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Avonwey
12-26-2007, 01:25 PM
I am re-rolling a Drow THF Barbarian that I absolutely loved to play in favor of a Dwarf. I also have a 1Barb/8 Ranger that I like to play, and it highlights the one big weakness of a Barbarian: using wands. I really love being able to send a /tell to the cleric saying "I will wand heal between fights to save your sp" which I couldn't on my barbarian. Sure I could use potions but they are way more expensive.

So my question is, would you think that splashing a level of ranger is worthwhile to get access to wands? Or is there some "optimal" multi-class with a majority of Barbarian that makes sense? Basically I'm looking for a maximum dps Greataxe hooligan buttkicker.

Thanks in advance.

Jomee
12-26-2007, 01:33 PM
Just 1 level of ranger? It takes 2 to get the bow speed/strength and twf. Why not just go with 1 level of cleric.

Impaqt
12-26-2007, 01:35 PM
By Taking another class, you automatically lose the ability to ever have "Mighty Rage" at L20. Your also going to lose a barb feat with every level cap raise.

14: Indomidable Will
16: DR Bump, # of Rage Bump
18: Trap Sense Bump

So as you progress your gonna be a bit behind Pure barbs, but can heal yourself up with wands....

Personally, after gettingmy barb up to l9 as a 8BVarb/1Bard I deleted him. THe Wand useage just wasnt practical for the amount of hit points I had... Plus I found handing the cleric a couple Cure serious Wands was better than me having to do it myself in most cases.

Avonwey
12-26-2007, 01:41 PM
Just 1 level of ranger? It takes 2 to get the bow speed/strength and twf. Why not just go with 1 level of cleric.

I will only ever be using greataxes, so I don't really need twf although bow strength would be useful. I would never consider taking cleric because for starters I'd never invite a 1 Cleric/13 Barbarian into a party. :) I would lose 1 BAB, and I'm the odd combination of power gamer/role player. The level of ranger lets me use wands (30 resists, cure, etc.), and I get a favorite enemy.

ChildrenofBodom
12-26-2007, 01:42 PM
By Taking another class, you automatically lose the ability to ever have "Mighty Rage" at L20. Your also going to lose a barb feat with every level cap raise.

14: Indomidable Will
16: DR Bump, # of Rage Bump
18: Trap Sense Bump

So as you progress your gonna be a bit behind Pure barbs, but can heal yourself up with wands....

Personally, after gettingmy barb up to l9 as a 8BVarb/1Bard I deleted him. THe Wand useage just wasnt practical for the amount of hit points I had... Plus I found handing the cleric a couple Cure serious Wands was better than me having to do it myself in most cases.

Definately agree. Pots may be more expensive, but they are a lot more useful and anyone can use them. If you take 1 level of ranger or cleric, you are missing feats (as stated by Impaqt) and you are able to heal yourself at about 6-10 a wand charge. Not really worth it at ALL. Plus I think you can only wand yourself when your not raged I believe, I have never had a wand I could use on my barb so I'm not absolutely positive, but I'm pretty sure you can't. So, I don't know about you, but my barbarian is raged as much as he can, since that is when they are most powerful.

Mili

Avonwey
12-26-2007, 01:44 PM
By Taking another class, you automatically lose the ability to ever have "Mighty Rage" at L20. Your also going to lose a barb feat with every level cap raise.

14: Indomidable Will
16: DR Bump, # of Rage Bump
18: Trap Sense Bump

So as you progress your gonna be a bit behind Pure barbs, but can heal yourself up with wands....

Personally, after gettingmy barb up to l9 as a 8BVarb/1Bard I deleted him. THe Wand useage just wasnt practical for the amount of hit points I had... Plus I found handing the cleric a couple Cure serious Wands was better than me having to do it myself in most cases.

Thanks, this is the perfect answer for a couple reasons. When I played a Drow Barbarian, I had under 300 hp and a 29 AC. (I was always considered to be a pretty fine Barbarian by my guild mates, who were floored when I told them this) If I'm a Dwarf I'll be nothing if not durable.

Impaqt
12-26-2007, 01:50 PM
I will only ever be using greataxes, so I don't really need twf although bow strength would be useful. I would never consider taking cleric because for starters I'd never invite a 1 Cleric/13 Barbarian into a party. :) I would lose 1 BAB, and I'm the odd combination of power gamer/role player. The level of ranger lets me use wands (30 resists, cure, etc.), and I get a favorite enemy.

If your Wisdom is 11+ Taking Cleric makes as much sense as Ranger...

You'll never Miss that 1 point of BAB. NEVER. THinking so is rediculous.

You gain access to the same Wands and then some.

You gain +2 to your Will save instead of Reflex.

There are some very handy 1st level cleric spells you can take and swap out at will. Divine Favor (Theres your +1 Attack) Nightsheild(MM Immunity) just to name a couple.

Dont be afraid to think outside the box. I NEVER have an issue with anyone with a level splash of Cleric. SHows me they are concerned about self preservation.

I'm still not a fan of Losing 1 level of Barbarian, but if you go that route, cleric isnt a bad choice.

ChildrenofBodom
12-26-2007, 01:51 PM
I will only ever be using greataxes, so I don't really need twf although bow strength would be useful. I would never consider taking cleric because for starters I'd never invite a 1 Cleric/13 Barbarian into a party. :) I would lose 1 BAB, and I'm the odd combination of power gamer/role player. The level of ranger lets me use wands (30 resists, cure, etc.), and I get a favorite enemy.

Uh.....do you mean more then 1 level of ranger then...? As far as I know 1 level of ranger doesn't let you use 30 resist wands or the spell. If you want to use the 30 resist wands you will still have to make a UMD check, and you don't get spells unless you have a wisdom of 11 at level 4 or you get them at 6. The only wand you will be able to use as level 1 ranger is cure light wounds, that's it.

As far as favored enemy goes you only get 1, and since you will only be taking 1 level of ranger (at least I think you are thinking about taking 1) it will only be +2 damage. Which isn't that great.

Mili

Impaqt
12-26-2007, 01:58 PM
Uh.....do you mean more then 1 level of ranger then...? As far as I know 1 level of ranger doesn't let you use 30 resist wands or the spell. If you want to use the 30 resist wands you will still have to make a UMD check, and you don't get spells unless you have a wisdom of 11 at level 4 or you get them at 6. The only wand you will be able to use as level 1 ranger is cure light wounds, that's it.

As far as favored enemy goes you only get 1, and since you will only be taking 1 level of ranger (at least I think you are thinking about taking 1) it will only be +2 damage. Which isn't that great.

Mili

Nope, Wands are Class based First, UMD Second. ANyone with one level of Cleric, Ranger, Wizard, Sorc, or even Paladin can Use L11 Resist wands without a UMD or caster level Check as long as you meet the overall ML for the wands useage. Same for Healing wands. If it CAN appear in your spell book, you can use the wandl.

Scrolls on the other hand have Caster level requirements.

ChildrenofBodom
12-26-2007, 02:01 PM
Nope, Wands are Class based First, UMD Second. ANyone with one level of Cleric, Ranger, Wizard, Sorc, or even Paladin can Use L11 Resist wands without a UMD or caster level Check as long as you meet the overall ML for the wands useage. Same for Healing wands. If it CAN appear in your spell book, you can use the wandl.

Scrolls on the other hand have Caster level requirements.

That's interesting......

I think that is kind of stupid.

Thanks for clearing that up Impaqt.

rpasell
12-26-2007, 02:01 PM
Nope, Wands are Class based First, UMD Second. ANyone with one level of Cleric, Ranger, Wizard, Sorc, or even Paladin can Use L11 Resist wands without a UMD or caster level Check as long as you meet the overall ML for the wands useage. Same for Healing wands. If it CAN appear in your spell book, you can use the wandl.

Scrolls on the other hand have Caster level requirements.

Yes, and correct me if I'm wrong, you'd be relying on Resist wands dropping in chests as they can't be purchased from any vendor.

roggane
12-26-2007, 02:08 PM
Another thought..

My barb is 10barb/2ftr/2rogue (ftr for the spring attack feats) but the 2 lvls of rogue are invaluable.

UMD maxxed you can use wands (some failure).
Gain evasion on 2nd lvl of rogue.
+3 to reflex save
sneak attack bonus and to hit enhancement

Do lose 1 BAB but the rest outweighs losing it.

Jomee
12-26-2007, 03:08 PM
If your Wisdom is 11+ Taking Cleric makes as much sense as Ranger...

You'll never Miss that 1 point of BAB. NEVER. THinking so is rediculous.

You gain access to the same Wands and then some.

You gain +2 to your Will save instead of Reflex.

There are some very handy 1st level cleric spells you can take and swap out at will. Divine Favor (Theres your +1 Attack) Nightsheild(MM Immunity) just to name a couple.

Dont be afraid to think outside the box. I NEVER have an issue with anyone with a level splash of Cleric. SHows me they are concerned about self preservation.

I'm still not a fan of Losing 1 level of Barbarian, but if you go that route, cleric isnt a bad choice.

Yes in fact i have a 12fighter/1cleric/1rogue that never gets commanded, held etc, 30str,20con18wis. Can open locks up to dc56 use raise dead scrolls and is always #1 or #2 in kills (no leroy) .

Impaqt
12-26-2007, 03:11 PM
Yes, and correct me if I'm wrong, you'd be relying on Resist wands dropping in chests as they can't be purchased from any vendor.


Sure, But THeres always a few on the AH for cheap and currently I have at least 4 spread across my characters.. For how often you need a 30 Point resist, they are plentiful.

mgoldb2
12-26-2007, 03:52 PM
16: DR Bump

For DR they dont go by the PnP rules. We acturally get more DR but at different levels. 2,5,8,11,14 and unless they sundenly changing the pattern which I doubt 17 and 20 but not at level 16.

brshelton
12-30-2007, 05:32 PM
the optimal multiclass of barb is pure barb. You lose crit rage 2 at 14 tireless rage at 16 and youll never get that uber rage at 20. Pretty much a multied barb is a gimped barb (there are rare exceptions).

brshelton
12-30-2007, 05:33 PM
If your Wisdom is 11+ Taking Cleric makes as much sense as Ranger...

You'll never Miss that 1 point of BAB. NEVER. THinking so is rediculous.

You gain access to the same Wands and then some.

You gain +2 to your Will save instead of Reflex.

There are some very handy 1st level cleric spells you can take and swap out at will. Divine Favor (Theres your +1 Attack) Nightsheild(MM Immunity) just to name a couple.

Dont be afraid to think outside the box. I NEVER have an issue with anyone with a level splash of Cleric. SHows me they are concerned about self preservation.

I'm still not a fan of Losing 1 level of Barbarian, but if you go that route, cleric isnt a bad choice.

so that 1 BaB wouldn't be missed for say o the 15 BaB req for STWF or the BaB reqs for other feats?

Kreaper
12-30-2007, 05:48 PM
You can take a level of ranger for wands and two levels of fighter for the feats, fighter strength 1 and attack haste. The only real loss would be the last rage and I can live without that. But it is in my best interest to be able to self heal more quickly (Alternating wands and pots.) since I play with a cleric only a small percentage of the time.

brshelton
12-30-2007, 05:59 PM
before doing that I'd read up on what rages Barbs get in PnP at higher levels.

Kargon
12-30-2007, 06:16 PM
If are looking for a self sufficimient mostly Barbarian Kargon went the 2 rogue / rest barbarian route. Evasimion are nice, UMD are invaluamable (if wands are too slow at high levamel... what about Heal scrolls? ;) not to mentimion raise dead), and 1d6 sneak attack are extrama bonus, not to mentimion now almost evermary skill are a class skill (though on Barb levamels will still require 2 skillpoints). Just have to get used to juggling when good to rage, when good to end rage to use wands/scrolls, and when good to not rage in first place. can get pretty complimicated. And yes Mighty Rage at levamel 20 are going to miss out (and everymathing in between one level bump delayed)... but are realamally going to notice 2 str and con and 1 or 2 will save when already have somemathing like a 50 strength raging? kargon not think so.

Strakeln
12-30-2007, 06:44 PM
You'll never Miss that 1 point of BAB. NEVER. THinking so is rediculous.That's not true at all. Here's an example: STWF and STHF will require BaB 15. Rangers and Barbarians get a feat at 15 but not 16. So if you want either feat before level 18, you must do one of the following:

1) Not dip into classes without a BaB increase until level 16
2) Take fighter at level 16 for the free feat, when you have BaB 15.

I'm currently dealing with this on my ranger... first level was rogue, so I'll either have to wait until level 18 (2009? 2010? Never?) or take a level of fighter at 16. Neither is something I want to do.

Kreaper
12-31-2007, 09:40 AM
before doing that I'd read up on what rages Barbs get in PnP at higher levels.

I did. It gives +2 to strength (Don't forget that one of the bonuses to 2 levels of ftr is +1 to strength from ftr strength.), +2 to con and +1 to will saves. I can live with the loss of that for the bonuses to mc with ranger and ftr. Mostly because it is a better fit for the way I typically play. If I had a steady cleric to play with I would probably stay pure. It is a great benefit to me to be able to use wands and still have my bab.

jaasper
12-31-2007, 09:51 AM
If you look at my Barb I took 1 lvl of fighter for armor prof. and 1 lvl or ranger for bow str and wand ability. After 1.9 years of playing the game the lvl of ranger has payed off millions of times when those abilities are needed.
I would not change him for anything. I would suggest going a similar route.