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View Full Version : A suggestion to make trips, sunders, stuns, etc. a little more useful



Missing_Minds
12-06-2007, 03:22 PM
My thought, and I don't know how hard this would be to change, is that..

trip, improved trip, sunder, improved sunder, stunning blow, and even cleave and great cleave

should not have a timer activate UNLESS the associated dice roll actually happens. You could miss completely, hit and they save, or hit and they fail, just so long as the dice roll actually happens.

Why would a character attempt to trip the air? They would attempt to trip a creature they were facing.
How many times are we chasing something only to have nothing happen on these special attacks, yet we are penalized to wait on the timers to be reset.

I can not see how this change could be combat breaking at all and would probably make it more fun.

Even Paladin's Smiting would benefit from this. Why would a paldin attempt to smite the air?


Now, current coding may mean that the timer is triggered due to client side mechanics. This is fine, but the server should be able to send back data stating that "x" did confirm or "x" did not confirm to reset the timer on the client or let it continue to run. Obviously the server has a counter setup of how often attacks can happen because of Codog's testing with a race condition with shooting stuff. I would be surprised if the server does not also keep timers for trip, stunning blow, etc.

Now, there may be those that think keeping the timers is better, after all the AI moves the mobs about more to make us use more tactics. Wouldn't the waisted timer be indicative of the mob just moving out of the way of an attack? Yes, I agree completely with that assessment. That is a realistic assement of what could/did happen. However, also realistic and follows PnP rules is the fact that I should be able to attempt to trip every single attack if I so wanted. However, due to house ruling we can not, so I am just asking for the chance to actually trip the target vs. wasting the attempt.

After all, a hob is door blocked and I'm 15 feet away from the blockers. How is it that I'm the one tripped? The only reasons why I post that line is for people who will complain about balance of melee. The second reason I stated this is because trips like this and 50' reach attacks still annoy the crude out of me.

Beherit_Baphomar
12-06-2007, 03:59 PM
Well,

Umm...yer not attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the air...yer attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the
baddies.

Example; My cat was recently caught drinking from my glass of milk, I attempted to stun her with a baseball bat
to the head, she was way too fast for me...she knew it was coming after several past incidents...I still tried to
stun her, but I missed, hence I could not try again for several seconds afterwards...at which point I smote her.
The smite did land.

Yer trying to hit baddies, or pain in the arse cats, but missing....yer still trying.

mgoldb2
12-06-2007, 04:24 PM
Well,

Umm...yer not attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the air...yer attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the
baddies.

Example; My cat was recently caught drinking from my glass of milk, I attempted to stun her with a baseball bat
to the head, she was way too fast for me...she knew it was coming after several past incidents...I still tried to
stun her, but I missed, hence I could not try again for several seconds afterwards...at which point I smote her.
The smite did land.

Yer trying to hit baddies, or pain in the arse cats, but missing....yer still trying.

It can also be claim that what AC suppose to be repersenting. It goes back to the augment should missing be base on twitch ability or how it represented in PnP or both. Truthfully I am fine with how it is now but it would help people that not so good at timing such attacks.

Beherit_Baphomar
12-06-2007, 04:45 PM
Not sure what my cats AC is.

She has a high DEX tho.

Ildaron
12-06-2007, 04:49 PM
I know this because I have two cats.

Natural AC +4
26 dex.

If you dress your cats they get padded armor bonus. It is made of special material however so it does not cap their dex.

Lorien_the_First_One
12-06-2007, 05:09 PM
If you dress your cats they get padded armor bonus. It is made of special material however so it does not cap their dex.

But all the other cats will make fun of them and they will pee in your food when you aren't at home for revenge.

Tanka
12-06-2007, 09:55 PM
But all the other cats will make fun of them and they will pee in your food when you aren't at home for revenge.
And, honestly, is +1 AC even worth that?

MysticTheurge
12-06-2007, 10:01 PM
And, honestly, is +1 AC even worth that?

And more often than not, you're actually reducing their AC because of the Max Dex.

(I think GH's dex numbers are kind of on the low end.)

DNDJESS
12-06-2007, 10:35 PM
Well,

Umm...yer not attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the air...yer attempting to smite/trip/sunder/cleave the
baddies.

Example; My cat was recently caught drinking from my glass of milk, I attempted to stun her with a baseball bat
to the head, she was way too fast for me...she knew it was coming after several past incidents...I still tried to
stun her, but I missed, hence I could not try again for several seconds afterwards...at which point I smote her.
The smite did land.

Yer trying to hit baddies, or pain in the arse cats, but missing....yer still trying.


The difference between your example and the OP's is that you did get a die roll on your stun attempt - you just plain missed (perhaps it's time to upgrade to a +2 louisville slugger of greater animal bane?) The OP was never given said die roll. A more accurate comparison would be if you had tried to stun the kitty and the bat never left your shoulder, yet you still expended the energy as though you swung.

Missing_Minds
12-10-2007, 08:52 AM
You know.. I never thought I'd have a thread derailed by a kitty. *chuckles*

but BB, Jess got it correct.

GuitarHero
12-10-2007, 10:11 AM
And more often than not, you're actually reducing their AC because of the Max Dex.

(I think GH's dex numbers are kind of on the low end.)

weren't my numbers, (though he does bear a striking resemblance) because the only thing i know about cats is how many ways there are to skin them...