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Coldin
01-10-2008, 10:46 AM
I love my little metallic dogs, even though my other party members frequently wish for their imminent death. But there really needs to be at least one more enhancement in the Iron Companion line. Now, I've said before that we should get Adamantine Defenders as the next enhancement. I was patient about getting them though, because I figured they needed to be created first before we could receive them as pets. Now I know otherwise! In fact, just the other night, a guild group decided to run Reclamation, the mine quest in Ataraxia. And much to my surprise, Adamantine Defenders exist there. They even come with a sizable DR and elemental resistances! Perfect for a more durable defender.

Since I know they exist, I fully expect them to appear as enhancement. If not by Mod 6, the update immediately following. Of course, I'm not totally serious about that, but I think they should come ASAP. I've even done the liberty of writing up the enhancement.



Adamantine Defender
Summons a CR 11 Adamantine Defender to fight for you once per rest for 5 minutes.

Cost: 2 Action Points

Prerequisites:
Action Points Spent: 40

Mithral Defender
Warforged Mechanics II OR
Skill Focus: Repair OR
Self Sufficient OR
Least Dragonmark of Making OR
Fighter Repair II OR
Rogue Way of the Mechanic I

binnsr
01-10-2008, 11:38 AM
Only if they do something other than grease every 10 seconds!

Coldin
01-10-2008, 01:33 PM
Only if they do something other than grease every 10 seconds!

Come on binnsr, you know you love those metal dogs.

Plus, I know it's much easier to get an Adamantine Defender, then to ask for a complete AI overhaul. All they have to do is take the existing code, change around a few numbers, and make it summon one of those Adamantine Defenders.

Corvid7
01-10-2008, 01:39 PM
Only if they do something other than grease every 10 seconds!

I am all for extending the defender chain of enhancements! I love my little metal doggies too... And you have to admit that the bad guys fall in the grease every now and again too!

Coldin
01-10-2008, 03:00 PM
I am all for extending the defender chain of enhancements! I love my little metal doggies too... And you have to admit that the bad guys fall in the grease every now and again too!

Thanks for the support Corvid. I hope everyone else that uses the Iron Defenders (or at least finds them fun and amusing) comes and supports the thread as well.

Kraldor
01-10-2008, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the support Corvid. I hope everyone else that uses the Iron Defenders (or at least finds them fun and amusing) comes and supports the thread as well.

Oh you mean that odd dozen or so? :D

Coldin
01-10-2008, 03:10 PM
Oh you mean that odd dozen or so? :D

Hehe, from what I've seen, a dozen might be a little generous. :)

Turial
01-10-2008, 03:14 PM
I support all our metalic breatheren be they warforged or defender doggies. The addition of the adamantine defender would be a nice cap or next step for the enhancement line without being to powerful. Honestly they are some of the best summons in the game.

MrCow
01-10-2008, 03:17 PM
I know my stealth wizard would like yet another metallic puppy per rest. They make good diversions.

Blind_Skwerl
01-10-2008, 03:17 PM
I have seen 3 people using these. One was just trying it and quickly decided to stop using them. One was convinced by multiple party members to stop using them with us. The last was dropped from group after continually bringing the dog out with a mostly caster party in multiple dungeons, after repeated requests to not use them.

Ringos
01-10-2008, 03:22 PM
/signed


I only support this because I think it's funny as heck. At least MOST of the time your metal mutt doesn't put ME on my backside. I was glad to help with your research last night (although I'm not a Slayer!). I was wondering what you were up to when you typed: Please don't kill the ad defenders. I would like to perform reasearch on them'. I can only imagine what the discussion would be if you had voice instead of typing everything!

Eladrin
01-10-2008, 03:34 PM
Who's a good doggy? Why you are! Yes you are!

Ugh, it slobbered on me.

I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

Beherit_Baphomar
01-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Addy defenders should spew heightened, extended grease every 5 seconds!

Ringos
01-10-2008, 03:46 PM
Who's a good doggy? Why you are! Yes you are!

Ugh, it slobbered on me.

I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

Tell me the truth...is it because of my support? (if so, Coldin owes me BIG!)

Coldin
01-10-2008, 03:48 PM
Who's a good doggy? Why you are! Yes you are!

Ugh, it slobbered on me.

I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

Thank you so much Eladrin! I'm sure my companions will be relieved to know there will be another defender joining their midst. :D

And a quick thanks to the people that's posted so far supporting more defenders.

Edit: I am curious about how soon we can expect to see another Iron Companion enhancement. I assume it's too late to see one for Mod 6?

Tyrande
01-10-2008, 04:24 PM
Only if they do something other than grease every 10 seconds!

It would be nice if what the defenders are spewing can be configured. i.e. spewing acid, spewing sonic, spewing force (more expensive!), spewing grease...

How about golems? I know there are lots of different golems already in DDO.



Iron Golem
Summons a CR 13 Iron Golem to fight for you once per rest for 5 minutes.

Cost: 4 Action Points

Prerequisites:
Action Points Spent: 50

Adamantine Defender
Warforged Mechanics III OR
Lesser Dragonmark of Making OR
Fighter Repair III OR
Rogue Way of the Mechanic II

MrCow
01-10-2008, 04:29 PM
It would be nice if what the defenders are spewing can be configured. i.e. spewing acid, spewing sonic, spewing force (more expensive!), spewing grease...

Can it spew sleet storms, disco balls, and walls of kobolds too? :D

Mad_Bombardier
01-10-2008, 04:35 PM
It would be nice if what the defenders are spewing can be configured. i.e. spewing acid, spewing sonic,Oooh, oooh! A Shrieking Defender like the ones from Foundation of Discord. Surely at least one such model was recovered and smuggled for House Cannith tinkerer to reverse engineer!

Rommalb
01-10-2008, 04:36 PM
As I told Coldin earlier, I sign this only on the pre-text the rest of the party members can kill those infernal little things. I sure know Ive tried enough from running with Coldin...

That being said, giving the defenders more attacks besides just grease would be good too. I know Mithral can spew fire, but its a fairly weak attack against most mobs from what Ive seen, force is probably the best bet

Coldin
01-10-2008, 04:56 PM
Oooh, oooh! A Shrieking Defender like the ones from Foundation of Discord. Surely at least one such model was recovered and smuggled for House Cannith tinkerer to reverse engineer!

I completely forgot about the shrieking defenders. Those would actually be really nice to see implemented too.

GeneralDiomedes
01-10-2008, 05:23 PM
The dogs should come with a control box. When you Use the dog, a dialog box pops up which allows you to change the breath weapon ..

1) STR dmg poison
2) Grease
3) Fire (like the ones in Reclamation)
4) Needs a milk bone pronto! (save or be Nauseated)

Mad_Bombardier
01-10-2008, 05:34 PM
4) Needs a milk bone pronto! (save or be Nauseated)"Trog Fart in a can!" :D

sirgog
01-10-2008, 09:07 PM
"Trog Fart in a can!" :D

LOL

fefnir3284
01-10-2008, 09:41 PM
can someone help me out here? I still dont see any reason to spend all those APs on a 5 minute summons. Now correct me if I am wrong. One can UMD a summon 7 scroll (which lasts for 7 mins) all day long, but can only summon there pet ONCE per rest and for only 5 minutes AND you have to spend 6 AP (plus 3/4 more or a feat) to get the best one. I know I dont have that many extra Aps just sitting around. so why?

MrCow
01-10-2008, 09:54 PM
why?

Because sometimes it isn't about being the most efficient or the most practical. Also, I have found many uses for this line on certain builds because the doggy doesn't break invisibility, making for an excellent decoy and a very useful investment on stealth builds (yeah, a mostly lost art for most groups). Rogues can also use said doggy to get and maintain sneak attacks better when used in conjunction with diplomacy. When you have the latest doggy they tend to last the entire 5 minutes if you don't do quests above the dog's level. Its the type of enhancement that can provide many bonuses so long as you put some creativity into it.

fefnir3284
01-10-2008, 10:15 PM
When you have the latest doggy they tend to last the entire 5 minutes if you don't do quests above the dog's level.

see, now this is a HUGE problem as the only character that would get it is level 14 and always does elite quests, level 16+, so there really is no point, and Im all about the story. plus 6 pts still equals 1 summons. it would be so much better if it was 1 ap per level or a cumulative summoning. 2ap = 1 summon, 4 = 2, and 6 = 3. that i can see as all quests at higher levels last far longer than 5 minutes per shrine (and if they dont its usually a blitz)

Coldin
01-10-2008, 10:37 PM
can someone help me out here? I still dont see any reason to spend all those APs on a 5 minute summons. Now correct me if I am wrong. One can UMD a summon 7 scroll (which lasts for 7 mins) all day long, but can only summon there pet ONCE per rest and for only 5 minutes AND you have to spend 6 AP (plus 3/4 more or a feat) to get the best one. I know I dont have that many extra Aps just sitting around. so why?

Because we love our iron companions!


But for a more serious answer, I'll break it down for you.

Not everyone can UMD Summon Monster VII scrolls.

Iron Companions are much tougher than spell summons.

5 minute summons are very useful at lower levels.

They're a good filler enhancement while waiting for other enhancements.



see, now this is a HUGE problem as the only character that would get it is level 14 and always does elite quests, level 16+, so there really is no point

Well, a level 14 character doesn't not always run elite quests. But this is why I started this thread. So those that use the iron companions could get another, more powerful, defender to use. Plus, even my mithral defender has helped on those elite quests. No, it's not super powerful, but with some buffs, it endures and it deals some damage. And it provides some comedic flare. :)

Talish
01-10-2008, 10:40 PM
Who's a good doggy? Why you are! Yes you are!

Ugh, it slobbered on me.

I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

Woohoo!!!! My wf fighter/wizzie loves her Fluffy. :D

MrCow
01-10-2008, 10:41 PM
2ap = 1 summon, 4 = 2, and 6 = 3

Interestingly enough this is true. You can summon 1 Iron Companion, 1 Steel Companion, and 1 Mithril Companion per rest (when you get mithril companion). Its probably not the way of three summons you are referring to (3 Mithril Companions), but it is 3 doggies for 6 AP invested in the Companion line. :)

Hvymetal
01-11-2008, 02:30 AM
Also my WF Wizard loves his dog, why? 1. I can repair him w/ spells/wands I carry anyways, 2. It ****es off my fellow party members. Did I mention it ****es off my fellow party members? :)

Wulf_Ratbane
01-11-2008, 09:40 AM
I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

I love my dog-- all my characters now automatically take Self Sufficient at 1st level, so that I can solo for a while. When I don't need the dog anymore, I just use a Flawed Shard to swap out that feat.

Regarding the AI, I would love it if the dog didn't spew grease unless he was having a hard time hitting his opponents, or if he was taking a lot of damage. For the most part, the dog has the chops to rip apart just about any level-equivalent foe.

Ringos
01-11-2008, 10:37 AM
I completely forgot about the shrieking defenders. Those would actually be really nice to see implemented too.

Needs more research Coldin!

Makdar
01-11-2008, 10:44 AM
Why exactly does the dog only spew grease? Wouldn't it be more effective if it had a rear-side attack as well? That way if the party members were trying to smartly stay behind the brave dog, they could still get hit with grease when, say for instance, the dog passes a tree that it likes.

At the very least, a high-level defender would have a dual-grease attack mode covering front and rear-side and effectively rendering all without spiked boots helpless.

After Addy Defender, I think the next step in the enhancement line should be named Wonderdog!

VonBek
01-11-2008, 10:44 AM
I've been in a party where everyone summoned "something". It's pretty odd having so many "pets" accompanying us. But, it was FUN! So...


/SIGNED

Sigmoid
01-11-2008, 10:47 AM
I've found that summoned monsters is a positive with the play style of me and my friends, regardless of how you get them. I use the metal dogs line with two of my characters, including a 9th level Cleric (8)/Paladin (1) and a low level sorecer (3rd). They really help in soloing as long as your careful when you get one as they attack and pull agro and allow you do whatever you need to do without interference. The Mithral dog doesn't spit grease, but even grease is ok if you know it's going to happen. My dog causes monsters to sit more than it does my party members. So while annoying, it can help. I'm not a fan of zerging, but when we do move fast, the doggies stay home.

Turial
01-11-2008, 10:49 AM
It would be interesting if the iron companion line took a page from the dragonmark book and each additional level of the enhancement allowed you to summon an additional dog from the level below for a total of 3, 2, 1. That would give a nice bit of functionality to the companions. I also like the idea of being able to set their drool to a specific type. Personally I would set mine to acid and call it good.

lostdrow
01-11-2008, 10:54 AM
I would love to see them use cone of cold.

Baervan
01-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I support this suggestion, those dogs are a fun enhancement (when they work). Improvements to the existing defender are needed first though to fix their dopey pathing (maybe even give us a "here boy" clickie to use when the dog stops following) and the defender attacking using claws vs using oil attack ratio needs to be reworked as other people have noted.

Solmage
01-15-2008, 11:22 AM
Who's a good doggy? Why you are! Yes you are!

Ugh, it slobbered on me.

I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

I *loved* my dogs.. but I had to get rid of them because my parties hated them :( (oh and I needed the feat .. sigh. I still miss them..)

Can you please get rid of the grease and change it into a simple bite+trip attack, a la worgs? That alone would be a marvelous improvement.

Other ideas if you're feeling fanciful:

lvl 1 dog: color spray-like breath. Useful at all levels, hypnotizes/stuns whatever it hits
lvl 2 dog: bite trip attack + rake (3-4 attacks if the critter falls down and gets attacked, hard to dodge)
lvl 3 dog: fire breath, sneak attack
lvl 4 dog: whatever + fireshield

Solmage
01-15-2008, 11:24 AM
can someone help me out here? I still dont see any reason to spend all those APs on a 5 minute summons. Now correct me if I am wrong. One can UMD a summon 7 scroll (which lasts for 7 mins) all day long, but can only summon there pet ONCE per rest and for only 5 minutes AND you have to spend 6 AP (plus 3/4 more or a feat) to get the best one. I know I dont have that many extra Aps just sitting around. so why?

1) Unlike all other summons, except maybe the level 14 one, these ones are actually useful. (Which makes sense since you are afterall spending APs for them!) and a GREAT help when lower level.

2) You can summon one of each, although the weak one is pretty useless past level x, the medium one retains some usability for a good while.

3) Main downside: Not so useful if you're a melee or are in a group, since they'll grease.. which is nice if you're ranging, but horrible if you're a low dex melee.

I also needed my APs, but I found them a worthwhile investment when soloing/duoing. Just couldn't justify the APs + feat past level 9 or so, where most of the time you are grouped and they'll kill you for summoning anything that casts grease.

Hvymetal
01-15-2008, 12:03 PM
Hmmm after carefull consideration I'd like to ask the Dev's if they could please double the output of grease my little adamantine familiar puts out? I think it would both double the annoyance factor in my parties thus doubling my enjoyment factor of them :D And could we also please get them to randomly have accidents when there are no mobs around and say we are just moving from point A to point B, say hypothetically when we are crossing a narrow ledge or bridge or somesuch above Lava.

And for more added fun can we please summon them in town? I think me and my familiar would like to take a trip down to the mailbox in the harbor:cool:

Mad_Bombardier
01-15-2008, 12:16 PM
And could we also please get them to randomly have accidents when there are no mobs around and say we are just moving from point A to point B, say hypothetically when we are crossing a narrow ledge or bridge or somesuch above Lava.No, but you can carry Grease clickies and blame the dog. You know, kinda like you do when you fart in a crowded room. :D

Ironwind
01-15-2008, 01:06 PM
No, but you can carry Grease clickies and blame the dog. You know, kinda like you do when you fart in a crowded room. :D

LOL.
Now that is just evil!

Hvymetal
01-15-2008, 06:08 PM
No, but you can carry Grease clickies and blame the dog. You know, kinda like you do when you fart in a crowded room. :DShhhh I hope no one I know read this.....:cool:

Coldin
05-06-2008, 11:07 AM
I don't see a reason not to add an additional upgrade to the Iron Companion line, and perhaps look into improving their training (er, AI) a bit to reduce the drool-factor a little.

Sorry to necro the thread, but I've been wondering what ever happened with this? Because according to Q's post, there's not much more coming than what's already been announced.

Now, I realize that work on the Monk is probably taking up a bunch of time, but this was over 3 months ago and there's still no word on any upgrades to the Iron Companion line. Since Adamantine Defenders (and Shrieking Defenders) already exist, it shouldn't be much a challenge to extend the line out at least 2 more enhancements.

Really, it was already a small problem back when I first suggested extending the line and we were level 14. But now that we're running level 16 quests, a CR 9 Mithral Defender, summonable only once per day, is just not very capable. The whole line just becomes practically obsolete, and that's just a shame. It's a nice enhancement line for flavor, it's good for soloists, and they're kinda unique. Please don't forget the Iron Companions.