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Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 01:57 PM
I happen to love this enhancement line and although I have absolutly no use for the first line ability in the line, I love the second ability with one caveat, the timer.

Is there any way we can find a way to reduce this timer from 10 minutes to say maybe 5 minutes (even if it cost some more AP) or maybe two enhancements one that cuts it in half for 1 AP (5 minutes) and another that cuts it in half again (150 seconds) for 2 AP????

Thank you for your time, and any consideration, comments or feedback.

Yaga_Nub
01-11-2008, 02:00 PM
/signed.

Beherit_Baphomar
01-11-2008, 02:00 PM
Is that the 1000hp hjeel one? If thats the hjeel one they actually cut that down from 20 minutes, I believe, and changed the range
to more than *touch*.

Mad_Bombardier
01-11-2008, 02:03 PM
What about a uses per rest system that matched the rest of the game? 2 uses per rest of all of the faith enhancements. Yes, you can chain them together, potentially getting 4 in short succession while near a shrine. But, that's ok. There's nothing too terribly overpowered about any of the faiths (except maybe Raise Dead, which doesn't matter near a shrine anyway because Rez shrines are multiuse). Then, potentially you could do more enhancements for more uses per rest. I'd think that 2 APs for 1 more use and 4 APs (as Paladin extra LoH) for 2 more uses would be appropriate.

Edit: Ok, I forgot the new lowered cost for Paly LoH and rally enhancements. So, cut the base enhancement to 1 use per rest and add enhancements for: 1 AP for +1 use per rest and 2 AP (3 cumulative) for +2 uses per rest. At that point you'd be spending 9 AP for +1 to-hit/proficiency with favored weapon and 3 uses per rest of your faith ability.

Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 02:04 PM
Is that the 1000hp hjeel one? If thats the hjeel one they actually cut that down from 20 minutes, I believe, and changed the range
to more than *touch*.

Yes it is, and it still needs to be cut again. Especially for the cost. Consider that in the near future the same 6 AP will buy paladins three extra LoH.

It seems a bit underpowered for 6 AP, (nobody really uses the first ability that I know). I would be willing to pay up to an extra 2 AP for reduced timers.

Mercules
01-11-2008, 02:05 PM
I happen to love this enhancement line and although I have absolutly no use for the first line ability in the line, I love the second ability with one caveat, the timer.

Is there any way we can find a way to reduce this timer from 10 minutes to say maybe 5 minutes (even if it cost some more AP) or maybe two enhancements one that cuts it in half for 1 AP (5 minutes) and another that cuts it in half again (150 seconds) for 2 AP????

Thank you for your time, and any consideration, comments or feedback.

Cut it in half AGAIN? Really? It was rough to use at 20 minutes, but at 10 you can use it at least once every short quest and twice or more for normal quests. It's not meant to replace the actual casting of the spell but instead be a helpful extra free shot in the arm.

Club'in
01-11-2008, 02:06 PM
My cleric/rogue uses the first level. Charisma was her only dump stat, so I can use one of her two turns to gain longsword proficiency. I love it.

Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 02:07 PM
What about a uses per rest system that matched the rest of the game? 2 uses per rest of all of the faith enhancements. Yes, you can chain them together, potentially getting 4 in short succession while near a shrine. But, that's ok. There's nothing too terribly overpowered about any of the faiths (except maybe Raise Dead, which doesn't matter near a shrine anyway because Rez shrines are multiuse). Then, potentially you could do more enhancements for more uses per rest. I'd think that 2 APs for 1 more use and 4 APs (as Paladin extra LoH) for 2 more uses would be appropriate.

Actually they are reducing the costs for the LoH enhancements, they are going down to 1-2-3....

I could get down with this idea, even if it is a base 1 just like LoH, and they added enhancements for 1AP-2AP-3AP for +1,2,3 uses per shrine.

Considering that I would pay 12 AP (6 for the line in the first place, 6 for extra uses) I believe it would not be overpowered.

KoboldKiller
01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
/signed

Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Cut it in half AGAIN? Really? It was rough to use at 20 minutes, but at 10 you can use it at least once every short quest and twice or more for normal quests. It's not meant to replace the actual casting of the spell but instead be a helpful extra free shot in the arm.

Aye but then again, I am adding a cost to it....

Mad_Bombardier
01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Actually they are reducing the costs for the LoH enhancements, they are going down to 1-2-3....

I could get down with this idea, even if it is a base 1 just like LoH, and they added enhancements for 1AP-2AP-3AP for +1,2,3 uses per shrine.

Considering that I would pay 12 AP (6 for the line in the first place, 6 for extra uses) I believe it would not be overpowered.Great minds, cow. I just posted the same thing in an edit, above. :) (at exactly the same time 3:07 :D)

Mercules
01-11-2008, 02:11 PM
(nobody really uses the first ability that I know).

Doesn't it also grant proficiency with the Longsword for the use of a Turn Undead? So you could build a battle cleric that uses longswords and didn't grab a level of another class for that? Longsword is slightly better than Heavy Mace.

Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 02:14 PM
Doesn't it also grant proficiency with the Longsword for the use of a Turn Undead? So you could build a battle cleric that uses longswords and didn't grab a level of another class for that? Longsword is slightly better than Heavy Mace.

Yes it does, for 2 AP....... Of course like I said, not many use it for this....

Beherit_Baphomar
01-11-2008, 02:16 PM
My pally uses the first enhancement, he's elf and has a hooj to-hit using longswords. I like em both.

Ten minutes doesnt seem like a long time, but it means, at least for my pally, that it goes without being used more
often than not. I dont see why cutting it down to five minutes would make it overpowered...and I also like the X/day
suggestion too.

frederjoe1
01-11-2008, 02:21 PM
What would be better is if you could use this to target NPC's as well....hello all pally cleric undead beholder dead in a second...

Mercules
01-11-2008, 02:25 PM
Yes it does, for 2 AP....... Of course like I said, not many use it for this....

Well, I don't often use the 2 points of Acid Resistance I had to pick up to get Way of the Mechanic on my Rogue either. At least I was smart and picked acid which tends to be DoT and thus 2 points helps even without any other resists.

I can understand why you want a Heal spell that costs no resources... but they also need to be sure they are not offering too much. They are already overboard on Wands and Scrolls and recalling for SPs. Offering too much healing is just asking for mobs power to go up again, character HPs to inflate more, and AC to matter even less.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 02:58 PM
Um....

Unyielding Sovereignty (and all the other second-tier faith enhancements) cost 4 AP not 6.

Once every ten minutes seems fine to me. If you were going to add cooldown reducing enhancements it should probably be -2.5 minutes for 2 AP and then -5 minutes for 4 AP.

-5 minutes for 1 AP and then -7.5 minutes for 2 AP seems ridiculously overpowered and/or undercosted.

Mercules
01-11-2008, 03:02 PM
Unyielding Sovereignty (and all the other second-tier faith enhancements) cost 4 AP not 6.

He is including the cost of the prereq because "Nobody uses it." :rolleyes:

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 03:05 PM
He is including the cost of the prereq because "Nobody uses it." :rolleyes:

Oh. Well that's just silly.

Why wouldn't you use it? Perma-til-shrine longsword proficiency and a +1 to hit with them. Why wouldn't a cleric use that?

Mercules
01-11-2008, 03:19 PM
Oh. Well that's just silly.

Why wouldn't you use it? Perma-til-shrine longsword proficiency and a +1 to hit with them. Why wouldn't a cleric use that?

But it isn't a Khopesh, Dwarven Waraxe, Rapier, or Greataxe... aren't those the only weapons in the game... Oh, and Muckbane.;)

Memnir
01-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Anything that will boost my Paladin's (and soon Cleric's) to-hit is a good thing. True, I don't use it for the Grant Weapon Proficancy clickie often - but the extra +1 to-hit is worth 2 APs in my opinion.

Now, I can see wanting a reduction in the timer - but I can't see getting a(nother) reduction of the timer. Unyeilding Sov is a very powerful ability, and to put it into more frequent use would be overpowered, imho. The ONLY way I could see the timer coming down anymore would be if they added a 3rd tier to the line.

MysticRhythms
01-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I use the lower tier version of the enhancement all the time. It's bonus that it works on other people who use longswords, too.

All of the simple clerical weapons are blah, but longswords are a bit sexier. Two action points to gain proficiency and essentially Weapon Focus? Sign me up.

Eregion2
01-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Honestly it seems like a waste of 4-6AP due to the time limit; maybe they could make it less powerful or perhaps have a negative effect of some sort on the caster to balance more frequent use? I reset my enhancements to get rid of this and use the 6AP for something more useful. :rolleyes:

Vizzini
01-11-2008, 04:45 PM
Would love to see this (even for more AP) setup as a rechargable skill at Shrines, like Dragonmarks, or LoH :D


What about a uses per rest system that matched the rest of the game? 2 uses per rest of all of the faith enhancements. Yes, you can chain them together, potentially getting 4 in short succession while near a shrine. But, that's ok. There's nothing too terribly overpowered about any of the faiths (except maybe Raise Dead, which doesn't matter near a shrine anyway because Rez shrines are multiuse). Then, potentially you could do more enhancements for more uses per rest. I'd think that 2 APs for 1 more use and 4 APs (as Paladin extra LoH) for 2 more uses would be appropriate.

Edit: Ok, I forgot the new lowered cost for Paly LoH and rally enhancements. So, cut the base enhancement to 1 use per rest and add enhancements for: 1 AP for +1 use per rest and 2 AP (3 cumulative) for +2 uses per rest. At that point you'd be spending 9 AP for +1 to-hit/proficiency with favored weapon and 3 uses per rest of your faith ability.

Cowdenicus
01-11-2008, 04:54 PM
Well, I don't often use the 2 points of Acid Resistance I had to pick up to get Way of the Mechanic on my Rogue either. At least I was smart and picked acid which tends to be DoT and thus 2 points helps even without any other resists.

I can understand why you want a Heal spell that costs no resources... but they also need to be sure they are not offering too much. They are already overboard on Wands and Scrolls and recalling for SPs. Offering too much healing is just asking for mobs power to go up again, character HPs to inflate more, and AC to matter even less.

This is the first time I have seen posters not wanting clerics to get additional healing ability because it would be "overpowered". If any of you play on Ghallanda please let me know who you are, as I would not want to offend you with my "overpowered" healing abilities in the future.....

Memnir
01-11-2008, 05:57 PM
Having the ability is not overpowered. Having too much of it, or having it too often, is. Particularly once the new Death Penalty comes into play. US is going to be the only thing in the game, save time, that will remove it. So, yeah... I think that having it at a timer less than 10 min would be too much of a good thing without the cost of the AP going up dramaticly.

I know you'll disagree with that - so I guess it's for the best I don't play on Ghallandra. :p

Mercules
01-11-2008, 06:50 PM
This is the first time I have seen posters not wanting clerics to get additional healing ability because it would be "overpowered". If any of you play on Ghallanda please let me know who you are, as I would not want to offend you with my "overpowered" healing abilities in the future.....

Um... I've likely played WITH you, I believe. I have two real life friends in the Iron Phalanx and when they are about I'll often be the PuGger in the guild group. ;)

Everyone has too much access to getting HPs back. Unfortunately most believe that is "The Cleric's job." but some can be taught. Limited resources are easy to balance and maintain challenge.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 07:41 PM
This is the first time I have seen posters not wanting clerics to get additional healing ability because it would be "overpowered". If any of you play on Ghallanda please let me know who you are, as I would not want to offend you with my "overpowered" healing abilities in the future.....

This is a silly "argument."

Maybe Heal shouldn't cost any SPs. No one can complain, right? It's just clerics getting additional healing ability.

:rolleyes: