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Tophimos
01-22-2008, 12:24 AM
To me the AC seems unfairly high. Monks can't wear armor, WF can't wear armor, therefore every monk will be WF.

Does anyone agree? Or is it just me...

MrCow
01-22-2008, 12:30 AM
Warforged have a headstart in the AC department with composite plating (+2 Armor Bonus) and slightly less WIS (-1 WIS-based AC). That tapers off around +7 Armor Bracers (These fill the slot of a +5 Docent and the +2 Armor Bonus of composite plating) and slowly Warforged degrade into lower AC due to lower WIS.

Tophimos
01-22-2008, 01:03 AM
It's not so much that the AC will be broken, it won't, but that WFs will have a small bonus to their AC, and more easily accessible AC boosts. The shared "weakness" of being unable to equip armor seems like it will attract just about every player interested in Monk towards being a WF. Seems like such a blatant negative tacked onto a race and class would make it obvious to not allow the two together. Also, how can a warforged be a spiritual fighter? No souls in those things.

MrCow
01-22-2008, 01:19 AM
Pulling stuff from the books now:



Monk: Monk is a good class choice for a warforged character. Monks do not normally wear armor, so the armor bonus inherent to the race is a great advantage. You can choose to increase that advantage with Adamantine Body or Mithral Body, but both of those feats cause you to take penalties to skills important to most monks. Consider taking Cold Iron Tracery or Silver Tracery. These feats allow your unarmed strikes to overcome types of damage reduction that you must normally find monk weapons of the right material to defeat. Unlike your natural slam attack, your unarmed strikes do not deal 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus in extra damage. If you wish to do that, you must forego your unarmed strike damge and monk abilities, making only a single slam attack.
When a warforged monk gains the wholeness of body ability, he can use that ability to repair damage he has taken.

Composite plating is natural to Warforged, much like your fleshy skin is natural to you as a human.


Also, how can a warforged be a spiritual fighter? No souls in those things.

Are you sure about this? The sentient-granting magical force isn't comparable to our "soul" capable of channelling some type of "spiritual energy"? The workings of a Warforged are somewhat of a mystery so this could be quite possible.

In short, Warforged are not equivalent to your standard robot.

Blackwatch
01-22-2008, 01:59 AM
Also, how can a warforged be a spiritual fighter? No souls in those things.

Actually, this statement is blatantly incorrect.

Eberron cannon states that warforged are fully alive, and fully sentient. This includes a plethora of examples from cannon books and novels where warforged are priests, monks, and druids. Why they pursue these paths is irrelevant. They can pursue them.

Warforged in Eberron are not a new creation, the Forges that create them are old... ancient... with the lore of them lost. New artificers have used these creation forges to create new warforges, but even they cannot explain how they make fully sentient beings rather than just advanced golems.

Either way, regardless, whether they have a soul or not is a philosophical question. The fact that they are sentient and living equal to the sentience and life of any human, dwarf, elf, or orc, etc. is indisputable cannon information.

Blackwatch

Ghoste
01-22-2008, 02:00 AM
It's not so much that the AC will be broken, it won't, but that WFs will have a small bonus to their AC, and more easily accessible AC boosts. The shared "weakness" of being unable to equip armor seems like it will attract just about every player interested in Monk towards being a WF. Seems like such a blatant negative tacked onto a race and class would make it obvious to not allow the two together. Also, how can a warforged be a spiritual fighter? No souls in those things.

Blasphemy. It is the weakness of a fleshling's soul that need not be recognized. A living construct's soul is far more potent, which is why the Becoming God's power grows exponentially with every soul that steps out of the new forges.

MrCow
01-22-2008, 02:01 AM
Becoming God's power

I fear many people will fail a lore check on this one. :(

Oh well, they can always read (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060804b&page=1) about it if they want.

Blackwatch
01-22-2008, 02:45 AM
Speaking of which... too bad there's no prestige classes or artificers... Reforged and Renegade Mastermakers would be an awful lot of fun in DDO...

especially seeing warforged dressed as foppish swashbucklers...

Bah... I want a cavalier hat, would be so much more enjoyable than the weird eraser head things

Nevthial
01-22-2008, 02:52 AM
The first "Warforged " monk was an android in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, so sure , why not true Warforged monks?

Ghoste
01-22-2008, 02:59 AM
On a more serious note, the question about whether or not warforged have souls: it's irrelevant whether they actually have souls, or just think they do. Both possibilities lead to spirituality.

dejafu
01-22-2008, 03:16 AM
Don't forget that a Wisdom hit for a Monk results in more than just loss of AC: it affects their Stunning Blow DC (not sure if they're going to respec that on DDO, where it's currently Str based), healing ability, Quivering Palm strike, etc. A negligible early bonus to AC that, as others have pointed out, eventually becomes offset, does not compare with the benefits of a higher wisdom. Of course, many players will probably make WF monks for short sighted reasons, but they'll be outclassed at higher levels.

Ghoste
01-22-2008, 03:25 AM
Shortsighted reasons? Fair enough, but don't go assuming every wf monk out there was made for the same reasons.

dejafu
01-22-2008, 03:30 AM
Shortsighted reasons? Fair enough, but don't go assuming every wf monk out there was made for the same reasons.

Dude, I'm planning on making one myself ;) Not for the AC, but because kung-fu robots are spiffy :D

Ghoste
01-22-2008, 03:34 AM
Dude, I'm planning on making one myself ;) Not for the AC, but because kung-fu robots are spiffy :D
I'm all about delivering iron-fisted Death to all Fleshlings!!!

Hvymetal
01-22-2008, 03:36 AM
Don't forget that a Wisdom hit for a Monk results in more than just loss of AC: it affects their Stunning Blow DC (not sure if they're going to respec that on DDO, where it's currently Str based), healing ability, Quivering Palm strike, etc. A negligible early bonus to AC that, as others have pointed out, eventually becomes offset, does not compare with the benefits of a higher wisdom. Of course, many players will probably make WF monks for short sighted reasons, but they'll be outclassed at higher levels.
Because everyone knows that a stat difference of two automatically gimps your character in the long run.....:rolleyes:

Memnir
01-22-2008, 03:41 AM
One of my favorite PnP characters is a WF monk. I can't wait to rebuild him in DDO.

Tin_Dragon
01-23-2008, 02:21 PM
One of my favorite PnP characters is a WF monk. I can't wait to rebuild him in DDO.

Same here.

But, DONT FORGET THE BATTLE FISTS!!

-adds 1 SIZE when figureing monk Unarmed Damage, and are FULLY enchantable, like longswords, daggers etc... my PnP monk has holy /disrupting; Flaming burst/holy; and shocking burst/holy.

I wonder how that would work, even with something like a monk using a nunchaku or sai in each hand, there is no penalty, and in PnP you can choose what to attack with.

say yoru flurry gives you +10/+10/+5 so you have 3 attacks, in PnP you can alternate your attacks as hand/foot/hand hand/hand/headbut or knee hand foot. ITs all flavor, UNTIL the weapon types your using come into play. My above wf monk can wear (obviosly) whatever battle fist he puts on (like a big steel glove) {and they arent sets, they are singles} so if I have 1 battle fist on, say the disruptor (believe thats the right hand) and say in other hand I have a nunchaku of smiting in the other (not wearing a battle fist), then lets look at combat. In a room fighting contruct controlled by lich. So when attacking the contruct All 3 attacks come from smiter, next round, without any kind of actionable change, I turn and attack 3 times at the lich, with the holy disruptor!

How is that gonna translate into DDO?? This IS a huge factor of the monks combat abilities.