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Tolero
11-30-2007, 11:55 AM
Myth Busters: Bragging Edition & New Community Feature

We realize that the community is very polarized on the subject of "bragging." Community members would like to be able to express their accomplishments, but these threads derail into flame wars and other negative community interaction that involves users being rude to one another. We would like players to be able to share and be proud of their in game achievements, but we would like to foster a positive interaction between community members. Therefor, we are very pleased to bring you a brand new community forum feature:

Achievements

With our new Achievement forum (http://forums.ddo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=154), you will be able to gather together to discuss your in-game triumphs and accomplishments.

Beat a difficult quest or raid?
Reached level cap?
Achieved a character or guild milestone?
Celebrating the hard work of your fellow players?


Use the Achievement forum to spotlight your accomplishments!

All forum guidelines apply to posts within the Achievement forum which effectively means: be polite to one another.

Additionally, to clarify what behavior is not tolerated in relation to celebrating your accomplishments please reference the following samples of different types of posts:

Acceptable: I pulled my first vorpal!
Unacceptable: I pulled my first vorpal it's better than yours

Acceptable: At 12pm the InsertName Guild beat the Mod 6 raid! It was a hard fight and it took us 4 hours! Gratz to my fellow guildies, you rock!
Unacceptable: At 12pm the InsertName Guild beat the Mod 6 raid before all you other losers!...
Unacceptable: At 12pm the InsertName Guild beat the Mod 6 raid! Aren't we the best? Don't you wish you had skills like us? Gratz to my fellow guildies, you rock more than anyone else in the game!

Acceptable: I just reached level cap! Thanks to everyone who helped me!
Acceptable: First to hit 16!
Unacceptable: HA! I schooled all of you, First to hit 16!

Sample Original Post: My guildie beat the [raid boss]
Acceptable Discussion:
Player 1: What classes did you use?
Player 2: Gratz
Player 3: What loot dropped?
Player 4: We were trying but looks like you beat us. Gratz anyway.
Unacceptable Discussion:
Player 1: Nobody cares
Player 2: quit blowing your own horn
Player 3: This guild is a bad guild and you should avoid them
Player 4: My guild could do it faster than yours
Player 5: You cheated!

Sample Original Post: My guild beat the raid boss!
Sample Response: Gratz!
Sample Response: How did you beat it?
Acceptable OP Responses:
Original Poster: Thanks!
Original Poster: Well we got a healer and two rogues with high pick lock and...
Unacceptable OP Responses:
Original Poster: You're just jealous!!
Original Poster: Thanks newbs
Original Poster: Anybody who does this after me is a copy cat!
Original Poster: You could never beat us we're the best!

What all unacceptable examples have in common is: being disrespectful to your fellow community member. There is an old saying that applies best to situations like these which is: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Forum guidelines always refer back to the same principal which is that if you participate in the forum community you must treat each other with respect. We hope that this new forum feature will enable players to celebrate together in a way that encourages "friendly" interaction.

brshelton
11-30-2007, 12:25 PM
are you saying the mod 6 boss needs 2 lock pickers?

Tolero
11-30-2007, 12:25 PM
Hypothetical example my dear don't read too deeply into that ^^

moorewr
11-30-2007, 12:27 PM
are you saying the mod 6 boss needs 2 lock pickers?

Yes, and if he/she doesn't, I for one plan to koo-koo pants about it.

thatguy
11-30-2007, 12:59 PM
Myth Busters: Bragging Edition & New Community Feature
Acceptable: I pulled my first vorpal!
Unacceptable: I pulled my first vorpal it's better than yours


With all due respect I think your missing the point, my vorpal is better because its mine! Your vorpal is useless to me. By the same token you could turn that around and say that your vorpal is better then mine for the exact same reason! I'm sorry not flaming anyone just had to clarify.

Thank you.

Gratch
11-30-2007, 01:05 PM
Are there variations between snide and comical that are acceptable/unacceptable? Such as:

Original Post: I pulled an EL16 (RR) +5 Holyburst Adamantine Heavy Pick

Snide: I pulled a Muckbane

More towards Comical: That's a nice weapon, too bad holy burst doesn't scale with crit multiplier. That's why I use muckbane for everything.

Is snide even okay when it's one of those days or do we all need to be eggshell walkers initially?

Lyletuba
11-30-2007, 01:08 PM
I reached level cap. :D

Tolero
11-30-2007, 01:09 PM
The definition of "snide" is
"derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner"

and that is behavior that we like to discourage. Playful joking is fine, but remember always that you do not have the benefit of voice inflection to clarify to people that you're just playing around. The same statement said over voice chat vs typed can be received differently. It can also be received differently between two people who are acquaintances and two people who are strangers. Remember that because this is a public forum, that which you say is said among the company of strangers.

Dane_McArdy
11-30-2007, 01:12 PM
Yes, and if he/she doesn't, I for one plan to koo-koo pants about it.

HA! You used my Koo koo pants!

Now if anyone can tell me where koo koo pants comes from, I will uber impressed.

akla_thornfist
11-30-2007, 01:16 PM
thanks for posting this tolero, maybe some of the psuedo mods will stop telling people how or what they can say on these boards , they are the ones that cause most of the flame wars IMHO

ehondajim
11-30-2007, 01:17 PM
The definition of "snide" is
"derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner"

and that is behavior that we like to discourage. Playful joking is fine, but remember always that you do not have the benefit of voice inflection to clarify to people that you're just playing around. The same statement said over voice chat vs typed can be received differently. It can also be received differently between two people who are acquaintances and two people who are strangers. Remember that because this is a public forum, that which you say is said among the company of strangers.
*in exasperated tone*

It'll never work.

*angry tone*

Shut up Ehonda!!

*affronted tone*

No you Jim.

*threatening tone*

Make me Honda boy.

*grim tone*

You asked for it Hillbilly Jim.

*sounds of punches landing*

*onlookers gather to see me fight with myself.*

:D

borgec
11-30-2007, 01:20 PM
HA! You used my Koo koo pants!

Now if anyone can tell me where koo koo pants comes from, I will uber impressed.

Koo Koo Pants R' Us?

Dane_McArdy
11-30-2007, 01:30 PM
Koo Koo Pants R' Us?

bbbbbzzzzzzzzzrrrrrttttTTTTTTTTT!

Not even close. Thanks for playing!

ehondajim
11-30-2007, 01:34 PM
HMMMM???

http://www.sleepyheads.com/Browse_by_Brand/KooKoo_Pajamas,_Robes_and_Towels/Koo_Koo_Groom_Blue_Striped_Pajama_Pants

If I'm right, I cheated.

If I'm wrong I used an exploit.

bigal4458
11-30-2007, 01:41 PM
The definition of "snide" is
"derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner"

and that is behavior that we like to discourage. Playful joking is fine, but remember always that you do not have the benefit of voice inflection to clarify to people that you're just playing around. The same statement said over voice chat vs typed can be received differently. It can also be received differently between two people who are acquaintances and two people who are strangers. Remember that because this is a public forum, that which you say is said among the company of strangers.

I think of Will Ferrel in SNL playing "Voice Immodulation Disorder Guy" singing "Shout", while being unable to change the inflection or volume of his voice.

DZX
11-30-2007, 01:53 PM
Can't help but feel like things are going downhill when we need specific rules on how to brag.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-30-2007, 02:07 PM
are you saying the mod 6 boss needs 2 lock pickers?

Pfft....The mod 6 boss only needs 2 lock pickers if you are noobs, I did it with one and he had his left hand tied behind his back. You just need to get the lock picks from the preraid and have a DD of 60.

Mockduck
11-30-2007, 02:09 PM
I've noticed that it's oftentimes not the original post that makes things go downhill but the replies and OP-post-replies. People bringing in-game and old grudges out in these kind of posts. Ya know, maybe it's just me, but i've rarely felt the need to "defend myself" on a forum post. If someone doesn't like me or what I've said, just let it go! Maybe its because I have no message board honor to defend....I'm a rogue in the Internight.

And my vorpal isn't better than yours, because I'm a drow and its RR halfling.... :(

NiBB
11-30-2007, 02:46 PM
That's pretty sad that we have to micromanage peoples forum responses. Acceptable responses? Unacceptable responses? Shouldn't that be self explanitory?

Sad sad sad.

ccheath776
11-30-2007, 03:06 PM
The definition of "snide" is
"derogatory in a nasty, insinuating manner"

and that is behavior that we like to discourage. Playful joking is fine, but remember always that you do not have the benefit of voice inflection to clarify to people that you're just playing around. The same statement said over voice chat vs typed can be received differently. It can also be received differently between two people who are acquaintances and two people who are strangers. Remember that because this is a public forum, that which you say is said among the company of strangers.

Anybody want to go snide hunting?

brshelton
11-30-2007, 03:21 PM
um how have you done the mod 6 boss lorien? is it on risia yet?

Shaamis
11-30-2007, 03:23 PM
Hypothetical example my dear don't read too deeply into that ^^


she called you "my dear"

I'm so jealous :p

keep up the good work, seeya next GenCon

Ryan, aka: Shaamis "Kegtapper" BloodAxe

brshelton
11-30-2007, 03:25 PM
lol yay im a dear! too late tolero i read too deep yay she leaked mod 6 raid details!

moorewr
11-30-2007, 03:27 PM
HA! You used my Koo koo pants!

Now if anyone can tell me where koo koo pants comes from, I will uber impressed.

No clue, but a search of Wikipedia brings up Chuck Norris as the first match:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Vengeance

I was amused. :)

Pellegro
11-30-2007, 04:29 PM
Good idea, thanks for giving these posts and posters a home.

Good luck enforcing the rules: Unfortunately, the same reasons that led you to feel compelled to type out the rules also virtually guaranty that the rules won't be followed.... :(

Of course, you could name the new bragging forum "THE PIT" and just let users go nutso in there. Frankly, I think that would be kinda cool as those going in would be "on notice" of what they're getting into...

Oh, new T-Shirt idea: "DDO PIT FIGHTING - Redefining PvP"

Borrigain
11-30-2007, 04:32 PM
...for giving us a place to be funny.

.....and not get in trouble.








.....yet.


This forum is now my unofficial fave. I've been giggling like a little schoolgirl for hours now.

:D

Borr.

Edit: I vote for "awesomeness" thread to be TotW.

Tany
11-30-2007, 05:13 PM
This is a great addition to the DDO forums! Thanks guys!

mcgyver12001
11-30-2007, 05:40 PM
Oh Dang....I'd better stay outta this paticular forum...
Sheesh...This W.E.O.D.O.M would be in trouble just coming thru the door...
Hard to walk with 12" foam pads on muddy boots, and Crutchs....
There'd be all kinds of broken eggy shells every where....
Rip
Rap
Rizzen
ratten...
AARRRGGGGHHHH...
Walks away mumbling....SHEESH....


Proud Founder and remaining life Charter Member of the W.E.O.D.O.M club
Careful what ya say, got a thousand comebacks for every comment left open ended!!!.....HEHEHE


W.E.O.D.O.M = Wicked Evil Onery Dirty Old Man

Dane_McArdy
11-30-2007, 05:41 PM
HMMMM???

http://www.sleepyheads.com/Browse_by_Brand/KooKoo_Pajamas,_Robes_and_Towels/Koo_Koo_Groom_Blue_Striped_Pajama_Pants

If I'm right, I cheated.

If I'm wrong I used an exploit.

Bbbbrrrzzzzttttt

Not even close! But thanks!

Cordelia
11-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Pravda Anyone?

Agarwaen
11-30-2007, 06:10 PM
Good idea and a very nice addition to the forums guys! I also found your explanation of what is (and what is not) acceptable, to be most thorough.

However--given that I now know the player base does not consist of infant monkeys whacking a keyboard (yes, it was shocking to discovered this)--it makes me a bit sad that it was needful for you to give such bare-bones examples of what makes a person enjoyable to chat with, verses what makes them slightly less appealing than contracting zombie rot in the hooty-hoo region.

But, unfortunately, it was needed, so thank you for the breakdown on civility as well.

BlueLightBandit
11-30-2007, 06:26 PM
Myth Busters: Bragging Edition & New Community Feature

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.



Tolero, I've got an enormous amount of respect for your accomplishments and what you did even before hired on by Turbine... that being said I have to respectfully disagree with the direction you seem to be pushing here.

Let me start off by saying I think the bragging is simply ignorant, but there are a lot of other threads on here that contain abusive and condescending posts without ever mentioning accomplishments. So monitoring the "bragging" threads like the nuns at my catholic school really changes very little.

Agreement is no discussion, and a discussion with no disagreement is awfully boring and pretty much eliminates the need for actual conversation. If you really wanted to be able to remove all feelings and emotions from the discussion, why not simply create a template with spaces for Character Name, Guild Name, Quest Name, Time of Completion, and a screenshot, and then allow a fixed number of responses selectable from a drop down menu of choices, a la "What was your group makeup?" "What weapons did you use?" "What was your end reward?" and so on and so forth.

I think Voltaire said it best when he said "I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it." (Let's not get into an arguement about whether this is a democracy or whatever. It's not, I know that. But being able to freely address your complaints is something that is an inherent need of mankind, and dates back as far as recorded history. Besides, it's one of the "inalienable rights" granted by the US Constitution. Canadians are just out of luck.)

(Dude, that was a joke, lighten up)

I personally think that people should be able to post the other side of the coin (and there's ALWAYS an "other side"). If I think the group had taken advantage of an exploit, I should be able to post my thoughts on it. That DOES NOT mean I can criticize the player or the guild, only the tactic used and why that I think it's not fair. Under your specific examples that would be an unacceptable post. Again, this is something that should be noticed in EVERY thread, is that certain people (and they tend to repeat themselves) go completely askew from topic, and berate a poster, as opposed to discussing the topic.

Personally I feel any post that leaves the discussion to argue a single unrelated point is worse than a thousand bragging threads. Why? Because the majority of mature posters on here can smell a bragging thread a mile away, but will often be forced to "defend themselves" against a vehement off-topic attack on their person or guild. We know when to agree or disagree or congratulate or simply stay away from certain posts... but when someone directs the discussion onto us, we tend to lose sight of that.

My point is that if you guys are going to moderate the threads, keep an eye out for the posts that leave topic to berate and attack individual posters, as opposed to discussing the pros and cons of the topic. The idea is that you give infractions appropriately for those things, and those people who either know the rules and don't follow the rules or are too obtuse to follow the rules are given enough points so that their ability to communicate is severely limited. My problem, and I have posted it before, is that the moderating rules have not been established and enforced properly because posters that routinely harass and berate, keep coming back.

If we truly are going to be a ponies and flowers and rainbows forum from here on out, I'll gladly take my cue and leave. But don't expect me to go out without at least a fight.

And to all the Forum Moderators, nobody said you have an easy job, and very few of us envy the tasks you accomplish on a daily basis. But it takes a heckuva lot more than a severe finger wagging session to quiet a rowdy mob. My only suggestion would be to make infraction points public, and mark the infraction-earning posts clearly, so we as posters and members of the community would see what is allowable and what is not.

BlueLightBandit
11-30-2007, 06:56 PM
No clue, but a search of Wikipedia brings up Chuck Norris as the first match:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Vengeance

I was amused. :)


That’s pain friend, and it could get a lot worse.

Awesome btw... but could we stay on topic?

(Or is self-moderating a no-no?)

moorewr
11-30-2007, 06:59 PM
Awesome btw... but could we stay on topic?

(Or is self-moderating a no-no?)

This is in grave danger of becoming moorewr's "why Chuck Norris hates America thread" and then be closed by the moderators, so let's skip it. :)

Kistilan
11-30-2007, 07:32 PM
This is in grave danger of becoming moorewr's "why Chuck Norris hates America thread" and then be closed by the moderators, so let's skip it. :)

I beg your pardon, but the real forum's Chuck Norris has his user's signature as signed U S A U S A and location is Americatown.

Chuck loves America.

I <3 Chuck. Gonna miss you buddy -- off to officer boot camp I go.

Also, did Tolero cover the possible rules in the achievement forums revolving around mom jokes and nice things one might say about one's mother? After all, my mom rules because she brings us milk and cookies while we're in the dungeon.... *drum roll*

moorewr
11-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I <3 Chuck.

I'm glad you like him. Moving right along...

Clay
11-30-2007, 07:39 PM
I personally think that people should be able to post the other side of the coin (and there's ALWAYS an "other side"). If I think the group had taken advantage of an exploit, I should be able to post my thoughts on it. That DOES NOT mean I can criticize the player or the guild, only the tactic used and why that I think it's not fair. Under your specific examples that would be an unacceptable post. Again, this is something that should be noticed in EVERY thread, is that certain people (and they tend to repeat themselves) go completely askew from topic, and berate a poster, as opposed to discussing the topic.

Personally I feel any post that leaves the discussion to argue a single unrelated point is worse than a thousand bragging threads. Why? Because the majority of mature posters on here can smell a bragging thread a mile away, but will often be forced to "defend themselves" against a vehement off-topic attack on their person or guild. We know when to agree or disagree or congratulate or simply stay away from certain posts... but when someone directs the discussion onto us, we tend to lose sight of that.


You raise some interesting points BlueLightBandit, but one thing to consider is just because one person THINKS another exploited, doesn't make it so. So accusations start flying around and, like you said, Accusations force many calm people to start to vehemently defend themselves. I think that one can leave it to the Devs to determine if an exploit was used. And if they say an exploit wasn't used, but the accusations still come up in posts... is this fair?

But i agree whole heartedly with the highlighted portion. Having grown up in a large family of opinionated people I have always enjoyed "disagreement" when it is in the spirit of healthy debate. But unfounded arguments and accusations "because I'M right" should never be considered acceptable posting.

Zorlinta
11-30-2007, 07:45 PM
Im agree with BlueLightBandit that the way that someway moderators are taking some forums is someway way off the right road, you should check every posts not just some posts if you want efficiently moderate it.

Anyway im too belive is not really a good idea this kind of new forum, im seen from many other games fan forums that this kind of sub-forum is not really efficient. But im like the idea as was already proposed that must include a strong description of the achivement, so we everything may have an interesting feedback and learn something from it.

So by sample if guild x defeated raid boss, should type not just my xxx guild completed raid #5, but instead my guild xxx today completed raid #5 with the following party 2 cleric, 3 casters, 2 bards, 1 rogue, 4 melee in 1hour and we got 1 named item, 1 xx vorpal and 1 +3 wis tome, our tactic: we let the melees tank the boss, while 1 cleric spam healing on them, the casters nuke the mini monsters, the rogue disarmed the big trap, the bards keep singing doing nothing else (lol like i always do) and the left cleric was refilling the other cleric mana. In this way we could have more interesting viewpoints, and promote the positive feedback, else in a week we gonna see 100 topics of same boring reading....Got a new +1 tome of dexterity by dextomefinder.


Edit:
By the way can we have flamming/burning sub-forums plz?, those for high spamers where we can troll in safelly?, are good and really fun :), and a good way to relax & stress out too :) specially needed when you were killed N+1 times on X or Y quest

BlueLightBandit
11-30-2007, 07:57 PM
You raise some interesting points BlueLightBandit, but one thing to consider is just because one person THINKS another exploited, doesn't make it so. So accusations start flying around and, like you said, Accusations force many calm people to start to vehemently defend themselves. I think that one can leave it to the Devs to determine if an exploit was used. And if they say an exploit wasn't used, but the accusations still come up in posts... is this fair?

But i agree whole heartedly with the highlighted portion. Having grown up in a large family of opinionated people I have always enjoyed "disagreement" when it is in the spirit of healthy debate. But unfounded arguments and accusations "because I'M right" should never be considered acceptable posting.

I agree completely. What I'm saying is that I should be able to say exactly that... "I THINK abc and xyz."

The flip side of that is that abc and xyz should never be condescending, judgemental, or basically targeted AT a poster.

The post "I think you cheated." is not in-and-of-itself a harrassing post. "I think you cheated because you're a weak player" is a totally different bag of peanuts. Tolero's guidebook doesn't delineate between the two, they're both outlawed.

Tolero
11-30-2007, 08:41 PM
We have been watching posts very carefully. Unfortunately the behavior perpetuates on a regular and enduring basis, and not always by the "same" people. Time and time again we explain what behavior is acceptable and not acceptable, in the closed posts, in private messages, in broader messages to the community, and time and time again the same behavior is exhibited by a broad audience.

Think of it like a dangerous intersection. Road systems have laws that govern how you may drive on certain sections (highway, neighborhood, etc). Despite this, some intersections are more prone to accidents, and have fatality rates to accompany this. Therefor, traffic lights or stop signs are erected to curtail the high fatality rate of dangerous intersections. We would much rather provide a feature for the community than scolding players ad nauseum, so we thought we would give this approach a try.

As to the discussion of the infraction system and the prohibition of discussion of disciplinary action, we can continue in PM Blue, as my example has a high probability of derailing into talk of politics, which is also a "dangerous intersection." :)

We value feedback. Implementation of a feature - in game, forum, or otherwise - is bound to prompt the need to monitor feed back related to that feature. Therefor, we appreciate the constructive and polite criticism that has been brought forth.

infernalmal
11-30-2007, 10:55 PM
This is an awesome idea. Having all these threads in one place will make them easy to enforce. The silly people who don't like these threads can just stay away. Kudos to the forum team for listening to reasonable subscribers requests and putting a stop to a few ruining a fun part of the game (sharing accomplishments). I might have to repost some threads that completely met the above requirements minus the one or two people who said "This is bragging wah! wah! wah!" and couldn't mind their own business and hit report. Once again good job forum team and this will make everyones ddo forum life ezier & funner.

Attomic
12-01-2007, 07:45 AM
That's pretty sad that we have to micromanage peoples forum responses. Acceptable responses? Unacceptable responses? Shouldn't that be self explanitory?

Sad sad sad.

Should be self-explanatory but isn't - and yes, that's a sad commentary on too many forum-goers. BLB is correct in essence, but there are far too many people who confuse the REAL meaning of argument/discussion with nastiness/attack. What Tolero's (and, by extension, Turbine) trying to do is enforce THAT difference - it's entirely possible to disagree, even vehemently, without personal attack:

1) I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying, and here's a detailed explanation of just why I think you're on the wrong track: (insert reasonable thought process).

vs.

2) You're wrong. You suck. You're an idiot. (note the lack of explanation or well-thought-out reasons, just personal accusations/denigration)

Number 1 is perfectly acceptable by the system being proposed by Tolero. Number 2 isn't. It's a shame that the difference has to be spelled out for so many people, but it's obviously necessary to make the rules crystal clear - all these people are already forum-goers and deserve the chance to follow the rules (by being SHOWN exactly what those rules MEAN) before catching flak.

Ringlord
12-01-2007, 08:48 AM
I think it is very plain and simple myself. Disagreement and discussion of opposite views is perfectly fine until you start throwing personal attacks into your posts at those you are disagreeing with. A good example would be to not debate like a Presidential hopeful where it seems the norm to make attacks on your opponent regardless of if they are true.

We as a forum community have all been guilty of selective reading of posts and gotten bent out of shape because we did not read all of a post or because we only read what we wanted to see there or because we added our own inflections to what someone posted. It is a danger of text only communication that is unavoidable and will trip up the absolute best people at times. The best we can do is try as hard as possible not to fall into that trap.

I don't have anything against people posting to brag when they pull a great item or beat a very difficult quest/raid be they first or the 10000th person to do so as long as they do it with style and class. I have no problem with people posting they doubt the person did it as long as they keep personal attacks out of it. Just saying someone exploited or "cheated" because you THINK they did is accusation of and convicting them of a crime without proof. If Turbine says something is considered an exploit and you can prove the person used it to complete the quest then you have grounds, but just THINKING they did it that way proves nothing.

As bad as the braggart may be who feels the need to blow their own horn so to speak because they can't even wait for someone else to post about their accomplishment, but rather feel they have to do it themselves or nobody else will, how much worse is the person who feels the need to constantly attack these types of posts like they are worthy of more than a passing notice by turning them into flame war against the OP? ( Sorry for the run on sentence :D my morning coffee has not kicked in yet )

stockwizard5
12-01-2007, 10:02 AM
Myth Busters: Bragging Edition & New Community Feature

Acceptable: First to hit 16!

NO NO NO NO NO NO ... this is the exact post that starts the flame war - and deservedly so.

The POSTING of something in NO WAY means it was first, best, only, or anything else, in any way shape or form. Add in the fact that a substantial number of these claims never happened, or used a blatent exploit, or are nothing more than lame attempts to put others down makes this whole concept a bad idea.

Now if you insist on allowing this then - thats your rules - but then let me post back that they are lying, cheating, exploiting losers.

Donnie
12-01-2007, 03:10 PM
EXCELLENT IDEA! Props to the devs on this one.

The point isn't whether they were "really" the first to reach whatever goal. The point IS that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

If they think they were the first, but they were not, so what! Does it really matter if they think they were or not? Honestly, if they were realistic enough they would know already that there is no real way to tell who was the first at anything unless the devs open up their logs. Chances are there is someone out there that has achieved the goal and never felt the need to say anything about it. In the end though, big freaking deal...in the big picture it means nothing. Either give your props or say nothing. Otherwise its an ego thing and a personal issue of having to prove this or that.

No offense ment by this post btw, just giving my take. Again, excellent move devs.

LOUDRampart
12-02-2007, 03:48 AM
Can't help but feel like things are going downhill when we need specific rules on how to brag.

Sounds like bragging is OK. It's the way people write it up both initially and following up.

Ringlord
12-02-2007, 08:06 AM
The point is stockwizard5 that the player making the post that they were first to L16 could post a screen shot to prove it and of course anyone who gets close enough to them in game could verify their claim so first off they would be rather lame to lie about such a simple accomplishment. You on the other hand could not claim they cheated or exploited without having grouped with them and without having not only screen shots, but likely video to prove your claim. Otherwise you are being a troll just because you don't like posts of claims of being first at something.

As I said in my first post here who is worse the person who feels the need for self promotion for making "first to whatever " posts or the person who has to attack them and accuse them of lieing or cheating because they don't like "first to whatever" posts? If the OP is done within the rules posted then exactly how does it diminish anyone else even if they did "exploit"? Posts of self praise are extremely silly in the first place and only matter to people who feel they have to compete with others toward in game goals. If you have to object to them and call people out on them then to me it means you find those kinds of goals important as well and attacking another player making such a post just means you are doing it out of jealousy or anger that you were not the first to accomplish that particular goal.

If you want to trust people and take them at their word then you would add a congrats to the thread and move on. If you don't believe them you just ignore it and move on. Are you any less as a player for not reacting to their claims if you don't believe them? No, but you certainly are by reacting so poorly that you have to call them names just because they made their post in the first place.

stockwizard5
12-02-2007, 11:46 AM
Readers of forums are looking for agreement or disagreement to help evaluate the voracity of posts - if these are not allowed the forums have no value.

A +1 dagger has a calculated DPS of 1234.56 - it is THE BEST weapon in the game.

Ringlord
12-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Disagreement is fine as long as you leave out the name calling. So if you see a bragging post you disagree with just say you don't believe they were first and leave it at that. Calling them a cheater, liar or exploiter is the part that is not allowed. You can tell someone you disagree with them without using words like those.

moorewr
12-02-2007, 01:02 PM
Readers of forums are looking for agreement or disagreement to help evaluate the voracity of posts - if these are not allowed the forums have no value.

A +1 dagger has a calculated DPS of 1234.56 - it is THE BEST weapon in the game.

Voracity? My post is voracious! NOM NOM NOM NOM...

http://sideways8.files.wordpress.com/2006/08/cookiemonster_1.jpg

Lucian_Navarro
12-02-2007, 01:45 PM
It is interesting how things are just so difficult and that the DDO forum police are forced to come up with solutions and or workarounds for people being just "rude".

We all make jokes and some jokes are good and some are bad. We have young players who sometimes lack the "tact" to express themselves for the entire group to relate too. We have many different personalities on these servers from around the world and I feel if we can just use a little "common sense" and "human compasion" we can "post and play" without getting on each others nerves.

Now that you have read my entire post...

I say... "Relax everyone and let's keep it casual and have fun".

ZEIRA
"The Angry Blue Faerie"

Reen
12-02-2007, 01:51 PM
herehere, this DDO, a friends game of teamwork not Diablo!!!

Kraak
12-02-2007, 02:42 PM
Would a congratulations to Turbine for a month of straight uptime go into the Bragging or Achievement category?

stockwizard5
12-02-2007, 02:52 PM
Calling them a cheater, liar or exploiter is the part that is not allowed. You can tell someone you disagree with them without using words like those.

Actually not really - I got warned for using "methods not intended" - any other ideas? The reality is we are not allowed to disagree - even if we witness it first hand (abb-pre-cough-cough) - if we can't respond - then the post should be prohibited as well.

lilyspad
12-02-2007, 02:56 PM
You have set an impossible goal in trying to micromanage people's bragging.
It makes Turbine look petty and silly.
You are trying to take on an impossible task.
And besides that...no mature person would even care or give the subject a second thought.
Bragging is a childish passtime and your efforts to stifle it will bear little fruit simply because it is a silly issue and no amount of nagging on your part will cause effective change.
Ask any mother.
Type A personalities make lousy parents.
Move on to something that will give you less headaches.
I can't believe that you would waste your time on somnething that you really can't control.

Wertik
12-02-2007, 03:15 PM
Come on folks you're reading entirely too much into what Tolero is trying to point out. There is no gray line. Either you are doing the right thing or your not. Follow the rules and noone gets hurt. You never know, Tolero might log on cast hold on you then try to vorpal you for being bad or annoying. Just kidding Tolero. Thought a little humor at this point would be good.

jellyfish21
12-02-2007, 03:53 PM
this is a great addition to the forums

Futslung
12-02-2007, 04:20 PM
Is this forum on Candid Camera??

bigtheuf
12-02-2007, 04:49 PM
Pfft....The mod 6 boss only needs 2 lock pickers if you are noobs, I did it with one and he had his left hand tied behind his back. You just need to get the lock picks from the preraid and have a DD of 60.


Yeah right, and its a thread about being nice, and respectfull, great job there dude.. great job..

Adro
12-02-2007, 05:11 PM
its funny how you are so adamant on names and using things you can't allow and yet you use 'myth busters' as the title... and I'll help you out because I really think you need to go back to psych 101 or college whoever is thinking up these things... People are always going to brag and they aren't going to do it on your rules. People that are bothering to brag on these things obviously think highly of them self so they are also going to think their equal accomplishments are better. So you what, punish them and annoy more customers? For the majority of us that wont care about this just paying someone to post and implement this junk instead of paying someone to give us more content just adds to our frustration. If you really want to make a better community, honestly I think you'd be better off firing or re-training your customer service staff. In case you cared Turbine has a well known reputation for having terrible CS and this is part of the reason. Complete lack of self accountability, respect for customers, or it seems caring to provide services to the broad customer base (just the handful of people that spam the boards).
/rant off ... I'll go back to being the silenced customer until I find the non-Turbine game that fits my needs
have a great day
Adro

Ringlord
12-02-2007, 06:54 PM
Adro what does this thread have to do with how quickly we get more content added to the game? Nothing because Tolero is not a game programmer for Turbine, but in customer relations. One more programmer working on new content is not going to get it to you any faster and even if they replaced her with a game programmer then we would have 1 less person to relate information to us from the devs who nobody wants wasting programming time coming here to tell us what the CR people are supposed to be telling us.

I love how when something like this thread over the new forum and the posting guidelines for it come up that everyone who already knew how basically how much longer we will have to wait for the next module and new content have a massive memory leak and suddenly because they don't agree with the decision that the devs are not working nearly fast enough on new content like they would not love to flood us with **** to do ASAP to shut us all up.

Big deal they are making a forum, which btw is handled by other people who are also NOT game programmers so it is taking NOTHING away from the devs getting work done on more content as fast as possible. Yes the need for people to brag about accomplishments is silly and in spite of what most people believe bragging is not limited to the younger ( kids ) people playing DDO. Many so called mature adults do it and as silly as it seems it can still be done with style and class so it is not offensive and that is what the posting rules are for.

Stockwizard5 even if you watch someone do something that is questionable to complete a quest or reach an in game goal if you can't speak against them by mentioning even in a round about way the exploit in question and not expect to get infraction points. So it was not that you disagreed with the poster bragging it was how you did it. Again just saying you disagree in the future is good enough because trying to convince others a bragger cheated is worse than them bragging about an accomplishment and claiming it is legit.

Adro
12-02-2007, 11:18 PM
Ringlord ... Keep up the good work! Just hope you are getting paid.

Crowwe
12-03-2007, 04:49 AM
Tolero,

Well, the Cube's posts are better!

(j/k)

Weedo
12-03-2007, 02:01 PM
Can't help but feel like things are going downhill when we need specific rules on how to brag.

noobs

JohnWarlock
12-10-2007, 05:09 AM
Actually I do believe that someone stating that they hit a certain level before anyone else is wrong, unless our already overworked programmers find it in their hearts to make a routine with specific parameters that flag something on characters, like a trophy screen or their accomplishments and/or who got it first. Now didn't the people in the test server hit level 16 anyway? So technically does anyone still have bragging rights about it? And the boss for mod 6? Lock Picking? I have KNOCK! HA!

btw I do believe that if the moderators are not getting paid (no free play-time) doesn't count as payment, counts as torture... having to Moderate and wasting free time... oh my god the PAIN!!!!!!!!!! Then no one should be complaining about the Mod not popping in soon enough. What I will complain is why the graphics on my Tempest Spine run are seriously messed up!

Oh and someone said **** above.... Think it was Ringlord, don't really check the forums often, I rather play... but that's just me. Now does that mean you get points for inferring and changing the characters in the lettering to hide a word, or do I get points for actually filling in the blanks? <grins>


Yes the rules can be annoying... specially when you have to watch out what you are saying, who knows after this post maybe I'll get banned of the forums permanently... I never know if what I say is offensive or not... but I always try to say it for fun... does that mean that if people take me seriously they are wrong? what if a moderator gives me points? is it ok if I put my rants on html tag form using a <fun> </fun> or <4fun> </4fun> ? <notserious> </notserious>, would that help? :D

Ok I'll stop being annoying... btw Gratz and my condolesense on becoming a target Tolero... err I mean a moderator. Yeah that's what I meant. :D

BTW... before I leave... if the Trolls and Flamers have been banned... why do we still need rules? I thought that if you weeded out the bad, the good didn't have to worry... maybe it's just me, maybe it's just logical thinking... then again I was never too logical. ty

query
12-23-2007, 03:56 AM
Give thanks for this option and play nice with Am..err..Mer..err...Var..err..Tolero (yeah, that's it!)

Sometimes we need to let off steam, and bragging about a personal accomplishment is one good way, as long as we do not insult others while doing it or insult others who did boast.

And Tolero does not handle the phone or ingame cusdtomer support. She is the moderator of here. While she may have input, this is not her area of work for Turbine mainly or her specialty of giving us a protected (and yes restricted,) but actual place of expression for our wanting to whoop it up now called a Bragging Forum.

Thank you Tolero for giving us this forum bragging rights option. Before, any bragging was cause for infraction, so we appreciate the good faith of this...while we patiently wait for Mod 6 which has nothing to do who moderates what in the forums.

(Gasp, I'm not the poking at it with a stick person?....I have changed!)