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View Full Version : Do We Even Really Want Half-Elves? Really?



Twerpp
01-09-2008, 10:09 PM
I mean geez they are so overpowered! Just like elves but no stat increase! I mean uhh, just like humans but they give up that silly bonus feat and skill point for the AWESOME ability of being immune to sleep!!! I mean, youve got to roll like, an 11 to save vs sleep! Or have SR 13!!

Hehe all joking aside, who would actually roll one of these and stick it out? They'd have to have some killer enhancements for me to roll one. Ive played a ton of D&D campaigns and video games and have yet to roll one. Hell I even boot them out of the party if the storyline allows (hello, Jaheira!?) !

Pellegro
01-09-2008, 10:23 PM
I mean geez they are so overpowered! Just like elves but no stat increase! I mean uhh, just like humans but they give up that silly bonus feat and skill point for the AWESOME ability of being immune to sleep!!! I mean, youve got to roll like, an 11 to save vs sleep! Or have SR 13!!

Hehe all joking aside, who would actually roll one of these and stick it out? They'd have to have some killer enhancements for me to roll one. Ive played a ton of D&D campaigns and video games and have yet to roll one. Hell I even boot them out of the party if the storyline allows (hello, Jaheira!?) !

Just wait til' you see the dragonmarks man, the dragonmarks .... ;)

Citymorg
01-09-2008, 10:35 PM
I mean geez they are so overpowered! Just like elves but no stat increase! I mean uhh, just like humans but they give up that silly bonus feat and skill point for the AWESOME ability of being immune to sleep!!! I mean, youve got to roll like, an 11 to save vs sleep! Or have SR 13!!

Hehe all joking aside, who would actually roll one of these and stick it out? They'd have to have some killer enhancements for me to roll one. Ive played a ton of D&D campaigns and video games and have yet to roll one. Hell I even boot them out of the party if the storyline allows (hello, Jaheira!?) !

/signed

KatanAztar
01-09-2008, 10:39 PM
Im planning 8/7/1 barb cleric rogue multiclass for my half elf to compliment its already superior stats. Its gonna be so uber, you'll see.

MysticTheurge
01-09-2008, 11:15 PM
Racial abilities mean surprisingly little in DDO.

It's all about the enhancements.

Edit -- For example, here's a few I whipped up last time someone said adding Half-elves is pointless.

Half-Elves

Listen I, II, III: Self Explanatory.
Search I, II, III: Self Explanatory.
Spot I, II, III: Self Explanatory.
Diplomacy I, II, III: Self Explanatory.
Lyrander Balance I, II, III: Dragonmarked skill bonuses.
Medani Spot I, II, III: Dragonmarked skill bonuses.

Heroic Destiny I, II, III: As Human Versatility, but just Attack, Saves and Skill Checks.

Fearless Destiny: As the rogue special ability, Defensive Roll. (Assuming Eladrin works it out before we see Half-elves) Requires Heroic Destiny III.

Melee Attack I: +1 to hit with longswords and rapiers.
Melee Damage I: +1 to damage with longswords and rapiers.

Ranged Attack I: +1 to hit with longbows and shortbows.
Ranged Damage I: +1 to damage with longbows and shortbows

Human Heritage: You can equip items which are Race Required: Human without a UMD check.

Confusing Banter I: You gain a +1 bonus to hit against enemies which are under the effects of a diplomacy or bluff check you made.
Confusing Banter II: You gain a +2 bonus to hit against enemies which are under the effects of a diplomacy or bluff check you made.
Confusing Banter II: You gain a +3 bonus to hit against enemies which are under the effects of a diplomacy or bluff check you made.

Investigator I: The time it takes you to search and disarm traps is reduced by 10%.
Investigator II: The time it takes you to search and disarm traps is reduced by 25%.
Investigator III: The time it takes you to search and disarm traps is reduced by 50%.

sigtrent
01-10-2008, 12:57 AM
I never liked half elves much, either in concept or game mechanics. They just seemed like a kludge to accomidate people that wanted to play Aragorn as a D&D character. :P

Why no half dwarves or half halfings etc... its silly. Elves are more alien than halflings why do they get exclusive interbrteeding abbility?

I don't do half elves in my games unless someone has their heart set on it. Same for half orcs. I just let people use the half orc stats and call them cultured orcs and be done with it. I usualy like to go with the various races as being very distinct both culturaly and biologicaly rather than various branches of mankind.

SilverSong
01-10-2008, 02:33 AM
I am very happy they are adding Half-Elves in, it is one of the main races I play when I play PnP. There a lot of things they could add in to make them a very playable race in DDO, without them being either under or over powered.

Emili
01-10-2008, 03:59 AM
Why not... it just adds to our choices. There should not be any significant races of choice for anything... so there should be as many races as can be.

Shade
01-10-2008, 04:28 AM
Nope no we don't.
Sucky race that is a total
Waste of developement time.

Scrap em and put more focus into Half-Orc.

Arianrhod
01-10-2008, 06:37 AM
Nope no we don't.
Sucky race that is a total
Waste of developement time.

Scrap em and put more focus into Half-Orc.

Hey, maybe YOU don't want them, that doesn't mean WE don't.
Half-elves are an important race in Eberron, one of the 2 that can have more than one dragonmark.
I'd rather have Kalashtar & Shifters, but half-elves aren't a waste.

Grond
01-10-2008, 07:14 AM
I never liked half elves much, either in concept or game mechanics. They just seemed like a kludge to accomidate people that wanted to play Aragorn as a D&D character. :P



Umm... Aragorn was a Man. Elros and Elrond were the Half-Elven, there were 23 kings in Numenor before it fell (starting with Elros, who chose the Fate of Man), and 42 kings and chieftains in the Northern Line from Elendil to Aragorn II. So, that's 60-65 generations removed from 'half-elf.'

Yukiko
01-10-2008, 07:25 AM
Bashing the new races the Devs are working on is a sure fire way to encourage them to come out with a new race.... right? ;)

Thats like crying about a free $20 bill because its a little banged up.
Sure drives me to make new content for other people.

Mercules
01-10-2008, 07:32 AM
I never liked half elves much, either in concept or game mechanics. They just seemed like a kludge to accomidate people that wanted to play Aragorn as a D&D character. :P

Interesting thought considering Aragorn is not half-elven. Elrond is, but not Aragorn.

Dailus
01-10-2008, 07:45 AM
I
Why no half dwarves or half halfings etc...
Actually the Darksun Caimpaign setting had a dwarf-human hybrid called "Muls". Guess they weren't all that popular.

-Dailus

EinarMal
01-10-2008, 08:06 AM
My thought on half elfs or any race is along the lines of MT, it is really easy to make them attractive with enhancements.

My version of half elfs have khopesh as their favored weapon (they get it for free) and their racial enhancements for weapons are for khopesh.

See not so bad now....

Griphon
01-10-2008, 08:35 AM
Why no half dwarves or half halfings etc... its silly. Elves are more alien than halflings why do they get exclusive interbrteeding abbility?


Half Dwarves = Muls. They did exist at one point, amigo. Darksun had a race of them... Strongly muscled and bald! They were a slave race to boot. Made great Gladiators...

Half Halflings.... Uh...Can't help this one. I've got no memory of a Half-Halfling. And would they be called Quarterlings? Would they be about 3/4ths the size of a man? Uh.. Isn't that a Dwarf? :) D'oh. We just figured out where Dwarves came from!

MysticTheurge
01-10-2008, 08:40 AM
Half Dwarves = Muls. They did exist at one point, amigo. Darksun had a race of them... Strongly muscled and bald! They were a slave race to boot. Made great Gladiators...

Half Halflings.... Uh...Can't help this one. I've got no memory of a Half-Halfling. And would they be called Quarterlings? Would they be about 3/4ths the size of a man? Uh.. Isn't that a Dwarf? :) D'oh. We just figured out where Dwarves came from!

Does that make Muls 7/8thlings?

Yukiko
01-10-2008, 08:40 AM
I agree, the half elf can be made to be very fun to play. Also i like the look of half elfs :D
Sometimes "Role Rlaying" can be fun in D&D :p

In the end, any good player will tell you the stats alone don't make a good Chr.

Mercules
01-10-2008, 09:11 AM
Half Dwarves = Muls. They did exist at one point, amigo. Darksun had a race of them... Strongly muscled and bald! They were a slave race to boot. Made great Gladiators...

Half Halflings.... Uh...Can't help this one. I've got no memory of a Half-Halfling. And would they be called Quarterlings? Would they be about 3/4ths the size of a man? Uh.. Isn't that a Dwarf? :) D'oh. We just figured out where Dwarves came from!

The Darksun campaign setting also had a fluff book that was all about an Elfling which was a mix of Elf and Halfling. Now in Darksun elves are nomadic raiders/traders/thieves and Halflings are cannibals and somewhat feral so I'd love to know just how that took place.

Yaga_Nub
01-10-2008, 09:15 AM
Hey, maybe YOU don't want them, that doesn't mean I don't.
Half-elves are an important race in Eberron, one of the 2 that can have more than one dragonmark.
I'd rather have Kalashtar & Shifters, but half-elves aren't a waste.

Fixed that.

I don't really care one way or the other.

So there are some WE's that want them, some WE's that don't want them, and some WE's that don't care one way or the other.

I'm sure there are other WE's as well.

bellack
01-10-2008, 09:21 AM
I mean geez they are so overpowered! Just like elves but no stat increase! I mean uhh, just like humans but they give up that silly bonus feat and skill point for the AWESOME ability of being immune to sleep!!! I mean, youve got to roll like, an 11 to save vs sleep! Or have SR 13!!

Hehe all joking aside, who would actually roll one of these and stick it out? They'd have to have some killer enhancements for me to roll one. Ive played a ton of D&D campaigns and video games and have yet to roll one. Hell I even boot them out of the party if the storyline allows (hello, Jaheira!?) !

I would. One of my favorite pnp characters is a half-elf. One I did recreate him in DDO but had to make him an elf, if they do add the 1/2 elf then I will recreate the character. I don't like to min-max so I could care less if my 1/2 elf may not have as many feats as another race or that his racial skills may not be as good as another race. I never create a character with the stats in mind. I usually try to recreate PnP characters that I loved to play. So what if I'm not the best uber wizard in the game or the strongest fighter etc.
I'll usually create a character that would be an unlikely combination like a Halfling fighter, or a 1/2 Orc Mage stuff like that.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2008, 09:23 AM
In PnP one of the strengths of the half elves over humans is the low light vision. That can be invaluable in so many situations and is well worth the loss of a feat compared to human if you plan to play a sneaky type.

Now since apparently there are no unlit rooms in this game....not so much of a difference.

dragnmoon
01-10-2008, 09:25 AM
1/2 Elfs to me are one of the most useless races in the PnP game..

They would really have to have good enhancements to make up for it in DDO

Hvymetal
01-10-2008, 09:28 AM
Bah, now when 1/2 Ogres get to the game I'll get interested:)

MrCow
01-10-2008, 09:31 AM
Would I play a half-elf? No... but to be fair I never played a human, halfling, dwarf, elf, or drow either. ;)

Am I in support of half-elves? Yes, because one of my ears is slightly pointed and the other is round. My ears would hate me if I wasn't in support of them. :D

bellack
01-10-2008, 09:38 AM
I never liked half elves much, either in concept or game mechanics. They just seemed like a kludge to accomidate people that wanted to play Aragorn as a D&D character. :P

Why no half dwarves or half halfings etc... its silly. Elves are more alien than halflings why do they get exclusive interbrteeding abbility?

I don't do half elves in my games unless someone has their heart set on it. Same for half orcs. I just let people use the half orc stats and call them cultured orcs and be done with it. I usualy like to go with the various races as being very distinct both culturaly and biologicaly rather than various branches of mankind.

I have no idea what Aragon (a human ranger) would have to do with 1/2 elves. When I play my 1/2 Elf I am not playing him because I want to play Aragon. 1/2 Elves have been around since the beginning I don't find them silly nor do a lot of people. Oh and there are 1/2 Dwarfs they are called Muls in Darksun. I say the more variety the better and elves are very closely related to Humans so it would make since that there are offspring of both races.

bellack
01-10-2008, 09:41 AM
Nope no we don't.
Sucky race that is a total
Waste of developement time.

Scrap em and put more focus into Half-Orc.

I say add ALL the races. Why is 1/2 elf a waste of development time and 1/2 orcs not?

You make no sense at all. I want both races so for me the development time is not wasted.

MrCow
01-10-2008, 09:45 AM
Well, half-elves with there lack of defining powerful traits, do not appeal to power gamers. Half-orcs, with their higher STR compared to other races, on the other hand, show something useful to a power gamer.

Bekki
01-10-2008, 09:45 AM
I never liked half elves much, either in concept or game mechanics. They just seemed like a kludge to accomidate people that wanted to play Aragorn as a D&D character. :P

Why no half dwarves or half halfings etc... its silly. Elves are more alien than halflings why do they get exclusive interbrteeding abbility?

I don't do half elves in my games unless someone has their heart set on it. Same for half orcs. I just let people use the half orc stats and call them cultured orcs and be done with it. I usualy like to go with the various races as being very distinct both culturaly and biologicaly rather than various branches of mankind.

In the Dark Sun realm they actually HAD, HALF DWARVES!!!
They were known as MUL's (Pronounced "Mules" I believe)
however they were not allowed to breed.

As for Halflings and Gnomes etc.
To my knowledge it has never been addressed.

I myself like half- elves and I have had a number of them in Pen&Paper D&D.

It is not so much that they are any more or less powerfull than any other class;
but more so that they add flavor to the game.

The half-orc raised on the street because they were considered an outcast.

The Iligitimite Half Elven heir of an Eleven noble who rises to hero status despite
being denied his birthright.

The Child of Destiny, a half Elven hero who alone
is the only one who can defeat a particular Great evil foe...
Because he/she is Neither Elf NOR HUMAN!!!

Characters are more than just their stats on paper.

It is the story woven behind the character that makes them who they are.

Among the Characters I have had in Pen&Paper...

I have had;

Streetrats
Nobles
outcasts
Runaways
hired killers
barbarians of many varieties...
mercenarys
Heroic Warriors

And many others...

I have played just about every race and class in the game.
It is the variety that makes this game so great.

I think half Elves and Half Orcs would be a cool addition.

More variety for more fun.

Just my 2Cp's.

Mad_Bombardier
01-10-2008, 10:23 AM
In the Dark Sun realm they actually HAD, HALF DWARVES!!!
They were known as MUL's (Pronounced "Mules" I believe)
however they were not allowed to breed.Yup, Mul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_%28fantasy_race%29) (half-dwarf) was one of my favorite races from Darksun. (They were sterile halfbreeds that could not breed.)

P.S. Darksun also had half-giants! :) What a wild and crazy world.

MysticTheurge
01-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Yup, Mul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mul_%28fantasy_race%29) (half-dwarf) was one of my favorite races from Darksun. (They were sterile halfbreeds that could not breed.)

Kind of like.... Mules. ;)

Beherit_Baphomar
01-10-2008, 10:30 AM
I had a brilliant idea....listen...gimme a sec...

...stay with me....Half-human's!! Half human, half elf!!

Im thinking they could add them at the same time as half-elves...give us another playable race!

Arianrhod
01-10-2008, 10:32 AM
Fixed that.

I don't really care one way or the other.

So there are some WE's that want them, some WE's that don't want them, and some WE's that don't care one way or the other.

I'm sure there are other WE's as well.

I see you've made my point for me (which was, don't put words in my mouth).
Perhaps I should have just gone with my original phrasing - Speak for yourself, because you can't really speak for anyone else.

ZarakNur
01-10-2008, 10:43 AM
The Mark of Storm alone makes them worthwhile.

nuff said.

Kire
01-10-2008, 10:51 AM
I want a half-troll. That would be fun.

~Kire

sigtrent
01-10-2008, 10:53 AM
To somewhow answer for my crime I would point out that many who wanted to play Numenorians in a D&D game wen't for half elf as they have a longer life span etc... Also because the founder of that race was a half elf who favored thier human half (Elrond favored the elven half). So while Elrond was half elven, he pretty much was all elf. Numenorians are half elven favoring human, but they have a lot of elven traits in them like long life, superior "genetics' etc. Be they wrong or not, many folks I've known in my sorted gaming past who wanted to play aragor, (many of whom went ahead and just called their character "strider") chose half elf. It was clear in LOTR that Aragorn was part elf, it is only in Silmarilian we get the full skinny on who bred with who. Not everyone reads the silmarilian since it can be hella dull at times.

How about dwarf elves or halfing gnomes or orc elves etc... etc... etc....
Honestly half elves are about the most boring of them.
Take a race that is essentialy a lot like a long lived human with pointy ears and fancy jewelry and breed it witha race that is a human with rounded ears to geta slightly non human less long lived race wtih pointy ears. Zzzzzzzzzz

I'll admit I've got a bias agaisnt them from a world building standpoint. I really want the races to be alien to one another on many levels and not just a mash up of psudohumans. In my own campaign setting elves are immortal fey from planet/moon that orbits the world where the stories take place. They are beings of intense magic that are created by magic rather than bred. Humans are also from another world. They were immortal once but cursed with short lives to prevent them from utter dominance of the other races and as a result thir home plane/world is a kind of mad necropolis. And so on...

I don't want to say half-elves are bad for everyone... just that I don't happen to like them and thing the whole idea is silly because it is so isolated. I was disapointed they would ditch gnomes from 4th edition but keep half elves.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-10-2008, 11:06 AM
I want a half-troll. That would be fun.

~Kire

lol, lots of those are already in game...full trolls too... just hang out in the forums to play one :D

Yaga_Nub
01-10-2008, 11:09 AM
I want a half-troll. That would be fun.

~Kire

What would the other half be? :)

ahpook
01-10-2008, 11:09 AM
I had a brilliant idea....listen...gimme a sec...

...stay with me....Half-human's!! Half human, half elf!!

Im thinking they could add them at the same time as half-elves...give us another playable race!

/so totally signed.

Although it will take a LOT more development time (half-human vs half-elf = 25% more characters to type, that's gonna add up) I think it would be worth it.

muffinlad
01-10-2008, 11:21 AM
Another voice in favor of Half Elves.

More choice = Better.


muffinchooser

kingfisher
01-10-2008, 11:27 AM
half elves and half-orcs will both be nice. I will go with the half-orc first just for the tusks. doesn't adding the new races mean they have to add npc's in stormreach too?

lenric
01-10-2008, 11:29 AM
I personally do not want half-elves right now....I want gnomes. I am dissapointed that they are not a core race in 4.0 but I think there is no funner thing to play than a gnome wizard. I think gnomes should get inducted into DDO before half elves. In fact Mystic Theurge could you give us an enhancment possibility breakdown for gnomes?

MysticTheurge
01-10-2008, 11:33 AM
In fact Mystic Theurge could you give us an enhancment possibility breakdown for gnomes?

I could probably come up some Gnome enhancements, but not without access to my books. I'll try to work some up later.

WeaselKing
01-10-2008, 11:39 AM
I have no interest in half-elves myself but I know my guild leader (leader of two of my guilds) is dying for half-elves so he can recreate his LARP character a half-elf bard.

Yukiko
01-10-2008, 11:40 AM
Yea, half elfs would be a cool addition.

Any way you cut it, its still a great advancement in flavor for the game.
Gives us more options.

Honestly, half orcs are something i would rater not play because they tend to be a little on the ugly side.
But it would be cool to see them as a playable race.

Furgulder
01-10-2008, 11:41 AM
half elves = teh suck.


shifters
khalashtar
half orcs
gnomes
aasimar


all better choices for races

Yukiko
01-10-2008, 11:54 AM
I keep seeing a lot of "This Sucks" "What you doing is a waste of time" "What are you guys thinkig anyway" going around the forum...

People are starting to get very sick of it and the back lash these negitive people are going to get for harassing the Dev team is going to catch up with them before long. I would not be at all surpised if one day a Dev shows you the door...

Is ok to disagree with people or Devs, but watch the tone.

You get a frown face :mad:

Ciaran
01-10-2008, 12:10 PM
I mean geez they are so overpowered! Just like elves but no stat increase! I mean uhh, just like humans but they give up that silly bonus feat and skill point for the AWESOME ability of being immune to sleep!!! I mean, youve got to roll like, an 11 to save vs sleep! Or have SR 13!!

Hehe all joking aside, who would actually roll one of these and stick it out? They'd have to have some killer enhancements for me to roll one. Ive played a ton of D&D campaigns and video games and have yet to roll one. Hell I even boot them out of the party if the storyline allows (hello, Jaheira!?) !

I probably would - but honestly anything that add flavor and options to the game is a step in the right direction. Besides, maybe half-elves will have different aesthetic options available to them as well. Certainly they need to have compelling enhancements in an MMO, but yeah, variety is the spice of life.

Besides, Jaheira is awesome! Why on earth would you kick her out? :mad: Besides, she's better than whiney Aerie or Angsty, nobody understands me, I'm evil Viconia! :D

kingfisher
01-10-2008, 05:06 PM
wouldn't half-elves be a natural choice for a bard?

cdbd3rd
01-10-2008, 05:26 PM
The Darksun campaign setting also had a fluff book that was all about an Elfling which was a mix of Elf and Halfling. Now in Darksun elves are nomadic raiders/traders/thieves and Halflings are cannibals and somewhat feral so I'd love to know just how that took place.

Same as a lot of half-orcs happened - not always by choice.

Gratch
01-10-2008, 05:54 PM
If Turbine has a few races that require similar amounts of development effort that they are able to implement. They could put a poll in the game or more easily here on the forums.

I personally feel the game is too old at this point to go with something boring like half-elves when we already have had humans and elves for so long. I'd much rather see the - maybe as easy to implement Aasimar/Tieflings (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm), Trolls, Minotaurs or such. A lot more flavor and fun to my eyes.

Kire
01-10-2008, 05:56 PM
What would the other half be? :)

Half Troll/Half Ada defender. So i can have an insane crit range and spew grease at the same time!

~Kire

Vizzini
01-10-2008, 06:52 PM
Dunno I'd rather see some more Races specifically from the Ebberon world - I have to agree with the general consensus that they just don't really seem to have a very big place in Stormreach.. Much rather see the Shifter race, or Sanguine maybe..


Why not... it just adds to our choices. There should not be any significant races of choice for anything... so there should be as many races as can be.

adrinor
01-10-2008, 07:13 PM
I would like to see half-elves added to the game.

Twerpp
01-10-2008, 09:09 PM
BTW I kicked Aerie out too. She was a hottie but damn so whiny!

My opinion on the enhancement issue is... give us Planar Spoor as a playable race with an overpowered enhancement line and we will play it... there are just too many more diverse,interesting races out there that could be explored rather than something thats a cross between two we already have, with the benefits of neither. Im all about more options but Im sorry half-elves got no sex-appeal.

PS I would boot Tanis out of my party too, given the chance.

Invalid_86
01-10-2008, 09:47 PM
While I don't have anything against Half Elves per se they are one of the blander races that could be added. If you have to resort to enhancements to make them interesting that should probably say do a different race next.


PS I would boot Tanis out of my party too, given the chance.

I'd boot him out just for being from Krynn. I was not a fan of Dragonlance. But that's just personal bias.

Hvymetal
01-10-2008, 09:50 PM
While I don't have anything against Half Elves per se they are one of the blander races that could be added. If you have to resort to enhancements to make them interesting that should probably say do a different race next.
But the flip side of that, they are probablly one of the easier races they could add:)

MysticTheurge
01-10-2008, 10:46 PM
If you have to resort to enhancements to make them interesting that should probably say do a different race next.

It depends on what you mean by interesting.

Eberron fans will like half-elves because of their place in the setting, notably Houses Medani and Lyrandar.

Others will like half-elves just because they played a half-elf once in a campaign and had fun and so want to do it again.

But in terms of racial power, for the power-gaming set... it all depends on enhancements, regardless of what race you're talking about. Dwarves wouldn't be half as powerful as they are now if it weren't for their enhancements.

Invalid_86
01-10-2008, 11:19 PM
It depends on what you mean by interesting.

Eberron fans will like half-elves because of their place in the setting, notably Houses Medani and Lyrandar.

Others will like half-elves just because they played a half-elf once in a campaign and had fun and so want to do it again.

But in terms of racial power, for the power-gaming set... it all depends on enhancements, regardless of what race you're talking about. Dwarves wouldn't be half as powerful as they are now if it weren't for their enhancements.

Interesting as in something different. Half elves are basically more of the same. For how long we've been waiting for a new race half elves would be a disappointment. Plus just about any other race would look new and exciting, wherein half elves would be more "hey haven't we seen that before?".

Emili
01-11-2008, 05:15 AM
I have no interest in half-elves myself but I know my guild leader (leader of two of my guilds) is dying for half-elves so he can recreate his LARP character a half-elf bard.

There was a time in DnD (AD&D) where you had to be human or half-elf to be a bard... only a few guildies of mine know this but my Rosewood, my second DDO character I decided to make because of an old half-elf bard I made long ago in PnP.

While I agree with the people tought's that half-elf would be more the same... I do agree it is one of the easier races for DDO to toss together quickly. As for those looking for more powerful races... one thing to remember hear is that in PnP their truely are no extremes compared to what DDO offers now - ie.) Dwarven race are super melee here due to the enhancement lines turbine added, they really should be no better than any other class in thier favored class... same is true for a half-orc - really depends on how overboard turbine went on thier enhancement line to make them super powered barbs.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 07:43 AM
Interesting as in something different. Half elves are basically more of the same.

So how do you please people who wants "something different" and people who want "all the core stuff first" at the same time?

Namelessone
01-11-2008, 09:26 AM
All I have to say is that I am glad we are getting new races. They are already in the works, so I am glad we are getting them. Why do people continue to bite the hand that feeds us?

If someone said "Hey I am going to give you something," and you say "no, I don't want it. Go back and come up with something better. What your working on is a waste of time." Where is the sense in that?

This to me sounds unreasonable and unfair. There are many people that are very glad to be getting Half Elves, and Half Orcs. Both are a welcomed addition to DDO, and I plan on rolling new characters from both races. You will not find "I don't like em, they are boring and useless" comments from me. I will be saying "Thank you Devs for putting out new races for me to explore and have fun with."

Gornin
01-11-2008, 10:23 AM
In response to some questions about why only half elves and not other mixes, the reason half elves are more common than other mixes is due to Humans and Elves living in the same areas and having similar social conventions. Dwarves are some what insular and if I remember correctly, due to Dwarven constitution and genetics, any of the other core races breeding with a dwarf would still be a dwarf with only slight cosmetic variation.

Halflings and Gnomes stick to them selves, mostly due to the taller races treating them as children due to their size.

Half orcs - they are bred by evil factions as shock troops or are the result of conquest, but still not as common as Half elves.

You could still fashion mixes of other races if you wanted, but it would be usually unique.

Half elves are mostly about the role playing aspect of DnD, but do make decent representatives of any class.

Nothing new added to this game is a waste. It may need to be tweaked or altered, but any new race/class/spell/dungeon is never a waste IMO.

brshelton
01-11-2008, 10:24 AM
Just wait til' you see the dragonmarks man, the dragonmarks .... ;)

o man if they could take displacement and ddoor etc thatd be awesome on a fighter with all those feats.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 10:31 AM
o man if they could take displacement and ddoor etc thatd be awesome on a fighter with all those feats.

Half elves don't get access to the Human or Elven dragonmarks, they have their own lines.

House Medani's Mark of Detection and House Lyrandar's Mark of the Storm.

brshelton
01-11-2008, 11:31 AM
Half elves don't get access to the Human or Elven dragonmarks, they have their own lines.

House Medani's Mark of Detection and House Lyrandar's Mark of the Storm.

and they do what oh smart one demigod of DnD knowledge? (not meant mean or fecicious just a joke)

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 11:59 AM
and they do what oh smart one demigod of DnD knowledge?

Well, generally speaking House Medani kind of acts as bodyguards. The mark helps with things like detecting poison, seeing invisible creatures and other things along those lines.

I'd guess that the DDO version might use spells like Detect Secret Doors, See Invisibility or True Seeing.

House Lyrandar does two things, they have the "Rain Caller's Guild" which helps farmers out when there's a drought and other similarly boring stuff. Then they have the a guild that essentially runs all the Elemental Galleons (ships with bound water/air elementals to make them travel faster) and the Airships. The powers of the mark are generally weather related things like Gust of Wind and Control Weather.

I'd guess that the DDO versions might use spells like Obscuring Mist or Fog Cloud.

sigtrent
01-11-2008, 12:02 PM
Just for the record, I'm perfectly happy that they are adding half elves...

I just don't like them.


-------

That said, my DDO character Gabriazar is normaly a half elf. His back story is that his father was a woodsman who rescured an elf maiden from a troll. Taken with his courage and he with her beauty they married and made love in the forest glade...

But it turns out the woodsman is basicaly a boring and stupid man and the elven maiden's dreams of a brave hero are soon shattered. The moment her child is born she leaves them both to return to her homeland.

Gabriazar uses his elven good looks to woo all the local young maids including the mayors daughter and is eventualy run out of town for knocking her up. Before leaving he poisons the town well.

It was my attempt to create a deeply unsympathetic character that tunred the usual heroic backstory on its head a bit.

MysticRhythms
01-11-2008, 12:19 PM
I could do without half-elves AND monks in my DDO.

Mad_Bombardier
01-11-2008, 01:07 PM
I could do without half-elves AND monks in my DDO.What do you mean *could*? You DO do without them both! :D

redshirt
01-11-2008, 01:25 PM
Seems good to me.

It used to be that being a race other than man meant you could multi-class with simultaneous advancement in those classes (maybe modified by how much you used each). Dual classes (or more) is what humans could do, except you had to stop in one class and function almost exclusively in the new to make progress, but with easy exp limits. Since multi-classing is out and everything is a mix of multi/dual classing, everything of interest when it comes to race is in the enhancements.

(Race used to limit available classes as well, along with limits of level. I generally nuked those notions, let people be ANY race they wanted and just worked out some reasonable rules to follow. Half-elves are very useful... possibly getting more or less of the elf side, mixing infra-vision and added stealth, longer life, but being able to blend into more mundane human societies. Ninja/rouge/assassin, monk comes to mind.)

Oh and half-orc... similar ideas... brutal thug for hire.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 01:31 PM
multi-class vs . Dual classes

Race used to limit available classes as well, along with limits of level.

I will admit that I was overjoyed to see these two concepts trashed in third edition.

Nefahrin
01-11-2008, 01:37 PM
Nope no we don't.
Sucky race that is a total
Waste of developement time.

Scrap em and put more focus into Half-Orc.
Personally I'd prefer Half-Elves over Half-Orcs.
I've been playing half-elves in PnP since The early 80's and I was disappointed they were
not in DDO when I started.

Just because something isn't for you, whether it be a race, class, guild housing, clothing options, hair style changes,
whatever, doesn't make it a waste of developement time.

Sorry, but it's not for you to decide what is and isn't a waste of time and resources.

Yaga_Nub
01-11-2008, 01:41 PM
I will admit that I was overjoyed to see these two concepts trashed in third edition.

That was one guideline that I never followed because it never made sense to me.

Hafeal
01-11-2008, 01:44 PM
(Race used to limit available classes as well, along with limits of level. I generally nuked those notions, let people be ANY race they wanted and just worked out some reasonable rules to follow. Half-elves are very useful... possibly getting more or less of the elf side, mixing infra-vision and added stealth, longer life, but being able to blend into more mundane human societies. Ninja/rouge/assassin, monk comes to mind.)

Absolutely right. My first AD&D character was a multi-class half-elf (Fighter/Magic User/Thief). I loved that character. Based on DDO gameplay, though, it would not be a truly viable build.

GeneralDiomedes
01-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Well I hope they take some liberty with the core rules and add something useful. For Half-Elves this could be something like making Diplomacy a class skill for whatever class you take, and giving them part of their human lineage, i.e. and extra skill point per level.

Half-orcs could have a native Orc Rage similiar to Barb Rage.

Laith
01-11-2008, 02:04 PM
Well I hope they take some liberty with the core rules and add something useful. For Half-Elves this could be something like making Diplomacy a class skill for whatever class you take, and giving them part of their human lineage, i.e. and extra skill point per level....ability to use Human AND Elf/Drow items without UMD...

brshelton
01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
Well, generally speaking House Medani kind of acts as bodyguards. The mark helps with things like detecting poison, seeing invisible creatures and other things along those lines.

I'd guess that the DDO version might use spells like Detect Secret Doors, See Invisibility or True Seeing.

House Lyrandar does two things, they have the "Rain Caller's Guild" which helps farmers out when there's a drought and other similarly boring stuff. Then they have the a guild that essentially runs all the Elemental Galleons (ships with bound water/air elementals to make them travel faster) and the Airships. The powers of the mark are generally weather related things like Gust of Wind and Control Weather.

I'd guess that the DDO versions might use spells like Obscuring Mist or Fog Cloud.

you know way too much lol

Emili
01-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I will admit that I was overjoyed to see these two concepts trashed in third edition.

On the other hand that was an old check/balance in place to assure certain things were not just handed out on a silver platter.

Kronik
01-11-2008, 02:30 PM
I guess im the only one then, becasue I love the half-elf class.

A little under powered, but my favorite build is a half elf monk!

Matter of fact I got my name from my original PnP half-elf character Kron-Ik.

I will definately play the race and hopefully by that time the class too!!!!

Thanks Turbine!!!!

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 02:37 PM
On the other hand that was an old check/balance in place to assure certain things were not just handed out on a silver platter.

They always struck me as pure "fluff" decisions.

Like, dwarves aren't good wizards, so you can't make a dwarven wizard.

Hafeal
01-11-2008, 02:58 PM
They always struck me as pure "fluff" decisions.

Like, dwarves aren't good wizards, so you can't make a dwarven wizard.

I wouldn't call it "fluff". I would call it a blend of "what everyone knew" v. what the rules said.

Based on the state of fantasy literature and Tolkien's ever-present works lingering over the beginnings of D&D, I think many concepts went unstated in the early D&D and AD&D implementation. In fact, the last 30 years have been a constant effort to provide greater detail and variation. Nothing wrong with that.

I think people who played early on thought of certain races in the vein of what literature held them out to be - and dwarves, for example, had never been magic users in the literature of the time.

MysticTheurge
01-11-2008, 03:03 PM
I think people who played early on thought of certain races in the vein of what literature held them out to be - and dwarves, for example, had never been magic users in the literature of the time.

Right, that's what I was getting at.

All I meant by "fluff" was not "crunch." Which is to say, not so much rules based, as just role-play based.

MysticRhythms
01-11-2008, 05:16 PM
What do you mean *could*? You DO do without them both! :D

I know. I personally like it that way. The Devs would love me because I'd tell them to cease and desist all inclusion of half-elves and monks immediately and to work on actually GOOD races and classes ;)

Kronik
01-11-2008, 05:31 PM
I know. I personally like it that way. The Devs would love me because I'd tell them to cease and desist all inclusion of half-elves and monks immediately and to work on actually GOOD races and classes ;)

Typical Half-breed discrimination! Join the crowd buddy, Half-elfs are oucasts to both humans and elves. But I guess an elf with a beard is freak anyway you look at it.

I still cannot figure out what people think is wrong with a class that gets elven blood traits and doesnt have to take a hit in con.

Invalid_86
01-11-2008, 06:40 PM
So how do you please people who wants "something different" and people who want "all the core stuff first" at the same time?

Easy. Gnomes and Half Orcs.

Sure you could say that Gnomes may or may not be in 4.0 but they are in this edition, and Drow are not. So they have more of a claim to be in the game than a current race.