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SanePsycho
12-08-2007, 07:57 PM
I have a most wonderful idea I have to share! After reading countless posts of players making demands of the devs for an uncountable number of different things (mostly new content), and seeing that Turbine is without a Lead Content Designer (http://www.cytiva.com/turbin/ext/DetailTurbine.asp?turbin1347) for DDO (or whatever that post actually implies), a lightbulb went off.

The big thing in game development right now seems to be player created content, and why shouldn't it be? Less work for devs, a near limitless supply of content for players, and a new way for both players and developers to interact and foster a strong community. But in an MMO? Oh yes! Ryzom Ring was an expansion to Ryzom last year that allowed players to create instanced "adventures" they could invite people into. Given the design of DDO and its use of instanced "dungeons", I can't think of anything more perfect!

What I envision:
Give us, the players, your toolset. Modify it, tweak it, dumb-it-down and hand it over! Give me the ability to create my own dungeon, to set deadly traps around every corner, to create mind-wrenching puzzles that confuse those who dare enter, to script the spawn of 12 firey dragons just as the players begin to rush for the exit after a gruesome battle! Let me create a series of modules and form a campaign for my guildmates to venture through as my story unfolds for them. Let me build a shady tavern off a muddy road where I can roleplay with my friends and tell stories of my past adventures and conquests ;) And oh how I've dreamt of writing that beautiful golden DM text myself ^.^

What I propose:
Create a modified version of your in-house toolset, that will give us DMs (yes, we can have them even in DDO!) at least some basic functionality. Let us use the resources you've already created (terrain textures, monsters, tilesets, various placeables etc.), and let us use new resources as you release them with new content. The technical complications of allowing fully user created content (i.e. textures and models and such as is done in NWN) could be forgone by limiting resources to those Turbine created (basically, we can only build adventures with the resources you give us).
I'm trying to abstract the idea from implementation because I don't really feel its my place to tell you how anything should be done, and am just using a concept that could possibly work from this player's perspective.
In a big public area accessible by everyone like the harbor or market even, have one of those quest portal door thingies (yes, that's the technical term) that links to player created adventures. Instead of the normal mode selection window, have a window that shows all the currently running adventures and who "owns" them. If I see the module my friend created I could click "ask for invite" and it would alert the owner I would like to enter, and he/she can accept or reject (kinda like inviting someone to your group but in reverse). My client would then download the necessary files and would join the game when its finished. Once the group is all together we all set off on our merry way burning and looting things as we go, just like any other adventure. There could be a "meeting room" of sorts that you enter before the actual module where players could gather pre-game and chat, prepare spells, and wait for the download to finish, then all enter together.
Because all of this would be user created content and, for the most part, uncontrolled by Turbine, unlike regular quests, players don't gain experience or get to keep any loot they find, but they could earn something else instead. For example rather then making all toolset resources available immediately, players could earn access to use new resources by building and playing in user created adventures. Or have characters level separately when in the user created adventure dimension, so-to-speak. Regardless, there are some very cool possibilities.

User created content would bring so much to DDO. Amazing press, more subscribers, and a butload of good times! Who's with me on this? Dungeons and Dragons has always been about roleplaying and running off on some grand adventure that a buddy crafted to test your wit. Let us have it!

(My apologies if I ramble and trail in my post, I'm extremely exhausted and hardly conscious :P )

MysticTheurge
12-08-2007, 07:58 PM
You know I thought about applying, but I don't really have enough experience to be a Lead anything. :(

Aspenor
12-08-2007, 08:17 PM
You know I thought about applying, but I don't really have enough experience to be a Lead anything. :(

You could be a lead weight.

GuitarHero
12-08-2007, 08:39 PM
You could be a lead weight.

hey, even those are useful for something. I mean, if its windy, you need one on your line when your fishing, or your hook goes straight into the weeds every time!

GlassCannon
12-09-2007, 01:20 AM
I have a most wonderful idea I have to share! After reading countless posts of players making demands of the devs for an uncountable number of different things (mostly new content), and seeing that Turbine is without a Lead Content Designer (http://www.cytiva.com/turbin/ext/DetailTurbine.asp?turbin1347) for DDO (or whatever that post actually implies), a lightbulb went off.

Oh! You found my lightbulb! Thanks much, I'll screw that back into my head now.

I've proposed this numerous times now.

Shall I cite my posts? No... I am too unconcerned for that.

I proposed a kit like NWN has. I proposed Player Created Dungeon contests.

I doubt it's coming anytime soon. I proposed it back in MODULE 3.

SanePsycho
12-09-2007, 07:31 AM
I proposed a kit like NWN has. I proposed Player Created Dungeon contests.

I doubt it's coming anytime soon. I proposed it back in MODULE 3.

Well I'm glad to see they take our feedback seriously >.< *Hands lightbulb back to Glasscannon* Guess we aren't going to need these...

Hendrik
12-09-2007, 08:07 AM
Who would be QA on player made content?

I mean, we have to have someone to test it out and make sure the proper risk/reward is there. Cannot have some player made quest that is (more) out of whack then we have now. This means Turbine would have to do it in addition to everything else that they have to do to bring us content. Having them take time out to go over player made content would take away from what they have to do - further delaying Modules.

Would player made content be good? Hells yea it would! Just look at NWN and what the player base has done there.

I just do not think we are at, or if we ever will be, to the point where player made content would be viable. Just do not think there is the manpower nor tech to pursue it. Would be very difficult to keep the vision for DDO and quality if the content creation was taken out of the DEV's hands and placed in ours.

SanePsycho
12-09-2007, 08:14 AM
There doesn't need to be any type of QA, it's player made. It's not like I send my NWN(2) mods to Bioware/Obsidian and ask them for a gold star before I release it to the vault ;) Check this (http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring) out to see what I imagine. And with the instance design of DDO I don't see what could work more perfect with as little work.

Dane_McArdy
12-09-2007, 08:18 AM
There doesn't need to be any type of QA, it's player made. It's not like I send my NWN(2) mods to Bioware/Obsidian and ask them for a gold star before I release it to the vault ;) Check this (http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring) out to see what I imagine. And with the instance design of DDO I don't see what could work more perfect with as little work.

I'm not paying 15 a month to play some player made dungeon.

Besides, the have talked about why they don't do this.

cdbd3rd
12-09-2007, 08:33 AM
As Hendrik was hinting at...
What would be the controlling factor to keep someone from making the "kill a kobold, loot a level 14 chest" scenario? We all know it would happen - and don't even need to comment on what the farmers would do with that ability.

At the very least, I would think that any character that transfered to the 'player-created-zone', would have to become a 'player-created-zone' only toon after that. Perhaps a server devoted to player-created instances with a ban on being able to pay for a server transfer from that server.

*shrugs* Just random thoughts about it all. Doubt if we'll ever see it come around.

Hendrik
12-09-2007, 08:42 AM
There doesn't need to be any type of QA, it's player made. It's not like I send my NWN(2) mods to Bioware/Obsidian and ask them for a gold star before I release it to the vault ;) Check this (http://www.ryzom.com/ryzom-ring) out to see what I imagine. And with the instance design of DDO I don't see what could work more perfect with as little work.

Sorry Sane, but no QA on player made content is ripe with abuse. Kill a Kobold for 500k XP? Think loot is out of control now? Wait til a player can populate a chest! :P

I know the process for made content with NWN, have a few of my own up. NWN design model included end user created content, DDO does not.

*EDIT*

TY for your addition Cd!

Hvymetal
12-09-2007, 08:45 AM
Also it seems that WOTC seems to have a fair amount of input into DDO so almost any player-made content would also have to be run by them possibly......

Hendrik
12-09-2007, 08:47 AM
Also it seems that WOTC seems to have a fair amount of input into DDO so almost any player-made content would also have to be run by them possibly......

Very true!

Not only logistical issues but legal it would seem to pursue end user created content.

MysticTheurge
12-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Would player made content be good? Hells yea it would!

Well... some of it would.

Some of it would also be really, really bad.

Hendrik
12-09-2007, 12:34 PM
Well... some of it would.

Some of it would also be really, really bad.

How true.

Ghoste
12-09-2007, 12:39 PM
But I get accused of causing trouble whenever I introduce my own "player created content". People say im griefing and killing party members and stuff like that.

Honest, I didn't know the platform was on enough of a slant to send the cleric sliding off into the lava!

SanePsycho
12-09-2007, 12:56 PM
Well you obviously didn't read the whole post, or missed the part where I mention that players don't gain experience or loot from player created adventures. I'm sitting here, laughing my ass off reading people's complaints about legal issues and whatnot; there is nothing you people won't whine about.

Strakeln
12-09-2007, 01:05 PM
User-created maps are one of the major reasons Starcraft continues to be an astounding worldwide success.

Cheg
12-09-2007, 01:38 PM
They seem like a cool idea. I played another game who recently introduced an area designer, and it was (considering the size of the game), a huge success, with 2 large player made areas being released. A full explanation of the quest was given in the design forum, so the GM's could read exactly what it was going to be about, and whether it sounded like it could fit in the game. If it did, they gave the green light, the player finished building it, then the usual guys who QA'd stuff did the QA for this. No piles of 5m gold at every turn!

For DDO however, it will be a bit trickier. Storyline, and fully implementing the right lore into a quest is critical.

Hendrik
12-09-2007, 03:46 PM
Well you obviously didn't read the whole post, or missed the part where I mention that players don't gain experience or loot from player created adventures. I'm sitting here, laughing my ass off reading people's complaints about legal issues and whatnot; there is nothing you people won't whine about.

I see discussion, not whining.

OK, beyond a new quest to run, that you have to DL if you don't have it, and has not had proper QA, what is the 'point'?

Ok, yea, have a new Quest to run. No XP? No loot?

Really think that would float? Sure, people would run it once or twice - if that if they knew ahead that there is no XP/Loot.

Don't get me wrong, I like end user made content - in the right game/setting. Unfortunatly DDO is not the right game for that...

sirgog
12-09-2007, 04:08 PM
I'd like the idea, except for one thing - any truly memorable villians/NPCs you create (the Stormreaver, Black Abbot, Zawabi, etc) would technically permanently become a part of the Eberron world for all pen&paper campaigns if implemented in game.

MysticTheurge
12-09-2007, 04:51 PM
I'd like the idea, except for one thing - any truly memorable villians/NPCs you create (the Stormreaver, Black Abbot, Zawabi, etc) would technically permanently become a part of the Eberron world for all pen&paper campaigns if implemented in game.

Well that's kind of debatable.

They've been pretty good about keeping Eberron Canon undiluted by at least sort of suggesting that a lot of interpretations in various mediums are "One Person's Eberron" rather than the official Eberron.

Kind of like when I run an Eberron campaign with my tabletop group, you don't have to include my stuff in your game of Eberron.

binnsr
12-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Sorry Sane, but no QA on player made content is ripe with abuse. Kill a Kobold for 500k XP? Think loot is out of control now? Wait til a player can populate a chest! :P

I know the process for made content with NWN, have a few of my own up. NWN design model included end user created content, DDO does not.

*EDIT*

TY for your addition Cd!

It doesn't have to be all that ..
Have the XP automatically calculated based on size, number of mobs, etc. (not going to try to figure that out - that would be the dev teams job :)) Alternatively, Turbines QA team that does XP assignment now could play-test it and assign XP values manually.

Regarding loot, if it's a lvl8 quest, then any chest in the quest would be automatically a lvl8 chest. By doing that, the loot is guaranteed to be the same as what you pull from any other lvl8 quest. It also negates the chance of a player adding unbalanced named items (like a ml12 +5 cold iron holy burst greataxe of pure good with a modified crit range) because the loot is auto-generated based on the level of the quest.


Meh.. the more I think on it, the more I sorta agree with you .. For this to really work, both of these, even automating both loot and XP would still require some sort of QA.. Mostly because my loot idea does not preclude a player from making a lvl15 dungeon that consists of slaughtering one CR3 kobold guarding 5 chests in a single room:rolleyes:..

cdbd3rd
12-09-2007, 05:45 PM
Well you obviously didn't read the whole post, or missed the part where I mention that players don't gain experience or loot from player created adventures. I'm sitting here, laughing my ass off reading people's complaints about legal issues and whatnot; there is nothing you people won't whine about.


Hmmm. I admit I did miss the small paragraph mentioning no XPs or items.
I think you would find an area that offered no benefits (XP or loot) would have a limited draw for folks. One visit to see it, then never return. I stand by the option I mentioned about having the area seperate from the regular servers.

As for the whining comment... :rolleyes:

Hvymetal
12-10-2007, 03:08 AM
Well you obviously didn't read the whole post, or missed the part where I mention that players don't gain experience or loot from player created adventures. I'm sitting here, laughing my ass off reading people's complaints about legal issues and whatnot; there is nothing you people won't whine about.
Yes cause legal issues are a whine and not a REAL reason......

Aethene
12-10-2007, 07:37 AM
I'm not paying 15 a month to play some player made dungeon.

Besides, the have talked about why they don't do this.



That's right... i'm paying $15 a month to play the same old stuff i play every month ;)

Bombalo
12-10-2007, 07:55 AM
While I don't think that pure player created content would be the way to go I wouldn't mind seeing a monthly contest for a dungeon or two that turbine would develop into a later release.

Hvymetal
12-10-2007, 07:56 AM
While I don't think that pure player created content would be the way to go I wouldn't mind seeing a monthly contest for a dungeon or two that turbine would develop into a later release.This I could definatly get behind...

oronisi
12-10-2007, 09:19 AM
Well I'm glad to see they take our feedback seriously >.< *Hands lightbulb back to Glasscannon* Guess we aren't going to need these...

I think they even responded to one of the previous times this was proposed. It's not that they don't like the idea, it's that it's not feasible. It supposedly would take more effort to weed through all the **** we would submit to Turbine, rebalance the overpowered loot and xp we coded in, QA the dungeon, look for bugs and secrets we snuck in, etc, than it would for them to make their own content.

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 09:38 AM
I think they even responded to one of the previous times this was proposed. It's not that they don't like the idea, it's that it's not feasible. It supposedly would take more effort to weed through all the **** we would submit to Turbine, rebalance the overpowered loot and xp we coded in, QA the dungeon, look for bugs and secrets we snuck in, etc, than it would for them to make their own content.

But the real funny part about this 'suggestion' is that the OP want's no XP/Loot/QA for player made Quests.

So, what's the point?

Spend a **** load of time creating something that you won't be rewarded for running. All that time and effort for what? It's a waste of time to waste time. Shall we touch on potential bandwidth issues with all those people DL Quests from Turbine? Viruses from some dysfunctional child? Of course that would be labeled as 'whining' to look at a bigger picture....

Yea, sure, Ill spend hours in some player made chain quest, maybe loosing XP and cost of repairs/supplies, only to come out at the end with no XP, beyond debt, no loot to recover my expenses, and nothing to show for it beyond wasting some time.

Shortsighted to say the least.

I agree with you oronisi, player made content would detract from what Turbine does for us and thusly giving more fuel to the haters.

Arianrhod
12-10-2007, 09:42 AM
Well, they could at least have an official location (email address, forum area, or whatnot) for people to submit ideas for new content (putting it all in the development forum tends to result in it getting lost amid bug complaints, suggestions for class improvements, etc.). A uniform format for submitting such ideas would make it easier for the devs to pick & choose what they'd like to add to the game.

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 09:45 AM
Well, they could at least have an official location (email address, forum area, or whatnot) for people to submit ideas for new content (putting it all in the development forum tends to result in it getting lost amid bug complaints, suggestions for class improvements, etc.). A uniform format for submitting such ideas would make it easier for the devs to pick & choose what they'd like to add to the game.

Agreed!

A place where we can submit idea's/features we would like to see is a great idea. Keeping it on-topic would be the hard part!

:)

This would be as close as we can get to end user content.

Vorn
12-10-2007, 10:08 AM
MysticTheurge did some forum generated adventure concepts quite a while back. It was a whole campaign quest chain and was pretty fun to participate in. Perhaps even a contest worthy topic?

neoanderthal
12-10-2007, 01:33 PM
That's right... i'm paying $15 a month to play the same old stuff i play every month ;)

You do have a choice, after all. I don't know about you, but no turbine employee showed up at my apartment, and demanded that I hand them money and sign on every few days... :P

oronisi
12-10-2007, 02:04 PM
But the real funny part about this 'suggestion' is that the OP want's no XP/Loot/QA for player made Quests.

So, what's the point?

Spend a **** load of time creating something that you won't be rewarded for running. All that time and effort for what? It's a waste of time to waste time. Shall we touch on potential bandwidth issues with all those people DL Quests from Turbine? Viruses from some dysfunctional child? Of course that would be labeled as 'whining' to look at a bigger picture....

Yea, sure, Ill spend hours in some player made chain quest, maybe loosing XP and cost of repairs/supplies, only to come out at the end with no XP, beyond debt, no loot to recover my expenses, and nothing to show for it beyond wasting some time.

Shortsighted to say the least.

I agree with you oronisi, player made content would detract from what Turbine does for us and thusly giving more fuel to the haters.


Actually, I don't agree with what I posted (paraphrasing what I think I remember the devs saying). The devs definitely have a problem coming up with quality quest ideas. It's like they are filling out mad libs and not even using different sheets, it's all the same:

You fight [insert monster here] in an effort to [save someone / get something / clean out the dungeon]. This quest will take place in an epic [long / very long quest length] [tileset (sewer1, sewer2, temple1, cave1, fire_cave, ice_cave)]. To reach your goals, you will need to collect [1, 2, 3, or 4] keys, or destroy [1, 2,3, or 4] sub-bosses.

In the very least, I think the DDO devs could take player-made IDEAS and build dungeons around them. Ideas can't contain exploits, unbalancing items, glitches, or secrets. But they could improve the quality and diversity of what we have to play with.

neoanderthal
12-10-2007, 02:14 PM
Actually, I don't agree with what I posted (paraphrasing what I think I remember the devs saying). The devs definitely have a problem coming up with quality quest ideas. It's like they are filling out mad libs and not even using different sheets, it's all the same:

You fight [insert monster here] in an effort to [save someone / get something / clean out the dungeon]. This quest will take place in an epic [long / very long quest length] [tileset (sewer1, sewer2, temple1, cave1, fire_cave, ice_cave)]. To reach your goals, you will need to collect [1, 2, 3, or 4] keys, or destroy [1, 2,3, or 4] sub-bosses.

In the very least, I think the DDO devs could take player-made IDEAS and build dungeons around them. Ideas can't contain exploits, unbalancing items, glitches, or secrets. But they could improve the quality and diversity of what we have to play with.

Now that would be cool - maybe run a contest ( like the community guide books ) every month, and select one or two ideas per month to implement as new content. That would be cool!

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Actually, I don't agree with what I posted (paraphrasing what I think I remember the devs saying). The devs definitely have a problem coming up with quality quest ideas. It's like they are filling out mad libs and not even using different sheets, it's all the same:

You fight [insert monster here] in an effort to [save someone / get something / clean out the dungeon]. This quest will take place in an epic [long / very long quest length] [tileset (sewer1, sewer2, temple1, cave1, fire_cave, ice_cave)]. To reach your goals, you will need to collect [1, 2, 3, or 4] keys, or destroy [1, 2,3, or 4] sub-bosses.

In the very least, I think the DDO devs could take player-made IDEAS and build dungeons around them. Ideas can't contain exploits, unbalancing items, glitches, or secrets. But they could improve the quality and diversity of what we have to play with.

Every MMORPG, not just DDO, suffers from this problem in Quest design from my experience.

Never hear or read me saying otherwise: Player input on design, at any level, is a good thing. The player base here is extremely resourceful and a fountain of ideas - good or bad. A resource that should be utilized.

Really think the quality of quests we have is not that good? Trying to understand, why I ask. See, I think the quality of quests we have (design, layout, atmosphere, etc.) is rather high - again, compared to my past experiences.

As far as diversity, like choices, well, more is good!

:)

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Now that would be cool - maybe run a contest ( like the community guide books ) every month, and select one or two ideas per month to implement as new content. That would be cool!

Have that person 'work' with the DEV's, under a NDA.

Now this would be something and big boost to the community!!!

Heck, if not for a whole Quest, this would still be a great if they could design a room, a big fight, a trap. Some direct community involvement in shaping our game!

Maybe allow them to a story, kind of like a behind the scenes thing. Let a player tell the players what he/she experienced.

/brainstorm

ccheath776
12-10-2007, 03:21 PM
I have a most wonderful idea I have to share! After reading countless posts of players making demands of the devs for an uncountable number of different things (mostly new content), and seeing that Turbine is without a Lead Content Designer (http://www.cytiva.com/turbin/ext/DetailTurbine.asp?turbin1347) for DDO (or whatever that post actually implies), a lightbulb went off.

The big thing in game development right now seems to be player created content, and why shouldn't it be? Less work for devs, a near limitless supply of content for players, and a new way for both players and developers to interact and foster a strong community. But in an MMO? Oh yes! Ryzom Ring was an expansion to Ryzom last year that allowed players to create instanced "adventures" they could invite people into. Given the design of DDO and its use of instanced "dungeons", I can't think of anything more perfect!

What I envision:
Give us, the players, your toolset. Modify it, tweak it, dumb-it-down and hand it over! Give me the ability to create my own dungeon, to set deadly traps around every corner, to create mind-wrenching puzzles that confuse those who dare enter, to script the spawn of 12 firey dragons just as the players begin to rush for the exit after a gruesome battle! Let me create a series of modules and form a campaign for my guildmates to venture through as my story unfolds for them. Let me build a shady tavern off a muddy road where I can roleplay with my friends and tell stories of my past adventures and conquests ;) And oh how I've dreamt of writing that beautiful golden DM text myself ^.^

What I propose:
Create a modified version of your in-house toolset, that will give us DMs (yes, we can have them even in DDO!) at least some basic functionality. Let us use the resources you've already created (terrain textures, monsters, tilesets, various placeables etc.), and let us use new resources as you release them with new content. The technical complications of allowing fully user created content (i.e. textures and models and such as is done in NWN) could be forgone by limiting resources to those Turbine created (basically, we can only build adventures with the resources you give us).
I'm trying to abstract the idea from implementation because I don't really feel its my place to tell you how anything should be done, and am just using a concept that could possibly work from this player's perspective.
In a big public area accessible by everyone like the harbor or market even, have one of those quest portal door thingies (yes, that's the technical term) that links to player created adventures. Instead of the normal mode selection window, have a window that shows all the currently running adventures and who "owns" them. If I see the module my friend created I could click "ask for invite" and it would alert the owner I would like to enter, and he/she can accept or reject (kinda like inviting someone to your group but in reverse). My client would then download the necessary files and would join the game when its finished. Once the group is all together we all set off on our merry way burning and looting things as we go, just like any other adventure. There could be a "meeting room" of sorts that you enter before the actual module where players could gather pre-game and chat, prepare spells, and wait for the download to finish, then all enter together.
Because all of this would be user created content and, for the most part, uncontrolled by Turbine, unlike regular quests, players don't gain experience or get to keep any loot they find, but they could earn something else instead. For example rather then making all toolset resources available immediately, players could earn access to use new resources by building and playing in user created adventures. Or have characters level separately when in the user created adventure dimension, so-to-speak. Regardless, there are some very cool possibilities.

User created content would bring so much to DDO. Amazing press, more subscribers, and a butload of good times! Who's with me on this? Dungeons and Dragons has always been about roleplaying and running off on some grand adventure that a buddy crafted to test your wit. Let us have it!

(My apologies if I ramble and trail in my post, I'm extremely exhausted and hardly conscious :P )

i am already in the process of making this.
I am getting into game design myself. Watch the forums in the next few days for more details. I think you will be quite thrilled.

Raithe
12-10-2007, 03:33 PM
The best way to have player-created content would be to include the functionality within the game itself, not in an outside development kit. Add areas designed specifically with player contributions in mind, and add game mechanics that allow a subscribing player to populate several different pre-made dungeons or castles with already balanced encounters of different types. Sort of like MMO housing, but for the mobs...

Jomee
12-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Well you obviously didn't read the whole post, or missed the part where I mention that players don't gain experience or loot from player created adventures. I'm sitting here, laughing my ass off reading people's complaints about legal issues and whatnot; there is nothing you people won't whine about.

I would like to see some way of giving the developers the bones of a quest and they could fill in the rest.

GrayOldDruid
12-10-2007, 03:56 PM
/signed

User-created content would be awesome. I would love to add some dungeons and story lines... Even making our own characters the quest giver/door to the quest.

after reading all the responses -

If you don't want to play user-content - don't. Some people would run the quests just for something different to do.

If it would be no xp, no loot, make it be no debt, no damage as well.

User-content has been a staple of PC games for a Looong time.

Yes, IF it gave XP, Loot, etc, there would need to be Auto-tables included for that. Normal Loot tables used instead of user-created loot. Normal XP tables instead of user-xp given. There are formulas in place already for this. The user designs the story and the placement of the traps, etc.

Largo_Kyber
12-10-2007, 04:35 PM
Considering that I don't think Turbine will ever give us access to create user created content, I suggest that they look into using random encounter tables.

IMO this would bring the DDO experience more in line with DND PNP.

I enter a quest on normal. The random encounter tables roll when the quest is started. For each encounter in the quest, a random encounter table is rolled.

The bosses and the main quest objectives could remain the same, but at least the random spawns would mean that you do not know what is around the next corner. Is it just a bunch of skeles or is it a group of Mind Flayers that is laying in wait?

On Elite, the encounter table would be much more difficult with a greater possibility of large numbers of enemies or rare encounters.

This would take re-engineering the quests as I don't believe that they are designed to handle random spawns but in hindsight this is the one feature that i seem to miss more than anything else when playing DDO as compared to DND.

DDO= I know what I face, I know where and when they will attack. I've memorized every quest and I know when to switch weapons and what tactics to use.

DND= Making decision on the fly, not knowing that there's another mob anound the corner, spotaneous decisions that feel much more rewarding

Hence
12-10-2007, 04:40 PM
Heres my idea on the subject:
Allow us to create Maps, and have the real Developers populate the maps as they see fit. Give them loot, mobs, xp, and a story.
Let people play test them on Risia.

Or allow us to create a map, populate it with monsters, but leave the XP/Loot up to the Devs.

BTW, loot and EXP are fine in user generated content as long as it was moderated. But no favor should be given for these quests.
We could allow the players to be the QA on Risia. And have contests and voting play a roll in the decisions.

I don't know though, it would really be a pain in the butt unless the Dev's actually had the time. Just creating cool maps and dungeon layouts would fun though, I have great ideas about dungeon layouts that I would love to see even if the story, mobs, loot, and xp were done by the Dev's instead.

TWISTED.IMP
12-10-2007, 04:40 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past but I would like to see some randomizing in the current quest. Going into a quest not knowing what to expect is what everyone craves. You might know the map and where to go but you don't know what your up against. I'm not a dev and don't know how difficult it would be but it would bring some freshness to the game.

If they had some kind of build modules that you could download and use to create your ideas, then send into the devs and, if approved, let them put it together it may work.

Name the quest after the creator. Having your name on a quest you crated and approved by the devs for everyone to enjoy would be a pretty cool achievement.

just some ideas

MysticTheurge
12-10-2007, 05:11 PM
The devs definitely have a problem coming up with quality quest ideas.

Really? Cause DDO seems to have the best variety in quality quests of just about any MMO I've played (which granted isn't all of them).

But I mean compared to CoX which literally follows the pattern you describe [<villian group> has <done terrible thing>! You better go to the <tileset/area> to stop them!], DDO's quests are amazing.

Yeah, we have a few that get a little repetitive (I'm looking at you necropolis) but even those, to a degree, are more varied that some games I've played. LotD II for instance has four very different quests, with some consistent elements, followed by a fairly innovative capstone quest. It's got a nice story line which, when viewed as part of a longer chain, becomes even more interesting the more you know about it.

And that's one quest series amidst dozens, each quite different from most of the others. Just off the top of my head:

Baudry Cartamon's quests --> Hiding in Plain Sight (which does an amazing job of taking you back through low-level maps)
Waterworks --> Shan-to-kor (which I hope we'll see more of, honestly)
Assault on Splinterskull --> branches into Spawn of Whisperdoom and Cabal for One
Necropolis
Delera's --> Thrall of the Necromancer
The Sorrowdusk Isle quests
The Vault of Night Series
The Twilight Forge Series
Basically all the desert quests
Tempest Spine --> Stormreaver
Invaders (which, like HiPS, plays with what you know about the area from lower levels)

There are some great storylines in DDO that make for some amazing quests.

Now, obviously some tilesets get repeated. And there are certain tropes of the fantasy genre that you're just not going to avoid (i.e. Retrieve X for me, kill Y for me). But DDO has some truly varied plots, where many other games just don't.

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 05:41 PM
*snip*

And that's one quest series amidst dozens, each quite different from most of the others. Just off the top of my head:

Baudry Cartamon's quests --> Hiding in Plain Sight (which does an amazing job of taking you back through low-level maps)
Waterworks --> Shan-to-kor (which I hope we'll see more of, honestly)
Assault on Splinterskull --> branches into Spawn of Whisperdoom and Cabal for One
Necropolis
Delera's --> Thrall of the Necromancer
The Sorrowdusk Isle quests
The Vault of Night Series
The Twilight Forge Series
Basically all the desert quests
Tempest Spine --> Stormreaver
Invaders (which, like HiPS, plays with what you know about the area from lower levels)

There are some great storylines in DDO that make for some amazing quests.



Great post MT. What I quoted struck me. I look at that list of Quests and how they intertwine and the story leads you to the next and I immediately think about playing PnP in some friends basement, empty pizza boxes and soda cans scattered about, and friends gathered around a table. We all can remember going on an adventure that would last a few modules, Slavers & Giant Series (shows age), Ravenloft for example. And it just hit me, same thing we are doing now, just not taking so long or as much fast food to do it...

Guess no point to my post, just happy to see these grand adventures that remind me of PnP days past...

Hafeal
12-10-2007, 06:01 PM
I see discussion, not whining.

OK, beyond a new quest to run, that you have to DL if you don't have it, and has not had proper QA, what is the 'point'?

Ok, yea, have a new Quest to run. No XP? No loot?

Really think that would float? Sure, people would run it once or twice - if that if they knew ahead that there is no XP/Loot.

Don't get me wrong, I like end user made content - in the right game/setting. Unfortunatly DDO is not the right game for that...

Hmmm ... I have not seen one criticism of user-made content which could not be reasonably overcome.

As for no loot or xp to test, ok, we have Risia now - use that. Nothing there truly "counts" anyway. In fact, it might just pick-up Risia numbers. I would finally download and use Risia if I knew MT had put a dungeon on it for testing. :p

Hendrik
12-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Hmmm ... I have not seen one criticism of user-made content which could not be reasonably overcome.

As for no loot or xp to test, ok, we have Risia now - use that. Nothing there truly "counts" anyway. In fact, it might just pick-up Risia numbers. I would finally download and use Risia if I knew MT had put a dungeon on it for testing. :p

I think your on to something tmdag. IF player content IS feasible, Risia would be the perfect place to host it!


Hehe. No argument there! I'd even check out something Dane put up!

:p