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View Full Version : Question About Abbot FOR the Developers.



Dimz
12-26-2007, 05:46 AM
Okay, many of us have been wondering a few things:

1) How many puzzles have to be beat to be able to make the Abbot enabled to be killed?
We now know from our experience it is ATLEAST 1 puzzle. The player base just wants a clear answer.

2)Obviously, the raid is too hard for the common 12 man pug. I was wondering if at anytime, there will be a nerf for the Abbot. The titan needed one awhile ago and I believe for the average pug this one will need it too.
Abbot's Horrid Wilting is doing 110+ damage on saves, 200+ damage on failed saves. I think this is a bit much for normal damage. His other spells are easy to manuever away from. The quell and wheeps respawn with full health when they are controlled and fleshed to stone, this makes no sense to me.

3)Many problems with the puzzles.
Ice puzzle is very easy and is not a concern for me or many players I have been playing with. Asteroids Puzzle, the rocks are still coming at us too fast, maybe an optional screen too to show how much more asteroids we need to hit (as well as one for the other 2 puzzles, Optional check marks for the win!),lastly about Asteroid Puzzle, it sometimes seems that asteroids are coming from below. Now on to Goggles Puzzle, how can you developers imagine a group of 12 adventurers defeating this without INSANE hours of practice to memorize it. Nope not just one way down, TWO!

4)Him casting spells and special skills on players while inferno and them lasting.
Need to have a big change here. Still seeing acid fog and hold person while in tavern after a quest. Also him casting encasement while we are on an ice island during an inferno seems a bit evil for you to allow him to do that. Where else is the party going to go during the inferno!


So until Asteroids puzzle is simplified I would understand that needing one puzzle to be beat would be still be hard for MOST 12 man pugs. But, understandable to make this quest not too easy. Or maybe, 1 Puzzle on normal, 2 Puzzles on hard, 3 Puzzles on Elite. I believe that sounds fair enough. As for his HP I think he is at a fair amount of hit points and many would agree that there is no need to change that. Obviously, now Ice would be mandatory because I can not seeing anyone muscle through the Inferno. Sure its possible, BUT very hard only the best of groups COULD EVER possibly do it.

Okay thanks and please answer ASAP!
Val

Impaqt
12-26-2007, 01:14 PM
eaten by cube

Not to mention that I doubt the devsw are going topost a Walkthrough for us....

If the abbot is that important to you, just keep racking up EXP Debt and Negative levels come Mod6.

Eventually, the ABbot raid will be run as often as Desert Caravan, the Rat Maze, and the Tomb of Perpetual Swimming. ANd then the devs can feel they beat us!

Dimz
12-26-2007, 01:34 PM
You bumped your own post after 4 hours because the devs who are probably on holidays didn't answer yet? Are you kidding me? You're just asking for forum points...

Why hate because I want some info. I saw the post start to get knocked down so I bumped it. Alot of people want answers. I did not want a walkthrough, I just simply wanted to know what should be in the storyline of the raid. I am simply asking if the raid is working as intended because right now many aspects are broken. I have attained 200,000+ xp debt from this raid in less then 4 days. So I think I have a good understanding of many of the problems with this raid.

sigtrent
12-26-2007, 03:58 PM
[eaten by cube] I just simply wanted to know what should be in the storyline of the raid. I am simply asking if the raid is working as intended because right now many aspects are broken. I have attained 200,000+ xp debt from this raid in less then 4 days. So I think I have a good understanding of many of the problems with this raid.

For starters, it isn't a dev's job to go answering game play questions. Generaly the idea is that players figure those things out for themselves.

Second.. so your main question is... is the game supposed to work the way it is working? Ya.. chances are they made it roughly the way they intended to make it. If you were making a game, would you make it the way you wanted it to be?

Finaly, It is against the forumn rules to bump posts. Your own posts, other peoples posts. Bumping is agaisnt the rules.

Dimz
12-26-2007, 11:38 PM
Well just wanted some answer I have spent a total amount of about 24 hours in there in about a weeks time. Thats alot of time to be in there and not getting my own questions answered with experience. I am just trying to get some answers. Because obiously some parts of this raid are broken and my not be working as intended.

Juggle
12-27-2007, 02:33 AM
I agree with the changes you're talking about. But for now, I recall this being a lot like the Titan release. When that first came out, it was almost unbeatable. The level cap was only 10 when they released it and was extremely overpowered, especially for a bunch of level 10's. I consider these types of raids just something to look forward to beating, giving other players motivation towards beating it and whatnot. I imagine it being nerfed soon, and will become easier for level 16's hopefully. But as the one guy said, eventually, it will become run as much as Desert and all those others...

ssg2wo
12-27-2007, 05:43 AM
so it's ok to release content that is currently unbeatable? in anticipation of a level cap increase?

wouldn't it be better to support your paying customers by providing content that is playable now?

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-27-2007, 07:13 AM
But as the one guy said, eventually, it will become run as much as Desert and all those others... Ahh holy he is saying that those quest are left in the dust as they are annoying as hell to do and pretty much one timers even if they are easy. But the main point of the Abbot is that on norm it will give a full lvl16 party a reasonable challenge so for 14's it might as well be elite as that is pretty much what it is being two lvls higher. Thou it shouldn't be this way obivously they are trying to weasel in more lvl 16 content for the release. Some of the mechanics in there are broken. The trick is farm the firestone greeves, and the blue fire necklace to survive inferno on the platform and hope that at lvl 16 it is beatable.

bobbysmooth
12-27-2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks for all your effort in trying to beat the Abbot. Somebody has to do it and I am glad that one of the best players in the game is the one trying to figure it out. Those of you who are spouting your hate need to give some respect or step up and do your own work on trying to figure this beast out. DEV'S give us some answers. This raid has been out since what October, fixed at least twice and is still unbeatable. I know if I purchased any item 3 monthes ago, had to take it in to be fixed twice, and it still didn't work! I would not be very happy with your product. Thats how the players feel about the Abbot raid.

Dimz
12-27-2007, 01:39 PM
Thanks for all the replies. But, yeh Devs. I have worked hours on hours on this raid with little learned past wat I already figured out. Just please give us some input on the questions/statements i made in the OP.

Dimz
12-27-2007, 01:46 PM
Ahh holy he is saying that those quest are left in the dust as they are annoying as hell to do and pretty much one timers even if they are easy. But the main point of the Abbot is that on norm it will give a full lvl16 party a reasonable challenge so for 14's it might as well be elite as that is pretty much what it is being two lvls higher. Thou it shouldn't be this way obivously they are trying to weasel in more lvl 16 content for the release. Some of the mechanics in there are broken. The trick is farm the firestone greeves, and the blue fire necklace to survive inferno on the platform and hope that at lvl 16 it is beatable.

Your last statement is wrong. We lived through an inferno the recent patch. The inferno does about 250 damage a tick with no resists etc. We beat him down 5 times. No win. You have to beat puzzles not just survive through an inferno.

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-28-2007, 01:45 AM
Your last statement is wrong. We lived through an inferno the recent patch. The inferno does about 250 damage a tick with no resists etc. We beat him down 5 times. No win. You have to beat puzzles not just survive through an inferno.
Wasn't saying you need to just live thru it we have had a pali with all those on taking only 20-30/50(crit) who then raised the clerics up in between, while doing all the puzzles are needed to complete the quest you don't need the ice flow puzzle done to get him to stop on the inferno. You just bring people up in between infernos and beat him down till he pops back to his staue again and you get another shot the puzzles. In case you don't know the fire shield, greater fire resist and the absorbtion of 33% make it survivable, hence you get a party decked out with that surviving an inferno is not impossible on the platform with mass heals.

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-28-2007, 01:51 AM
Thanks for all your effort in trying to beat the Abbot. Somebody has to do it and I am glad that one of the best players in the game is the one trying to figure it out. Those of you who are spouting your hate need to give some respect or step up and do your own work on trying to figure this beast out. DEV'S give us some answers. This raid has been out since what October, fixed at least twice and is still unbeatable. I know if I purchased any item 3 monthes ago, had to take it in to be fixed twice, and it still didn't work! I would not be very happy with your product. Thats how the players feel about the Abbot raid.
[eaten by cube] the raid has some broken elements but tuff luck thats life, its not unbeatable it just requires more specific tactics than any other raid whoopydoo so it cant be done straight away practice like everyone else does. Opps everyone else does just in guild hmmmm. And if players are hating the raid don't run it. [eaten by cube]

maddmatt70
12-28-2007, 01:52 AM
You dont even need those resists if you got the hp and the healing power... Not many characters have that high of an hp however that are not tanks anyway..

Dimz
12-28-2007, 02:07 AM
[eaten by cube] the raid has some broken elements but tuff luck thats life, its not unbeatable it just requires more specific tactics than any other raid whoopydoo so it cant be done straight away practice like everyone else does. Opps everyone else does just in guild hmmmm. And if players are hating the raid don't run it. [eaten by cube]

Come back to this post once u beat asteroid puzzles,ice puzzle, and goggles puzzle in one run. :):) Oh and once you beat the raid. Good luck with all of those objectives. :D

Dimz
12-28-2007, 02:10 AM
Basically all I am trying to say is: Why would they release a raid that they don't even know is beatable. Its just a poor excuse for them to continue releasing content (poor at that). It is aggrevating to the player base (which most don't even do this raid, the elite players can't even beat it) to have to see this content that is currently unbeated. I have thrown in many hours. Sorry if I am "complaining" but hell, someone had to do it!

Val

Lifespawn
12-28-2007, 09:22 AM
i've beaten the ice and asteroud puzzles alrdy almost gotten 1 person across ythe tiles and i've only done the raid 7 times don't worry we'll get it please don't change the raid devs.

reziel_deadshot
12-28-2007, 10:03 AM
i've beaten the ice and asteroud puzzles alrdy almost gotten 1 person across ythe tiles and i've only done the raid 7 times don't worry we'll get it please don't change the raid devs.

i grr and praise at you because--

grr : because i want to say i killed abbot prenerf as a few of my friends on my server can do (guild is bones combat brigade), but also because im jealous that you actually have what 8 or more people that could give a **** about dieing, i have 1 other person/friend that will do this with me and personally...2 wizards is not enough :p i mean we try to screw around and such we have gotten to ice puzzle with just us 2 (without mana) and died shortly after beating it and cant get really much farther. i mean it will be beaten eventually, err atleats i hope because if someone does not beat it before mod6 i doubt there are going to be as many attempts i mean, neg lvls and item damage out the whazoo..so i want to switch my dumb wizard over there and run the dumb raid with u...i want to beat it dangit!

praise : because u will more then likely beat it (with me ? :D) and post how to do and then we almost all hopefully will be able to beat it.

*side note* i know the neg level is bad i could careless really, just sit in a tavern for a lil bit, but the item damage is insane ...i know you can bind items to stop this but honestly its what 10 of 3 or 4 different types of material? i mean think, you got 2 rings, bracers, gloves, armor, cloak, trinket, helm, belt, necklace, and shield thats what 9 or 10 things, thats bout 100 of each type of material right there, thats not counting all the weapons your going to want to bind..and other items that you switch in and out.

Lifespawn
12-28-2007, 12:27 PM
in the latest notes tho item damage from deaths has no chance of permanent damage it just means if u die alot in a quest you might not be able to use the item till you repair it.

Dariuss
12-28-2007, 12:32 PM
All these posts about hwo the abbott is 'unbeatable' or 'broken' really just remind me of the hoopla when the titan wqas released. And the titan was eventually beaten pre-nerf.

Dimz
12-28-2007, 05:08 PM
All these posts about hwo the abbott is 'unbeatable' or 'broken' really just remind me of the hoopla when the titan wqas released. And the titan was eventually beaten pre-nerf.

It was beat using a "exploit". It wasn't beat legit. Which brings us to how Abbot was beat before. Some of the methods were brute force which everyone loves. But I think atleast one of the puzzles should be done. Atleast Ice because the inferno does crazy damage. Not saying you can not live through it but it would take an amazing amount of healing and alot of HP,resists,prot, maybe even cold shield, even fire greaves. Even with Ice being needed you wouldnt go in there and win every time. Due to the fact that you might mess up some where.

Val

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-29-2007, 12:22 AM
Come back to this post once u beat asteroid puzzles,ice puzzle, and goggles puzzle in one run. :):) Oh and once you beat the raid. Good luck with all of those objectives. :D
Well Dimz all i can say is i have gotten all 3 puzzles done and a couple of times 2 out of 3 done in the same raid. They aren't that hard all you gotta do is run them with people who know how to do em. B4 the whinging about getting people who know the puzzle run with your guild and mates thats how i did it as you need all 3 puzzles done for completion.

RELEASE NOTES *The three trials contained within the Black Abbot raid no longer need to all be completed in a single teleport pass and the Black Abbot will now send you back to the three trials if you have not yet beaten them, rather than simply continuing the battle immortal. *

Dimz
12-29-2007, 02:02 AM
Well Dimz all i can say is i have gotten all 3 puzzles done and a couple of times 2 out of 3 done in the same raid. They aren't that hard all you gotta do is run them with people who know how to do em. B4 the whinging about getting people who know the puzzle run with your guild and mates thats how i did it as you need all 3 puzzles done for completion.

RELEASE NOTES *The three trials contained within the Black Abbot raid no longer need to all be completed in a single teleport pass and the Black Abbot will now send you back to the three trials if you have not yet beaten them, rather than simply continuing the battle immortal. *


So lets cut out the middle man and lower man. Only the Elite can beat this raid. No way can you beat this with 12 random people ever. Maybe that was their purpose to shut out casual gamers etc. I am pretty hardcore gamer with DDO and still no luck. Please fraps you beating asteroids and goggles, I wanna see! :D

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-29-2007, 05:20 AM
Practice makes perfect. Not elitism.

GlassCannon
12-29-2007, 06:48 AM
Gear makes elitism. Practice makes perfect. PuGs lack both.

Raids like this are painfully evident to be geared for static groups(And therefore a bad idea).

Hvymetal
12-29-2007, 06:51 AM
Gear makes elitism. Practice makes perfect. PuGs lack both.

Raids like this are painfully evident to be geared for static groups(And therefore a bad idea).Actually I'd say attitude makes elitism, gear only exasberates(sp?) it. I have run with people with top line gear that are not elitist....

The thing about PUGs is you never know who your running with. Been in some PUGs where everyone has top line gear, other PUGs where, well not so much...

Shade
12-29-2007, 09:15 AM
Well like I said in your last thread.. Your first question is already answered by a dev in the release notes forum.. And was answered in this forum a couple times back, tho just look at the top thread in the release notes im not gona dig the other one up.

I don't find this much like Titan at all. Titan was very difficult, but not nearly as hard as this one. Given instant access to it with no preraid like we have with abbot and lots of people would of beat it pre nerf. But before they knew anyone did - they changed it to make it a TON easier so most anyone could do it.. And even later made it easier yet again.

Oposite happened with the abbot.. Initially it was beated by many guilds in a legit manner - brute force. It was still pretty challenging and fun for those who did it. However most only dwell on the many people who didn't do this - and exploited to beat it which really isn't fair to anyone.

Regardless, it was changed from a hard straight up fight raid, to a insane puzzle-required raid, with an even harder straight up fight. A very extreme change..

Then mod5 change to make it easier - was nothing like titans.. Titans was an extreme change that made every aspect of the raid far easier.. Abbots change makes 1 of 3 puzzles doable, hardly like the titans at all.

Lifespawn
12-29-2007, 02:14 PM
Well like I said in your last thread.. Your first question is already answered by a dev in the release notes forum.. And was answered in this forum a couple times back, tho just look at the top thread in the release notes im not gona dig the other one up.

I don't find this much like Titan at all. Titan was very difficult, but not nearly as hard as this one. Given instant access to it with no preraid like we have with abbot and lots of people would of beat it pre nerf. But before they knew anyone did - they changed it to make it a TON easier so most anyone could do it.. And even later made it easier yet again.

Oposite happened with the abbot.. Initially it was beated by many guilds in a legit manner - brute force. It was still pretty challenging and fun for those who did it. However most only dwell on the many people who didn't do this - and exploited to beat it which really isn't fair to anyone.

Regardless, it was changed from a hard straight up fight raid, to a insane puzzle-required raid, with an even harder straight up fight. A very extreme change..

Then mod5 change to make it easier - was nothing like titans.. Titans was an extreme change that made every aspect of the raid far easier.. Abbots change makes 1 of 3 puzzles doable, hardly like the titans at all.


i stated that i have beaten 2 of the 3 puzzles some1 else stated beating all 3 at different times so it's more than just 1 of 3 doable.
Yes this is hard but cmon people everything else in th damn game is too easy and frankly this is the only thing keeping me interested in the game atm since we've been at the lvlcap for EVER.!!

Yen_Lo_Wang
12-29-2007, 02:43 PM
It may be hard but thats what people wanted more of a challenge hell titan you can three man elite, reaver you dont need too many more to complete elite, dragon was made harder but people can still do elite what happens when people complete it real easy and say damn theres nothing to do.

Drekisen
12-29-2007, 09:25 PM
Shouldn't we be a little grateful that we are even getting a difficulty setting normal level 15 quest to play with. I know most people who do this raid are probably capped, and consider themselves 15th level......but....YOUR NOT! Things, even though thay may seem small and not important, can add up. 12 actual 15th level players with all the little extras that they get has got to be much stronger than 12 almost 15th level characters. Just one small example, uhm.....12 extra feats plus however many wizards u have with you, add that number of extra metamnmagics. That has got to count for something. My advice, keep running the Reaver raid until you have +3 to your all of your important abilities from tomes and maybe even wait until you are level 15 to try it. I doubt very much the raid is unbeatable, in fact why would they bother to do that...unless it's preemptive DOOOOOOOMMMMMMM. Maybe the raid was not meant to be beaten by a "14th still not 15th level no matter how long they have been capped" player. And the people who have beat it, are probably just THAT good, or have put considerable time and resources in it. It's HARD, it's meant to be HARD, it's one level above what any of us can even achieve at this point...what were u expecting?

Dimz
12-29-2007, 10:54 PM
Shouldn't we be a little grateful that we are even getting a difficulty setting normal level 15 quest to play with. I know most people who do this raid are probably capped, and consider themselves 15th level......but....YOUR NOT! Things, even though thay may seem small and not important, can add up. 12 actual 15th level players with all the little extras that they get has got to be much stronger than 12 almost 15th level characters. Just one small example, uhm.....12 extra feats plus however many wizards u have with you, add that number of extra metamnmagics. That has got to count for something. My advice, keep running the Reaver raid until you have +3 to your all of your important abilities from tomes and maybe even wait until you are level 15 to try it. I doubt very much the raid is unbeatable, in fact why would they bother to do that...unless it's preemptive DOOOOOOOMMMMMMM. Maybe the raid was not meant to be beaten by a "14th still not 15th level no matter how long they have been capped" player. And the people who have beat it, are probably just THAT good, or have put considerable time and resources in it. It's HARD, it's meant to be HARD, it's one level above what any of us can even achieve at this point...what were u expecting?

Bah, you do not understand. I am not having trouble killing or taking down the abbot. Its the puzzles. Leveling up wont affect how hard the puzzles are. The puzzles are messed and bugged and take insane twitch skills.

Shade
12-30-2007, 02:37 PM
i stated that i have beaten 2 of the 3 puzzles some1 else stated beating all 3 at different times so it's more than just 1 of 3 doable.
Yes this is hard but cmon people everything else in th damn game is too easy and frankly this is the only thing keeping me interested in the game atm since we've been at the lvlcap for EVER.!!

Yea maybe someone fluked into beating the asteroids puzzle here and there.. But it's a 1 in a million luck based thing that is just plain stupid.

The phase puzzle is plain impossible. No one has beaten it. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying. Screenshot or it didn't happen.

There's a big differnce between hard and impossible.

maddmatt70
12-30-2007, 11:40 PM
So has anybody here beaten or been in a group that has beaten the asteroids or the phase tile puzzles and if so how many different times have you been in a group or personnaly beaten the asteroids or phase tile puzzles? For instance I have been in 0 groups that have beaten the asteroids puzzle and in 0 groups that has beaten the phase tile puzzle... If somebody here can honestly say something like I have been in 5 groups that have beaten the asteroid puzzle and 7 groups that have beaten the phase tile puzzle then my hats off to you otherwise I agree with Shade and think the lot of you are full of it......

Drekisen
01-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Bah, you do not understand. I am not having trouble killing or taking down the abbot. Its the puzzles. Leveling up wont affect how hard the puzzles are. The puzzles are messed and bugged and take insane twitch skills.

HANG THE DEVS!!!!! lol j/k

or may I suggest a +10 INT and WIS tome?

Dimz
01-02-2008, 04:03 AM
I am just not getting the point of this content. No one is doing it. People who are doing it are not beating it. Throw us a bone devs. Put it back to where we could kill him with no puzzles. We still need ice now with its insane inferno damage, that or just amazing clerics and buffs. You have proved your point that we cannot short man this raid.

Lifespawn
01-02-2008, 10:47 AM
i have been in 25 groups of which 12 have beaten the asteroids 25 groips of which 0 have beaten the tile room completely but 1 got within 4 tiles of across and 25 groups of which 20 have completed the ice puzzle.Yes it's hard and there is some luck involved but thats what i like about it Nothing else in the game holds my interest i've been playing since beta capped and recapped atleast 20 chars there is nothing else new or random except this and loot whoring and frankly loot whoring isn't good for me because i swear i have a -loot bug i've pulled 1 vorpal since beta That was race restricted to boot and i always pull **** while other people have 10-15 vorpals.This raid is really the only reason i log in anymore-350k xp is nothing atleast i an use the orchard to get that back in a few hours since i was capped before i touched any of them.

stockwizard5
01-02-2008, 11:18 AM
The Titan was BUGGED! The response at the time was "sorry, start over".

This is nothing like that - this is not about help requests half way through the Abbot in the hope of continuing the encounter.

If the quest is working as intended (and indications are that it is) - the first question is ... is it FAIR? Does it test the players, their builds, their equipment, their strategy, their teamwork, and their creativity?

I think that most players are answering no to this - many (most/all) see this more of a test of the internet, performance, and mechanics - with few if any options for creative solutions.

The second question is ... is it FUN? I think generally speaking that the Abbot battles and the puzzles ARE FUN - the issue I see here is that the fun factor starts to seriously decline when it always ends in defeat.

So - basically - I think many are simply asking for options for creative solutions to make it both FAIR and FUN.

juniorpfactors
01-02-2008, 11:19 AM
Wasn't saying you need to just live thru it we have had a pali with all those on taking only 20-30/50(crit) who then raised the clerics up in between, while doing all the puzzles are needed to complete the quest you don't need the ice flow puzzle done to get him to stop on the inferno. You just bring people up in between infernos and beat him down till he pops back to his staue again and you get another shot the puzzles. In case you don't know the fire shield, greater fire resist and the absorbtion of 33% make it survivable, hence you get a party decked out with that surviving an inferno is not impossible on the platform with mass heals.

this is an unplayable raid and sinkhole..to those that continue..have fun with it..ya someone will beat it but...its like beating your head against a brick wall at somepoint you just gotta move on to something else...the entire mod was a flop..yes their are some nice spots...but the raid being unplayable for 90+days is embarrasing...have fun playing "helen keller" while you off doing that... I will try out some other top orchard quests like the rat maze
the above strategey....none of this will work after mod 6....every death you will have 5 negative levels .....those characters will be almost useless and will probably die before they can do any damage to the abbott....and their gear will be totally useless after 3 or 4 deaths....the sad part is i just pulled the firestorm greaves and i still am not gonna go bang my head against this wall..." to the goodblades "

and reality is when the entire server basically isnt even trying it....it is a failure of design...make some puzzle changes and then maybe we have something the server will care about

Dimz
01-02-2008, 11:24 AM
Agree with a couple of the last posters. This raid just needs to be changed how it was before 0 puzzles to kill him. There is no more ranging because now he throws you in the water with telekensis. So why do we have to play asteroids, fall and die, and leap frog to beat some undead guy. Its just so ridiculous. I can udnerstand the ice puzzle others are a waste of time to even attempt atm. So turbine I and the rest of your player base propose either remove this stupid raid or fix it to how it should be.

Milolyen
01-02-2008, 12:02 PM
Agree with a couple of the last posters. This raid just needs to be changed how it was before 0 puzzles to kill him. There is no more ranging because now he throws you in the water with telekensis. So why do we have to play asteroids, fall and die, and leap frog to beat some undead guy. Its just so ridiculous. I can udnerstand the ice puzzle others are a waste of time to even attempt atm. So turbine I and the rest of your player base propose either remove this stupid raid or fix it to how it should be.

Hmmm did not know I propose they fix or remove this raid. Actually this raid is one of the main reasons I am not takeing a break from game right now.

(not directed at anyone in particular here)

Did not get a chance to run it as much as I would have liked to over the holidays but still ran it to get to the puzzles a dozen + times. Unfortunately did not get ported to the puzzles very much and not the chasm at all (I really like trying that one). But me and those that went in had a lot of fun and a lot of laughs. Best is hearing people make it across the iceflow puzzle for the first time or getting close to makeing it for the first time and get all excited or almost make it across the chasm after thinking it is impossible. It is odd how much fun you can have in this game if you get over the whole .... it is not fun or is a waiste of time unless we kill it and get end reward attitude a lot of people have in this game. I know a lot of people play the game for various reasons. Some want the best gear, best stats, and best char possible, others want the comradiery(sp?). Me? I enjoy a good challenge and a combination of the other 2 but it is tough for me to find a challenge cause I tend to memorize quests way to easily(memmed pit and crucible both in 3 runs and the quickest/easiest way through inferno of the damned in 6).

Milolyen

gravestone
01-08-2008, 09:04 PM
I'll throw my two cents in here , personally I dont like the abbott raid because someone else messing up a puzzle that im not there for will ruin the event.
I have tried the abbott all of three times and quit playing alltogether after that I feel that mod 5 really stinks up ddo , I mean everythign was buggy , the puzzles really were awful the last bit of interesting content the developers released was gianthold in its entirety.
Ive run the quests from necropolass , the new tombs were useless time sinks , as were the old ones , the final crypt was a shinign gem in a pile of doo doo the ghosts of perdition was repetitive and the abbott preraid and raid were complete bombs.
none of my friends are even doing the abbott raid , and i dont see any pugs so theres no reason for me to log in
to be honest with you ive been having a blast playing dungeon lords and may even sign up for age of conan beta .. Congrats to you who like wasting your time with those broken puzzles , I imagine it must be somewhat like breaking your noggin on a rubiks cube!
If I want puzzle games ill friggen buy one

Issip
01-09-2008, 10:07 AM
Ahh holy he is saying that those quest are left in the dust as they are annoying as hell to do and pretty much one timers even if they are easy. But the main point of the Abbot is that on norm it will give a full lvl16 party a reasonable challenge so for 14's it might as well be elite as that is pretty much what it is being two lvls higher. Thou it shouldn't be this way obivously they are trying to weasel in more lvl 16 content for the release. Some of the mechanics in there are broken. The trick is farm the firestone greeves, and the blue fire necklace to survive inferno on the platform and hope that at lvl 16 it is beatable.

Have you ever been in there? The Abbott is a complete chump - it would be just the same with level 12's or maybe even level 10's - the problem is the puzzles. Level 16, 18, 20 - who cares - the puzzles don't scale with player level, the puzzles have to be done, and 2/3 puzzles are close to impossible. I couldn't be more disappointed by the raid as fighting a chump while praying that the 6 people randomly teleported to nonsensicle puzzle rooms miraculously all beat their puzzles will never be fun no matter what changes they make.

I spent a few days in there, and this raid is dead content to me.

Fallout
01-09-2008, 10:55 AM
Yes a few of you may got some puzzles done. What about 95% of the other population? This raid is PUG unfriendly as can be, as it almost assures failure.

The so called 'puzzles' are nothing but who has the best twitch skillz. The floor puzzle, if you don't have voice chat, you can't do it.

After mod 6, I like to see how many people enjoy waiting for debuffs to wear off while racking up repair bills just for bounded items. For unbound items, risk perm damage.

If the devs don't change the abbot after mod 6, only the elite few will attempt it. Its just not worth the effort.

maddmatt70
01-09-2008, 11:51 AM
Yes a few of you may got some puzzles done. What about 95% of the other population? This raid is PUG unfriendly as can be, as it almost assures failure.

The so called 'puzzles' are nothing but who has the best twitch skillz. The floor puzzle, if you don't have voice chat, you can't do it.

After mod 6, I like to see how many people enjoy waiting for debuffs to wear off while racking up repair bills just for bounded items. For unbound items, risk perm damage.

If the devs don't change the abbot after mod 6, only the elite few will attempt it. Its just not worth the effort.

How do you know any of this? The asteroid puzzle yes will require fast twitch skills, but most people never really gave it a serious effort and I guess some groups that did are beating it a high % of the time. The floor puzzle has been and should be mapped (limited # of maps) - the best route found and with the right timing done and then it will be doable on a somewhat consistant basis. The permanent damage thing with items has been reworked somewhat by Turbine and if this is still an issue they will undoubtably rework it again. Basically alot of people barely gave this a shot in their guilds - they just gave up without even trying. I do agree that this raid is not pug friendly but it is not un guild friendly. I don't know whether people are just lazy or not willing to put the work in or what....

Fallout
01-09-2008, 12:33 PM
How do you know any of this? The asteroid puzzle yes will require fast twitch skills, but most people never really gave it a serious effort and I guess some groups that did are beating it a high % of the time. The floor puzzle has been and should be mapped (limited # of maps) - the best route found and with the right timing done and then it will be doable on a somewhat consistant basis. The permanent damage thing with items has been reworked somewhat by Turbine and if this is still an issue they will undoubtably rework it again. Basically alot of people barely gave this a shot in their guilds - they just gave up without even trying. I do agree that this raid is not pug friendly but it is not un guild friendly. I don't know whether people are just lazy or not willing to put the work in or what....

>How do you know any of this?

I don't know, maybe because I tried it?

>The asteroid puzzle yes will require fast twitch skills
>The floor puzzle has been and should be mapped (limited # of maps) - the best route found and with the right timing done

Yes, thats why I said it requires twitch skills. Not everyone is gifted with twitch skills. I'm pretty good with twitch skills, but I hate jumping puzzles unless playing side scroller. From the DDO camera angle its tough to see.

>Basically alot of people barely gave this a shot in their guilds

Because the difficulty is not worth the time and effort.

>I don't know whether people are just lazy or not willing to put the work in or what

Or maybe the abbot is so hard for the twitch skills that people don't bother. But say even if they beat it on normal. Spend many hours, days, weeks at it. For a small chance of loot drop. And if you're lucky get something you can use. What do you get, bragging rights? While that same amount of time, you can do all the raids outside of abbot in the game.

Its just not time efficient.

Baron
01-09-2008, 01:00 PM
If you have attempted the tile puzzle lets have your input, if you have not done the abbot quit wasting electrons.....

I have lost so much xp on the abbot it is not even funny anymore.

I am a network geek by trade.

I know latency.

NO pair of players will ever get all the way to one side of the tiles and then get all the way back, which you have to do to complete, not on an internet connection. One person one way, then the other back.

It has nothing to do with character level, skills, feats, or equipment. For that matter twitch skills will not alone get it done either.

It is a latency issue. Whoever tested this at Turbine did it on a network and did not ever do it thru an internet connection. To be honest I am not sure someone with a T1 connection from the same provider that Turbine uses could do it and even then if he could he would only be halfway and then it would be the other persons turn and they would be on a normal DSL or cable internet connection.....

Turbine is gonna change this one before anyone not on the Turbine internal network completes it.

Its all about latency.

maddmatt70
01-09-2008, 01:14 PM
>How do you know any of this?

I don't know, maybe because I tried it?

>The asteroid puzzle yes will require fast twitch skills
>The floor puzzle has been and should be mapped (limited # of maps) - the best route found and with the right timing done

Yes, thats why I said it requires twitch skills. Not everyone is gifted with twitch skills. I'm pretty good with twitch skills, but I hate jumping puzzles unless playing side scroller. From the DDO camera angle its tough to see.

>Basically alot of people barely gave this a shot in their guilds

Because the difficulty is not worth the time and effort.

>I don't know whether people are just lazy or not willing to put the work in or what

Or maybe the abbot is so hard for the twitch skills that people don't bother. But say even if they beat it on normal. Spend many hours, days, weeks at it. For a small chance of loot drop. And if you're lucky get something you can use. What do you get, bragging rights? While that same amount of time, you can do all the raids outside of abbot in the game.

Its just not time efficient.

- time efficient? Fallout are you kidding me. You have what like 6 or 7 chars that you have capped and if your like me you probably have nearly all the raid loot you need and equipment in general for those chars. The developers have stated that they upgraded the raid loot in the abbot raid. No one knows to what extent, but I imagine they have improved it a whole lot. That is raid loot that your chars don't have. Regardless of the loot - I like challenges and nothing in this game challenges me or a whole lot of people playing this game as we have all seen it and done it many times before...

The latency on the tiles are an issue. I am not sure what you are referring to, but I don't believe communication is the answer to the phase puzzle other then the initial "go" rather I think timing and mapping are - I think the phase puzzle will eventually end up being a more difficult reaver ceiling puzzle... I never said the phase puzzle will be completed 100% of the time but a fairly high % could be possible...

Fallout
01-09-2008, 01:37 PM
- time efficient? Fallout are you kidding me. ..

As far as raid loot, there's raid loot you can use, and raid loot that is ****. Sure my chars has raid loot spread out among them, but most of them are ****. 20th run? Don't have anything you can use? SOL. Good luck on next 20 runs. So back to grinding raid runs. Multiply that by number of chars you need them on. And that gets boring.

Abbot is simply low on the list for most people. Its great you love the challenge. Kudos if you beat it. But its not something the vast majority of the population will do.

Milolyen
01-09-2008, 01:48 PM
My guild leader and buddy actually got across the chasm. Granted it was due to sheer dumb luck but he did. He was the person attempting to talk the other across but they had dropped off about half way across. So he ran out just to play around and actually made it all the way across. He frapsed it and everything. It had me cracken up.

Milolyen

maddmatt70
01-09-2008, 02:29 PM
As far as raid loot, there's raid loot you can use, and raid loot that is ****. Sure my chars has raid loot spread out among them, but most of them are ****. 20th run? Don't have anything you can use? SOL. Good luck on next 20 runs. So back to grinding raid runs. Multiply that by number of chars you need them on. And that gets boring.

Abbot is simply low on the list for most people. Its great you love the challenge. Kudos if you beat it. But its not something the vast majority of the population will do.

I am not talking about just beating it I am talking about beating it on a regular basis like say 50% of the time. That is the goal... With a tightly knit group that runs it regularly and works to complete all the aspects of the raid well I would like to see if they get there and I for one think it can and will be done.. As far as raid loot is concerned it is not nearly so hard to get as you make tell - the reaver which is similiar to this raid in regards to length of quest it seems people have everything in there. For instance I ran a reaver last night with the TFC and the head of good fortune and two boots dropped - these are arguably the best loot in the reaver. Nobody wanted the head and for the boots somebody wanted one pair to replace a pair that was getting worn and one other person took a pair of boots. In the other run we had the cloak dropped and nobody wanted it from what I can recall. Everybody still wants tomes well if you can regularly do the abbot raid you double your chance at getting a +3 tome... That longsword which was o.k./decent that was in the abbot raid (banishing +5 holy pure good) might be better what if it is now 18-20 crit +5 banishing longsword with holy and pure good - like your paladin wouldn't mind that weapon in the next mod with a bunch of devils..

Hendrik
01-09-2008, 02:30 PM
My guild leader and buddy actually got across the chasm. Granted it was due to sheer dumb luck but he did. He was the person attempting to talk the other across but they had dropped off about half way across. So he ran out just to play around and actually made it all the way across. He frapsed it and everything. It had me cracken up.

Milolyen

Hiya again Milo!

Been hitting up the Abbot pretty hard myself - wanna brainstorm/compare notes again?

Milolyen
01-09-2008, 03:50 PM
Hiya again Milo!

Been hitting up the Abbot pretty hard myself - wanna brainstorm/compare notes again?

Well I would be up for it but out of the last 15 or so runs the only thing I seem to get ported to is ice and occasionally asteroid puzzles ... have not made it to the chasm since last time we talked lol. Been thinking on it though and best I can come up with without getting into the puzzle at this point is.

1. talker plots out a good path while others have mic and talk thru the begining of their puzzles.
2. once a good path is seen and others done talking he starts directing
3. the cross looks perpendicular to the chasm and strafe to keep an eye on the columns to help gauge how far they have traveled
4. talker gives directions ... just need to make sure everyone is on same understanding.

Been trying to get my crew to strafe across and give a count down such as "4 blocks go", "3" "2" "1" "stop" then to move left and right (as looking straight across) you say forward # or backward # cause lets face it some people (specially when in a puzzle like this and are nervous) are left/right challenged so forward/backward would work better. So far from what I have seen the hardest time with this one is communication, people just not understanding the directions given or are in a huge rush.

Ice puzzle is to the point where it is almost easy ... made it across with 3 different people and one was a first timer in that puzzle.

and asteroids ... that one is still a @#$^*. I think all the asteroids have to do is get close to the platform and get a rock thrown at them will blow you off also. Not sure why people really call this one a high twitch skill one because all it is is going into mouse look mode and aim and fire. It just has issues with partner interferring with your line of sight and like I said even if the asteroid gets to close it will still blow you off even if you hit it before it reaches you.

Fallout
01-09-2008, 04:07 PM
With a tightly knit group that runs it regularly and works to complete all the aspects of the raid well I would like to see if they get there and I for one think it can and will be done..

As far as raid loot is concerned it is not nearly so hard to get as you make tell - the reaver which is similiar to this raid in regards to length of quest it seems people have everything in there.



I agree it can probably be done, but like you said, need a tightly knit and dedicated group. That alone is a criteria that severly limits the raid. Right now don't even know what the improve items are, and if they're worth the effort just to get a small chance of getting it. When the dragon first came out, spend countless hours doing von 5 then trying to figure out how to beat it. Not only was it frustrating, its a big waste of time. After all that effort, you get a small chance of getting a raid loot.

I don't know, people are luckier then me. The titan, all I want is the belt. All the times I ran it, only seen it drop twice. And for 20th selection, naturally don't get it. I've 3 melee characters who could use it. Thats 60 runs just to hope you can see it on the reward. Double it if you don't get it the first time. Thats alot of runs. And thats just titan. The odds of getting a raid loot that you want is small.

Kromize
01-09-2008, 04:43 PM
I was wondering if at anytime, there will be a nerf for the Abbot. The titan needed one awhile ago and I believe for the average pug this one will need it too.

It didn't need a nerf, just needed a fix. The titan almost always bugged and stopped moving completely, making the quest impossible.

Hendrik
01-09-2008, 04:50 PM
Well I would be up for it but out of the last 15 or so runs the only thing I seem to get ported to is ice and occasionally asteroid puzzles ... have not made it to the chasm since last time we talked lol. Been thinking on it though and best I can come up with without getting into the puzzle at this point is.

1. talker plots out a good path while others have mic and talk thru the begining of their puzzles.
2. once a good path is seen and others done talking he starts directing
3. the cross looks perpendicular to the chasm and strafe to keep an eye on the columns to help gauge how far they have traveled
4. talker gives directions ... just need to make sure everyone is on same understanding.

Been trying to get my crew to strafe across and give a count down such as "4 blocks go", "3" "2" "1" "stop" then to move left and right (as looking straight across) you say forward # or backward # cause lets face it some people (specially when in a puzzle like this and are nervous) are left/right challenged so forward/backward would work better. So far from what I have seen the hardest time with this one is communication, people just not understanding the directions given or are in a huge rush.

Ice puzzle is to the point where it is almost easy ... made it across with 3 different people and one was a first timer in that puzzle.

and asteroids ... that one is still a @#$^*. I think all the asteroids have to do is get close to the platform and get a rock thrown at them will blow you off also. Not sure why people really call this one a high twitch skill one because all it is is going into mouse look mode and aim and fire. It just has issues with partner interferring with your line of sight and like I said even if the asteroid gets to close it will still blow you off even if you hit it before it reaches you.

Hehe, I have been to the chasm plenty now, so this will work out good.

As far as the chasm and my experiences to date;

1. There are 3 known maps to the chasm. Mapping them out is a good idea if you can.
2. Goggleman examines the tile map. Looks for the best STRAIGHT SHOT across. Yep, no left/right stuff. Find the route that takes you in one direction, forward.
3. Line your runner up. This is the hard part. I found it hard to judge where the runner is in relation to the tiles. Trying to locate a marker for the runner to align with the center of the phase tiles.
4. Goggleman only has to say two things. Go and Jump. Go to get him/her running, Jump, well, when to jump a open space.
5. Some of the puzzle maps have 2 openings. Going to try a Jump pot next time.

Using the above method, and getting both people familiar with both sides of the phase room, you can make it. With a little practice, you will be surprised how well it does work! Gonna try to fraps the other two patterns.

Ice Room;

Hehe, cake. Nothing to be said about this one.

Asteroid;

What I have found that is working best is stay in the center square of the platform! You can get hit and not fall off, but get back to the center, FAST! Both people need to stay there, back to back and cover a side. I can get VERY hectic. Slow down, aim, and fire. This is the one giving the most problems. Sometimes the asteroids are in an easy pattern, sometimes not.



Still working on getting the party to hop from isle to isle to survive inferno. Think we need to keep them a bit closer to the main platform so we can get off fast if have to.



Still need a dedicated group to run this with. Need people in there with experience and commitment to learn it, die, and try again - over and over. If your not in there trying to learn you will never get into the Raid. There will be thousands of more deaths before this one is down pat.

All I got for ya now Milo. But really go for the straight line route in the Chasm room. There is one map that has only 2 single tile jumps and that is the second line out from the goggleman.

GL pal!

Shade
01-09-2008, 08:35 PM
Have you ever been in there? The Abbott is a complete chump .

Yea definetely a chump, i mean hes so EASY!!!
His attack are so weak!!! :
400+ dmg Disintegrates (lol soo EZ too dodge who cares)
200+ dmg Undodgeable horrid wilting (lol so what , everyone has 200+ hp, even lvl12s)
Special attacks every 15 seconds:
Inferno (pfft so EZ its only 200 dmg per second and 100 dmg to spell points as well, ne1 can survive that np)
Phase wraiths (invisible ultra fast mobs that hit for 50 dmg a pierec, drain 70-120 SP per hit, and also hit you with greater dispell magic removing all your buffs every hit - LOL dey iz a joke, everyone pwns them so ez right?)
Encasement (Permanently encases you in stone - with no way to remove it at all and no chance of dodging it since its casted right ontop of you) - pfft so ez u dont really need to move much in this raid right?

And hes only got about 500,000 HP - cna just take him down in a couple mins lol.

Ya what a chump haha, if we could beat those puzzles we'd win NP for sure 100%!!

gpk
01-09-2008, 09:06 PM
Hehe, I have been to the chasm plenty now, so this will work out good.

As far as the chasm and my experiences to date;

1. There are 3 known maps to the chasm. Mapping them out is a good idea if you can.
2. Goggleman examines the tile map. Looks for the best STRAIGHT SHOT across. Yep, no left/right stuff. Find the route that takes you in one direction, forward.
3. Line your runner up. This is the hard part. I found it hard to judge where the runner is in relation to the tiles. Trying to locate a marker for the runner to align with the center of the phase tiles.
4. Goggleman only has to say two things. Go and Jump. Go to get him/her running, Jump, well, when to jump a open space.
5. Some of the puzzle maps have 2 openings. Going to try a Jump pot next time.

Using the above method, and getting both people familiar with both sides of the phase room, you can make it. With a little practice, you will be surprised how well it does work! Gonna try to fraps the other two patterns.


Where are you getting 3 known maps? Eladrin said it's randomized per puzzle instance and there don't seem to be any indications to the contrary.
You do know that even with voice latency set to the minimum of 100 ms there is still a very noticeable voice delay right?
You do know there is a visible action delay as well right? You can have 2 PCs side by side and you will still see a very noticeable delay between the actions on one PC and what you see on the other. Player A may see Player B on a tile when in fact Player B may be well ahead or even falling by that point.
Have you or your party members ever gotten across the 1st chasm? I know of 1 person who did it and did so SOLO.



Asteroid;

What I have found that is working best is stay in the center square of the platform! You can get hit and not fall off, but get back to the center, FAST! Both people need to stay there, back to back and cover a side. I can get VERY hectic. Slow down, aim, and fire. This is the one giving the most problems. Sometimes the asteroids are in an easy pattern, sometimes not.
Still working on getting the party to hop from isle to isle to survive inferno. Think we need to keep them a bit closer to the

And let's not forget the buffered shot issues that plague all ranged combat, projectile deflection issues from other player and very likely (not 100% confirmed) from other asteroids behind/in front of you (tip: Codogs posts on ray-tracing).

It's fun being encased on the iceberg and like having your soul stone sink to the bottom.

Hendrik
01-09-2008, 09:37 PM
Where are you getting 3 known maps? Eladrin said it's randomized per puzzle instance and there don't seem to be any indications to the contrary.
You do know that even with voice latency set to the minimum of 100 ms there is still a very noticeable voice delay right?
You do know there is a visible action delay as well right? You can have 2 PCs side by side and you will still see a very noticeable delay between the actions on one PC and what you see on the other. Player A may see Player B on a tile when in fact Player B may be well ahead or even falling by that point.
Have you or your party members ever gotten across the 1st chasm? I know of 1 person who did it and did so SOLO.



And let's not forget the buffered shot issues that plague all ranged combat, projectile deflection issues from other player and very likely (not 100% confirmed) from other asteroids behind/in front of you (tip: Codogs posts on ray-tracing).

It's fun being encased on the iceberg and like having your soul stone sink to the bottom.

Thank you for your constructive addition to the conversation.

:rolleyes:

Another /ignore.

Serpent
01-09-2008, 09:42 PM
Thank you for your constructive addition to the conversation.

:rolleyes:

Another /ignore.

If you have screen shots i would love to see them.

gpk
01-09-2008, 10:47 PM
Thank you for your constructive addition to the conversation.

:rolleyes:

Another /ignore.

Feel free to /ignore this post too :rolleyes:

Well if you want to be constructive, don't you think your reports should include some mention on how real world issues like latency,technological limits and bugs affect the puzzles?

Sugar coating doesn't help other players, the devs or DDO whatsoever.

wizzy_catt
01-10-2008, 01:34 AM
Feel free to /ignore this post too :rolleyes: now now kids, this kind of argument wont help anyone at all so why don't you all give devs what you think and don't comment on other peoples thoughts? sounds good?

peace
-cat

Hendrik
01-10-2008, 07:24 AM
now now kids, this kind of argument wont help anyone at all so why don't you all give devs what you think and don't comment on other peoples thoughts? sounds good?

peace
-cat

:)

People wonder why some will just not freely and willingly give out information on what is being tested and successful or not. Well, now we know by example.

All done trying to help and let people in on what has been tested and give idea's. I'll keep my testing to myself and those that are receptive to trying out new tactics.

Best of luck to everyone trying it out, you will need it.

Gladly share with those that request help - PM only.

Talk to ya again soon Milo and best of luck friend!

maddmatt70
01-10-2008, 02:55 PM
:)

People wonder why some will just not freely and willingly give out information on what is being tested and successful or not. Well, now we know by example.

All done trying to help and let people in on what has been tested and give idea's. I'll keep my testing to myself and those that are receptive to trying out new tactics.

Best of luck to everyone trying it out, you will need it.

Gladly share with those that request help - PM only.

Talk to ya again soon Milo and best of luck friend!

Why I kind of started this storm was there is not a single guild/ group/ etc. on my server that has been trying to beat the abbot for the last couple of weeks. Yes, the abbot raid should and will get changed for the casual players and to make it more pug friendly, but that does not mean that everybody on a server should just not try to beat it. I don't have the option to do what you Hendrik and some others do unless I transfer one of my characters to another server..

Hendrik
01-10-2008, 03:46 PM
Why I kind of started this storm was there is not a single guild/ group/ etc. on my server that has been trying to beat the abbot for the last couple of weeks. Yes, the abbot raid should and will get changed for the casual players and to make it more pug friendly, but that does not mean that everybody on a server should just not try to beat it. I don't have the option to do what you Hendrik and some others do unless I transfer one of my characters to another server..

Sorry to hear your server is weak.

I do not think the Abbot should be 'dumbed down'. A tweak here or there, sure, beyond that no. Everyone remembers the Titan, perfect example - beyond the bugs that plagued it - it was nigh unbeatable, so they said. Now, the Titan is a joke. Why? People went in, learned, tried, tested, died, and figured it out. Same thing here.

You in a Guild madd? If so, rally the troops! Best to get some experience now before we have the new DP when death will matter. You do not have to go in with a full group madd, just six. Exactly what we did. Ran with six to get some basic knowledge of the puzzles and as our understanding grew, we took more in further expanding our experience and got many more ideas to try.

Heck, put of a LFM, Abbot - Learning! Did that many times and gained and shared our knowledge. Don't go in with the mindset to win, go in to just learn.

If there is anything I can do to help, tips, tactics, ideas, PM me madd I will gladly share what I know.

GL and safe travels friend!

:cool:

Fallout
01-10-2008, 07:35 PM
but that does not mean that everybody on a server should just not try to beat it..

Let me pose the question to you: Why?

For the time invested in trying to beat it, what do you get if you do beat it? Bragging rights? Low chance of loot drop? There is little incentive to run it. +3 tomes? People run reaver for that. Right now for the amount of time and effort, most people dont' think its worthwhile to pursue it. Right now alot of people are leveling up new chars. Or trying to earn favor. I'm working on leveling and earning favor on my new sorc, plus running raids to equip my other chars. For casual gaming, means no time to try to figure out abbot, since large amount of time and little reward.

gpk
01-11-2008, 03:32 AM
Titan, perfect example - beyond the bugs that plagued it - it was nigh unbeatable, so they said. Now, the Titan is a joke. Why? People went in, learned, tried, tested, died, and figured it out. Same thing here.


That is totally untrue, the Titan was patched repeatedly, it had nothing to do with people "learning" anything.

Titan AI was tweaked so he moved more instead of standing still and not doing ANYTHING, force projectiles were reduced in damage and speed, titan and laser hitbox were enlarged, buggy domino pillars fixed (there is still a buggy pillar).
Then there are the other gameplay changes, level cap, new spells, casting on the move, ranging+reload on the move etc.
It's precisely this kind of "logic" and these misrepresentations that taint the forums and the feedback players give to the devs and other players.

Serpent
01-11-2008, 03:45 AM
Titan, perfect example - beyond the bugs that plagued it - it was nigh unbeatable, so they said. Now, the Titan is a joke. Why? People went in, learned, tried, tested, died, and figured it out. Same thing here.


Exactly what did they figure out? What did they try? Are you saying titan was beaten easily becasue we got good at it or were there other factors?

Milolyen
01-11-2008, 07:58 AM
Let me pose the question to you: Why?

For the time invested in trying to beat it, what do you get if you do beat it? Bragging rights? Low chance of loot drop? There is little incentive to run it. +3 tomes? People run reaver for that. Right now for the amount of time and effort, most people dont' think its worthwhile to pursue it. Right now alot of people are leveling up new chars. Or trying to earn favor. I'm working on leveling and earning favor on my new sorc, plus running raids to equip my other chars. For casual gaming, means no time to try to figure out abbot, since large amount of time and little reward.

Why? Can't give you a reason for you too but can only tell you why I do.

I have already got everything else beat enough times. I have absolutely no interest in doing the reaver/pop/desicrated temple of vol/abbot preraid/titan loot runs. I get bored to easly for that and I play to have fun not to be bored. Yes I would like to have bragging rights to say I was in the first raid to beat the abbot using the puzzles. As for the time/effert/exp loss, it is a game and no matter what all I gain by doing the other stuff is better 1's and 0's so I might as well have fun (and my ranger really would like the bow in there as well). I also do not really enjoy leveling up another char. I have 3 capped and abbot ready with 1750 favor and given a choice I would prefer to run my ranger full time and not even bother with the other 2. Only reason I leveled them in the first place was to help guild out, we where short clerics at one time and tanks at another so I leveled them. There is only a small amount of time required for the raid actually. Ran with full raid the other day and we had like 6 - 8 attempts at the puzzles in like an hour(once we formed). Sucked cause out of those I only got put in puzzles twice.

The Abbot is a tough raid to complete but don't we have enough loot runs out there already for you guys?

Milolyen

Milolyen
01-11-2008, 08:14 AM
Exactly what did they figure out? What did they try? Are you saying titan was beaten easily becasue we got good at it or were there other factors?

There was a lot of trial and error that went into the titan before he was fixed and nerfed. And one group did take him down before that happened. Would be a LONG list of different things we did while trying to figure him out. It is like any quest out there if it is everyones first time thru ... no one knows exactly what we are supposed to do and how we are supposed to do it. You think people just walked in and immediately knew what we know now? No that came from a lot of party wipes and with that raid back then that equaled an hour and half almost two hours of play time "waisted" as some of you seem to call it ... me I thought it was not waisted cause I had fun and we almost always learned something from them. Granted some of the lessons where like the first one ... oh **** he has a shield and you can not damage him anymore *party wipes in about 30 seconds after engaging him*.

Milolyen

gpk
01-11-2008, 12:19 PM
There was a lot of trial and error that went into the titan before he was fixed and nerfed. And one group did take him down before that happened. Would be a LONG list of different things we did while trying to figure him out. It is like any quest out there if it is everyones first time thru ... no one knows exactly what we are supposed to do and how we are supposed to do it. You think people just walked in and immediately knew what we know now? No that came from a lot of party wipes and with that raid back then that equaled an hour and half almost two hours of play time "waisted" as some of you seem to call it ... me I thought it was not waisted cause I had fun and we almost always learned something from them. Granted some of the lessons where like the first one ... oh **** he has a shield and you can not damage him anymore *party wipes in about 30 seconds after engaging him*.

Milolyen

Do you know how that one group that took the Titan down did it right before the patch? Look through the forums, it's a funny story.

Just because ONE group beat the original Titan raid with a ton of luck and "tricks" doesn't mean the raid was any less buggy or poorly designed.

I'm sure a very very lucky group with lots of repetitions and resources can beat the Abbot right now, I guess that means everything is A-OK right? Hopefully your soulstone won't be one at the bottom of the pool preventing you from looting upon completion...

Shade
01-11-2008, 01:09 PM
Do you know how that one group that took the Titan down did it right before the patch? Look through the forums, it's a funny story.

If titan was kept as it initially was - it would still be beaten fairly frequently now on live. It was nothing like abbot is now.

Thing about titan is just learning it and then its easy... But the learning took a long time as it did not take long for the uber version of titan to destroy your group, which then forced another 1+ hour preparation/preraid to get going at it again (i know these days you can do it in 20min but no one knew all those tricks to speed it up back when the quest first came out)

So i'd say even the most hard core groups might of given titan 50 tries, which works out to maybe 75 hours total effort or about 10 hours of actually fighting the titan.

Vs abbot where many have tried litterally hundreds of times and spent over 100 hours entirely on the fight itself sinces there very little downtime between attempts to discourage you... And yet still no one is really even close to beating it. It doesn't matter how well you know the raid in this case - you can learn the majority of how it works in a few hours, after that its just pure pain of trying to beat the 2 ******** puzzles (phase/asteroids) and after that beating an incredibly difficult boss fight.

Very different.

Milolyen
01-11-2008, 01:15 PM
Do you know how that one group that took the Titan down did it right before the patch? Look through the forums, it's a funny story.

Just because ONE group beat the original Titan raid with a ton of luck and "tricks" doesn't mean the raid was any less buggy or poorly designed.


I am not argueing that it was not buggy. However if you took a full raid of people that had never been in there before and heard nothing about it they would not succeed the first dozen or so tries either even now. I am just pointing out that because of all the time that alot of us spent in there before that fix/nerf (it was nerfed along with the bug issues being taken out) we knew exactly what to do once they made the changes. The fact that it was buggy has nothing to do with the fact that it still took many runs just to figure out what needed to be done due to how fast he could wipe a party. It was figured out with trial and error however for some reason a lot of people back then were willing to run it even though it was "unbeatable". I guess there is just more to do now so people are not giveing the abbot the same attention Titan got back then (other than the flameing there of). I still got more ideas on how to do the chasm that I think will work and if they do anyone should be able to make it across most the time but I want to test it before I go posting about it just takes some trial and error to figure things out.

Milolyen

maddmatt70
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
If titan was kept as it initially was - it would still be beaten fairly frequently now on live. It was nothing like abbot is now.

Thing about titan is just learning it and then its easy... But the learning took a long time as it did not take long for the uber version of titan to destroy your group, which then forced another 1+ hour preparation/preraid to get going at it again (i know these days you can do it in 20min but no one knew all those tricks to speed it up back when the quest first came out)

So i'd say even the most hard core groups might of given titan 50 tries, which works out to maybe 75 hours total effort or about 10 hours of actually fighting the titan.

Vs abbot where many have tried litterally hundreds of times and spent over 100 hours entirely on the fight itself sinces there very little downtime between attempts to discourage you... And yet still no one is really even close to beating it. It doesn't matter how well you know the raid in this case - you can learn the majority of how it works in a few hours, after that its just pure pain of trying to beat the 2 ******** puzzles (phase/asteroids) and after that beating an incredibly difficult boss fight.

Very different.

People have told me that they beat the asteroids a high % of the time with some work. The only puzzle really hanging up some people right now is the phase puzzle of which I tend to think there is some technique/path route/what have you that will help beating the phase puzzle that has not been learned. The boss fight is difficult, but for some of the highly skilled power gamers out there it is not really that difficult after a strategy determination is made.

My stance is I would be interested in joining a dedicated group that has some skill. I don't believe a pug group has a shot at this raid. The OP for all of his passion and energy went with pugs because well in part he didn't have many alternatives on our server..

Dimz
01-15-2008, 12:39 PM
From my view and experiences, no one is beating asteroid puzzle alot or even at all. One person did beat it in a run, but was knocked off after beating it and failed anyways. Only puzzle being beat enough is Ice puzzle. All other puzzles are a joke and asking too much from the common player,guild, or pug. I bet that the dev's didn't even try this raid they just threw it out there and said, "You guys want content? Here you go, we haven't tested it and won't fix it for awhile but just do it for hours/days on end you will/might get it!" It is like they wrote bad ideas, threw them in a hat and picked out a few.

CaseStringer
01-16-2008, 09:27 PM
...Let's not forget people. Beyond the Raid Loots items we may or may not be interested in, there are still the Quest rewards from Emerald Claw/SilverFlame Talismans being upgraded and turned into Pok/Jakob upon completion of Abbot Raid. I am even more interested in this list, then i am in the Raid Loot list(although there are a couple items i would'nt mind possessing there too). What Cleric wouldn't want the Beacon of Tira Helm(Sup.Ben.6,Sup.Dev.6 & Sup.Combust.6) or WF out there who wouldn't relish a Docent of Fealty(+6 AC bonus & 22 SR)...all Silver Flame side... or Caster who wouldn't be more formidable with perhaps a Plume of Adherance helm(Imp.Max.1,Sup.Mag.6 & Sup.Combust.6) or a Raiment of the Fervent Robe(Nightsheild 1/rest,Wizardry6 & Gtr.Spell Pen.6)?....Those items and to put the Abbot 'to-bed', are more of a focus to me personally, than most of the potential Raid items...I mean, the LOTD Saga has been around for such along time i really just want to wrap it up and move on...How relevant is the next Module when you get out to the Vale, and the guy from the 12 says..'Abbot had part in the 13th Eclipse' If no1 beats him? :confused: before you actually get a real decent chance of beating the Raid b4 new Module is released?!?...Just my thoughts...Thanx 4 listening!:cool:

Dimz
01-17-2008, 05:31 AM
...Let's not forget people. Beyond the Raid Loots items we may or may not be interested in, there are still the Quest rewards from Emerald Claw/SilverFlame Talismans being upgraded and turned into Pok/Jakob upon completion of Abbot Raid. I am even more interested in this list, then i am in the Raid Loot list(although there are a couple items i would'nt mind possessing there too). What Cleric wouldn't want the Beacon of Tira Helm(Sup.Ben.6,Sup.Dev.6 & Sup.Combust.6) or WF out there who wouldn't relish a Docent of Fealty(+6 AC bonus & 22 SR)...all Silver Flame side... or Caster who wouldn't be more formidable with perhaps a Plume of Adherance helm(Imp.Max.1,Sup.Mag.6 & Sup.Combust.6) or a Raiment of the Fervent Robe(Nightsheild 1/rest,Wizardry6 & Gtr.Spell Pen.6)?....Those items and to put the Abbot 'to-bed', are more of a focus to me personally, than most of the potential Raid items...I mean, the LOTD Saga has been around for such along time i really just want to wrap it up and move on...How relevant is the next Module when you get out to the Vale, and the guy from the 12 says..'Abbot had part in the 13th Eclipse' If no1 beats him? :confused: before you actually get a real decent chance of beating the Raid b4 new Module is released?!?...Just my thoughts...Thanx 4 listening!:cool:

I agree totally on what your saying i am going to start working with this group of 5-8 people.. we are beating ice and asteroids.. just not goggles yet. But that one we are getting better on.