite nicely, tyvm. :D

PhoenixRajoNight
01-30-2008, 03:07 PM
I know this says bind on equip but I thought you couldn't upgrade anything until you performed the binding ritual on the item. And doesn't the binding ritual bind it to you?

So while we are going to be able to make some UBER weapons, we definitely shouldn't be able to upgrade stuff and then send it to another character, right?

You should be able to send it to other characters, because it will just happen anyway, you'll grab all the ingredients and send them to the character and do the ritual on that one instead. It will happen period. whether u send 10 items to make it, or the 1 item itself.

Hendrik
01-30-2008, 03:09 PM
You should be able to send it to other characters, because it will just happen anyway, you'll grab all the ingredients and send them to the character and do the ritual on that one instead. It will happen period. whether u send 10 items to make it, or the 1 item itself.

Except you have to be in the Raid to craft the weapons.

Reads like have to be in the later stages of the Raid to craft the really good stuff.

Invalid_86
01-30-2008, 03:11 PM
Except you have to be in the Raid to craft the weapons.

Reads like have to be in the later stages of the Raid to craft the really good stuff.

For alot of players that is just a speed bump, not a real restriction.

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 03:13 PM
For alot of players that is just a speed bump, not a real restriction.

It's just raid loot.

Personally, I'm kind of glad to see raid loot that's actually better than some of that other stuff. Plus raid loot where you get to choose what it does.

Seems pretty good to me, overall.

jakeelala
01-30-2008, 03:15 PM
who cares if it twinked a lvl 8 out anyway?

that lvl 8 is going ot get capped eventually anyway, and its not like it's a long road from 8 to 16 with the current xp awards in game.

.......ZZZZzzzzzzz...

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 03:20 PM
You should be able to send it to other characters, because it will just happen anyway, you'll grab all the ingredients and send them to the character and do the ritual on that one instead. It will happen period. whether u send 10 items to make it, or the 1 item itself.

you need power shards and the items, and the power shards bind, so it will take some time. And again I make the same statement, if you feel the needto have such high ened equipment on your level 8 and drag him though the raid etc at lvl 8, then your chracter is gimped, because there is no reason you cannot level through 8-13 without them

The_Phenx
01-30-2008, 03:24 PM
If one requires caffeine to engage in polite conversation, perhaps one should reconsider his or her daily intake amounts.. :D

Seriously, though, since the Eldritch Devices can be used to add enhancements to items other than weapons, then how long will it be before there are +8 dex gloves of open lock 15 or whatever floating around out there?

My guess they will exist.. but not for a while.. and certianly not in great numbers... Im going to imagine that the best items for the endritch devices will be very rare..... see firestorm greaves.

Lizardgrad89
01-30-2008, 03:28 PM
you need power shards and the items, and the power shards bind, so it will take some time. And again I make the same statement, if you feel the needto have such high ened equipment on your level 8 and drag him though the raid etc at lvl 8, then your chracter is gimped, because there is no reason you cannot level through 8-13 without them


Ah, but if you COULD get the new raid loot twinked on an 8, you would see people in here shouting "I soloed Velah at Level 9" and I soloed Velah elite at Level 10".

THAT'S why people would want to do it.

Frankly, if you can't build a toon that can get out of level 8 without super-twinking you aren't going to have higher level characters capable of running the new raid stuff to begin with, so the gimp issue, IMO, is pointless.

Jhoran
01-30-2008, 03:29 PM
as some of you know; in the original asheron's call; you had to determine 'recipe's for casting spells (ie components)

the recipes were different for different people; my blood drinker 4 might use a blue taper; while yours would use a red taper; making it extra difficult (you couldn't just share recipes)

the system was eventually cracked; and you could easily find what your personal taper was with a 3rd party app.

i hope they don't do that here!


of course since they eventually took that aspect of spellcasting out of the game...hopefully they haven't implemented it here

Luthen
01-30-2008, 03:30 PM
I have a question for Devs. Are the "crafted" raid items the only raid loot for Mod 6? Or will there be named items that drop as well? I have wanted crafting for ddo for some time... just not for myself. I can't stand crafting and collecting stuff but I know how important it is for a player base to have such a time sink. So I hope there's rewards in this raid for everyone... not just people who enjoy the crafting aspect of a game.

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 03:32 PM
I have a question for Devs. Are the "crafted" raid items the only raid loot for Mod 6? Or will there be named items that drop as well? I have wanted crafting for ddo for some time... just not for myself. I can't stand crafting and collecting stuff but I know how important it is for a player base to have such a time sink. So I hope there's rewards in this raid for everyone... not just people who enjoy the crafting aspect of a game.

I am sure we will have some named items, but not raid loot named items, there will be no list of static raid loot from what I understand. Most of the items you need to build anything come from the raid itself, so if you were grinding for raid loot before, not much will change

MeNorel
01-30-2008, 03:34 PM
Disappointing to me is that after all that work and all the great enhancements on it, useful or not, the value of the item is only 54kgp. :(

I could totally see farming and experimenting and taking things and combinations up to the max machine abilities but when I end up with trash I should be able to sell such piece of trash for a healthy chunk of change at the vendor. this hammer should be at least 6 figures. :p

ArkoHighStar
01-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Ah, but if you COULD get the new raid loot twinked on an 8, you would see people in here shouting "I soloed Velah at Level 9" and I soloed Velah elite at Level 10".

THAT'S why people would want to do it.

Frankly, if you can't build a toon that can get out of level 8 without super-twinking you aren't going to have higher level characters capable of running the new raid stuff to begin with, so the gimp issue, IMO, is pointless.

again it wil take some time and effort to get all the recipes before I would drag a lvl 8 in there. Personally it is just not worth the effort

oronisi
01-30-2008, 04:02 PM
Newsflasher, DDO has given superior items to level 10 characters starting in module 1. This item isn't out-of-balance with what we're already getting.

We got +6 items back at level 10, so it's fine to get +8 items at level 16.

Newsflash, that item isn't a +8, it clearly bypasses any rational level, + enhancement calculations. If it was properly rated, it would easily be over a lvl 20 requirement and I don't even know how high a +.

And the point is that game shouldn't exist in DDO....for a lvl 20 and bound or anybody. I really really hope that it's just a demo screenshot made in some test environment.

MysticTheurge
01-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Newsflash, that item isn't a +8, it clearly bypasses any rational level, + enhancement calculations. If it was properly rated, it would easily be over a lvl 20 requirement and I don't even know how high a +.

It's a +9 dex item/+5 hammer with higher base damage and 3/day DBF.

It doesn't seem that out of line for raid loot, if you ask me.

Angelus_dead
01-30-2008, 04:32 PM
Newsflash, that item isn't a +8, it clearly bypasses any rational level, + enhancement calculations. If it was properly rated, it would easily be over a lvl 20 requirement and I don't even know how high a +.
Lol. Have you tried adding up some of the enhancement totals for existing named items in DDO?

Let me think. Bereavement, +5 seeker 10 axe. Seeker 10 is +5 by itself, so that's a +10 item total. And yet, its so much weaker than other options that nobody cares. Enduring Conviction is +5 base, true law +1, greater good +2, and banishing +5. So it's +13 total.

Oh, and never forget Sword of Shadows. In terms of DPS, it equals a +19 Greatsword...!

Angelus_dead
01-30-2008, 04:32 PM
It's a +9 dex item/+5 hammer with higher base damage and 3/day DBF.
It doesn't seem that out of line for raid loot, if you ask me.
Well seriously, as raid loot it is way underpowered, because a warhammer has no synergy with a dex bonus. But switch it to a rapier and it become OK (clearly, whoever did the guide wasn't planning to really use it)

Eladrin
01-30-2008, 04:45 PM
The Twelve have received a message, scrawled in the blood of a thousand Arrowhawks:

"Lord Arraetrikos decrees it 'Bring your sons and daughters to the Shroud' day, and recommends that the puny adventurers of Stormreach leave their most powerful minions behind. The infernal legion will be sure to take excellent care of your younger adventurers, and an eternity of torment certainly does not await them.*

* See Fine Print of Infernal Contract for full details. Void where prohibited."

Tolero
01-30-2008, 04:55 PM
I like this weapon. A lot.

I just wish it was a dagger or some other light weapon...

...careful what you wish for

moorewr
01-30-2008, 05:12 PM
The Twelve have received a message, scrawled in the blood of a thousand Arrowhawks:

"Lord Arraetrikos decrees it 'Bring your sons and daughters to the Shroud' day, and recommends that the puny adventurers of Stormreach leave their most powerful minions behind. The infernal legion will be sure to take excellent care of your younger adventurers, and an eternity of torment certainly does not await them.*

* See Fine Print of Infernal Contract for full details. Void where prohibited."

ha ha!

My daughter is in danger of being sent to St. Brutus School for the Criminally Insane, but maybe the Shroud is more her speed.:)

captain1z
01-30-2008, 05:20 PM
This crafting protoype implemented so late after launch scares me.

I am beginning to see my fears become a reality.

The only bright side is:

a) I will take full advantage of it and have fun in the process.

and

b) prototypes can be altered before a final model is created.



I promise I will not cry nerf when that primordeal hammer comes down. This will be heavily looked at and modified.

Angelus_dead
01-30-2008, 10:12 PM
Talk about a big mistake. Items like this should not even be feasible in the current game.
Considering that the item is a lot worse than existing raid loot, which we had 4-6 levels earlier, why should this thing not be feasible?

ccheath776
01-31-2008, 09:40 AM
Is there an incredients list that I am not seeing?

oronisi
01-31-2008, 09:47 AM
Considering that the item is a lot worse than existing raid loot, which we had 4-6 levels earlier, why should this thing not be feasible?

Which raid loot item would be better than +8 to a stat, increasing the die of the weapon (from 1d8-1d10 for example), adding 3 clickies of one of the best damage spells ingame, adding a damage type to the weapon, and adding +5 enhancement to the weapon? Maybe I missed something along the way, maybe you know of a different raid that I've never been to.

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 10:02 AM
Which raid loot item would be better than +8 to a stat, increasing the die of the weapon (from 1d8-1d10 for example), adding 3 clickies of one of the best damage spells ingame, adding a damage type to the weapon, and adding +5 enhancement to the weapon? Maybe I missed something along the way, maybe you know of a different raid that I've never been to.

Sword of Shadows?

gpk
01-31-2008, 10:32 AM
Which raid loot item would be better than +8 to a stat, increasing the die of the weapon (from 1d8-1d10 for example), adding 3 clickies of one of the best damage spells ingame, adding a damage type to the weapon, and adding +5 enhancement to the weapon? Maybe I missed something along the way, maybe you know of a different raid that I've never been to.
As previously mentioned the Sword of Shadow comes to mind, or mod5's collectible tome pages turn in Deathnip (not raid loot).

Let's break down the item properties:

Green Steel: extra d2 to base damage die, average +1 damage. OK if you want to beat on Eladrin (ha!) or an Angelskinned Pally in PvP (Double Ha!)

Incineration: This sounds like a small chance effect, not a per-hit effect. If it's similar to Cloudburst, then it kicks ~ 5% (1 in 20) for an average of 50 points dmg. If this is the same effect it will be terribly underwhelming. Noone knows for sure yet ho good it will be, could be better could be worse.

Delayed Blast Fireball Clicky: All DDO offensive spell clickies are much weaker than the same spell cast by a caster. Yes it is caster level 16 but you don't get the extra damage from enhancements and potency items. Those 3 charges will barely make a dent in anything; really it's more a cosmetic clicky than anything else IMO.

Stat X +Exceptional Stat X: This is the only good property for SOME classes.
For example, a rogue might not care so much about base weapon dmg and might like the +6 dex +2 Exceptional Dex for +8 (if it were a rapier for instance). A sorcerer might like getting +8 Charisma to boost SP and spell DC, but typically arcane casters carry a superior potency 6-7-8 item in 1 hand and an Arcane lore in the other for some spells; Arcane Lore robes (dragon scales) exist of course.
Maybe some classes would use this offhand (if different weapon type), hard to say; you would probably end up losing damage over time, is a +2 to a stat worth it for a primary mêlée class?

Any other primary mêlée class would NOT use this weapon unless the Incineration kicked in very often, you would essentially be nerfing yourself otherwise.

I'm hoping there are much more interesting effects out there, I believe we saw shocking burst on one of the preview sites added to a +5 holy green steel longbow; that would be a lot more interesting for a primary mêlée class, a +5 holy shocking burst green-steel khopesh of pure good would be a nice weapon!

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 10:38 AM
Inceneration: This sounds like a small chance effect, not a per-hit effect. If it's simiral to Cloudburst, then it kicks ~ 5% (1 in 20) for an average of 50 points dmg. If this is the same effect it will be terribly underwhelming. Noone knows for sure yet ho good it will be, could be better could be worse.

Delayed Blast Fireball Clicky: All DDO offensive spell clickies are much weaker than the same spell cast by a caster. Yes it is caster level 16 but you don't get the extra damage from enhancements and potency items. Those 3 charges will barely make a dent in anything; really it's more a cosmetic clicky than anything else imo.

I suspect these are actually the same ability.

My guess is it has a small chance to proc DBF, but only to a max of three times per day.

Edit -- It also seems to me like the effects are tied together. So if you want the DBF, you've got to get the fire aspects, which means you've got the bonus to Dex.

If you get (as the other screenshots have shown) positive energy and air affinities, you end up with a lightning weapon, but you're going to have other specific effects.

Eladrin
01-31-2008, 10:42 AM
They're distinct abilities.

Incineration is an on-hit chance effect, DBF is a "clickie".

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 10:47 AM
They're distinct abilities.

Incineration is an on-hit chance effect, DBF is a "clickie".

Ah, ok.

aurus33
01-31-2008, 12:32 PM
Just a note, I think the item actually grants +9 dex, according to the text on Exceptional Dexterity +X, they dont stack with themselves to avoid a infinite cycle... well... even more insane.

oronisi
01-31-2008, 12:44 PM
As previously mentioned the Sword of Shadow comes to mind, or mod5's collectible tome pages turn in Deathnip (not raid loot).

Let's break down the item properties:

Green Steel: extra d2 to base damage die, average +1 damage. OK if you want to beat on Eladrin (ha!) or an Angelskinned Pally in PvP (Double Ha!)

Incineration: This sounds like a small chance effect, not a per-hit effect. If it's similar to Cloudburst, then it kicks ~ 5% (1 in 20) for an average of 50 points dmg. If this is the same effect it will be terribly underwhelming. Noone knows for sure yet ho good it will be, could be better could be worse.

Delayed Blast Fireball Clicky: All DDO offensive spell clickies are much weaker than the same spell cast by a caster. Yes it is caster level 16 but you don't get the extra damage from enhancements and potency items. Those 3 charges will barely make a dent in anything; really it's more a cosmetic clicky than anything else IMO.

Stat X +Exceptional Stat X: This is the only good property for SOME classes.
For example, a rogue might not care so much about base weapon dmg and might like the +6 dex +2 Exceptional Dex for +8 (if it were a rapier for instance). A sorcerer might like getting +8 Charisma to boost SP and spell DC, but typically arcane casters carry a superior potency 6-7-8 item in 1 hand and an Arcane lore in the other for some spells; Arcane Lore robes (dragon scales) exist of course.
Maybe some classes would use this offhand (if different weapon type), hard to say; you would probably end up losing damage over time, is a +2 to a stat worth it for a primary mêlée class?

Any other primary mêlée class would NOT use this weapon unless the Incineration kicked in very often, you would essentially be nerfing yourself otherwise.

I'm hoping there are much more interesting effects out there, I believe we saw shocking burst on one of the preview sites added to a +5 holy green steel longbow; that would be a lot more interesting for a primary mêlée class, a +5 holy shocking burst green-steel khopesh of pure good would be a nice weapon!

We are talking about a crafting system here, substitute out +8 to dex for holy, shocking burst, and I don't know, transmuting. A +6 item is what, lvl 13 req? holy is like 4, shocking burst is like 5, transmuting is probably worth 4 as well...so that's about even.

So you shouldn't be asking yourself if you want that EXACT item, but if you'd want an equally powerful item, but with mods that favor your characters.

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 12:54 PM
We are talking about a crafting system here, substitute out +8 to dex for holy, shocking burst, and I don't know, transmuting.

There's absolutely not evidence to suggest that that's possible.

(It might be, but I'd wait to flip out over it until you actually know whether it can happen or not.)

Kerr
01-31-2008, 01:14 PM
As much as I would hope they would, I'm thinking they should never allow us to modify Raid loot.

If they would though, I'd love to beef up my Sword of Shadow or Atonement to add a few effects on it. :eek:

binnsr
01-31-2008, 01:17 PM
There's absolutely not evidence to suggest that that's possible.

(It might be, but I'd wait to flip out over it until you actually know whether it can happen or not.)

The massively reviewer added both Shocking Burst and Holy to his longbow (http://www.massively.com/photos/ddo-the-shrould-hands-on/601890/)

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 01:23 PM
The massively reviewer added both Shocking Burst and Holy to his longbow (http://www.massively.com/photos/ddo-the-shrould-hands-on/601890/)

Right, but like I said before. The effects seem to be tied together. The hammer seems to have two applications of a "fire recipe" while the bow has one "positive energy recipe" and one "air recipe."

It seems unlikely that you can just take that hammer and replace the dex bonuses with holy, shocking burst and transmuting.

Yaga_Nub
01-31-2008, 02:02 PM
As much as I would hope they would, I'm thinking they should never allow us to modify Raid loot.

If they would though, I'd love to beef up my Sword of Shadow or Atonement to add a few effects on it. :eek:

Yeah I agree. There is NO WAY that I would be happy if they allowed the SoS to be upgraded.

Eladrin
01-31-2008, 02:10 PM
You'll be able to apply eldritch rituals (such as the Adamantine Ritual) to existing raid loot, but the eldritch recipes in The Shroud are restricted to green steel items.

Gratch
01-31-2008, 02:32 PM
Any other such as ones? :)

So ~95% of the 1200 recipes are green steel only? 80%? 99%?

Non game breaking things I could think of are:
-ritual of blemish I-IV (makes your item appear to be less valuable, thus decreasing it's actual value and repair costs)
-ritual of primary color change (lets you change the primary color on an item - only useful for displayed items: armor, helm, weapons)
-ritual of secondary color change
-ritual of random permenant polymorph (item picks a different random graphic from the set that match the item's base type)
-ritual of weapon polymorph (weapon base type and graphic changes to a random weapon of the same class: martial, simple, exotic - only guaranteed not to be the current weapon base type anymore). All properties move onto the new item type. [Not possible on named items].

Yaga_Nub
01-31-2008, 03:25 PM
You'll be able to apply eldritch rituals (such as the Adamantine Ritual) to existing raid loot, but the eldritch recipes in The Shroud are restricted to green steel items.

Darn. I wanted to be able to upgrade existing non-raid loot items.

Oh well. Maybe in the future.

mouser
01-31-2008, 03:55 PM
Newsflasher, DDO has given superior items to level 10 characters starting in module 1. This item isn't out-of-balance with what we're already getting.

We got +6 items back at level 10, so it's fine to get +8 items at level 16.
Other then the fact that it not dnd, but I guess they did do it correct by making a different which is legal from the back of DM. Though they should have used something else for the name.

Kisaragi
01-31-2008, 04:25 PM
You'll be able to apply eldritch rituals (such as the Adamantine Ritual) to existing raid loot, but the eldritch recipes in The Shroud are restricted to green steel items.

You know, you guys should have really told us this sooner. It kinda feels like being lied to at this point. You hide things in cloaks and shadows, and then say 'Oh, sorry, it's only going to be of benefit if you're grinding the raid.' You could have said when it was in development - 'Most of the upgrades will be limited to green steel', rather then making it seem like this was a true way of introducing crafting.

I feel upset now, downright sick. I was looking forward to crafting. I was looking forward to making non-raid items more unique or special. I feel betrayed. Once again, we're back to grinding, time wasting, and huge investments of money for something that may only be useful for two to three months.

Whenever I turn around it seems like if you can't spend huge amounts of time, you're not going to get to the new stuff. I barely got a chance to explore the orchid quests, because after it opened, everyone flooded it and now only want 'experienced' people. I spent 6 hours last night trying out the vale (exploring/hunting). I got 1 lilly out of a chest, nothing uber.

I'm not here just to gripe. I've been trying to become comfortable in playing the game, but it seems to be going somewhere I don't want to. DDO is becoming 'Elite twitch type players with lots of spare time need only apply'.

I've been here a long time, you can check the register date. I've been through a lot, and I keep getting disappointed. I'm getting frustrated when things I've been looking forward to get changed at the last moment. All because those in charge refuse to give all the specifics people need to know.

Maybe it's just my time to go. I don't know. I can say this though; As it stands, I'm not happy with what the raids appear to have turned into, the way the loot system works, and how mobs just end up more and more over the top. I was hoping to focus on the crafting system, but it seems that's a mute point now.

I'll be trying to find meaning beyond just more of the same only worse. I'm not going to ask the developers to give players something that's not grinding/twitch/uber loot oriented, because with this announcement, they have shown they don't care about it. They want more players, specifically WoW people, so they're going to make the game one to compete.

It'll just end up the same way....bad.

MysticTheurge
01-31-2008, 04:37 PM
You know, you guys should have really told us this sooner.

Pretty much from the beginning they've called this "prototype crafting" and fairly clearly indicated it was this modules "raid loot."

Angelus_dead
01-31-2008, 04:59 PM
I'm not here just to gripe. I've been trying to become comfortable in playing the game, but it seems to be going somewhere I don't want to. DDO is becoming 'Elite twitch type players with lots of spare time need only apply'.
There isn't some 20-day deadline where any characters not holding Green Steel weapons will have their accounts deleted. You can still play without these things.

If you do not play enough to get these items, chances are there are many other things in DDO you haven't done yet, and that you can have fun with.

xxDevlinxx
02-06-2008, 04:25 AM
honestly - who cares what minimum level requirement is if its BOUND!