PDA

View Full Version : Re: Gnomes



salmag
01-08-2008, 07:59 PM
Has anyone heard any inkling of a release date regarding gnomes? Are they even going to be a race in DDO? They are a race in Ebberon as well as one of the very first in DnD.

In my PnP experience, which goes back to 1978, The only characters I have played were gnomes. I have been with this game and with the forums since before Alpha. I think three years is more than enough time waiting for core races, classes. I enjoy this game and would really hate to quit, so please if someone would give an estimated time.

DEVS, PLEASE RESPOND, PLEASE.

Coldin
01-08-2008, 08:20 PM
Nothing has been said about gnomes. I don't even remember a passing mention of them. The only races that I can recall being mentioned were Half-orcs and Hal-elves.

Mystictheurge might have a better memory.

GeneralDiomedes
01-08-2008, 08:23 PM
Gno.

Memnir
01-08-2008, 08:24 PM
It's too bad too... this being Festivult and all. It's well known that a Kobold's favorite song (and sauce) for the season is "There's No Race Like Gnome for the Hollandaise"...


:p

But really... although Gnomes are a core D&D race, and exist on Eberron, the Devs have not once made mention of including them in DDO. Half Orcs and Half Elves yes. Eventually. But not Gnomes. Poor Kobolds.

VampericX
01-08-2008, 08:31 PM
Well on top of gnomes i would love to see them add some sub races in.

Glenalth
01-08-2008, 08:31 PM
Has anyone heard any inkling of a release date regarding gnomes? Are they even going to be a race in DDO? They are a race in Ebberon as well as one of the very first in DnD.

In my PnP experience, which goes back to 1978, The only characters I have played were gnomes. I have been with this game and with the forums since before Alpha. I think three years is more than enough time waiting for core races, classes. I enjoy this game and would really hate to quit, so please if someone would give an estimated time.

DEVS, PLEASE RESPOND, PLEASE.

You're not going to like the 4th edition players handbook then...

Falco_Easts
01-08-2008, 08:41 PM
Gno.

ROFL

honkuimushi
01-09-2008, 04:18 AM
There was some talk on the open boards during beta and also shortly after release. The concensus was that the difficulty posed by their inherent spellcasting, their small size and lack of a well defined racial identity combined with a general lack of popularity made them a second tier race and that waiting wasn't a huge deal. Of course we though we would get them in a few months, a year or 2 at most. Since then, I haven't heard anything.

As was mentioned above, Gnomes are no longer a core race in 4.0. That might have have influenced the lack of urgency for their inclusion in DDO. Ironically, Eberron has the strongest roles for gnomes since Dragonlance. I would like to see them eventually, but gnomes kind of got left behind in 3.5.

Hvymetal
01-09-2008, 04:37 AM
I would love to see gnomes added, it would be an intermediary weight class between halfling and dwarf tossing:)

Ringos
01-09-2008, 09:10 AM
It's too bad too... this being Festivult and all. It's well known that a Kobold's favorite song (and sauce) for the season is "There's No Race Like Gnome for the Hollandaise"...


:p

But really... although Gnomes are a core D&D race, and exist on Eberron, the Devs have not once made mention of including them in DDO. Half Orcs and Half Elves yes. Eventually. But not Gnomes. Poor Kobolds.

*groan

Talon_Moonshadow
01-09-2008, 11:32 AM
Gnope!

maddmatt70
01-09-2008, 11:40 AM
I don't think it is too unreasonably for Turbine to create gnomes because well gnomes are very analagous to drow and elves. Just make a dwarf and tweak it toward a gnome just like they did with drow and elves....

It would be a nice ddo anniversary surprise present...

Xaymaca
01-09-2008, 11:42 AM
I play a gnome illusionist in PnP right now. I would like to see them in DDO. You know, just the garden-variety gnome.

DeadlyGazebo
01-09-2008, 11:59 AM
Has anyone heard any inkling of a release date regarding gnomes? Are they even going to be a race in DDO? They are a race in Ebberon as well as one of the very first in DnD.

In my PnP experience, which goes back to 1978, The only characters I have played were gnomes. I have been with this game and with the forums since before Alpha. I think three years is more than enough time waiting for core races, classes. I enjoy this game and would really hate to quit, so please if someone would give an estimated time.

DEVS, PLEASE RESPOND, PLEASE.

Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

Lorien_the_First_One
01-09-2008, 12:07 PM
Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

You read it here first folks, DG has promised us Gnomes and since clearly you can't have Gnomes without half dragons that means he also promissed us Dragon Disciple prestige class, all for the long term which clealry means July 08. :p

Pfamily
01-09-2008, 12:12 PM
It's too bad too... this being Festivult and all. It's well known that a Kobold's favorite song (and sauce) for the season is "There's No Race Like Gnome for the Hollandaise"...


Oooooooooooooooh........

Well done!

Taojeff
01-09-2008, 12:15 PM
You read it here first folks, DG has promised us Gnomes and since clearly you can't have Gnomes without half dragons that means he also promissed us Dragon Disciple prestige class, all for the long term which clealry means July 08. :p

Not to mention Dragonborn, come on it is a core race now....even if its not officially out yet. I expect Turbine to have it one day after it is released. :P

EspyLacopa
01-09-2008, 12:23 PM
The concensus was that the difficulty posed by their inherent spellcasting, their small size and lack of a well defined racial identity
Didn't stop them from adding Drow.

Heck, the Gnome spells wouldn't even have much use in DDO (Speak with Animals, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and Prestidigitation).
At least two of the Drow spells could have been useful (Darkness and Faerie Fire), and we didn't get those.

We already have 1 small race (halflings!)

As for racial identity. . .They're frequently the Tinkers. Crack open the Eberron Campaign Setting, you'll find that they're the ones with a Lust for Knowledge, and their homeland Zilargo is one of the big places for making the Airships. They are the diplomats and spies of Eberron. The amount of control the Gnomes have over Khorvaire is downright scary.

Gratch
01-09-2008, 01:09 PM
Couldn't we put some garden gnomes around House K or whichever one might associate with gnomes? Gnomes in WoW make me want to punch the screen.

Moreso, they probably don't have the engine updates to handle true gnome melee fighting styles (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zIYvBY2DzY)

Boo on half elf.... still... please poll the community before implementing. So many better races.

Nefahrin
01-09-2008, 01:15 PM
Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

Without the implementation of Gnomes, we'll just have to continue hating Halflins :D
I was sooooo looking forward to a good old fashion gnome toss.

Glenalth
01-09-2008, 01:26 PM
Gnomes as monsters would be a good start.

honkuimushi
01-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Didn't stop them from adding Drow.

Heck, the Gnome spells wouldn't even have much use in DDO (Speak with Animals, Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and Prestidigitation).
At least two of the Drow spells could have been useful (Darkness and Faerie Fire), and we didn't get those.

We already have 1 small race (halflings!)

As for racial identity. . .They're frequently the Tinkers. Crack open the Eberron Campaign Setting, you'll find that they're the ones with a Lust for Knowledge, and their homeland Zilargo is one of the big places for making the Airships. They are the diplomats and spies of Eberron. The amount of control the Gnomes have over Khorvaire is downright scary.

But with drow you get a lot more than the racial spell abilities. You get very nice stat bonuses and spell resistance. Some people suggested adding Obscuring Mist instead of Darkness since it's about the same thing in DDO, but drow are also a +2 level adjusted race. Youcould point out all things left out of DDO drow, but aside from SR, I don't hear many complaints. Drow in DDO are basically LA +1 and have a favor unlock to counter that.

But gnomes are a LA+0 race and cutting out those spells really makes them a lot less atractive compared to dwarves, elves, halflings, and warforged who really didn't lose much at all. If I remember correctly, one of the devs said before release that illusion spell in general were causing problems and having a race that had natural illusions in addition to a bonus to illusion spells would require a lot of work to make them worth while. The illusion spell we have that I can think of are Blur, Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Displacement, Phantasmal Killer, and Shadow Walk. That's 6 spells, 3 were added later and 3 of them are 2nd level. There just aren't many illusion spells to choose from and only 2 of those force saving throws where the gnome's bonus would come into play.

In addition they get a + to Constitution and - to Strength. When you add that to their small size, they will have a very low carrying capacity. Small size is not as bad in DDO as it can be in PnP, but the Con bonus doesn't exactly lend itself to any particular character concept. Halflings are small and get a Strength penaly, but their Dex bonus and save bonuses make them very good for Dex fighters. Dragonmarks also gave halflings a big boost. But where do gnomes fit? Except for Sorcerers, Bards, and Paladins the dwarven charisma penalty is an easier tradeoff than strength, and I'm not sure about the Paladin. The overall combat ability of dwarves would probably be a big draw for any Paladins or melee Bards. They get a melee bonus against kobolds and goblins, but they aren't a great melee race and kobolds and goblins are outgrown fairly quickly. I don't see the mark of scribing as being very useful in DDO either. If they had their old intelligence bonus, they would be very popular, especially with the old favored class of illusionist. With some enhancments for gnome wizards, I could see gnome wizards and wizard/ rogues being very popular.

In terms of racial identity, gnomes are always something of a mix between dwarves and elves and get muddled with halflings a lot. If you look at D&D artwork, the artists can't seem to decide on any one look for gnomes. In 2nd Edition, all the core races got their own handbook, except gnomes and halflings were lumped together. Dragonlance was the first setting that really had a solid concept for gnomes. That's where the tinker idea comes from. Other settings borrowd from that, but toned it down a little bit. Spelljammer just said that the gnomes in space come from Krynn. You also have the annoying/ endearing trickster aspect that shows up in characters like Jan Jensen and Grobnar.

If you look at my second paragraph, you'll see I mentioned that they have a strong role in Eberron. Interestingly, they pretty much abandoned the tinker idea here. Instead they're the librarians, scholars, spies and thier society is outwardly calm but that calm is enforced with an iron fist and secret reign of terror. But the changes in 3.5 were rather unkind to gnomes. Eberron is the only setting where the favored class of Bard makes any sense. A lot of the illusionists got left out in the cold. The Illusionist/ Rogues had an especially hard time. This won't be as big an issue in DDO, but favored class often has a large influence on racial enhancements. I would also like to see gnomes added to DDO, but they will take a lot of work for little return. The models and animations will probably take the most time. Halflings are small, but I can't really see them using the same models as halflings for gnomes. But if we really want to make gnomes more fun, we really need more illusions and maybe even specialization.

Asal
01-09-2008, 01:39 PM
Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

NO :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(

bigal4458
01-09-2008, 01:50 PM
Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

Why does this sound familiar..........?

Oh yes, I believe something along these lines was stated last year, but about monks and druids.

Impaqt
01-09-2008, 03:27 PM
Half-orcs and half-elves are the top pair of races for implementation, and we hope to give them to you this year. Gnomes are not on the current short or medium term plans; we do want to eventually give you more races, tho.

WHy are 2 races that require a vast amount of coding first onthe list? Gnomes are cousins of dwarves..... All you'd need to do would be some tweaking to the appearance generator, Mod the Stats, and develope the Enhancments....

Its been said the artwork and anamation takes the most time.... WHy tackle the tough ones first when theres an easy one to add that could really generate a lot of good will and content.

binnsr
01-09-2008, 03:29 PM
WHy are 2 races that require a vast amount of coding first onthe list? Gnomes are cousins of dwarves..... All you'd need to do would be some tweaking to the appearance generator, Mod the Stats, and develope the Enhancments....

Its been said the artwork and anamation takes the most time.... WHy tackle the tough ones first when theres an easy one to add that could really generate a lot of good will and content.

But animations on half-elves is easy .. just tack elf-ears onto the human model :D

Coldin
01-09-2008, 03:34 PM
But animations on half-elves is easy .. just tack elf-ears onto the human model :D

Funny, I always thought of half-elves looking more like Elves, but slightly taller and shorter ears.

GeneralDiomedes
01-09-2008, 03:41 PM
Gnomes would have made nice and probably popular PK Sorcs (only full CHA race with CON bonus!) before Drow came along.

binnsr
01-09-2008, 03:51 PM
Actually, the picture in the PHB does a decent job of mingling the two, but still I think they look more like humans with pointy ears :D

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h311/eldamir/DDO/human-halfelf-elf.jpg



Physical Description: To humans, half-elves look like elves. To elves, they look like humans -- indeed, elves call them half-humans. Half-elf height ranges from under 5 feet to about 6 feet tall, and weight usually ranges between 100 and 180 pounds. Half-elf men are taller and heavier than half-elf women, but the difference is less pronounced than that found among humans. Half-elves are paler, fairer, and smoother-skinned than their human parents, but their actual skin tone, hair color and other details vary just as human features do. Half-elves' eyes are green, just as are those of their elf parents. A half-elf reaches adulthood at age 20 and can live to more than 180 years old.
Most half-elves are the children of human-elf pairings. Some, however, are the children of parents who themselves are partly human and partly elf. Some of these "second gemeraton" half-elves have humanlike eyes, but most still have green eyes.

moorewr
01-09-2008, 03:58 PM
But animations on half-elves is easy .. just tack elf-ears onto the human model :D

Just one ear!

(per Order of the Stick. :) )

MysticTheurge
01-09-2008, 05:45 PM
Gnomes are cousins of dwarves..... All you'd need to do would be some tweaking to the appearance generator

Uh... what are you talking about?

Here's Gimble, example gnome bard from the PHB:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG27_WEB.jpg

Here's the Gnome from the MM:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG131.jpg

Meanwhile, here's Tordek, example dwarf fighter from the PHB:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG37_WEB.jpg

And here's the Dwarf from the MM:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG92.jpg

Are you really trying to tell me those guys could all use the same model? If anything, gnomes are closer to halflings than dwarves. But even they have some pretty significant differences.

Nemonon
01-09-2008, 09:08 PM
i agree with you MT but you have to admit gnomes would be alot easier than half orc's. not to mention they would add more flavor to the game and attract alot more attention from the community in my opinion. how often do you hear some one ask when are we getting half orc's or half elves. I've seen hundreds of people mention gnomes and several threads about them. i can see half elves being the easiest to implement. i think gnomes would have been the second. i wish they could have taken the models from NWN2 and used them in DDO. i'm not a game designer so i don't even know if that is possible it sure would have saved them alot of time though.

Nemonon
01-09-2008, 09:09 PM
oh and by the way gnomes have always looked like halflings with big noses until 3rd edition when i couldn't tell the two apart anymore.

Giantsbane
01-10-2008, 07:39 AM
Gnomes are cousins of dwarves.....

You sir, should be publicaly thrashed with a halfling, to within inches or your life! :mad:

Don't get me wrong, Gnomes are cute little buggers, and have their place in Ebberon. However, they are not related to the superior Dwarven race in anyway whatsoever.

Mad_Bombardier
01-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Are you really trying to tell me those guys could all use the same model? If anything, gnomes are closer to halflings than dwarves. But even they have some pretty significant differences.Ya, gnomes are fat halflings without the pointy heads. :p Don't confuse them with us, the majestic Dwarves.

salmag
01-11-2008, 07:48 PM
Gnomes in Eberron would have looked like halflings except with an elven head and facial hair. They also would have been about half a foot taller, I believe. The are small, so they get the +1 size bonus, and get + con/- str. They could implement them with illusion spell resistance. I remember that when I was a DM, they basically could cast any spell, with the small exception that those spells were in fact illusions. Hence, every character in opposition to the gnome would get a save against illusions or believe that the illusion was real. If the illusion is real, then they would take damage because they believed the damage was real. So as far as spells go, every evocation spell could be treated as an illusion. Gnomes are THE best class, and definately should be implemented before half-orcs.

I appreciate the Dev that answered and I thank you for the answer. Unfortunately, for me the answer you gave just proves that Turbine Devs are not in touch with what your paying customers want. I have yet to see a post (not that they don't exist, which I'm sure they do) that said we, the subscribers, wanted to play drow; or half-orcs; half-elves, yes. Yet, gnomes are constantly asked for. In Eberron lore, they exist, as do Kalashtar, changelings, and shifters. Regardless of 4.0 rules, for Wizards to just lose this core class, tells me that I will continue to play the older versions and I will NOT buy the new books.

DEVS, PLEASE GIVE CONSIDERATION TO IMPLEMENTING GNOMES BEFORE YOUR NEXT ANNIVERSARY. THREE YEARS IS WAY TOO LONG FOR YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS TO WAIT. ESPECIALLY FOR CONTENT RELEVANT TO EBERRON

Thank you.