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Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 04:17 PM
Hey all...I have 32 pt builds open and I was wondering what the best beholder killer class would and yet also still be great for tanking at the end game stuff. Even a link to a build or something. Would rather not use tomes as I am not rich though

MysticRhythms
01-24-2008, 04:25 PM
Fighter 14.

Season to taste.

binnsr
01-24-2008, 04:28 PM
Fighter 14.

Season to taste.

I'd actually go so far as to say WF Ftr11/Pal3/Rog2 .. WF Immunities (no enervate!!), Poison Immunity, Disease Immunity, Fear Immunity, Evasion and buckets of feats.

Impaqt
01-24-2008, 04:34 PM
I'd actually go so far as to say WF Ftr11/Pal3/Rog2 .. WF Immunities (no enervate!!), Poison Immunity, Disease Immunity, Fear Immunity, Evasion and buckets of feats.


I dont see the reasoning behind FIghter 11.. 10 gets you your STR Enh and Paly 4 gets you +1 Fort and beter lay on Hands, (Which can be used during a Beholder fight)

WF 10Fighter/4Paly/2Rogue

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 04:39 PM
Is my dex gonna be good enough to justify the 2 lvls of rogue? I like evasion but it takes a high reflex save to take advantage of. I hate splitting my points...and with Mod6 would being pure fighter be a bigger thing?

Twerpp
01-24-2008, 04:41 PM
All you need is great saves. WF are great for the immunity to negative levels though.

Splashing 2-3 Pally is great. Start with a CHA of 12 can get you a CHA of 20 (+6 item, +1 tome, pally CHA 1) and you get a +5 to saves...add a +5 save item, your +1 aura, and a greater hero (which in beholder fight gets dispelled) and you have a +15 save melee...without even having to wear a wisdom item.

If you want to really milk it you can get the new force of personality feat, and your will saves are based off your CHA you will have an additional +5, and you wont have to have any stat points wasted in Wisdom, just leave it at 6. You can take iron will for another +2 to will, or luck of heroes for another +1, or a 3rd pally level will get you another +1 to your ac and saves on your aura. Personally I wouldnt do all of that but force of personality is tasty.

Take the rest of the levels in fighter and spec in two handed with power attack to put them down quickly. Stunning blow works excellent on beholders too, right now they are slightly buggy and still move when you SB them, but at least they arent shooting you with a ton of rays and also they are autocrit :)

Just my suggestion... the two pally levels wont cost you much end game especially since there are no new feats announced for level cap for them, and 12 pts of cha dont cost too much even with a WF.

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 04:42 PM
I dont see the reasoning behind FIghter 11.. 10 gets you your STR Enh and Paly 4 gets you +1 Fort and beter lay on Hands, (Which can be used during a Beholder fight)

WF 10Fighter/4Paly/2Rogue

For the tower shield mastery 3.

Your fort saves are going to be well beyond the soft cap in any case, so +1 fort is of no value. The lay on hands benefit is also not noticable.

3 rogue or 11 fighter both have benefits, but 4 paladin is pretty much a waste.

You can't really go wrong as a warforged against a beholder. Whatever class you choose, your Warforgedness will make you immune to enervation and flesh to stone, which are the two most annoying effects the beholder has. All you need is reasonable saves, and you're fine as a paladin, fighter, barbarian or hybrid combination for tanking and for killing beholders.

binnsr
01-24-2008, 04:46 PM
I was thinking of my current WF intimitank that I'm leveling - I'm planning on taking 15-20 as fighter for an end of 15f/3p/2r .. with a build like that, losing 1 to fort isn't going to make that much of a difference - you'll still only be failing beholder rays on a 1.
Pal 4 only gives you 5 extra HP on your LoH over pal3 .. not all that much to write home about.

However, you don't lose a feat or anything by picking it up, so it's not a bad path either :) might make me reconsider not having 4 paladin levels (although i'd have to come up with space for a wisdom item:()

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 04:46 PM
ok I like the idea of 2 pally and rest fighter...any idea on starting stats?

Twerpp
01-24-2008, 04:47 PM
I wouldnt go evasion that limits you to mith body. addy body is great for the DR plus its way sexier you look like a Chaos Knight or a psycho Raiders fan. Plus you would need the dex to make it worthwhile. I think on an evasion build its only worth it if you save on bad rolls, not worth it if you only save on good rolls. 2 of rogue gets you some nice skill points...but decreases your BAB..so there is a trade off. It could help from a utility point of view you can UMD wand yourself and use great RR items...but it wont help you kill a beholder any faster.

MysticRhythms
01-24-2008, 04:49 PM
I like the purity of Fighter 14.

No need to devote any build points to non-physical stats.

Plenty of hit points, enhancements and glorious feats.

Lots of room to adapt and grow just by staying pure.

binnsr
01-24-2008, 04:51 PM
The build I'm currently leveling (http://www.housetharashk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=28706&postcount=2) will have a 28f/26r/17w facing a beholder (assuming I can get my hands on another set of Boots of the Innocent). Should be sufficient to make the Evasion worth having. If I find another +6 cha cloak and get a +3 cha tome from the reaver, those'll all go up another couple as well - but since he's only lvl9 right now, I'm not completely worried about that just yet :)

I haven't taken him into VoN3 for the litmus test yet, so he hasn't actually faced a beholder yet.

Twerpp
01-24-2008, 04:55 PM
This is what I would do:

2 pally/rest fighter

18str (+2 tome, +3 levels,+3 fighter,+6 item for 32)
9dex
17con
9int
6wis
12cha

For feats I would get addy body, force of personality (later), grtr weapon spec chain,imp crit, maybe grtr weapon focus, stunning blow, 1 toughness to unlock enhancement line, and then whatever you like. Two handed fighting chain is simply awesome and I think mod 6 is going to improve it. You will not have the stats for CE/IMP trip, or spring attack chains, but if you really wanted it you could pull from con stat.

WF pallys can get a +1 to hit with greatsword enhancement..so that could be your weapon of choice. I hear theres a really nice greatsword out there that some dragon is keeping, kill her and get it.

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 05:02 PM
Ok now shouldn't I have a higher dex to take advantage of the fighter armor agility or does it not help WF?

Impaqt
01-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Tower Master 3? You need a 22 Dex to take advantage of that.... and Why would he be worried about AC on a Beholder Slayer Build? Their Bit attack isnt that substantial.

Every Little bit helps on your Lay On hands.... I cant see the Tower Master ever coming into play on a build like this.. are there any other fighter 11 Enh?

TSM III or +5HP LoH & +1 Will Save And Access to Paladin Spells.... You only need an 11+ Wisdom to Cast spells, Doent matter what your base is. SO a +5 Item and a Magi Item, Pop, gives ya 10 Virtues at least.....

Mithral Body isnt a bad thing.... 5 Base +5 Dex vs 8 base +1 dex on adamantine....

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 05:16 PM
Tower Master 3? You need a 22 Dex to take advantage of that.... and Why would he be worried about AC on a Beholder Slayer Build? Their Bit attack isnt that substantial.




24 dex is what you'd need to take advantage of that. We're talking about an evasion tank, which naturally is going to need high dexterity. My own 8/3/3 fighter/pally/rogue has 24 dex even though I chose to go with more skill points and the extra d6 backstab instead of TSM 3 (until level 18 comes out). That is where you want to be for this very reason.

The reason he'd be worried about AC is the second half of his question.


Hey all...I have 32 pt builds open and I was wondering what the best beholder killer class would and yet also still be great for tanking at the end game stuff.

A hybrid like that might be a little bit too expensive to equip given his statement about tomes and the fact that this sort of build wants to pump all 6 stats. Still, that is the answer to your question. Why fighter 11? TSM 3.

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Ok yeah heres the question again...I want a beholder killer AND a good end game tank. Should I raise my dex higher then 9 then?

Impaqt
01-24-2008, 05:23 PM
24 dex is what you'd need to take advantage of that. We're talking about an evasion tank, which naturally is going to need high dexterity. My own 8/3/3 fighter/pally/rogue has 24 dex even though I chose to go with more skill points and the extra d6 backstab instead of TSM 3 (until level 18 comes out). That is where you want to be for this very reason.

The reason he'd be worried about AC is the second half of his question.



A hybrid like that might be a little bit too expensive to equip given his statement about tomes, but still, that is the answer to your question. Why fighter 11? TSM 3.

At Level 18 He'd be 12/4/2

to get to a 24 Dex on a WF you'd have to start with a 17 Dex if you dont want to worry about Tomes..... Not a very likely scenario for a tank build....

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 05:29 PM
It really depends, but if you want to be a "tank" to me that means you want to focus on being able to survive a lot of damage, correct? If I understand what you mean by tank, then it would be a waste to take all of those fighter levels and not take advantage of combat expertise or the armor mastery (possibly TSM if you go with a tower shield) enhancements to get your AC up beyond what you could get with other classes.

I'd go with 3 levels of paladin, though. This gives you some useful paladin enhancements and fear immunity at the cost of a fighter feat. The paladin aura enhancements will be +1 to all saves and +1 to ac, so I'd consider that worth one feat.

You can lower that STR a little bit. I wouldn't drop below 16, but 16 is fairly standard for a defensive melee type. 17 con is nice but not necessary. You could get away with dropping that a point or two, especially since its your racial stat. 12 CHA is a good place to be since you're a warforged.

I know you said you can't afford tomes, but int tomes are cheap. If you wish to get the most AC you can, then starting with 12 int and consuming a tome for 13 int is the best way to get combat expertise without wasting creation points.

What server are you on?

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 05:32 PM
At Level 18 He'd be 12/4/2

to get to a 24 Dex on a WF you'd have to start with a 17 Dex if you dont want to worry about Tomes..... Not a very likely scenario for a tank build....


True. As I said, this type of hybrid pumps too many stats to be a cheap build, but you asked why he advised 11 fighter. That is the reason why. It's the standard goal for this type of build in the late game. That is what you're trying to do. You can survive without the 1 AC until you manage to hit 1750 and take your tome, or pull one by luck out of a quest, or trade for one.

Personally, I took a CHA tome at 1750 on my own, but that's not the point either :)

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Ok..11 Fighter and 3 pally before mod6...we'll see after that...now for stats I was thinking:
Str16
Dex16
Con16
Int8
Wis6
Cha12

And get the save feats o offset wis...any ideas?

Vizzini
01-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Warforged Wizard - PK / Finger of Death Specialist.


Hey all...I have 32 pt builds open and I was wondering what the best beholder killer class would and yet also still be great for tanking at the end game stuff. Even a link to a build or something. Would rather not use tomes as I am not rich though

Impaqt
01-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Ok..11 Fighter and 3 pally before mod6...we'll see after that...now for stats I was thinking:
Str16
Dex16
Con16
Int8
Wis6
Cha12

And get the save feats o offset wis...any ideas?

Force of Personality Requires a 13 Base CHR.... Gonna need a Tome to take it...

16 Dex Without Evasion sems overkill.....

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 05:46 PM
I was thinking 16 dex to get the best from TSM and armored agility...correct me if its to high. And I am on server Sarlona

Borror0
01-24-2008, 05:47 PM
Best Beholder slayer?

WF Barbarian. 32 pt

18/12/16/8/12/6

He'll get a will save of:

5 Base
+4 Wisdom
+4 Resistance
+3 Rage
17 Will

Of course, you can add +1-3 for Barbarian Willpower I to III and +1-2 for Rabbit Gloves or Head of Good Luck and an additional +1 from Kardin's Eye or Boots of the Innocent.

So, about 18-23 Will saves versus anything. :) Need anythnig else? Then, you got insane DPS and HP.

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 05:48 PM
You'll probably want iron will, but the paladin saves aura + divine grace should pump your will saves up to an acceptable level. You can also wear a wisdom item of some sort if you have the space to fit one, and you'll want to find a resistance item no matter what build you go with.

Starting with 8 int excludes you from ever getting combat expertise unless +5 tomes come out at level 20. This will cost you 5 possible max armor class, but I suppose you'll be spreading yourself a bit thin if you take that much int and don't use any tomes. It is a shame, though, because that +5 AC is a pretty nice boost sometimes.

If you're not going with evasion, I assume you're taking adamantine body for the 8 AC and damage reduction. This will limit your dex based AC quite a bit. Even with all 3 levels of fighter armor mastery, you'll be stuck with a 4 dex bonus, I believe.

Edit: meaning that 12 base dex +6 dex item would put you at your dex bonus cap. Tomes would obviously allow you to start with less if you were willing to wait a while before you got that last AC point out of it. In this case, though, a mithral tower shield would cover your whole dex bonus without enhancements.

The tradeoff of evasion is that you need to be in light armor. Your armor tends not to restrict your dex bonus as much, but you lose the AC from the armor itself. Without evasion, you want heavy armor for the most possible AC, but a warforged can't take advantage of mithral full plate.

You're on Sarlona? I can probably help you get that +1 int tome for combat expertise.

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 06:08 PM
Best Beholder slayer?

WF Barbarian. 32 pt

18/12/16/8/12/6

He'll get a will save of:

5 Base
+4 Wisdom
+4 Resistance
+3 Rage
17 Will

Of course, you can add +1-3 for Barbarian Willpower I to III and +1-2 for Rabbit Gloves or Head of Good Luck and an additional +1 from Kardin's Eye or Boots of the Innocent.

So, about 18-23 Will saves versus anything. :) Need anythnig else? Then, you got insane DPS and HP.

I have one of these too, and they do work :) He has only the 6 starting wisdom, though and is 18/8/20/8/6/6. His will saves are 21 normally or 28 vs enchantments.

Barbarians remind me about the other part of a warforged build that I forgot to mention. Damage resistance.

You can use the docent of defiance and a tower shield for roughly 40 DR when blocking and high 20s DR normally. It also comes with 3 improved elemental resists. The cost is that the docent is only +4 instead of +5, and the 20/- DR is an effect that triggers randomly when you're hit (like madstone boots do) but it cripples your run speed. Make sure you have at least 1 point of tumble with your armor and shield on.

Sehenry03
01-24-2008, 06:14 PM
ok I am considering the barb also...but for the pally/fighter...should I lower dex to 12 and aise int to 12 and hope for a tome for each for dodge and CE?

Hadrian
01-24-2008, 06:30 PM
The best thing to do is download a character planner and map out what you'd like to do. Then you can look at it all put together and see if there is anything that stands out that you'd like to change. It's difficult to answer very specific questions when you're still undecided about the details.

Explore the builds with one of the character generators and then maybe you'll figure out which feats you're going to take and what trade offs suit you. As for the tomes, +1 tomes are pretty easy to get. I don't know that I would allow two of the feats that I want to be dependent on +1 tomes that I don't have, though.

What are your long term item goals?

For example, do you plan to get madstone boots eventually, or maybe your goal for the boots slot is the boots of innocence?

If madstone boots, I'd say start with 13 dex. You'd find it easy to get a +1 dex tome by the time you get those boots, and then you'd be able to use them as your dex item. 13 +1 tome +4 boots is 18. You've capped your dex bonus and used the slots efficiently.

If boots of the innocence, I'd say start with 12 dex and I'll help you get the tome. Boots of innocence have no dexterity on them, so you're going to need to get a dex ring or some dex gloves. There you can set your goal for just a +5 item and get 18 total, but you'll have used up a second item slot.

I sent you a PM with my character names on Sarlona. Once you are certain about what you want to do we can talk about getting you the tome or tomes you'll need. I am going to log off for now.

Jebise
01-25-2008, 03:58 PM
Hadrian is right.... a character planner is a HUGE help. I went with an 11 fighter/ 3 pally build and am loving it. I took Drow, but that's cause I didn't have 32 point build yet.

Another really good resource for tank type builds can be found here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126603). take a good look at the "break points" section especially if you're going to multiclass. It'll give you some ideas as to what you get for each level of another class you take, and what you lose from your primary class.