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Rindalathar
11-23-2007, 09:44 AM
I know there was a thread awhile back regarding halfing throwers, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore. I wanted to try it out, but I know it can be a feel finesse job to get it right. Can someone post their halfing thrower build with a little advice on advancement progession, feats, enhancements, etc.?

thanks

nbhs275
11-23-2007, 09:58 AM
the builds where mostly batman halflings, but there is alot of different ways to do it. I would say general rules is to not take ranger, and to NOT forget strength. A fighter 6/ rogue 5/ paladin 3 is a decent build for this. Because you get alot of abilities that work well with the throwers, such as WS and SA, and alot of abilities that let you do other things, UMD, Saves, AC.

Aesop
11-23-2007, 10:02 AM
Which will be even better with the new Ranger Spell Ram's Might


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Sai Yung
Level 14 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(6 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 154
Spell Points: 25
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 20
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 14 18
Dexterity 20 28
Constitution 11 12
Intelligence 9 10
Wisdom 9 10
Charisma 9 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 7 11
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 0 1
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal -1 1
Hide 9 16
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 6 13
Listen -1 2
Move Silently 9 16
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 3 17
Swim 2 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a 20

Notable Equipment
Trinket: fail of

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse

Level 2 (Ranger)

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot

Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot

Level 7 (Ranger)

Level 8 (Fighter)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons

Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider

Level 11 (Ranger)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device

Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II



Rogue levels are just for the UMD and Evasion the Intelligence would not make for a capable rogue. But it can throw and stab people in the back real good ;)

Aesop

CaptGrim
11-27-2007, 11:02 PM
When I made this awhile back I did it just for fun, But I think it would be the most DPS you could squeeze out of a thrower build.

The Dragon marks help you from being completely useless, but the slow ranged attack speed would really be horrible end game.

May be a fun build to play but I haven't ( and probably won't) roll it.

All tho with the full BaB and the higher str. you should be able to melee ok, just then you wasted all your feats and most of your enhancements :D

With all the power 5 on throwers and +6 dex and str items you could just manage OK, IMHO.





Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 4

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 15 19 21
Dexterity 19 20 22
Constitution 14 15 16
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 8 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 6
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 5 8
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 7 24
Listen -1 5
Move Silently 5 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 5
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I

Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack I

Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I

Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark II

Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II

Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III

Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark III
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II

Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack II

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage III

studentx
02-05-2008, 02:46 AM
nice thread!

I was thinking about a halfling barbarian thrower build earlier today I'll try to post it later.

Muirtach
04-18-2008, 02:34 PM
I do not have the build stats on hand right now, but I went a bit different with mine and went heavy on rogue to boost my damage potential. Currently he is 11 rogue /4 fighter and planning on 1 level of monk for the saves boost (+3 to all is nice) and free shurikens. He has full rogue skills, Imp precise, rapid shot and quick draw which both seem to give a slight increase to thrown attack speed. Tons of fun to play and now that I have a full set of the big 5 in throwers even more so. Something great about throwing more than one vorpal hit through a good kite stream.

Borror0
04-18-2008, 02:38 PM
There's Riot's Chunk Ematchu here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=129849).

wolfy42
05-06-2008, 03:11 AM
There is a way to boost your attack speed to acceptable levels with thrown weapons.....keep haste going all the time.

In order to do this though you need to have spellcaster lvls of some form or another.

Therefore bard seems like the obvious choice:)

Fighter is also needed for weapon specializaton and the bonus feats.

The last class is a toss up between the 2 that have movement speed boosts, ranger and barbarian.

Ranger gets a nice free feat if you take 2 lvls....rapid shot. If you go with an even 8 bard lvls (Gets haste/displacement/heroism, and inspire courage bonus and you can nab spellsinger for extra sp and UMD skill) then the ranger levels are probably better (lets you take 8 bard/2 ranger/6 fighter currently..nabbing the second strength enhancement).

If you go with 9 bard lvls then you can snag just 1 barbarian lvl for the 10% speed boost (Stacks with haste and both stack with movement speed boosts) and rage (the penalty to AC doesn't matter much when enemies can't actually touch you even in enclosed spaces as you circle around them).

Ranger also gets 2 other bonuses though. They get 1 favored enemy (undead) and they get a +2 bonus to all skills (very nice boost to UMD and whatever else your boosting like jump from bard lvls).

It's a real hard choice between them, warchanter isn't worth wasting 2 feats you'll hardly ever use (power attack and weapon focus slashing/piercing or blunt) so you won't get an extra rage. The 10% speed boost from barbarian.....is really nice......but probably not worth losing the bonus rapid shot feat which you need to take. The barbarian rage is great when using ranged attacks like this......but......you don't get enough especially with only 1 barbarian lvl (only 1 per rest....2 if you take two of them, but if your taking 2 lvls.....go ranger).

Therefore I think the ranger build wins in the end.

You might want to go with 4 ranger lvls though since you can nab Rams Might (With plenty of sp to keep it up and extend (you need it for spellsinger anyway) to make sure it lasts awhile).

The breakdown would then be 8 bard/4 ranger/4 fighter lvls.

You grab weapon focus/specialization throwing
Rams might and favored enemy undead from ranger.
Spellsinger from bard.


Keep UMD maxed, grab ranger skill boost II and ranger move speed boost I (II if you really want to but 5% boost isn't worth it).

Spellsinger gains you 100 bonus mana AND +2 umd (among other things) and doesn't cost you anything you wouldn't already be taking (extend helps alot)

You get rapid shot for free and need to take weapon focus/specialization throwing along with quickdraw and extend.

You get 9 feats total (6 base and 3 fighter) along with free rapid shot TWF.

You can grab the above 4 and still have 5 free feats to play around with (grabbing improved precise shot is a great idea but Shot on the run IS MANDATORY to make this work well.

To get SoTR you need dodge/mobility/PBS.

To get improved precise shot you need PBS/Precise shot

That is a total of 5 feats.

Leaving no room at all for improved crit throwing which you seriously want.

Taking 6 fighter lvls fixes that but makes you lose your rams might spell.

Since your AB is so high already you can ditch weapon focus throwing and weapon specialization throwing and nab improved crit throwing and SF UMD if you want to get a REALLY high UMD score (or nab toughness or something else instead...or just keep weapon focus and ditch weapon spec).

You can also take weapon spec early on...then ditch it later for a pre-req (trade it in for precise shot right before getting improved precise shot for instance...which is probably the best idea since you can't get improved precise shot till lvl 12 at the absolute earliest but more then likely not till lvl 13-16...until then weapon specialization is probably better then anything else you will get (after SoTR).

Damage while hasted with your thrown weapon is fairly decent...although without 6 fighter lvls you lose out on fighter strength 2 (rams might is +3 dmg though between strength bonus and dmg bonus so worth it). With just +1 from strength it's best to go with stats like this:

Halfling bard 8/ranger 4/fighter 4

Str 15 (13)
Dex 18 (10)
Con 14 (06)
Int 08 (00)
Wis 08 (00) (use wis item to have ranger spells available)
cha 11 (03)

+1 strength from fighter strength enhancement at lvl 2 fighter.
+2 cha from bard cha enhancements (gives a 13 cha which is needed for lvl 3 bard spells)
+2 dex from halfling
+1 dex from ranger
Wear a fearsome robe
Use mage armor clickie on yourself or bracers
All level up stats into dex.
First +2 tome (or eventually +3 hopefully) into dex.
Second into strength.

Few things:

First you can wear a shield with thrown weapons and grab the AC bonus......BUT you can also have off hand weapons that boost your thrown weapons abilities (Seeker, weighted etc). Weighted works great with thrown hammers for instance. You can cast SHIELD spell on yourself with such a high UMD (use a wand they are cheap and 50 charges per item slot...easy to keep up) and not loose to much AC. Enemies will only be attacking you at range.

You don't get any evasion with this build sadly.....and getting evasion costs to much. You do have decent saves over all though...which is important because spells are your biggest enemy (base saved without bonuses at all are 10/11/7 at lvl 16.....you have a VERY high reflex (sadly no evasion) and decent fort/will saves after stat boosts/halfling boosts and equipment boosts (should end up being something along the lines of +24/+30/+18 or so I believe...which isn't horrible.)

You only get 1 spell choice at lvl 8 bard.....which would be haste (you know 3 but can have only 1 memmed). Displacement/GH are good as backup (if your running with a group that is constantly hasting you can switch to displacement and keep yourself displaced and if you need a GH you can cast it yourself (for UMD etc).

lvl 9 bard would be optimal but you can't get it without sacrificing too much again.

The advantage here is that you move like the freaking wind (barbarian setup moves even faster) and can keep damaging enemies without ever getting touched. Perma haste + rogue attack speed boost II + rapid shot + quickdraw = very fast attack rate for your throwing weapons (faster then non-hasted melee characters attack rate actually). SoTR means you get full attack bonus while moving and unlike melee no penalty to combo attacks in the process.

There is one other build that I would really like to see someone make...I'll post it next.

wolfy42
05-06-2008, 04:20 AM
The largest problem with thrown weapon builds? Your AB blows compared to strength based AB builds especially late game.

Strength boosts can get so much higher then dex between equipment and rages etc.

Without SoTR your dealing with a -4 to hit fairly constantly as well (The only real advantage of the build is when you are moving actually).

Base 20 dex + 4 from lvl + 2 from halfling + 1 from rogue/ranger + 3 from tome +6 from item = 36 or + 13 to hit
+1 halfling size bonus
+ 1 halfling throwing bonus
+ 2 halfling throwing enhancement bonus
+4 (max) thrown weapon bonus
+15 BAB

=36 AB base

-4 while moving = 32

Haste which is very useful would give you a 33 normally, but that isn't exactly high compared to strength builds even without barbarian rage going. Even clerics can easily get a higher AB then that with their first hit.

Still you should hit with your 20% crit on most enemies (that means you roll a 17 or higher which means 32+17= 49 ac on the enemy to miss your crit hits. Seeker weapon in the off hand will help confirm the hits as well.

Another interesting idea would be the cleric/wizard thrower.

The concept there is to get both divine power AND haste on 1 character (along with divine favor, heroism and recitation (or freedom of movement).

Your screwed if you get dispelled but you are pretty rockin otherwise.

9 cleric lvls/7 wizard lvls gives you the following:

+3 dmg/to hit with divine favor
Full BAB and +6 to strength from divine power (while still being able to cast spells)
+2 AB from heroism (Self cast)
+1 AB from haste (perma haste..can keep it going constantly...and have extend)
+2 to AB from recitation (self cast)
Ability to cast Raise dead at will.
Ability to cast freedom of movement.
Ability to cast solid fog to help keep enemies off you and prevent ranged attacks.
Full sorc and cleric wand usage.
Ability to cast Aid and Aid mass for almost full (+9 instead of +10) bonus.

If you go with a 11/5 split you still get haste/heroism but miss out on displacement/solid fog etc. On the other hand you can nab heal (only 110 point base but still decent) and most importantly use heal scrolls at will also.

With this setup you can live without SoTR as well (since you get so many bonuses to your AB from spells AND full BAB).

You get 2 bonus feats from wizard (extend and maximize probably....lets you maximize your healing spells too and could be used with wall of fire if you end up taking it).

Base feats then to include improved precise should be:

PBS/Rapid shot/Precise shot/IpS/IC thrown weapons/quickdraw

Gives you a 19-20 range with most thrown weapons (17-20 with daggers).

Largest weakness is the HP which pretty much blow, and the saving throws which are definatly not great either even with halfling bonuses.

You can have death ward on yourself and freedom of movement etc so the saving throws are not THAT bad...but with no evasion AoE spells are going to hurt even with your fairly high reflex save (all stat points into dex, along with halfling enhancements to dex and an 18 starting dex as well).

STats with a 32 point build are something like:

Str 12 (06)
Dex 18 (10)
Con 14 (06)
Wis 14 (04)
Int 12 (06)
Cha 08 (00)

All stat points into dex.
+2 dex from halfling enhancement
+2 wis from cleric enhancement (no wis boosting item needed to cast lvl 6 spells)
+2 int from wizard enhancement (allowing for lvl 4 spells to be cast without an int boosting item)

Dmg bonus with your thrown weapons won't be that high but you get the following:

+6 strength from DP
+2 strength from rage
Total strength (without madstone etc) = 20 or +5 dmg per thrown weapon
+3 dmg from Divine favor
+4 dmg (max) from returning weapon enchantment (alternativly could have elemental dmg as well etc)
+2 dmg (if you use the AP for it) from throwing enhancement
+1 aid bonus dmg

Total = +15 dmg a thrown weapon with a 19-20 crit rate (x3 dmg for axes).

Not great...but as a backup character who can raise dead and cast heals while keeping the party hasted......not horrible either.

Sue_Dark
07-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Just started my 1/2ling thrower last night. 1rog/1ftr atm. (32 point)

lookin to see 3rog/5ftr/8 BARD!

He is more a concept than anything, I have some nice low end gear, so he's at 30 AC, got a +4 returner, a few spec weaps for those times when you have to change (slime!). So far so good....

Stats

S12
D18
C12
I16
W12
C8

(IIRC)

L2 - 45 hp, 30 ac

L16 - ~200 hp, unknown ac (i dont bother trying to plan for raid items and all that ****)
L16 stats
S18
D30-32
C18
I22
W18
C8
(I have items for all stats already, so not worried, only tome possibly included is 1750)

I'll try to remember to post my export when I get home.

Rekker
07-03-2008, 11:53 AM
I always thought Warforges made the best Halfling Thower builds ;)

Gunga
07-03-2008, 12:08 PM
OMG no. Please no.