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View Full Version : A suggestion on how to let high level characters help low level characters.



Missing_Minds
12-19-2007, 12:09 PM
CoH/V had a nice system to help you be bumped up to join higher level groups or be bumped down to help lower levels. Due to how they store character information, they can remove powers for the lower leveling. I already understand that can not be done here and nor am I asking for it. What follows should be able to be implemented within the current constraints of the game. (At least as far as I understand it.)


Allow the higher levels to help out the lower levels. This can give the higher level character something to do other than just constant raid or sit around bored. Some people like to help out and teach but have a harder time doing so because with each quest you run, chances are you will always gain XP. At some point you have to level or you just lose it.

For starters, a new party group type needs to be created. We have raid groups, we have the vs assigning in raids, so lets create a new 6 man party type. I'll just call it a "helper" group/mode.

The "helper" mode is based on the party leader, with the following applied to all party members.

* 1 negative level per lvl higher than party leader.
* -5% xp per level higher than party leader. I see no need to make this higher due to the fact people helping could be lvl 10+ and therefore wouldn't be getting much of any xp to begin with. This also lets members that are 1 to 2 levels higher than party leader to still gain XP be it large or small amounts. (some quests are worth a lot of XP after all)


This will require a new "negative" lvl icon so as to not be confused with in quest negative levels.

Issues that can break this idea.

Negative levels MUST be applied properly.
* This means if you have 7 negative levels and you are a lvl 10 helping out a lvl 3, your fireballs should only do 3d6 damage, not 10d6 still. (DDO does not have the ability to remove the spells/slots known. They could if they saved character data in a successive fashion, but if they did that they could implement a respect system. As it is, they do not, therefore they can not. This methodology will allow this idea to work within current constraints. Perhaps not idea, but we work with what we have, not with what we want.)
* This means that negative levels give a -1 penalty per negative level to attack, saves, spell DCs, etc. Not -2 per level. By fixing the negative levels in this manner, we do not have to worry about casters being able to wipe everything out with just a few spells. (I could be wrong, requires play testing.) For those that claim that casters would just FoD or PK or WoF everything... Look at the DC saves with negative levels first, then play test it.

High level equipment will always be an issue, but for this, I don't see it being game breaking. People taking the penalties are there to help out the lower characters and as such they are already taking a penalty to XP. I do not know if taking a penalty to the loot tables should also apply? I think not just because the re work that would need to be done.

Can people power level this way? yes. Could they in other games, yes. Oh well.

Now, it could be possible that enhancements could be temporarily removed as there are definitive trees AND level requirements.

Nestorious
12-19-2007, 12:26 PM
Sorry but I oppose this in every way imaginable....

I am all for helping other ppl., dont get me wrong, but I do feel that to teach someone to fish is better than giving them a fish. What I mean is, to "learn" a quest or gameplay at all for that matter the setting needs to be "as real" also. Meaning, by allowing a 14 lvl character enter a 6+ lvl quest with others is totally wrong and will take away from the gameplay in general. This is a game of progression not how much can I help the other guy out to get him to lvl 14 also so he can be bored out his mind as well. It drastically takes away from the idea of the game. Thats like PnP and getting to role up a lvl 10 character to start - first, theres no real love for the character or adaptation to the players personality they develop with that toon. Second, the game is also about education through trial/error/discovery/adventure, all of that is ripped away allowing higher level toons "hold ppl's hands" and simply walk them through a quest.

Now if you have a low/mid level toon that fits into the parties constraint and your not surrounded by ppl who DONT know the quests but have it stuck in thier mind for some reason THINK that they do, I actually DO that now. Heck, I roll lowbies over and over for a couple of reasons, help others**, learn the new players on the server, and sometimes get a good laugh at ppl as they go through the trials and tribulations I did also when I first came to the game...

I know(or at least believe) your intention is to help the newer ppl but in the end I think you would be doing more damage than help to thier game experience with DDO.

FunnyCide
12-19-2007, 12:27 PM
I would be one of those high level players willing to help low levels if I could but I have lvl 13 and the rest 14's. =( It just is really annoying not being able to help friends and guildies level their characters.

I've played two other MMO's and they both have a system in place so low level and high level can group together in some manner or another so that way if you just started the game and a friend has been playing for a long time you can still play together without too much issue. ^_^

I would love to see something like this added to DDO.

Lithic
12-19-2007, 01:07 PM
IMO the encounter areas are already good enough to help out with a much larger level range. Theres a 10 level range in the orchard (10-19 IIRC), and even sorrowdusk is 4-11.

In any case, being powerleveled seems to be a cheap and boring way to level. I sure dont like being in a party where I am basically sucking exp and giving nothing back in return. I only join those parties if they are doing a particularly painfull favor run anyway :D

Missing_Minds
12-19-2007, 01:17 PM
IMO the encounter areas are already good enough to help out with a much larger level range. Theres a 10 level range in the orchard (10-19 IIRC), and even sorrowdusk is 4-11.

In any case, being powerleveled seems to be a cheap and boring way to level. I sure dont like being in a party where I am basically sucking exp and giving nothing back in return. I only join those parties if they are doing a particularly painfull favor run anyway :D

It wouldn't be power leveling because the party leader sets the highest level. (maybe I didn't make that clear enough?)

but it would be uber equipped helping.

The encounter areas are not good enough. They are freaking BORING. oh wee.. we only have another 2000 kills to go. At least in quests you can get something out of it to show for the effort.

Nestorious, I have no problems with people being against this idea either. I'd much rather people dissect the pros and cons and perhaps in doing so the Devs may see something they like and use the ideas for later work. You have one method of helping people, and their is nothing wrong with that method at all. I just can't stand re rolling all the time so I don't. I too prefer to let people learn from their mistakes, sadly some have to be spoon fed quite a bit before they get a clue. And some just never do. (yes, I don't bother trying to teach those people anymore.)

Yukiko
12-19-2007, 02:21 PM
Final Fantsy online had a system like this.
It was called a world hat.
You put it on and you become the same level of the friend you were trying to help

MysticTheurge
12-19-2007, 03:07 PM
I think an "exemplar" system could work in DDO, but only if it applied to items too.

That is if you exemplar down to 3rd to help someone out, you can't use any items with ML above 3.

Anything else is just asking for trouble, since loot plays such a huge role in the power of characters in DDO.

Arianrhod
12-19-2007, 03:16 PM
EQ2 had a mentor system something like this (temporarily lowering the higher level character to the level of the lower one). Honestly, it was kind of a mess (at least at first, which turned a lot of people off to it). People had to redo their quickbars to mentor, then redo them back when finished, it took some time to iron out the bugs with equipment "leveling down" properly, and to top it off, anyone who wasn't at the level cap was disinclined to do it because they took a huge experience hit on any quests they ran. In theory, I'd love the idea of being able to temporarily "level down" to help out lower level characters (or just hang out with slower-leveling friends), but the technical difficulties make me a bit hesitant to suggest putting dev time into it at present...

Missing_Minds
12-19-2007, 04:12 PM
I think an "exemplar" system could work in DDO, but only if it applied to items too.

That is if you exemplar down to 3rd to help someone out, you can't use any items with ML above 3.

Anything else is just asking for trouble, since loot plays such a huge role in the power of characters in DDO.

And this is the biggiest headache with the proposed system. I'm still trying to work out some way so that players so not need to re equip so completely. I mean how many lvl 14s would have a complete set of gear change just laying around to be able to use at a given moments notice.

A speed penalty? Nope. that would just really annoy players.
Reduction of AC based on party leader level? maybe.
Reduction of mana based on party leader leavel? maybe.

I just would really hate to *force* individuals to change out their entire character just to help someone. That would be such a pain to the point it I really can't see many people using it.