PDA

View Full Version : The More Content I need is Crafting



HFGfeather
11-28-2007, 02:19 PM
Everyone hollers more content thinking they want quests. The quests are here, that content is here, what is missing is a reason for needing to do that content. So they stuck in Favor for the reason. That was ok but still a little lame. No ill respect to the Devs intended.

I have a level 14 Wizard and there are quests that I have never done. I can't get a group to do most of them they only want to do the quests that give them......
1. the most favor or
2. the most XP or
3. the best rewards or
4. the most loot.

5. please add items to craft with

Just trying to get a group together to do quests that no one wants to do is a royal pain. That is where Crafting could be a great help. Crafting could really open up the game. There could be rare gems in thoes forgotten quests that would make a super sweet weapon. Ya, just have to find it. Now don't make the mistake that EQ did they put the Wizards stuff in one dungeon and the fighter stuff in another dungeon. My Wizard could never get the fighters to go for the wizard stuff for me. I always had to go after the fighter stuff for them. Farming for stuff to make things is fun, or could be fun. I persponally have been praying for crafting to show up in DDO. It would really make the game fun for me. It would make the content great.

A reason to go see the unseen dungeons
One other way to do something about the unseen dungeons is to make a few of them special for a week then make a few more special for the next week. As in thoes are the only dungeons that will get a +1 loot for that week. Say 6 dungeons of various levels get +1 loot for a week. Now there are 2 reasons to go there one to get the loot and the other to get the rare Gems or rare stuff and normal stiuff for Crafting, that will drop more frequently that week.

I want Crafting please. I am down on bended knee.
Azari

Mercules
11-29-2007, 10:16 AM
Everyone hollers more content thinking they want quests. The quests are here, that content is here, what is missing is a reason for needing to do that content. So they stuck in Favor for the reason. That was ok but still a little lame. No ill respect to the Devs intended.

I have a level 14 Wizard and there are quests that I have never done. I can't get a group to do most of them they only want to do the quests that give them......
1. the most favor or
2. the most XP or
3. the best rewards or
4. the most loot.

5. please add items to craft with

Just trying to get a group together to do quests that no one wants to do is a royal pain. That is where Crafting could be a great help. Crafting could really open up the game. There could be rare gems in thoes forgotten quests that would make a super sweet weapon. Ya, just have to find it. Now don't make the mistake that EQ did they put the Wizards stuff in one dungeon and the fighter stuff in another dungeon. My Wizard could never get the fighters to go for the wizard stuff for me. I always had to go after the fighter stuff for them. Farming for stuff to make things is fun, or could be fun. I persponally have been praying for crafting to show up in DDO. It would really make the game fun for me. It would make the content great.

A reason to go see the unseen dungeons
One other way to do something about the unseen dungeons is to make a few of them special for a week then make a few more special for the next week. As in thoes are the only dungeons that will get a +1 loot for that week. Say 6 dungeons of various levels get +1 loot for a week. Now there are 2 reasons to go there one to get the loot and the other to get the rare Gems or rare stuff and normal stiuff for Crafting, that will drop more frequently that week.

I want Crafting please. I am down on bended knee.
Azari

Just so I understand this....


Having to do runs for the various collectibles needed to get raid ready or some of the neato items you can get now is not good enough? Now we have to add another virtual chore on top of grinding for things in a certain quest? No thanks.

Dane_McArdy
11-29-2007, 10:23 AM
Crafting is coming.

Soon TM.

ehondajim
11-29-2007, 10:30 AM
Personally. I'm not into crafting so much. I tried it in EQ2 and wasn't impressed, same for WOW. I'm not downing it, it is so far not my thing. I would love to see crafting show up in DDO, I think it willbring another exciting aspect to the game and maybe help our fledgling yet out of control economy. However so far Turbine has remained semi true to D&D rules and standards. Below are a few links to crafting in PnP D&D if they could make it close to this, cost wise, check wise, material wise and XP cost wise it would be somethign completely different than all the other crafting out there and still true to the D&D roots of DDO.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Craft_(SRD_Skill))

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#itemCreationFeats

Flicken
11-29-2007, 10:35 AM
I predict crafting will be implemented in mod seven.......


TEEN :p

I kid, I kid.

I am not a crafter type person but I am looking forward to see how they get it in the DDO setting.

Falco_Easts
11-29-2007, 03:51 PM
I just hope when they bring it in they put a lot of thought on the mechanics of it. If crafting becomes a staple of the game and something that needs to be done to keep up I will be cancelling. Just a fun pastime within the game that is optional but not really needed would be the way to go IMO.

Aesop
11-29-2007, 03:59 PM
I just want crating to be useful and look like DnD crafting... not MMO crafting... cause MMO crafting... stinks... a lot. Its one of the major reasons I became bored with WoW... that and the linear Character Creation that had limited to no options.

EQ2 was even worse because you had to do some craptacular combination of hoop jumping to even succeed at all.


Aesop

muffinlad
11-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Crafting has to have real impact in the game, without unbalancing the game for the casual gamer. Tall order.

My personal observations/ideas-

1) With the turn ins we have, this is already a "limited" form of crafting as I see it in other games. We collect things, and turn them in, either for a random (not as fun) result or a fixed result (more fun, and typically harder to do). Yes, not exactly "CRAFTING"....but a near parallel.

2) Most people got turned off by lower level collectable due to the inability to choose the reward, and the seeming limited value of the rewards presented. The Collectable bags have helped a bit in this.

3) Gems have a reflected value that is consistently under-rewarded when they are turned in for gold. The Gem collection pouches have helped this a bit, but lack of easy sale has hindered its use. Making it so that Gems translate into GOLD, one for one, during a crafting process will make them much more valuable and useful. So, if you have a cost of 50000 gp for a crafted items, paying for that in “Gems" or in Gold would make sense.

4) Magic Users (Wizards, Sorcs, Clerics, etc) have been building new magic items in D+D nearly since the game began. I say nearly because the old Tan cover of Monsters and Treasure (Circa 1975) was less than clear about it, but Magic Users building magic items is a pretty set part of our "culture". As such, do I think that Wizards should be able to make a "+2 Holy Burst Cold Iron Khopesh of Pure Good, rr Drow". Yes, as long as they invent the process, discover the recipe, have the training, etc. I do. With the huge stockpiles of magic items that exist in the world today, I really don’t have an issue with players adding more, as long as cost and sacrifice are involved.

a) You should be able to use the Books, Tomes, Manuals, Magic Rune papers, etc. that we find as collectables to develop the mystic formulas for various magic items that you would want to build. I would actually let any class do this, as long as they had the collectables to guide them, etc, and would be broken down into three parts.

- Knowledge, Satisfied by Collectables, or a specific Feat, or Enhancement)
- Materials, Satisfied by other Collectables, magic items sacrificed during the process, and cash-gems or gold
- Time, Satisfied by “Construction time out of game”, A high Repair Score (for lack of a better skill) or yet more gold/gems.

b) The Artifice/Engineer Feat could be available to those who wish to have the Knowledge portion, with Enhancements to build out improvements to Materials and Time for those who really love building things. This is a change from having “Artificer” as a class in the Ebberon setting.

I have no special insight as to how Crafting will, eventually be added to the game, but I hope some of these ideas are considered.

Regards,

muffinficer

Falco_Easts
11-29-2007, 05:46 PM
I just had this image of a halfling sweat shop under the streets of Stormreach run by plat farmers using crafting to get their products. :)

aldan
11-30-2007, 09:08 AM
Go buy a jewelers kit or some leather from your local tannery and start making armor, that is real crafting. Still dont understand why someone would want to craft ingame. But hey, we all have our things that make us happy.

Bring on the "Thelanis Sip-N-Knit Thursdays"!

LOL

CDevil
11-30-2007, 12:26 PM
Yes, as long as they invent the process, discover the recipe, have the training, etc. I do. With the huge stockpiles of magic items that exist in the world today, I really don’t have an issue with players adding more, as long as cost and sacrifice are involved.

a) You should be able to use the Books, Tomes, Manuals, Magic Rune papers, etc. that we find as collectables to develop the mystic formulas for various magic items that you would want to build. I would actually let any class do this, as long as they had the collectables to guide them, etc, and would be broken down into three parts.

- Knowledge, Satisfied by Collectables, or a specific Feat, or Enhancement)
- Materials, Satisfied by other Collectables, magic items sacrificed during the process, and cash-gems or gold
- Time, Satisfied by “Construction time out of game”, A high Repair Score (for lack of a better skill) or yet more gold/gems.

b) The Artifice/Engineer Feat could be available to those who wish to have the Knowledge portion, with Enhancements to build out improvements to Materials and Time for those who really love building things. This is a change from having “Artificer” as a class in the Ebberon setting.

Now, THIS has some interesting possibilities.

Several arguments have been made as to why crafting is a bad idea. Let me start by answering those.

1. The argument was made that crafting would be unfair because technically only caster classes get the crafting feats and spells necessary to build magical items.
ANSWER: Who says it should be so restricted? Simply make some benefits/effects exclusive to certain classes. This would encourage player interaction to create items.

2. The argument was made that item crafting would allow unreasonably powerful items into the game.
ANSWER: How exactly do you define "Unreasonable"? A level 1 fighter running around with a +5 vorpal sword is unreasonable, yes, but also impossible because of the level limits placed on items based on their power. We've got a lot of powerful stuff floating around out there as it is. Crafting will simply allow players to have a choice in the equipment they wield, and saving or trading for necessary materials would give players something new to strive for.

So where do we go from here? Let me shake things up a little by building on these ideas.

FORMULAS:

Obviously, you need some kind of design in order to create an item. First, break up these designs into groups based on classes:

Combat classes (Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin) would use BLUEPRINTS to produce heavy weapons, armor, and helmets.
Sneak/Trickster classes (Bard, Ranger, Rogue) would use SCHEMATICS to produce lighter armor, bows, and light weapons.
Caster Classes (Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard) would use FORMULAS to produce wands, staves, and robes.

Naturally, there would be some reasonable crossover in certain areas, like allowing Clerics to produce heavy armor or Fighters to produce bows. The most powerful possibilities, however, could be reserved for specific groupings.

Other items - boots, capes, amulets, trinkets, etc. - could be generalized (with some possible exceptions) and produced by any class using MODELS.

Where do you find this information, you ask? How would you use it?

The first answer is, they would occur in two places: random drops in chests, and random availability in shops.

The second answer is, it would work like scribing a scroll. All players would get a new entry on their character info sheet, like the spell list entry for casters. A player who gains a bit of info he can use would scribe it into his "construct book", which would then make it available for use. Combine bits of info together, and you can produce your desired item. Info could even be added to provide restrictions to an item, allowing its level restriction to be lowered.

Next up, how do we construct these <insert favorite expletive here> things?

Well, people have been griping for a long time about how the collectables should have more value. No reason some of them can't be converted for use as raw materials. Next, create a new list of collectable items that can be randomly found on killed monsters. Some of these "creature parts" might only be available when attacked or killed with certain weapons or spells.

(*cough - trap the soul - cough*)

The actual construction would be done using expendable tools, the type of which would depend on the item being made and the power of the item.

General enhancements could be created to allow bonuses to item creation. Say, an enhancement allowing the possibility of a "creation critical" which would cause the created item to be even more powerful than originally planned, or a "thrifty" enhancement that allowed a player to use slightly less money or materials to achieve their creation.

I'm sure whatever the Devs have planned is bound to be interesting, I just figured I'd throw in my 2 coppers' worth.

BlueLightBandit
12-01-2007, 09:48 PM
I just had this image of a halfling sweat shop under the streets of Stormreach run by plat farmers using crafting to get their products. :)

Nothing to see here, move along.

(Psst, dude... what do you thinks been going on in the twelve for so long? And yes, that's where all the craptastic mismatched items come from too, +1 intel +3 haggle, or vicious light maces of backstabbing, ftw)

Vorn
12-01-2007, 11:25 PM
I'm hoping they go with the way it's outlined in the PH and DMG. That would seem a pretty simple way to go as there is already a feat respec option in the game for any folks who wish to craft. There's always the option of the artificer class as well. The xp costs might have to be played with a bit due to the enormous amount of xp available in the game? I could see searching for recipes for items being as important as obtaining the ingredients. Would also wonder what the % chance of miscasting or mis-creating would be...the market could be flooded with 'of deception' items.:p

Would also be interesting to see item repair as well.

Not sure the time needed would be handled, but I haven't played other games to compare.

Hvymetal
12-02-2007, 07:38 AM
I agree that when it is implimented I would hope to see a more balanced approach that included more classes in the crafting process.

Anvalin
12-02-2007, 10:50 PM
Everyone has some great ideas as to how to implement crafting. I've even posted an article on here a long time ago on how to use collectibles to implement crafting. It was long and drawn out and didn't have much popularity. Everyone here seems to have good ways to do it, but not an easy way for the player to do it themselves. So I say we take it away from the plyer themselves. Let them find the recipe, find the items, and then take it to an NPC to have it created. Put a wait time on the item just like in D&D where you have to take time to craft it. This will eliminate any problem with Xp Loss, Feat Reassignment, and Quickly Flooding the World with all kinds of items. This will also help to eliminate the farmers from mass marketing items. Or at least as quickly as what they would otherwise. And make a diffenet NPC for each item just like the vendors. Then the houses will have their own proffesions as they do now. You could also have quests to unlock higher level crafters. Everyone wins. No downtime spent other than a quick stop in and a quick stop back.

HFGfeather
12-07-2007, 01:18 AM
Wow! I see some excelent ideas here. All of you have put in some great ideas. Thank you all even thoes who don't care for crafting. Now that being said I just noticed something else in game. I just realized that this would seem to be a form of Crafting.

The new bags to collect things in for the new Raid in Necropolis a Shield Frame, a Sigil Frame, a Tome Binding, a Tapestry Pouch, all with stack size 100 and 8 slots for items that make something. Now granted some of these items are rather hard to come by. The quests are not the easiest in the world of DDO. But it seems that crafting of sorts is sneaking in on us while we sit and debate about it. Now just how they entend to work in the Gems I don't have a clue but it will be exciting to see. For me at least.

You guys are right the random thing just doesn't work very well. Pretty disapointing most of the time. When I collect something I want it to be something I really wanted. I mean what WF wants to get a healing potion from the mushrooms. Get real!

I am afraid the random bound end loot didn't work very well either they just haven't figured it out yet. Who wants to do WW 10 times for a special item then jump in to Shan-to-Kor for another run of bad luck and so on with Delaras and CO6 then do the same with Tangleroot with the same dark cloud hanging over them. I actually deleted one of my32 point chars because she could not get the items she needed for her level. Like you guys said if it is done like DnD it will be sweet. Other wise you get the picture.

I guess I dream of a fun and interesting crafting experience, With special Formulas to find and or create and stuff to make even if it takes some work and learning to do so. Nothing good happens without some work involved.
Azari