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View Full Version : Total Respec - A Truely Fair Method



Dworkin_of_Amber
12-06-2007, 11:11 AM
I have read many of the other posts recently discussing Total Respecs, and have given a good deal of thought to this idea. After talking with a Guildmate of mine, I think we came up with a solution that will solve most of the issues discussed in the other threads. I am not espousing the Pro vs. Con of the Total Respec (but personally, I think it should be available as a Premium Service, for say $10-$20 per Respec)

The "Fair" way to complete a DDO Respec.

Guidelines
#1) The Total Respec should be a DDO Premium Service. $10 or $20 USD to purchase.
#2) The Total Respec should have a 3-month timer per character.
#3) The Total Respec will allow conversion of a 28-point character to a 32-point character.
#4) The Total Respec will NOT allow changing of Name, Race or Appearance.
#5) The Total Respec will leave Favor, Items, and XP Intact.

Total Respec Process
1) The Player logs into the DDO Premium Services Website, and orders a "Total Repec" for their specific character.
2) Within 24-hours, the character is delivered a "Total Respec Token", which goes into his inventory, as a Bound Item.
3) If this item is in your inventory, you can type /FullRespec to initiate the Respec System.
4) Your character is logged out, and the game examines your character, and strips all eaten Tomes off, and recreates each of these Tomes, as Bound Tomes, in that Character's Inventory.
4a) OPTIONAL: +1 Tomes are set with NO ML. +2 Tomes are set with ML9, +3 Tomes are set with ML12
5) You are taken to the Class & Alignment Selection Page, then the Stat Point Page of the CharGen for your character, with 32-points available for all non-Drow
6) You set your Stats, Skill Points, then Feats. Click Finish
7) You appear, where you logged out, with your previously eaten Tome back in your inventory (as Bound Tomes) and a Level 1, but with all of your previous XP.
8) You eat your tomes, and run off to your trainers to level back up to wherever you were.

* The Optional 4a is an attempt to balance the fact that +2 Tomes are almost always Bound Raid Loot, and +3 Tomes are always Bound Raid Loot. This will further "Balance" Tome re-application. ML9 is usually a minimum for running the Dragon and the Titan, and ML12 for Stormreaver and Abbot. But this can be left out.

The key to this method is the "Tome Stripping" We know that Turbine tracks Tomes (Inherent Bonus), at the very least to the highest-level Tome you have eaten. By "Stripping" your Tomes, and recreating them in your inventory, you prevent any Tome usage from affecting Character Generation and initial Feats & Skills, helping to preserve the balance of the characters. Recreating them as Bound Tomes in your inventory will allow you to keep the benefit of all your Tomes, but not to sell or trade them. Keeping your XP, Items, and Favor, means you have to take a few minutes to run around and re-level up to whatever level you were previously, but does not impose any unnecessary penalty on the character (Consider the Penalty that it is ONLY available as a Premium Service, and you had to pay $$$ for that).

Now, if Turbine does have a way to track what Tomes you ate and at what level, then simply set a ML on each Tome to the Level the Tome was previously eaten at. This may be a problem if you ate a +1 and a +2 Tome in the same stat... but if they can track it, then you get both a +1 and a +2. Otherwise, you get a +2.

One item of contention may be 4a - Setting the Tomes to have a ML. This is an attempt to prevent +2 or +3 Tomes from unfairly adding to INT for skill points (As rolling an Odd INT and taking a Tome @ 1 to get more skill points is a common practice, we don't want to lock that out), or qualifying for feats too early. I chose L9 & L12 because +2 Tomes start appearing as Raid Loot in the Dragon (L10 quest) and the Titan (L12 Quest), but most players start running the Dragon around Level 9, and the Marilith & Stormreaver around Level 12. Yes, I know many do it earlier, or later, but I think that is a "Fair" middle-ground level selection. It is also chosen as L9 & L12 are the "Standard Feat" levels, and this would prevent gaining access to Feats that you would not have been able to access normally. Additionally, +2 Tomes are obtained through 1750 Favor with is usually obtained WELL after Level 9, so I think that helps to offset this.

A 3-month timer will keep the Respeccing to a "Sane" amount, and setting it as a Premium Service will make Turbine a little $$, and make sure that players who Respec do so with greater care.

Isssssa
12-06-2007, 11:23 AM
#4) The Total Respec will NOT allow changing of Race, Class, or Appearance.


What about multiclasses who want to respece cause they don't like one of the classes they took. Are they out of luck under your plan?

Nefahrin
12-06-2007, 11:25 AM
Why not your appearance?
I think we should be able to change our appearance every few weeks if we want.
Ever hear of a haircut? What if I want to grow out that mohawk that stopped be funny on day 3?

:P

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-06-2007, 11:27 AM
That was a typo on my part. Classes can be freely re-chosen.

And before someone starts the arguement about respeccing a Sorc into a Barb and they have no idea how to play a Barb, or something along those lines, I say let them... they would be pretty unintelligent to do that in the first place, and just because someone has leveled a character to 14 and capped him, does NOT mean that they know how to play them. I have joined too many PuG's recently with L14s or players with multiple 14s who still do not know how to play the game, or their class.

Hence
12-06-2007, 11:28 AM
I think it is a great idea.

As per the multiclass: if the character starts at level 1 with all his experience points, he can then go level up any way he sees fit.
What the OP meant was you cannot change your starting Race/Class ect. But you may go level up into a multiclass or anything else you want.

Superb... I would pay up to $20 for this service.

Cashiry
12-06-2007, 11:32 AM
/signed

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-06-2007, 11:33 AM
I think it is a great idea.

As per the multiclass: if the character starts at level 1 with all his experience points, he can then go level up any way he sees fit.
What the OP meant was you cannot change your starting Race/Class ect. But you may go level up into a multiclass or anything else you want.

Superb... I would pay up to $20 for this service.

No, let me clarify... (and I edited my post to clarify this as well). I am saying you go back and choose your starting class all over, then stats, then feats.

As for Appearance, I am sure they could allow you to change that too... but I was trying to keep it simple.

Fallout
12-06-2007, 11:34 AM
Alot of good points, for the most part I agree.

But like others pointed out, doesn't address class.
Also I don't agree with tome restriction. +2 tomes are available unbounded. And you get potentially get +3 tomes at a much lower level with current system.

woodspider
12-06-2007, 11:36 AM
This could work, although I think +2 tomes should not kick in till level 12 and +3 till level 14.

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-06-2007, 11:41 AM
Alot of good points, for the most part I agree.

But like others pointed out, doesn't address class.
Also I don't agree with tome restriction. +2 tomes are available unbounded. And you get potentially get +3 tomes at a much lower level with current system.

I clarified my post... Classes can be freely re-chosen.

As for the Tomes, that's why I listed it as a Optional Item... I was trying to find a balance between things, and it is diffucult. If you allow re-eating of up to +3 Tomes immediately, then you can get too many Skill Points and qualify for Feats too early. If you put a ML on them, everyone will argue over when they got their specific Tomes, and such... but a balance point has to be made.

Look at it this way, it is very common on the Forums to plan a new character with multiple +1 Tomes at Level 1. Yes, I know that Unbound +2 Tomes exist and drop, but so very rarely that it really can't be counted. So, going on the assumption that Turbine doesn't know when you ate your tomes, then wouldn't putting some type of REASONABLE level restriction on them only be fair? I mean, you will be Level 14 again in 20 minutes after you do this, so you respec, eat your +1 Tomes, Level Up a few times, eat your +2s, level up, eat your +3's. The only thing this does is try to prevent abuse.

Look at it this way. You originally rolled with 13 Dex to take Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack. You have eaten a +3 DEX Tome. Should you be allowed to Respec to 10 Dex, and eat a +3 Tome @ Level 1, and take Dodge @ Level 2 with a Fighter Bonus Feat? I think that has the potential to create an unfair system. No matter what ML you set the Tomes at, someone will complain, but let's be fair and rational about it. MOST players start Raiding around Level 9 for the Dragon/Titan, and Level 12 for SR. Some will be earlier, some later, but I really think that is a fair middle-ground.

Dane_McArdy
12-06-2007, 11:45 AM
I'm not sure how this is any different then any other suggestion out there. Save what, can't change race?

Laith
12-06-2007, 11:49 AM
I'm not sure how this is any different then any other suggestion out there. Save what, can't change race?
i will agree that i'm uncertain as to why everyone is suggesting their "perfect method". Many people want respecs, but really have no CLUE how turbine could go about doing it.

How about making suggestions before claiming that your method is better than all the other ones? Such claims really stifle constructive criticism.

Fallout
12-06-2007, 12:07 PM
Look at it this way, it is very common on the Forums to plan a new character with multiple +1 Tomes at Level 1. Yes, I know that Unbound +2 Tomes exist and drop, but so very rarely that it really can't be counted.

Its rare, but you can't just discount it. Now with +2 tomes dropping at higher level quests again (not just raid), its more readily available. Some people trade for +2 int tomes just for creating a new character. Unless Turbine keeps track when you eat the tomes, then this system, you potentially can lose skill points. What if you got a +2 int tome and apply to your new char back in the days? Then in your system, if he decides to respec, he can't eat it till L9. He lost alot of skill points.

Cashiry
12-07-2007, 08:06 AM
In affect this could benefiet the completeists out there as well who like to have all their quests complete. .i.e. all those 28pt charchters who never had the chance to go through those zones.

See your trainer, lvl to 3
Go into Water works/ceruellian hills do slayer/explorer/rare
When finished go see your trainer lvl to 6
Hit the slayer zones that would affect these levels
Keep doing same till they are complete.

Just an idea..

KaKa
12-07-2007, 08:12 AM
Charging money is never fair.

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-07-2007, 08:48 AM
I don't think that is true. Turbine has already introduced Premium Services, including Character Rename, and Server moves, so I would think that a Character Respec would properly fall under that. PnPP doesn't have a "full respec" option, but the Spell and Feat swaps do have some precedence in PnP, so they are implemented in-game. Given that a Full Respec is more of a "MMO" thing, than a D&D Thing, why not implement it as a Premium Service. It will generate a little more $$ for Turbine, and also make sure that those who use the service really want/need the service, and not just because "I mis-spent one Skill Point, and I want my Skill Points to look perfect!" or some such nonsense.

Some of the other suggestions have been a Raid Loot Item (which means more Grinding and less chance to get those rare "GOOD" Raid Loot Items - aka Sword of Shadows!)... While I'm not against it, I think that it is unnecessary to add yet another item to the game with limited usefulness (Vicious Weapons, of Deception items, Dragonshards, Gems, Collectibles, Splint Mail, Half-Plate, Potions of Paralysis Removal, etc.)

MysticTheurge
12-07-2007, 09:36 AM
That was a typo on my part. Classes can be freely re-chosen.

I'm absolutely not interested in seeing a system like this. There's just no justification for why you should be able to retain all the benefits of one character and make, essentially, a whole different character out of it.

Feat respec, fine.
Enhancement respec, fine.
Skill respec, fine.
Ability score respec, fine.

Class respec, no.
Race respec, no.

If you want to change those things, make a new character.

(With, of course, my usual caveat that in-game GMs should be granted the ability to de-level people who have leveled within the last 48 hours. This would solve the "omg I clicked on the wrong trainer and now I'm a Sorcerer 8/Wizard 1" problems.)

krud
12-07-2007, 10:03 AM
I'm with MT. However, If a total respec is really deemed necessary the OPs proposal (including ML tome restrictions) is how I would like to see it done. Also, add ML for all tomes (+1 ML1, +2 ML8, +3ML14, bound tomes will be 2 levels less).

Kinda like being a teacher and having the principal ask you if you want to have some unruly kids added to your class. Of course not, but if he says "well, that's too bad because here they are", I would want to add some input as how to deal with them.

Mercules
12-07-2007, 10:10 AM
I'm absolutely not interested in seeing a system like this. There's just no justification for why you should be able to retain all the benefits of one character and make, essentially, a whole different character out of it.

Feat respec, fine.
Enhancement respec, fine.
Skill respec, fine.
Ability score respec, fine.

Class respec, no.
Race respec, no.

If you want to change those things, make a new character.

(With, of course, my usual caveat that in-game GMs should be granted the ability to de-level people who have leveled within the last 48 hours. This would solve the "omg I clicked on the wrong trainer and now I'm a Sorcerer 8/Wizard 1" problems.)

And this is the view that I take as well.

I know MT. We should start 7 or 8 threads on how not to do Respecing so that maybe the older threads with counter arguments that refute our claims might scroll off the first screen where the Devs are less likely to read them thus forcing anyone who doesn't agree with us to repost the same arguments over and over.

Fallout
12-07-2007, 10:11 AM
I'm with MT. However, If a total respec is really deemed necessary the OPs proposal (including ML tome restrictions) is how I would like to see it done. Also, add ML for all tomes (+1 ML1, +2 ML8, +3ML14, bound tomes will be 2 levels less).


If you add ML to tomes, then you need to add ML to all current tomes. And what about tomes already eaten? Tomes are unbound currently, and they should be unbound if there's a respec. And like I stated before, if someone eats an unbound +2 Int tome at L1, then a ML 8 restriction would cause the person to lose skill points if he respecs.

Fallout
12-07-2007, 10:15 AM
And this is the view that I take as well.

I know MT. We should start 7 or 8 threads on how not to do Respecing so that maybe the older threads with counter arguments that refute our claims might scroll off the first screen where the Devs are less likely to read them thus forcing anyone who doesn't agree with us to repost the same arguments over and over.

You could. But the fact of the matter is, alot of people are against it. But also there is alot of people are for it.

So the question is, is it worth it for Turbine to investigate and implement a system. And if people would use it as premium service.

MysticTheurge
12-07-2007, 10:15 AM
you need to add ML to all current tomes.

Yes.

krud
12-07-2007, 10:32 AM
If you add ML to tomes, then you need to add ML to all current tomes.
No you don't, just like those +2 tomes some people got early on, but people who joined up later didn't.

And what about tomes already eaten? Tomes are unbound currently, and they should be unbound if there's a respec. And like I stated before, if someone eats an unbound +2 Int tome at L1, then a ML 8 restriction would cause the person to lose skill points if he respecs.

What about someone who ate that +2 tome at 14 and now respecs? woohoo more skill points! If that is no big deal then the loss of a few should be no big deal either. The MLs chosen are a good middle ground. You keep saying that there are safe guards to respecs, but you consistently argue against almost all of them.

Fallout
12-07-2007, 10:42 AM
What about someone who ate that +2 tome at 14 and now respecs? woohoo more skill points! If that is no big deal then the loss of a few should be no big deal either. The MLs chosen are a good middle ground. You keep saying that there are safe guards to respecs, but you consistently argue against almost all of them.

>If that is no big deal then the loss of a few should be no big deal either.

Feel free to eat your tome at L14 if you feel like losing skill points if you decide to use the respec feature. No one's stopping you.
And indeed if people gain a couple of skill points, how is it going to cripple the game? My char will get some more in jump and maybe tumble. Oh yeah, I can solo Velah now...

>there are safe guards to respecs, but you consistently argue against almost all of them

I argue against favor loss, because that is one of the most boring grinds/time sink ever.

krud
12-07-2007, 11:01 AM
>If that is no big deal then the loss of a few should be no big deal either.

Feel free to eat your tome at L14 if you feel like losing skill points if you decide to use the respec feature. No one's stopping you.
And indeed if people gain a couple of skill points, how is it going to cripple the game? My char will get some more in jump and maybe tumble. Oh yeah, I can solo Velah now...

>there are safe guards to respecs, but you consistently argue against almost all of them

I argue against favor loss, because that is one of the most boring grinds/time sink ever.

"I, me, my character..." just because you have no use for skill points does not mean they are a trivial aspect of the game. Think Batman and all its incarnations. There is a build which is meant to maximize abilities and skills with as little INT investment as possible. Look how popular it became. It is not hard to see how you can respec into a build only achievable thru respec. "The new respec build", able to find and disable 99% of traps, pick all locks, cast resurrect scrolls, get STWF and maintain a high AC and HP, and intimidate like mad ...but the only way to do so is to respec once you get that bound +3 int tome.

Again, you keep using other peoples problems in order to get maximum gain for yourself.

Fallout
12-07-2007, 11:29 AM
Think Batman and all its incarnations.

Again, you keep using other peoples problems in order to get maximum gain for yourself.

>Think Batman and all its incarnations.

Whos fault is it? The current system is design a way that 1 or 2 levels of rogue can pretty much do a full class of rogue can do.

>Again, you keep using other peoples problems in order to get maximum gain for yourself

I use issues to illustrate a point. I don't play a rogue or wiz. Its not going to make a big difference for me if I gain a couple of extra points. But whats unfair is losing skill points if setting ML on tomes. Also try to original thoughts and arguements instead of piggy backing MT and Dane's arguements.

krud
12-07-2007, 12:14 PM
>Think Batman and all its incarnations.

Whos fault is it? The current system is design a way that 1 or 2 levels of rogue can pretty much do a full class of rogue can do.

>Again, you keep using other peoples problems in order to get maximum gain for yourself

I use issues to illustrate a point. I don't play a rogue or wiz. Its not going to make a big difference for me if I gain a couple of extra points. But whats unfair is losing skill points if setting ML on tomes. Also try to original thoughts and arguements instead of piggy backing MT and Dane's arguements.

Most of the issues you present to illustrate your point can be resolved without a total respec. I don't recall either MT or Dane bringing up the issue of using respec to gain additional skill points. *correction* i don't think either of those two argued anything against skill point abuse. I'm not complaining that the batman build is possible or that people make it. My concern is being able to do more with a respec than is otherwise possible. It's called a safeguard. Although you cannot see the possibilities for gain, they do exist, and people will take advantage of them.

the number of people who want to change some skill or attribute is probably large ...the amount of those who want a total respec is smaller ...the amount of those who ate a +2 Int tome at lvl1 is even smaller.

What is so wrong with the middle ground? just so the one or two people who ate a +2 int tome at lvl1, and also desire a total respec instead of a partial one can save a few skill points? You see, if there are so many people out there in that particular situation that need a total respec that are so concerned about those "few" skill points, then it follows that there are just as many, if not more, who will use whatever means available to eak out every possible advantage one could gain through a respec.

The OP listed +2 tomes at ML9. I would put it at ML8 (with bound tomes being ML6). So at respec you get a ML6 +2 tome. With a ML6 it's minus 5 skill points for a select few, vs +13-26 for many who respec with an int tome and no ML.

llevenbaxx
12-07-2007, 12:28 PM
Feat respec, fine.
Enhancement respec, fine.
Skill respec, fine.
Ability score respec, fine.

Class respec, no.
Race respec, no.

If you want to change those things, make a new character.

(With, of course, my usual caveat that in-game GMs should be granted the ability to de-level people who have leveled within the last 48 hours. This would solve the "omg I clicked on the wrong trainer and now I'm a Sorcerer 8/Wizard 1" problems.)

I like this too. I could easily see noone ever giving up another piece of raid loot on the off chance you might want to respec you ftr as a wizard for w/e reason. That should definitely be a whole new character. If you make a booboo like going to the wrong trainer you can still fix it though.

Other than that I kinda like the whole process. Including the charge.

Borror0
12-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Class respec, no.
Race respec, no.

IMO, the purpose of a respect is to allow you to adapt to changes made to the game.

Remember that Human rogue that loved Human Versitility?
Remember when they changed Aura of Good base from 2 to 1?
Remember the change they made to Halfling luck?

There are a few examples of changes made to a race or class that gives you a reason to start over, but you don't because of the loos of bound gear.

Fallout
12-07-2007, 12:38 PM
Most of the issues you present to illustrate your point can be resolved without a total respec.

What is so wrong with the middle ground?



And like I said before I am for skill/attrib/32 pt retro favor.

>What is so wrong with the middle ground?

If they change ALL tomes to have ML, then thats fair. But ML only for respec purposes, then I'm against it.

krud
12-07-2007, 12:52 PM
If they change ALL tomes to have ML, then thats fair.

that is the idea.

SneakThief
12-07-2007, 12:59 PM
I still think:

Leave the tomes, favor, and gear. We worked hard for those :D
(I'd also be "ok" with favor dropping one level: Elite to Hard, Hard to normal, etc).

Set me back to 0 XP.

Make us work it up from there.

Or better, let us choose how many levels we want dropped.

But in either case, make us work the character up from that point.

Paying? hmmmmmmmm Rather not, but maybe.

Appearance? I always find it odd in a town that large with that many shops, there isnt a barber.

JMO...

Stonewall
12-07-2007, 01:00 PM
I have read many of the other posts recently discussing Total Respecs, and have given a good deal of thought to this idea. After talking with a Guildmate of mine, I think we came up with a solution that will solve most of the issues discussed in the other threads. I am not espousing the Pro vs. Con of the Total Respec (but personally, I think it should be available as a Premium Service, for say $10-$20 per Respec)

The "Fair" way to complete a DDO Respec.

Guidelines
#1) The Total Respec should be a DDO Premium Service. $10 or $20 USD to purchase.
#2) The Total Respec should have a 3-month timer per character.
#3) The Total Respec will allow conversion of a 28-point character to a 32-point character.
#4) The Total Respec will NOT allow changing of Name, Race or Appearance.
#5) The Total Respec will leave Favor, Items, and XP Intact.

Total Respec Process
1) The Player logs into the DDO Premium Services Website, and orders a "Total Repec" for their specific character.
2) Within 24-hours, the character is delivered a "Total Respec Token", which goes into his inventory, as a Bound Item.
3) If this item is in your inventory, you can type /FullRespec to initiate the Respec System.
4) Your character is logged out, and the game examines your character, and strips all eaten Tomes off, and recreates each of these Tomes, as Bound Tomes, in that Character's Inventory.
4a) OPTIONAL: +1 Tomes are set with NO ML. +2 Tomes are set with ML9, +3 Tomes are set with ML12
5) You are taken to the Class & Alignment Selection Page, then the Stat Point Page of the CharGen for your character, with 32-points available for all non-Drow
6) You set your Stats, Skill Points, then Feats. Click Finish
7) You appear, where you logged out, with your previously eaten Tome back in your inventory (as Bound Tomes) and a Level 1, but with all of your previous XP.
8) You eat your tomes, and run off to your trainers to level back up to wherever you were.

* The Optional 4a is an attempt to balance the fact that +2 Tomes are almost always Bound Raid Loot, and +3 Tomes are always Bound Raid Loot. This will further "Balance" Tome re-application. ML9 is usually a minimum for running the Dragon and the Titan, and ML12 for Stormreaver and Abbot. But this can be left out.

The key to this method is the "Tome Stripping" We know that Turbine tracks Tomes (Inherent Bonus), at the very least to the highest-level Tome you have eaten. By "Stripping" your Tomes, and recreating them in your inventory, you prevent any Tome usage from affecting Character Generation and initial Feats & Skills, helping to preserve the balance of the characters. Recreating them as Bound Tomes in your inventory will allow you to keep the benefit of all your Tomes, but not to sell or trade them. Keeping your XP, Items, and Favor, means you have to take a few minutes to run around and re-level up to whatever level you were previously, but does not impose any unnecessary penalty on the character (Consider the Penalty that it is ONLY available as a Premium Service, and you had to pay $$$ for that).

Now, if Turbine does have a way to track what Tomes you ate and at what level, then simply set a ML on each Tome to the Level the Tome was previously eaten at. This may be a problem if you ate a +1 and a +2 Tome in the same stat... but if they can track it, then you get both a +1 and a +2. Otherwise, you get a +2.

One item of contention may be 4a - Setting the Tomes to have a ML. This is an attempt to prevent +2 or +3 Tomes from unfairly adding to INT for skill points (As rolling an Odd INT and taking a Tome @ 1 to get more skill points is a common practice, we don't want to lock that out), or qualifying for feats too early. I chose L9 & L12 because +2 Tomes start appearing as Raid Loot in the Dragon (L10 quest) and the Titan (L12 Quest), but most players start running the Dragon around Level 9, and the Marilith & Stormreaver around Level 12. Yes, I know many do it earlier, or later, but I think that is a "Fair" middle-ground level selection. It is also chosen as L9 & L12 are the "Standard Feat" levels, and this would prevent gaining access to Feats that you would not have been able to access normally. Additionally, +2 Tomes are obtained through 1750 Favor with is usually obtained WELL after Level 9, so I think that helps to offset this.

A 3-month timer will keep the Respeccing to a "Sane" amount, and setting it as a Premium Service will make Turbine a little $$, and make sure that players who Respec do so with greater care.

I think it would be a great idea, except for charging player extra to do so.

krud
12-07-2007, 01:06 PM
I think it would be a great idea, except for charging player extra to do so.

The only reason I would charge is to make it accessible to those casual players that can never earn the in-game expense of a respec, yet probably could use a respec the most. Levels the field as far as a full respec is concerned.

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-07-2007, 01:10 PM
I think that the Paladin Aura change, Evasion Change/Fix, Batman Nerf, etc, are all very GOOD reasons for allowing a Class Respec. Also, look at how effective Battle Clerics used to be in the game, vs. how they aren't now (I know there are some who still argue for Battle Clerics, but being honest, they are not as powerful and useful as they used to be)... would allowing a 13/1 Battle Cleric respec into 14 Cleric be so bad? I personally don't want to lose my Tomes and Raid Loot and Favor, and that is why I haven't Rerolled him... But I would be ALL for paying $10-$20 to to a complete respec like I listed above.

As for the ML on Tomes, it was a suggestion to try to find a middle ground to not find ways to abuse the system. It isn't really required, and that's why I listed it is an "Optional".... the main point of my original post was the idea of performing a Tome Strip, which I had not seen suggested elsewhere (if someone else posted it, I didn't see it), as a way to make sure a Respec would remain as Fair as possible. And here's the thing, if you are one of the lucky few who had an unbound +2 Tome at character creation, then you would have to think long and hard about the Respec if the ML's were introduced. Personally, I think +2 Tomes having no ML in the game is a bit silly, but that's the decision that Turbine made.

My attempt was to present the most fair and balanced method for everyone. Any system for a Respec will have some flaws (specifically around Tomes and Skill Points or Feats), and I was trying to present what I thought could be the most balanced, overall, way to do it. No matter how they institute a Respec, unless they can figure out when you took your Tomes, there isn't any 100% manner to Respec that will ensure that players don't get more or fewer skill points... but adding "Reasonable" ML's to the +2 and +3 Tomes (ML8/9 for +2, ML12/13/14 for +3) would be the most balanced that I have been able to come up with.

If you don't like the idea, then suggest a more fair method... don't nitpick and complain. Be constructive!

Kalten_of_Amber
12-07-2007, 06:44 PM
After seeing all the flack your catching about this, I'm sure glad you left me as the anonymous "guildmate" that helped you work out the details....ah darn it! ;)

Kalten_of_Amber
12-07-2007, 06:50 PM
IMO, the purpose of a respect is to allow you to adapt to changes made to the game.

Remember that Human rogue that loved Human Versitility?
Remember when they changed Aura of Good base from 2 to 1?
Remember the change they made to Halfling luck?

There are a few examples of changes made to a race or class that gives you a reason to start over, but you don't because of the loos of bound gear.

QFT

For those of us that started this game at the beginning, and have been loyal customers throughout, a lot of us have built and invested enormous amounts of time into their characters. Personally, my main didn't pull his SoS until the 20th run. I do not want to go through that again. This is also a very different game than when a lot of characters were first rolled, and for the most part, I think a lot of characters can no longer do or perform like they either used to/could with the proper setup according to the rules as they stand now. That's what this really boils down to, allowing players to adjuster their characters to the basic gameplay changes made by Turbine for whatever reason. I'm not going to argue whether they were good or bad changes, but they all affected gameplay. I can't say how many times I've been in a PUG and someone mentions a new change, and someone else will immediately say, "Yeah, I wish I would have known about that 6 months ago, I would have never rolled up XX character like I did."

Kargon
12-07-2007, 07:47 PM
As far as Kargon can tell, this are a Stat and Skill Point respec, along with a free full feat respec, which pulls out eaten tomes and binds them. Also, it cost real money.

To Kargon this not a Total Respec, just a Stat and Skill Point respec, as Total imply ability to change classes. If kargon are missing some other feature this respec please point out for Kargon.

p.s. To Kargon a Total Respec resets xp to 0 (no changing from 14 fighter to 14 cleric instantly and getting parties killed), and allows charactermermer to choose new classes as levels up again. Kargon still lean towards resetting favor for a total respec too, but can see argumaments both ways.

p.p.s. Kargon have nothing against this idea (except maybe the real money part), especially if can be implemented much quicker than a full Total Respec, but of course kargon ideally want the WHOLE tasty ham.

Dexxaan
12-07-2007, 08:01 PM
I have continuosly sensed an attitude of "we deserve" from those in favor of the Total Respec. To top it off you have a whole lot of demanding twits who not only want the DEV time for a correction in their builds (Some are justified I agree.....some) but also start jumping and whining when a helpful soul like Dworkin suggests there be a cost attached.

I say, IF (and please don't make this reality Turbine) this ever comes to happen Please make it expensive, or I may just turn my Battle-Cleric into a Bard/Wizard/Barbarian Combo! (And I'll need a new haircut to go with it).

C'mon people lets get Turbine to focus on new content, Races, Classes, Enhancements and Feats.....NOT error correction and FREE?

QuantumFX
12-07-2007, 08:09 PM
Dworkin: So far I like the overall idea. Very well written post. The only drawback is the classic INT tome issue needs to be addressed in your outline. What to do about a character that took the +2 favor tome in INT and later won a +3 INT tome. (The ML's do a fine job but you would want to specify that the +2 tome goes away.)

Invalid_86
12-08-2007, 09:14 AM
If you add ML to tomes, then you need to add ML to all current tomes.

It should have been that way all along, and it should be a relatively high ML.

redoubt
12-08-2007, 10:49 AM
The "Fair" way to complete a DDO Respec.

Guidelines
#1) The Total Respec should be a DDO Premium Service. $10 or $20 USD to purchase. Unsure, as I generally don't like the ability to buy your way to a better character.
#2) The Total Respec should have a 3-month timer per character. Agree
#3) The Total Respec will allow conversion of a 28-point character to a 32-point character. Agree
#4) The Total Respec will NOT allow changing of Name, Race or Appearance. No name Change, No race change, minor appearance change.
#5) The Total Respec will leave Favor, Items, and XP Intact. Keep items. Maybe favor. Zero XP please.



-I think it is fair to re-earn the xp if you are getting to change stuff around.
-Maybe break tomes down into pieces. If someone has a +3 inheirent bonus, put in a bound +1, +2, +3 tome of that stat.
-Some minor class changes, not able to go completely different.

Dworkin_of_Amber
12-08-2007, 01:59 PM
Dworkin: So far I like the overall idea. Very well written post. The only drawback is the classic INT tome issue needs to be addressed in your outline. What to do about a character that took the +2 favor tome in INT and later won a +3 INT tome. (The ML's do a fine job but you would want to specify that the +2 tome goes away.)

Yes, the crux of the issue is really all around INT Tomes. I don't think many people are worried if some people could take Dodge or Power Attack or Combat Expertise few levels earlier than they did/could originally... but yes, the people who ate more than one Tome in the same stat, that does present a problem, that cannot easily be solved. Take the worst-case scenario: Someone eats a +1 INT Tome at Level 1, to bring their INT to an even number, then puts L4 stat into INT, then gets really lucky, and gets a +2 INT Tome around L7, and now is at another even number (hence, more skill points), then gets a +3 INT tome around L12 or so... this is the worst-case scenario for and Full Respec system, as Turbine has stated they don't have any method to track when you ate which tomes (let alone a way to know if you ate multiple of the same stat)... and the random unbound +2 INT Tome present the same problem... while they are VERY rare (unbound +2 Tomes), they do exist.

I think there has to be a balance of practical/feasible vs. covering every possible permutation. That is why I suggested stripping the Tomes, and setting ML's on them... Yes, there are a few people who could end up with a little fewer Skill Points... but there are also many others who could end up with more Skill Points than they currently have (imagine someone who ate a +1 INT Tome at L12... respecs to an Odd INT, and eats that +1 INT Tome at Level 1... they just got +15 skill points... So it can go either way... and some will come out ahead, and some will come out behind... but I still think it is the most fair way to do things, and those who might lose skill points may not want to use the Respec.

There is no perfect answer... but I think this is as close as we can get.

krud
12-08-2007, 04:15 PM
Yes, applying ML to tomes as you described is a good middle ground, some may loose a little, some may gain a little, but no one will ever be able gain more than someone who rerolls a new character. Once +3 tomes start to drop unbound this will no longer be an issue. Breaking up inherent bonuses into +1, +2, +3 tomes is also a good approach.

Riorik
12-08-2007, 04:17 PM
I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception. I even agree with the idea of paying extra for it - of course, that might be a bit selfish since I'm one of those late 30's professionals who look at $20 as a minor expense that doesn't have anything to do with whether I pay my mortgage, car, etc.

I get the point of the Tome ML's - I'd be much more in favor of multiple bound tomes dropping - if you have +3 eaten, then you get three, a +1, +2 & +3 as others have posted. The exact ML doesn't matter much but most of the proposals are in the ballpark - I consider it a minor detail that isn't a dealbreaker by any means.

What I don't get is - why anybody would oppose it at all? It's a bit like - how does this detract from your own gaming experience? There are things and situations where it's good to impose your morals and values on others...when it impacts others...a common example are criminal acts - even exploiting/cheating affects the remaining community because it tends to result in game changes that may or may not impact others. However, on an issue such as this, it doesn't quite meet that threshold of acceptability. It's a bit like explaining to your wife that she's going to do something the way you tell her to and she's going to have to like it. Think about how successful that line usually is...

Also, arguments of sucking up development time just seems false - charging for the service by it's nature promotes the retention of additional programmers to do the work (yeah, it's probably one of the core 3 or 4 programmers doing it, but there might be other loaned help in other areas given to the game...perhaps another customer service GM, who knows...) - AND, as a programmer myself, it strikes me as rather easy to do. The why is simple - most of the mechanics to do this are already in place...they should be able to use existing code (aka, the trainers/levelers) to let the characters level. I'd guess a function/procedure that branches out to build objects (the tomes) - stores them temporarily, access the existing character generation screens & lets you complete it, then adds the tomes to inventory, would be extremely simple to code, test and debug. This is not a huge task.

The real issue is, do they want to do it - because of what they want players to do - it's all about the grind. I'm not trying to be negative or complain, just stating the obvious. It's not really in the best interest of Turbine as a whole to make it easier for you to swap out your entire character rather than make you re-level and re-acquire everything...if only for all the other players...the act of you levelling provides new players somebody to group with.

Nax

dragnmoon
12-08-2007, 08:27 PM
C'mon people lets get Turbine to focus on new content, Races, Classes, Enhancements and Feats.....NOT error correction and FREE?

And this is something I totally agree with and comment on in every Respec Post...

Adding a deeper Respec to the game should be at the buttom of the Devs to do list. They need to focus on New content, adding all the player handbook and eberron races and classes and bring the game to level 20 before they even put any time into a deeper respec system.

Once we get to that point we can see the full impact of the changes to the game so we will have a better idea on what we can do with characters.

krud
12-08-2007, 09:27 PM
And this is something I totally agree with and comment on in every Respec Post...

Adding a deeper Respec to the game should be at the buttom of the Devs to do list. They need to focus on New content, adding all the player handbook and eberron races and classes and bring the game to level 20 before they even put any time into a deeper respec system.

Once we get to that point we can see the full impact of the changes to the game so we will have a better idea on what we can do with characters.

But all those unhappy people with their characters ... <err> ...people with their unhappy characters ...<no wait, it's> ... people unhappy with their characters will have to wait 1 year and 6 more levels in order to become unhappy. That's why some are advocating only skill and attribute respecs. Probably much simpler to implement and will appease a lot of those who are demanding a respec.

Fallout
12-08-2007, 10:39 PM
I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception. I even agree with the idea of paying extra for it - of course, that might be a bit selfish since I'm one of those late 30's professionals who look at $20 as a minor expense that doesn't have anything to do with whether I pay my mortgage, car, etc.

What I don't get is - why anybody would oppose it at all? It's a bit like - how does this detract from your own gaming experience?

Also, arguments of sucking up development time just seems false - charging for the service by it's nature promotes the retention of additional programmers to do the work

The real issue is, do they want to do it - because of what they want players to do - it's all about the grind. I'm not trying to be negative or complain, just stating the obvious.

Nax

Thats pretty summarizes what I think.

>I even agree with the idea of paying extra for it - of course, that might be a bit selfish since I'm one of those late 30's professionals who look at $20 as a minor expense that doesn't have anything to do with whether I pay my mortgage, car, etc.
>Also, arguments of sucking up development time just seems false - charging for the service by it's nature promotes the retention of additional programmers to do the work

Also since alot of PnP players, I bet a good portion of the demographics are older. Which means jobs/family etc less time to play. But more disposable income. They would be more likely to pay a small reasonable fee for services. Why people would pay? Its very evident with the plat farmers. Adding a premium service makes it worth the developer and Turnbine's fee.

>What I don't get is - why anybody would oppose it at all? It's a bit like - how does this detract from your own gaming experience?

The main arguement is twinking. I don't see it more then a problem then it is now. With ML restrictions will negate favor restrictions. People who twink wil continue to do so. Respec won't change things.

>The real issue is, do they want to do it - because of what they want players to do - it's all about the grind. I'm not trying to be negative or complain, just stating the obvious.

Definately. Favor is a grind. If its fun, people would do it for fun.

I think of respec this way. Some games when you beat it, allows you to unlock items, or play through the game again with new items/characters with some advantage. Its like a new start, but not. It adds replay value without all the boring grind. If I remeber the early comments, Turbine didn't want to make this a 'grind' game. But for time sink they did that anyway.

dragnmoon
12-09-2007, 04:59 AM
But all those unhappy people with their characters ... <err> ...people with their unhappy characters ...<no wait, it's> ... people unhappy with their characters will have to wait 1 year and 6 more levels in order to become unhappy. That's why some are advocating only skill and attribute respecs. Probably much simpler to implement and will appease a lot of those who are demanding a respec.

So you would rather they Hold up on adding Content, Classes, races and level 20 to add this? Because that is what it would take. The biggest problem with this game and the largest complaint is lack of content and not all the races and classes added to the game. Them taking time to add a respec that is not really needed at this time (I am not going to go in why it is not really needed again, look at my other posts) in the game would slow that down and Upset a Much larger population then the population that want a respec ASAP.

I am confident that more people want Content, Classes, races and level 20, based on the history of the forums and the complaints we get after every mod.

I am not saying they should not add a deeper Respec in the future, all i am saying they have other priorities that are more important then this.

Aspenor
12-09-2007, 07:52 AM
I'd rather see a full character respec, at no real monetary cost except maybe in PP.

Many people have made mistakes that they'd like to take back, and many skills and abilities have changed from when they were originally used in builds.

Fallout
12-09-2007, 09:21 AM
They seriously need to add new classes, prestige and races before adding new content.

At least with those, you can run existing content. With different combination of new classes/prestige and races, it keep people occupied longer then new content. Please, no more Necro-type quests.

Serpent
12-09-2007, 10:34 AM
As per all these threads including my own, Kargon's response make the most sense out of everyone. Which is scary.

krud
12-09-2007, 10:57 AM
So you would rather they Hold up on adding Content, Classes, races and level 20 to add this? Because that is what it would take. The biggest problem with this game and the largest complaint is lack of content and not all the races and classes added to the game. Them taking time to add a respec that is not really needed at this time (I am not going to go in why it is not really needed again, look at my other posts) in the game would slow that down and Upset a Much larger population then the population that want a respec ASAP.

I am confident that more people want Content, Classes, races and level 20, based on the history of the forums and the complaints we get after every mod.

I am not saying they should not add a deeper Respec in the future, all i am saying they have other priorities that are more important then this.
I must have forgot to add the <sarcasm> icon to my post. My position has always been content first. All i'm saying is if someone wants to see anything regarding any kind of respec anytime soon, the simpler it is to code (such as a skill/attribute respec), the more chance it has to be implemented sooner. Want that full respec? most assuredly you will have to wait till all the other stuff you mentioned gets added first. Want to "fix" just a little bit of your character? It can happen sooner. Which of these do the pro-speccers want? Most will settle for a little bit and sooner, but a few vocal ones keep demanding it all, and demanding it now. They seem to believe that turbine can do both at the same time. wishful thinking.

Lorien_the_First_One
12-09-2007, 11:01 AM
They seriously need to add new classes, prestige and races before adding new content.

At least with those, you can run existing content. With different combination of new classes/prestige and races, it keep people occupied longer then new content. Please, no more Necro-type quests.

No way, I want to get my existing group of chars to level 20, content first!

glug
01-08-2008, 12:38 PM
I agree with this, and would have no problem with people being able to respec characters for money.

I'd be *very* happy if a skill respec went in, much like the feat and enhancement ones are. I really wish I could change out how I picked all of my skills before I understood how they translated into game play.

Also, whoever commented that a respec should reset xp to 0 should roll an alt and go, "oh!"

CSFurious
01-08-2008, 12:42 PM
but, i do not believe that anything discussed in this thread will ever be developed for this game

the bread & butter of this game right now after looting is re-rolls and/or multiple characters

& then, Turbine needs to program this & it cannot even raise the level cap by more than 4 levels within weeks of the 2nd anniversary

sorry, it will be 2012 before this happens

Cireeric
01-08-2008, 02:31 PM
I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception. I even agree with the idea of paying extra for it - of course, that might be a bit selfish since I'm one of those late 30's professionals who look at $20 as a minor expense that doesn't have anything to do with whether I pay my mortgage, car, etc.

I get the point of the Tome ML's - I'd be much more in favor of multiple bound tomes dropping - if you have +3 eaten, then you get three, a +1, +2 & +3 as others have posted. The exact ML doesn't matter much but most of the proposals are in the ballpark - I consider it a minor detail that isn't a dealbreaker by any means.

What I don't get is - why anybody would oppose it at all? It's a bit like - how does this detract from your own gaming experience? There are things and situations where it's good to impose your morals and values on others...when it impacts others...a common example are criminal acts - even exploiting/cheating affects the remaining community because it tends to result in game changes that may or may not impact others. However, on an issue such as this, it doesn't quite meet that threshold of acceptability. It's a bit like explaining to your wife that she's going to do something the way you tell her to and she's going to have to like it. Think about how successful that line usually is...

Also, arguments of sucking up development time just seems false - charging for the service by it's nature promotes the retention of additional programmers to do the work (yeah, it's probably one of the core 3 or 4 programmers doing it, but there might be other loaned help in other areas given to the game...perhaps another customer service GM, who knows...) - AND, as a programmer myself, it strikes me as rather easy to do. The why is simple - most of the mechanics to do this are already in place...they should be able to use existing code (aka, the trainers/levelers) to let the characters level. I'd guess a function/procedure that branches out to build objects (the tomes) - stores them temporarily, access the existing character generation screens & lets you complete it, then adds the tomes to inventory, would be extremely simple to code, test and debug. This is not a huge task.

The real issue is, do they want to do it - because of what they want players to do - it's all about the grind. I'm not trying to be negative or complain, just stating the obvious. It's not really in the best interest of Turbine as a whole to make it easier for you to swap out your entire character rather than make you re-level and re-acquire everything...if only for all the other players...the act of you levelling provides new players somebody to group with.

Nax

How can a respec change a characters race?

When it is said "I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception.", it sounds like you want a totally different character with the benefits of tomes gained by another character. Reincarnation?

Sorry, I just do not agree with respec, of any type, especially if it entails a payment of real money.

The way I would like to see it done would be, skills only respec. All tomes would be applied to a character at the level originally used.

Dworkin_of_Amber
01-08-2008, 03:24 PM
How can a respec change a characters race?

When it is said "I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception.", it sounds like you want a totally different character with the benefits of tomes gained by another character. Reincarnation?

Sorry, I just do not agree with respec, of any type, especially if it entails a payment of real money.

The way I would like to see it done would be, skills only respec. All tomes would be applied to a character at the level originally used.

The Devs have already posted that they do not have a mechanism for tracking what levels a character ate tomes. So given this, I was trying to come up with the most fair possible way of doing things. And I never suggested changing Race or Name as part of this. Appearance, Class, Alignment, Feats, Skills yes.

There are good reasons for allowing Alignment - When the game first came out (Pre-Order), there was no real reason to go with any of the Alignments (Stability existed, but no one had seen a "of Pure Good" weapon, or knew Greater Stability would be added, etc. So many Pre-Order Players made characters with Alignments based on PnP Experience (myself included).

As for Appearance - Why not allow people change Appearance of their character.

Class - Again, with some of the FUNDAMENTAL changes to the game that have happened (Evasion, Balance, Enhancement System, Uselessness of AC at higher levels, etc) there are certainly GOOD reasons for allowing class changes. For example, in the early Level-10 Cap days, Battle Clerics were not only highly effective, they often could lead the kills for the entire party (I know, Dworkin used to out kill everyone back in the day)... but given the fundamental changes in the game since then, the 13/1 Battle Cleric cannot be the party healer and frontline fighter anymore... so the ability to revert to a standard Caster Cleric, or rebuild into a Cleric-splashed fighter for self-buffing... thus allowing these characters to become useful again. And then again, there is the Enhancement Nerf that destroyed a million Batman builds... the list goes on and on.

Feats - We already can do this 1 at a time, but if you want to take out a chain (like TWF-ITWF-STWF, or Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack) it takes a *LOT* of Plat & Dragonshards. Allow a method to do it all at once.

Skills - This is the primary reason for the Respec. But let a Respec be a RESPEC... complete and total

rimble
01-08-2008, 04:13 PM
That is a well thought out idea.

Would new classes be restricted from this service for six months or so upon their initial release? You'd have a bunch of level 16 Monks spring up everywhere otherwise. Sure, that's not the end of the world, but a nice shiny new class should play up through the levels in my opinion.

I think a full class respec would get too hairy and too manipulative anyways. Level up as a Fighter or whatever because it's easy then respec to a Wizard without going through those early painful levels, stuff like that. I think it would be most true to just make you level up in the same class order as you originally did, or MAYBE let you shuffle your levels around. So if this were implemented soon, you could take your level 14 Paladin, take 2 levels of Rogue when the cap goes up to 16, then respec and take Rogue at level 1 and 9 or whatever...but really I'd be against implementing that.

My general idea in regards to respecs is to be able to retool my character slightly because of either very poor decisions I made or because of completely unanticipated changes that were really detrimental to my build, not switch him over to something completely unrelated to his original concept.

If you're playing a Paladin and want to make a Wizard, then start a Wizard from level 1, but it'd be nice to be able to fix your screwed up high-level Paladin (oh boy is mine screwed up).

Fallout
01-08-2008, 06:12 PM
How can a respec change a characters race?

When it is said "I think that if you're going to do a 'total respec' it should be total - that includes everything - Class, Race, Alignment, everything without exception.", it sounds like you want a totally different character with the benefits of tomes gained by another character. Reincarnation?

Sorry, I just do not agree with respec, of any type, especially if it entails a payment of real money.

The way I would like to see it done would be, skills only respec. All tomes would be applied to a character at the level originally used.

Star Wars Galaxies did that, their whole character system was based on that. Drop class skills, pick up new ones. One week could be dancer, next week could be carbineer.

It seems alot of PnP players cannot grasp or accept that a character with same name could be different class. The twinking arguement is moot, it already exist, and not going to change.

Also gives chance to fix 28 pt build characters into 32 pt builds, and un-retire other characters.

fefnir3284
01-08-2008, 06:14 PM
lol, I swore Id never pay for anything extra in any game. Im one who believes that the per month fee they get from me should be enough, but Id have to say I would pay 10, if not 20$, to respec my four originial characters that would ALL get an additional 4 stat points by going from 28 to 32.

yes all would get 4 points.

my human pally/rogue (14/8/12/14/14/14) dex would go from 8 to 12 (maxing out at 20 : perfect for my bp of vol),

my wf bard/ranger/wizard (14/12/10/14/14/14) con would go from 10 to 14 (cant max dex as I dont have any extra feats for mith fluidity 1 or 2) for an uber +28 more hp (208 -> 236),

my elven ranger/rogue/wizard (12/16/08/14/12/14) would, of course, gain +4 con (148 -> 176),

and my elven cleric/fighter/wizard (10/14/08/14/14/15) is the only one I dont know where to put stat points at, I guess Id give her +2 str and +2 con (hps to 200 even @ 14), yeah that will work nicely.

okay turbine Im resolved, add this function and youll get the 80$ that is already waiting in my bank account for you ^.^

Kavel_Havae
01-08-2008, 06:20 PM
I like this Idea...

1. Real US$ - puts cash in the hands of the devs to do more quality work and would help offset the dev cost to implement.
2. Not a Plat Purchase - you would be putting money in plat farmer hands ASAP that way, and not Turbines.
3. Staggered Tomes - I Like this... even though I have a +2 int tome (eaten at lvl 1) on a Bard, it's a penalty I will take if need be to re-roll.
4. Cash Money should let me change class and appearance, if I want....
5. New Classes should be locked for a time after release. Lvl 16-18 monks 2 minutes after the Monk update, would chap me to no end.

thanks again to the "of amber"s for this thread.

fefnir3284
01-08-2008, 06:23 PM
-I think it is fair to re-earn the xp if you are getting to change stuff around.
-Maybe break tomes down into pieces. If someone has a +3 inheirent bonus, put in a bound +1, +2, +3 tome of that stat.
-Some minor class changes, not able to go completely different.


no the re-earning of exp. you want to keep all your items and have each +3 tome take up 3 item slots. where would you hold them all, and all your old gear at? plus where would you find all the space for all the new items youll be needing?

again no to the re-earing of exp. especially if I am going to pay for the respec and I keep all items, tomes and favor. a 3 month grind for exp only? no thank you


And this is something I totally agree with and comment on in every Respec Post...

Adding a deeper Respec to the game should be at the buttom of the Devs to do list. They need to focus on New content, adding all the player handbook and eberron races and classes and bring the game to level 20 before they even put any time into a deeper respec system.

Once we get to that point we can see the full impact of the changes to the game so we will have a better idea on what we can do with characters.

but doing this would yeild no concent fast. service fee for $$$, lots of people like it, equals lots of $$$ for turbine, lots of $$$ = more resources which = more devs, which = more content faster. so its a win/win situation

Ciaran
01-08-2008, 06:27 PM
PnPP doesn't have a "full respec" option, but the Spell and Feat swaps do have some precedence in PnP, so they are implemented in-game.

Hmm, I thought the PHB II included a way for lower level and higher level characters (albeit risky, especially for higher level characters) to "respec" their character, in everyway except race and gender.

I'll have to double check the specifics when I get home.

Vengenance
01-08-2008, 06:57 PM
I would definately pay to respec at least 4 of my toons (Pally, Cleric, Fighter and Sorc). That's some pretty easy money for Turbine and the suggested system is not over-powered and seems pretty reasonable. I know I've made some build mistakes that I'd like to correct as well as Tubine has made several changes to the game over the last couple of years that have made older builds more challenging to play as a result of the changes.

akla_thornfist
01-08-2008, 07:10 PM
i would pay for this respect for one of my characters, this could be some much needed cash for ddo development and a win win for all, those that are against this idea all i can say is why! how will this affect your gameplay or your enjoyment of this game. kargon had a great respect thread as well but turbine didnt seem interested in that one either.

fefnir3284
01-08-2008, 07:24 PM
and make it so you can change alignments too. from the start Ive always had 6 chracters in mind, and its no coincident that there are only 6 choseable alignments, so why would I have two LG and no LN? answer I DIDNT, so I am still standing firm that there was/is still and alignment bug that occurred.

fefnir : mule
katlin : LN (not LG -_-) : delaras, part 3, 3rd soul lock, archer across, re-equipped pure good without boosting, and was able to
alek : (LG)
thaeros : (CG)
korinn : (NG)
eilajas : (CN)
pajael : (TN)
tharam : (mule)

so while Im respecing let me change my merc cos alignment back to LN :*(

GlassCannon
01-08-2008, 07:34 PM
Except...

http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50276671/Plastic_Spoons.jpg

http://www.spoonscoffee.com/images/6503%7Espoons-posters_1u7z.jpg

many of them.

The respec thing had been covered to death. As for the OP's spelling, that can be addressed later if it hasn't already.

Tl;dr.

Aspenor
01-09-2008, 09:14 AM
Since I last posted here I have changed my mind....

I would pay even just to respec my character into a different alignment.

I'd love if it could make 28 pt into 32.

And my rogue wants to respec a few skills.

DareDelvis
01-09-2008, 10:28 AM
I like the respec idea. I would pay.

I still play my original five 28 point 1750+ characters. Are they gimped? No way. Would I like to be able to take ponits out of swim? Sure. Lower the dex on the barb in favor of con that I rolled in March of 2006? Sure. They are still fun, but could be better.

(I still believe that items and player skill are more important than stat or skill points in anything but less than average designed characters).

I have one 32 point 1750+ character.

I do not see the downside, other than potential use of dev time, but even that is arguably not a downside if respec is feature deisred by a majority.

I have grouped with skillfull people who have been in the game for a week or two and less than optimally skilled players who have played for over a year.

One can easily argue that generation of potentially "bad" clerics, for example, caused by someone changing their barbarian into a cleric could be offset by the tweaking of existing clerics into better ones by better distribution of stat points, skill points and adjustment of class, like going pure cleric as opposed to brilliant but some what outdated "Warpriest" build.

Cheers.

Dane_McArdy
01-09-2008, 11:00 AM
Since I last posted here I have changed my mind....

I would pay even just to respec my character into a different alignment.

I'd love if it could make 28 pt into 32.

And my rogue wants to respec a few skills.

Why do you want/need to do this?

Fallout
01-09-2008, 11:00 AM
One can easily argue that generation of potentially "bad" clerics, for example, caused by someone changing their barbarian into a cleric could be offset by the tweaking of existing clerics into better ones by better distribution of stat points, skill points and adjustment of class, like going pure cleric as opposed to brilliant but some what outdated "Warpriest" build.

Cheers.

Agree, if someone is a bad player, new chars they make or what ever they do, they'll be bad players regardless. And the inverse is true, if a someone is a good player, and new chars or remake of existing chars, they'll still be a good player. But now can be even better players after tweaking their chars.

DDO emphasize char building, well respecing is the ultimate way to tweak chars. And to fix problems. Alot of people are willing to pay, if anything, a one time deal to fix alot of old chars.

Win-Win. Money for turbine, happiness for players.