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Aranticus
11-24-2007, 12:52 AM
i was on my bard running the reaver raid today. a +3 con tome dropped for me and i auctioned it. the highest bidder (a bard) got it with a bid of a full set of tome pieces and 100k pp and the tome was promptly transferred to him. once outside, a trade window came out with 2 tomes (both same), no plat. i rejected it saying we agreed a full set and he stated he only agreed all his tomes. and before i could reply, he logged off and logged in another toon. i sent tells to a guildie of his, who was in the same raid, to help me ask him to complete his part of the deal. at the same time i saw a barb guildie running circles infront of me which i later found out from a friend that its his alt. one hour after the raid, during which i sent tells to some of his guildies, the entire guild either when annon or logged. i suspect this is yet another cheat....

as of now, i have only recieved 1 tome piece, supposely from another alt of his.

mr bard, if you are reading this, you have an obligation to fulfill.

to kyberians, if you want to know his identity, pm me

:mad:

Frzblaster
11-24-2007, 02:24 AM
Thus another reason why my guild runs with "No trading expect for raid item for raid item" ruling. Seriously hope you get your rightful items there Aranticus. Its a matter of principal now

Ninety
11-24-2007, 07:21 AM
I'll definitely put him on my do not group with list, as well as spread the word to do the same with all the people I run with.

Aspenor
11-24-2007, 07:37 AM
I'll definitely put him on my do not group with list, as well as spread the word to do the same with all the people I run with.

ditto.

That's ridiculous.

Then again, I'm never offering any tomes for trade in a raid. I'm eating them.

Aranticus
11-24-2007, 08:46 AM
Frzblaster, i've had trades and traded raid loot items and all the previous players have been honorable and trusting. just 2 hrs after that incident, i traded in the napkin but as i did not have sufficient plat on me, i told that player to wait while i log my other toon. trade was completed and both were happy. i'm not angry abt the lost of loot but more for the fact that most of the players who knew of this incident suspected that he did not even live up to his claims. the other bidders would be angry as well as their true bids lost to a fake. but one thing you are right, its now a matter of principle.

Aspenor, that toon in question is my hagglebot and thus did not need the tome (cept +3 cha) and hence it would be a waste. win-win situation for me at that time was to trade it to someone who need it and i get something in return.

to all, thanks for the support. thanks to the people in game who tried to help make my day better. you guys (excluding the offender) are what make ddo special.... we are like a group in the alcoholic annon, supporting each other.

just an update on the issue. the offender is no longer a member of the guild he was in. an officer of his guild contacted me and helped me to reach him. apparently, he squelched me and went annon (together with his friend which was in the same guild) during the time i was online. it is not known if he was dismissed from the guild or he quit. but confirmed hes guildless at the moment for he seeked to join another guild as an officer of that guild informed me during a pug dragon raid

EdsanDarkbane
11-24-2007, 10:04 AM
Anything i can do to help i will shug.

Give shugar a fair shake on the trade anonymous bard.

nbhs275
11-24-2007, 10:27 AM
i was on my bard running the reaver raid today. a +3 con tome dropped for me and i auctioned it. the highest bidder (a bard) got it with a bid of a full set of tome pieces and 100k pp and the tome was promptly transferred to him. once outside, a trade window came out with 2 tomes (both same), no plat. i rejected it saying we agreed a full set and he stated he only agreed all his tomes. and before i could reply, he logged off and logged in another toon. i sent tells to a guildie of his, who was in the same raid, to help me ask him to complete his part of the deal. at the same time i saw a barb guildie running circles infront of me which i later found out from a friend that its his alt. one hour after the raid, during which i sent tells to some of his guildies, the entire guild either when annon or logged. i suspect this is yet another cheat....

as of now, i have only recieved 1 tome piece, supposely from another alt of his.

mr bard, if you are reading this, you have an obligation to fulfill.

to kyberians, if you want to know his identity, pm me

:mad:

Ok, heres the real story.

First, he didnt come into the main chamber, died, and basically got 4 free chests. Next, i was the only bidder on the tome. Third, what i offered him was 400k plat and All the tome pieces i have, NOT all the tome pieces aka 1-8. He then responded that he only wanted 100k plat and the tome pieces. He never specified before he sent it over that he wanted all pieces 1-8, because i would of had to decline.

Second, when i got outside i gave him the 2 tome pieces i had on that character, and the 100k plat. I sent one piece i had on another mule, and logged off before checking another mule that had another piece(which i also have sent him now) because of a series of threatening tell he sent to my friend over this.

So now i gave him what i told him i would, and because of how harshly he has skewed the story for posting here and how he treated my guild member, i dont think ill further sate his greed. IF he had been good about it, I would try and rectify it with more plat or something else we could agree on. But because he couldnt remain civil long enough for me to get him what i offered him, he wont get anything more.

nbhs275
11-24-2007, 10:35 AM
Frzblaster, i've had trades and traded raid loot items and all the previous players have been honorable and trusting. just 2 hrs after that incident, i traded in the napkin but as i did not have sufficient plat on me, i told that player to wait while i log my other toon. trade was completed and both were happy. i'm not angry abt the lost of loot but more for the fact that most of the players who knew of this incident suspected that he did not even live up to his claims. the other bidders would be angry as well as their true bids lost to a fake. but one thing you are right, its now a matter of principle.

Aspenor, that toon in question is my hagglebot and thus did not need the tome (cept +3 cha) and hence it would be a waste. win-win situation for me at that time was to trade it to someone who need it and i get something in return.

to all, thanks for the support. thanks to the people in game who tried to help make my day better. you guys (excluding the offender) are what make ddo special.... we are like a group in the alcoholic annon, supporting each other.

just an update on the issue. the offender is no longer a member of the guild he was in. an officer of his guild contacted me and helped me to reach him. apparently, he squelched me and went annon (together with his friend which was in the same guild) during the time i was online. it is not known if he was dismissed from the guild or he quit. but confirmed hes guildless at the moment for he seeked to join another guild as an officer of that guild informed me during a pug dragon raid

This would have to be a lie, seeing i have not even logged back to my bard yet, and all of my toons are officers in their respective guilds. My friend didnt go anon, he changed characters to stop your threatening tells. Dont drag him into this. Also, you may of been talking to the leader of "the free companions" in which case, i did ask how you might join them, but never said i was planning on joining them. Noone helped you to reach me, as i wasnt logged on much later then sending the first piece from my mule.

Edit: Also, im not going to squelch or annon on you, because i know that i completed my end of the bargain, and am not afraid of your harrasment. Just because you didnt read what i wrote and thought you where going to get more then i promised, is no reason to both lie on the forums and harrass my guildmate. And as i said, if you had acted civil and waited, i would of given you what i promised, and given you something else to make it seem somehow more "fair" to you.

Aspenor
11-24-2007, 10:39 AM
Hehe and the other side of the story....:cool:
/munches popcorn

Strakeln
11-24-2007, 10:44 AM
Hehe and the other side of the story....:cool:
/munches popcornKhyber is on FIRE! WOOT!

Nefahrin
11-24-2007, 10:51 AM
This is what happens when people get greedy.
In my guild, if we can't use a raid item, we put it up for a roll amongst those that can use.
I personally find it in poor taste when someone tries to get the world for a bound raid item.

There are two people in this story that I don't want to group with, the Greedy bugger who
says " I can't use it, What'll you give me for it?", and the person that doesn't follow through on
a trade.

With that said, if what the second poster said about it being a miss communication is true, I'm
more inclined to avoid grouping with the Greedy SOB.

Fennario
11-24-2007, 10:55 AM
Maybe you should have specified how many tome pieces you had? I could see where saying, "I'll give you all my tome pieces bro" could be mistaken for, "I'll give you all the tome pieces bro." I don't know as I wasn't there, but something sounds shady. I would have went out of my way to make it clear that I had 3 or 4 tome pieces to offer.


First, he didnt come into the main chamber, died, and basically got 4 free chests.

Not sure why this is important. Pretty much anyone who isn't a caster, a healer, or tanking big and ugly gets 4 free chests on most of the Reaver raids I've been on.

nbhs275
11-24-2007, 11:11 AM
Maybe you should have specified how many tome pieces you had? I could see where saying, "I'll give you all my tome pieces bro" could be mistaken for, "I'll give you all the tome pieces bro." I don't know as I wasn't there, but something sounds shady. I would have went out of my way to make it clear that I had 3 or 4 tome pieces to offer.



Not sure why this is important. Pretty much anyone who isn't a caster, a healer, or tanking big and ugly gets 4 free chests on most of the Reaver raids I've been on.

true, though it depends, i have had fighters who get charges and run around cursing ellies, making them easy fodder for casters, of fighters with WoP taking out ellies at breakneck speed. I have also seen those fighters who just stand against the back wall for a smoke.

Either way i think we , fortina and I, have settled this.

Aranticus
11-24-2007, 11:27 AM
couple of clarifications

i rejected the tomes and plat as i wanted it all in one shot. this would make things much simple. i came here only 1+ hr after the said event and even updated it accordingly. i had stated that i'll wait at the bank. you could have sent a tell to me, prolly an oversight on both sides here

i did not threaten your friend, i asked him to help me pass the message and if he took offense to that, i apologise.

you are not the only bidder, there were 2 others and i do not encourage excessive bidding by telling the bidders what the outstanding bid is. you can say that i tendered my loot out. if i were that greedy, i'd just keep posting the most favorable bid to start a war.

did i get 4 chests free? in a way yes i did. however, it wasnt also mentioned that i lagged just before they ran out and when my connection came back i was in the dead room. even when i was in there i also attempted to snap. if i really had wanted a free ride, i'd have simply waited for the anti magic to come so i can go to the blue door.

Nefahrin, please get your facts right. my bard CAN use the tome. he had not taken any con tomes at all. i have given away raid loot before. stuff that i am NOT likely to use. last week i gave away the delving suit and treason. i could have auctioned it away but i did not.

update on the situation:

a new deal was made. since nbhs275 has only 4 pieces and not what he claimed, we settled on a total of 8 pieces and 150k pp. i have recieved 4 tomes and the play. the other 4 will be sent to me as and when he gets them.

bobbysmooth
11-24-2007, 12:57 PM
I have read all the posts regarding this matter and come to the conclusion you are both knuckleheads. First thing, trading raid loot in pugs is very risky to say the least. Accepting the terms " all the tomes i have " is absurd on your part. If you conduct your daily life like this i will by your car for all the money i have in my right pocket, no wait my left pocket you choose. Not very smart. Secondly if your the sneaky one who said I will trade you " all the tomes I have " you are quilty as well. This is a trick people use on some who are either too trusting or not very bright to try to GET OVER on them. Do you want the money in my right or left pocket. You were unclear on your offer. Did you do this on purpose? After reading YOUR post and the way you clearly state thats what YOU said,I would have to say yea, you did it on purpose, for the purpose, of getting over. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

Staedtler
11-24-2007, 03:48 PM
This thread is worthless without chat logs.

Ghoste
11-24-2007, 04:33 PM
This thread is worthless without chat logs.
Good point. Anyone take screenies?

/sits back down and continues munching popcorn.

Nefahrin
11-24-2007, 04:52 PM
Nefahrin, please get your facts right. my bard CAN use the tome. he had not taken any con tomes at all. i have given away raid loot before. stuff that i am NOT likely to use. last week i gave away the delving suit and treason. i could have auctioned it away but i did not.

It doesn't matter, The way this reads, Greed was the motivation. If you can use it, then why not use? Simple. Greed.
Glad I've got your name, as I know another to avoid in groups.

That's why in my guild, we won't let people make deals like this. It's also these types of actions that make people despise PUGs,
and avoid them like the Plague.

Staedtler
11-24-2007, 06:58 PM
It doesn't matter, The way this reads, Greed was the motivation. If you can use it, then why not use? Simple. Greed.
Glad I've got your name, as I know another to avoid in groups.

That's why in my guild, we won't let people make deals like this. It's also these types of actions that make people despise PUGs,
and avoid them like the Plague.

He's already explained why he didn't use the tome: the character is a hagglebot. I see using a tome that will give no benefit to the character to be an act of larger greed.

Also, you appear to have mind reading skills. Does this mean psionics have been introduced to DDO?

Hakushi
11-24-2007, 07:14 PM
I have read all the posts regarding this matter and come to the conclusion you are both knuckleheads. First thing, trading raid loot in pugs is very risky to say the least. Accepting the terms " all the tomes i have " is absurd on your part. If you conduct your daily life like this i will by your car for all the money i have in my right pocket, no wait my left pocket you choose. Not very smart. Secondly if your the sneaky one who said I will trade you " all the tomes I have " you are quilty as well. This is a trick people use on some who are either too trusting or not very bright to try to GET OVER on them. Do you want the money in my right or left pocket. You were unclear on your offer. Did you do this on purpose? After reading YOUR post and the way you clearly state thats what YOU said,I would have to say yea, you did it on purpose, for the purpose, of getting over. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

QFT

My personnal opinion on the matter, I would just start to thanks Turbine for such a great way to distribute the raid loot, but that's mostly off topic. I personally think it's bad to trade raid loot and I personally never trade my raid loot assigned to me. If I don't need it, I put a line and the other people in the raid roll for it, for free, I do not ask and do not want anything in return, that loot could have been assigned to anyone else. In the current situation, he should just have put a line for others to roll for it, or just use it, more hps and better saves is good for everyone, no matter who.

I've given away raid loots assigned to me regularly and I never objected to anyone using a tome they got in their chest, either the wizard with a str or con tome, or a fighter with a wis tome, I'm happy for them and their good roll on the loot, and type in the chat a big "Congrats" with a smilie. If I'm in a raid and a good tome drops, and it would be good for me, I would like to roll, but if it's auctionned, I will never bid because I disagree with that, but that's me, and that opinion does not include anyone else.

Another point, in some way, we all have 4 free chests in the raid, but the loot is not based on participation, but on completion. Who we are to decide who participated enough, not enough or what else. The system allows 12 people, and the quest dosn't require 12 people, the chances of raid loot is much higher with a high amount of people, but each person in the raid have the same chances of raid loot assigned to them, no matter the number of people, it's the total group who gets more chances then more chances to have one reassigned.

But that brings to an essential point, when doing trades, if it's not completely clear on both sides, it's an open door to problems, and when doing trades like that, a trusted person by both sides to be the third in the trade and "moderate" it is always the best choice, nobody will scam someone else when a friend or trusted person is helping by moderating the trade. The person should be neutral or a friend to both sides. No hard feelings on both sides, I wouldn't have any problems to team and raid with each or both of you at any moment, but I see this as a consequence of the oh so great loot system we have.

To finish, I'm glad both sides have come to an agreement and sorted it out, a good discussion is always the best way to solve things and avoid more problems.

Hvymetal
11-25-2007, 06:44 AM
To finish, I'm glad both sides have come to an agreement and sorted it out, a good discussion is always the best way to solve things and avoid more problems.
I would also like to add, that although I see the reasoning behind the original posting I don't necissarily agree with it. That good discussion is always best done off the public forums..... Now where's that popcorn?

Revenant15
11-25-2007, 07:14 AM
haven't we discussed this before. I usually don't get into things, but it was decided that what people do with their loot, raid or otherwise, is their business. If he decided to trade it then thats on him. The real issue was the shady deal, which sorry, but i agree you should of told how many ahead of time. I'm glad to see that you guys managed to fix the problem yourselves before it got any worse. Everybody else, waah! If it had happened to you, you'd have complained too. [Sarcasm toggle on] A player was being greddy with their loot[Sarcasm toggle off]. If the person thought it was too much they wouldn't have taken the trade.

Svetelana
11-25-2007, 07:09 PM
Unless I know you, there is no way I would click "trade" without seeing the goods in the other window......

As they say, "Nuf said" :)

Armathia
11-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Darnit u guys ate alll the popcorn!!!

Shaamis
11-28-2007, 03:19 PM
it boils down to trusting who you roll with, and learning who you are playing with asap. I traded raid loot for a person in a raid, and we went to his bank, he pulled out the item, and gave it to me. If you part ways after the raid, of course it wont be as fast, but even if ai had an inkling he was dishonest, I would have traded it to someone i felt trustworthy.

When I was on Aundair, there was a member who screwed up the trade!/no trade. event, with his shennaniggans. I know he has changeed his name to avoid persecution, but to this day I stillavoid him, because of his moment of indescetion.

Let that be a lesson to those who try to cheat other players out. eventually this MMO with be a single player game for you.

Murderface
11-28-2007, 03:24 PM
i was on my bard running the reaver raid today. a +3 con tome dropped for me and i auctioned it. the highest bidder (a bard) got it with a bid of a full set of tome pieces and 100k pp and the tome was promptly transferred to him. once outside, a trade window came out with 2 tomes (both same), no plat. i rejected it saying we agreed a full set and he stated he only agreed all his tomes. and before i could reply, he logged off and logged in another toon. i sent tells to a guildie of his, who was in the same raid, to help me ask him to complete his part of the deal. at the same time i saw a barb guildie running circles infront of me which i later found out from a friend that its his alt. one hour after the raid, during which i sent tells to some of his guildies, the entire guild either when annon or logged. i suspect this is yet another cheat....

as of now, i have only recieved 1 tome piece, supposely from another alt of his.

mr bard, if you are reading this, you have an obligation to fulfill.

to kyberians, if you want to know his identity, pm me

:mad:

please pm me the name so if im on my cleric ill promise to raise and only throw his stone in the lava

nbhs275
11-28-2007, 05:21 PM
please pm me the name so if im on my cleric ill promise to raise and only throw his stone in the lava

someone didnt read the thread at all

cardmj1
12-04-2007, 12:12 AM
I agree with Raika on this one. I will roll but never bid on an item. If I get something that I don't need or want, I let it roll to WHOEVER wants to roll on it. As for who does the work and who doesn't, who cares. Everyone has strengths and weakness in this game and everyone has a job to do. If he died, he died. I am more than positive you have died a few times yourself. Learn from it and get over it.

And as for you Hvymetal, stop hogging the all the popcorn. Man! You warforges gobble up all my mana and now the popcorn.

Hvymetal
12-04-2007, 06:52 AM
I agree with Raika on this one. I will roll but never bid on an item. If I get something that I don't need or want, I let it roll to WHOEVER wants to roll on it. As for who does the work and who doesn't, who cares. Everyone has strengths and weakness in this game and everyone has a job to do. If he died, he died. I am more than positive you have died a few times yourself. Learn from it and get over it.

And as for you Hvymetal, stop hogging the all the popcorn. Man! You warforges gobble up all my mana and now the popcorn.Popcorn helps us operate at optimum performance:) I'll see if I can spare some....

Riot
12-04-2007, 07:58 AM
<insert guild raiding benefits here>

Lo_Pan
12-04-2007, 09:09 AM
<insert guild raiding benefits here>

Quoted for truth

artvan_delet
12-04-2007, 09:16 AM
Disclosure: I'm on sarlona. But wow, a +3 con tome for 1 mil gold and 2 tome pieces. So +3 con tome for about 3 mil gold. What a deal! What a steal. (Not commenting on the trade, just what the tome sold for, so far.)

SimonB
12-04-2007, 10:29 AM
This whole thread is fairly ridiculous. I gave away, yes gave away, a +3 con tome that i pulled at the weekend to a complete stranger on a roll open to everyone. (I had already pulled a +3 with Simonr).

I have 5 toons I can run the reaver with and I have not yet seen any auctioning off of loot, everyone has been happy to trade items on roll a d100.

Aranticus
12-21-2007, 02:47 AM
This whole thread is fairly ridiculous. I gave away, yes gave away, a +3 con tome that i pulled at the weekend to a complete stranger on a roll open to everyone. (I had already pulled a +3 with Simonr).

I have 5 toons I can run the reaver with and I have not yet seen any auctioning off of loot, everyone has been happy to trade items on roll a d100.

i guess u did not read everything or you would have seen that i have yet to use a con tome on that toon and that it would be a win win situation (IMO) in a trade which would benefit both parties. i'd have also posted that i have given away raid loot too. stuff i cant use immediately goes into santa's bag. so far in most raids i've been in, tomes are the stuff which frequently get traded and hence i did the same. previous 2 tomes i got, got offers even before i seen what i got. maybe not for you, but thats the norm for me.

for all,

an update on the situation, i've recieved slightly 1/2 of what is agreed upon. there is still an outstanding 4 tome pieces. i have yet recieved anything since then

Bunker
12-21-2007, 05:33 AM
I read this whole thread and just had to respond.

Greed will givey ou the backhand if you let it. It seems that instead of just throwing a raid item up for roll, or keeping it yourself, lets try to cash in and maybe make a quick buck. Greed will get you in trouble.

I swapped a player one +6 wis necklace for another, because they were both rr. He said in a forum private message, just send it in the mail to me, and I will send you mine. Ha! Like anyone with 1/2 a brain should do that. In a perfect world, yes, we should all be honest, especially about something as trivial as a game, but that isnt' how ppl roll these days. Deception and Greed take the drivers seat while honestly is shotgun. If you can't see the trade in the window, then it is your own fault.

I've pulled a +3 str tome in the reaver, and I gave it to a class that would get better use of it(seeing as i was on my caster), but I have also been in a raid when a pally pulls a +3 int, and he only let me and one other wizard roll on the tome. Being on both ends of the stick, why not just pass on the good fortune, living proof here that what you give you will get in the future. Try to make a quick buck and see how much you end up paying.

Aranticus
12-21-2007, 07:19 AM
I read this whole thread and just had to respond.

Greed will givey ou the backhand if you let it. It seems that instead of just throwing a raid item up for roll, or keeping it yourself, lets try to cash in and maybe make a quick buck. Greed will get you in trouble.

I swapped a player one +6 wis necklace for another, because they were both rr. He said in a forum private message, just send it in the mail to me, and I will send you mine. Ha! Like anyone with 1/2 a brain should do that. In a perfect world, yes, we should all be honest, especially about something as trivial as a game, but that isnt' how ppl roll these days. Deception and Greed take the drivers seat while honestly is shotgun. If you can't see the trade in the window, then it is your own fault.

I've pulled a +3 str tome in the reaver, and I gave it to a class that would get better use of it(seeing as i was on my caster), but I have also been in a raid when a pally pulls a +3 int, and he only let me and one other wizard roll on the tome. Being on both ends of the stick, why not just pass on the good fortune, living proof here that what you give you will get in the future. Try to make a quick buck and see how much you end up paying.

greed? before you come around giving your 2cp worth, do find out the facts. ask around in kyhber (formerly riedra) and many will tell you the sort of person i am. ask the players who i trade with to see/hear for yourself. i've been in trades where i've sent a load of pp in the mail. i've also been sent loads of pp thru mail. yes i do agree that this is not a perfect world so its only right where we highlight these shady players to make the world less gray.

as to passing the buck..... who says i dun? in fact i just gave cloudburst to a tank today. and again, before u call anyone names, do check out if u have the basis to do so..... :cool:

Strakeln
12-21-2007, 12:17 PM
Greed will givey ou the backhand if you let it. It seems that instead of just throwing a raid item up for roll, or keeping it yourself, lets try to cash in and maybe make a quick buck.I'm gonna poke my nose in here real quick and stick up for Aranticus. Enough of this greed talk, you're barking up the wrong tree.

If you wanted a con tome and could use it on the character you pulled it with, but someone made you a really nice offer, putting the item up for roll is not a reasonable option. Naturally, it would have to be a killer offer to convince you to give up the tome. This is not greed.

Greed is when you don't need the item, and you try to get people to start bidding on it instead of rolling.

Talish
12-21-2007, 01:04 PM
I have to stick up for Aranticus as well. He is one of few players I know where you can make a trade with him through the mail and be guaranteed not to be ripped off. He honours his deals and is not greedy. The deals are always fair sometimes less than what you expected to pay.

Vizzini
12-21-2007, 01:23 PM
They are talking about loot that is bound in a chest, it can be traded in the chest.. The Contract was all verbal before he transferred ownership to the highest bidder.. It's very risky, and not something I would do with someone I didn't already know and or trust.


Unless I know you, there is no way I would click "trade" without seeing the goods in the other window......

As they say, "Nuf said" :)

Litz
12-21-2007, 01:33 PM
/sticks head in the sand

I didn't see anything or know anything. I would think it ******** but who am I to say so in the condition I'm in? :D

unionyes
12-21-2007, 03:10 PM
It is very difficult to cheat an honest man.

That being said, and all discussion of the terms or advisability of trading aside, you gotta be certain each party knows what the deal is. If someone offered me something that I thought was too good to be true, I would for sure confirm it (you mean a tome for each stat, thats seven tomes in total, right, and the plat on top of that? Just want to make sure here.....), rather than grab it quick before he changes his mind.

If the terms of the trade were unbalanced, an honest player would have said dude, are you sure you want to make this trade? Do you know the value of what you have on the table here? IMHO, if you jump quick on an unbalanced trade before the other side comes to its senses, that isn't much better than failing to follow through on an agreed upon deal. If a deal of any kind doesn't have equity for both sides, a firm understanding of what is on the table without deception or trying to slide something past the other party, and closure, then it isn't a good deal at all.

Thats why I just give stuff away for free. I always get back what I am asking for.

Beherit_Baphomar
12-21-2007, 03:11 PM
Hmmm.

Interesting...

Bunker
12-21-2007, 03:12 PM
greed? before you come around giving your 2cp worth, do find out the facts. ask around in kyhber (formerly riedra) and many will tell you the sort of person i am. ask the players who i trade with to see/hear for yourself. i've been in trades where i've sent a load of pp in the mail. i've also been sent loads of pp thru mail. yes i do agree that this is not a perfect world so its only right where we highlight these shady players to make the world less gray.

as to passing the buck..... who says i dun? in fact i just gave cloudburst to a tank today. and again, before u call anyone names, do check out if u have the basis to do so..... :cool:

Before I call anyone names? I didn't. So read the posts correctly next time.

Usually ppl that have to defend themselves are the ones that felt they did something wrong. Chew on that thought a bit.

Aspenor
12-21-2007, 03:22 PM
Wow this thread is still alive and kickin?? Or did somebody cast thread ressurrection??

Beherit_Baphomar
12-21-2007, 03:25 PM
Wow this thread is still alive and kickin?? Or did somebody cast thread ressurrection??

The OP cast Raise Dead Issue, which can be seen in Post # 34.

Citymorg
12-21-2007, 03:31 PM
I was really hoping this had gone away. Nothing good could come of it.

zyp
12-21-2007, 03:52 PM
Well FWIW, I still like the new raid loot mechanic but this situation does highlight one of its down sides. Being able to trade a party member for something outside the quest is a nice - albeit risky - benefit to the system. I'm all for rolling on an item when I'm in a guild group but I like being able to turn a lucky pull into something useful when I'm in a PUG. I've traded raid loot for some nice stuff and have always been treated well in my trades. I'm aware of the risk, though, and will probably find myself in the OP's position at some time. I'm sorry it happened.

Based on what I've read here, I think nbhs275 made a rash decision and chose to act a bit disingenuously in his bargaining. The OP was a little over-trusting - as many of us would be based upon our past experiences - and felt quite rightly betrayed by a veiled 'gotcha' tactic. I'm glad to see that it resulted in this thread on the board. I hope everyone who reads this thread gets the message that:

1. trading this way carries risks and,
2. anything less than the most upstanding and honest bargaining will not be accepted quietly.

Beherit_Baphomar
12-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Oh and one other real quick comment.

Bind on leaving raid would solve all this commotion.

Aranticus
12-21-2007, 10:34 PM
The OP cast Raise Dead Issue, which can be seen in Post # 34.

check out my earlier threads. i told peeps that i'll update on the issue. in addition i was away for a holiday

for those who gave me support, in pm or in here, thank you.

for those who detracted from the issue, thanks too for the bump and hope that the same doesnt happen to you