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View Full Version : Breakables, Collectibles, and Flagging for Devs



Deadrick
11-18-2007, 03:08 AM
DDO Suggestions

Oh, just for the people who flame. This is my opinion, and what I have experienced firsthand. Please don't make me gnaw off my own arm.


#1 Breakables

- In many of the mid range and higher level quests in DDO, the presence of breakables is ignored by most players for several reasons.
(1) The items that drop from breakable containers are usually along the lines of Potion of Shield of Faith (1 Point Deflection), Potion of Resistance (10 Point Resist), 38 Silver Pieces (Silver, not Gold), +1 Throwing Daggers (Non-Returning), +2 Returning Throwing Axe, etc, etc, etc. While this may be ok for a group of 3rd level characters, it's not ok to run into these items in the Stormreaver Quest, Wizard King, or other high level quest. The majority of players will see this commonality, and quit breaking these items, since it's pointless to do so. If they need potions, they will go buy some. It's strange to note the lack of the items that players are commonly used to buying.

I can only use myself as an example, but I think in the 18 months that I have played DDO, I have only ever received like 5 major Mnemonic Potions (Quest reward only).

Why are not Haste Potions, Cure/Repair Critical Potions, and other similar items found from these breakables. You don't have to drop +1 Tomes from them, but make them useful to all players, of all levels.



(1a) The cure - a suggestion mind you - would be something like this. Create a new table of items to drop from these boxes - items that are not bound (making them tradeworthy) and unique only to these breakables. Items such as 1 minute Haste potions (not 30 seconds - 1 full minute - a very rare and unique find), Cure/Repair Critical wounds (Not Sold in Stores), Greater Heroism Potions (For those who cannot afford scrolls and UMD). create a class of weapons that only comes from breakables (Items with perhaps the possibility of gaining high level weapons with no level restrictions - a sheaf of 20 Paralyzing/Disrupting/Banishing arrows to go with your favorite bow would be nice. A set of Bursting arrows that would allow a non-burst weapon to temporarily burst would be very nice for boss fights. Bursting thrown weapons (both regular and returning would be in this category) Admittedly, there would be some who can try to stock up, but the frequency of these items doesn't have to be great, but they should be available. The appearance of Mnemonic Potions of all kinds would also be a benefit.

These items should not be tied to the level of the quest - that defeats the purpose of these items - which is to get people to utilize the features of the world you have created. After all, if it's a single table that can drop any item anywhere, then all the boxes in all the quests might get broken, instead of just the boxes in the 4 highest level quests.

(1b) Another thing that could be implemented would be quest specific drops from these breakables - Items such as...

Baudry's Badge** Most recently worn by the infamous Baudry Cartamon, this badge (trinket)sparkles hypnotically, allowing the user to get a discount of 2/3 from vendors on a single purchase of stock. (For those players who thought Baudry's ability to get them to do three quests for the price of one was magic, it has now been confirmed.) This items contains 1 charge, and will dissapear after use.

Grinwhite's Gage** Most recently worn by Grinwhite, this gage (gloves) shows nothing until a purchase is made by the wearer, the gage then bursts into a hypnotic pattern allowing the user to get away with only paying 1/10th the actual value of the item purchased. (For those who completed this quest on elite, you too can now rob somebody blind.)

Haywire's Replicator** This strange device was obviously misplaced by Haywire. Knowing his penchant for strange devices, it may well be something explosive. However, the instructions on the device indicate that you can place one item inside the Replicator and it will Create a new copy of it. (i.e. the replicator repairs all damage to a single item.) The rest of the instructions have been melted off - probably in a prior explosion.

PS. Make a DC35 reflex save or suffer 30d20 points of explosive damage (This unit has 1 charge and explodes on use. Yes, even if you die, it still repairs 1 item completely. Still, it's pretty cool to watch the occasional guy in a bar just randomly explode. A good animation would be needed for this item's explosion, as well as perhaps the ability to injure all in the explosion radius:)




#2 - Collectibles

To my knowledge, the existence of collectibles after the first month of playing is almost forgotten by all. While cute when a player first starts - it quickly becomes moot since the power of the reward items vs. time for collection is so one sided that it's not even worth bothering over. why collect 3 skeleton tokens to get +1 Arrows when it can be purchased far more easily.

Collectibles could be upgraded and changed to fit the new levels of the game, but it's still pointless. Instead, they could be tied to unlisted quests. Just happen to have collected up 25 Crimson Nightshades? You also happen to completed Quests X, Y, and Z. Behold, a popup NPC comes on screen/ via mail/ or via teleport {You have been offered Teleport - Do you accept?} It opens an unlisted quest that has not been listed anywhere, and should not be given out in the dev diary/module changes.

Just happen to take 137 lily petals to Ataraxia's Haven? Little did you know there was a Magical malady there at a bugbear encampment - that leads to a quest. Collectibles can be fun - if you want them to be - let the players crack the codes. Some may, some may not, but it should just be a simple instance of flagging and waiting until the right circumstances are met. But, while it may make a few players angry that everything isn't written out for them like usual, many will enjoy the game even more. Make some adventures of all levels, and let them be solo'd, or even grouped, if everybody gets the flag at the same time (by encouraging team play and sharing of all items) - use it or lose it - one chance only. And all hidden Quests should have named items for rewards. They don't have to be uber items, just something useful - mirror clickies that will merge with and double a current clickie (thereby binding said clickie) or something of a similar nature.

I remember that the mystery and not knowing were a big part of enjoying the game. It gets tiring seeing Undead, Undead, Undead. They really need to be taken out of focus, and something more interesting put in. Owlbears, Displacer Beasts, Aurumvorax, these are staple wilderness monsters. DDO has some really great scenery, but if all that exists in this world are cats and dogs, it gets boring pretty quick. Drop in some ogre's, replace the data with an owlbear, give it a new paintjob and some tires, and let us adventure. It's good to know there are certain quests out there that I can play anytime. But, to me, it's better to know that I can explore and find my own quests because of the WAY I play my character more than following a certain path to get levels and the same old loot.

Think of this. Even if your +4 bursting longbow of pure good can now paralyze an opponent, it's only for 20 shots - use them wisely. So what if you can rip off a vendor for one transaction - it's ONE transaction, and it can't break the game - you can't get more than something is worth, you can't get more than 100 items, usually potions or scrolls.



Please, please, consider this as fodder. Everyone knows you have a quest flagging system, you use it for Baudry's and for the raids. It shouldn't be that hard?? to activate an NPC that just stands around doing nothing to call you over for a chat because you are now flagged. Just try to remember, the flag's shouldn't be too easy, nor should they be too difficult to attain. And remember, there's nothing wrong with using the same old stuff to run these out of, as long as you change them up some, it shouldn't be too hard to get by.

OK, that's this rant for now. I hope a dev will read it.


Thanks to any and all for reading, sorry if there is anything misspelled. Please post any feedback you like (flames and all.)

Ron
11-18-2007, 03:31 AM
Well, hitting the breakables DOES give a 10% XP bonus. So unless you are playing with zergers, your party should probably still be hitting them just for that reason if for nothing else.

I agree, though, unless you are a soloist, the breakables/collectables are generally pretty worthless.

sirgog
11-18-2007, 08:52 AM
Couple of suggestions I like - 1 min haste potions dropping for one.

I'd like to see frequent drops of the following from barrels in high level quests:

Potions of spells at caster level 10 or higher including Haste, Cure Serious, Repair Serious, Protection from Energy: ***, Resist Energy, and maybe even Stoneskin and Greater Heroism (these may be overpowered)

+5 energy arrows (i.e. +5 flaming) as stacks of 100

+3 bursting arrows (as above), increase later to +5 bursting

And most importantly: Significant stacks (10 or 25 or 50) of cure serious and repair serious potions.

Basically, if it is a consumable, it should be possible for a careful player to get enough of it to get by from these barrels etc IMO.

Deadrick
11-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Admittedly it's rough to add in a bunch of extra adventures and loot. I'm not saying it might not be more work than I imagine, it certainly could be. However, it's something I've noticed in many quests. I love D&D, I've played since the old box sets (Basic, Expert, Companion, etc...) But it's also true that the majority of players get tired of modules at PNP games, they prefer something more ... flexible?? in their games.

While these are only suggestions, they are - I believe - workable ones. Certainly well within the realm of possibility for actual deployment in a hotfix. If 1 minute haste potions were to exist, why can't they drop at a rate of 1 per 1000 barrels/boxes smashed (Server wide). I'm certainly not saying that the old stuff should be removed from the lists, but shouldn't there be at least a few things that are actually useful in a high level quest coming out of these. Can anyone tell me the last time they used a 1 minute SOF potion in POP??

Why can't you get update these potions to make them useful? Any comments on my other ideas?

Kalanth
11-18-2007, 05:06 PM
While I have seen things from Returning weapons up to a +5 Fullplate drop from breaking boxes, I can honestly say that there is only one reason I break them.

XP

If, by smashing 55 boxes I can increase the XP I recieved by 10% then you can bet your butt that I am going to be doing just that.

Kerrn_Siff
11-18-2007, 05:43 PM
Haywire's Replicator** This strange device was obviously misplaced by Haywire. Knowing his penchant for strange devices, it may well be something explosive. However, the instructions on the device indicate that you can place one item inside the Replicator and it will Create a new copy of it. (i.e. the replicator repairs all damage to a single item.) The rest of the instructions have been melted off - probably in a prior explosion.

PS. Make a DC35 reflex save or suffer 30d20 points of explosive damage (This unit has 1 charge and explodes on use. Yes, even if you die, it still repairs 1 item completely. Still, it's pretty cool to watch the occasional guy in a bar just randomly explode. A good animation would be needed for this item's explosion, as well as perhaps the ability to injure all in the explosion radius:)



I would pay for an expansion just to have this device, that would be so freaking cool :)

Claver
11-18-2007, 05:48 PM
DDO Suggestions

Just happen to take 137 lily petals to Ataraxia's Haven? Little did you know there was a Magical malady there at a bugbear encampment - that leads to a quest. Collectibles can be fun - if you want them to be - let the players crack the codes. Some may, some may not, but it should just be a simple instance of flagging and waiting until the right circumstances are met. But, while it may make a few players angry that everything isn't written out for them like usual, many will enjoy the game even more. Make some adventures of all levels, and let them be solo'd, or even grouped, if everybody gets the flag at the same time (by encouraging team play and sharing of all items) - use it or lose it - one chance only. And all hidden Quests should have named items for rewards. They don't have to be uber items, just something useful - mirror clickies that will merge with and double a current clickie (thereby binding said clickie) or something of a similar nature.




I like your idea but I like new content even more. It would be a disservice to the many customers who beg for more content to only offer it to a narrow sliver of the gaming community. Maybe if DDO continues for 2 or 3 years they can add a few secret quests but for now, we could still use 50 to 100 more quests for levels 1 through 10.

I have a counter proposal. Instead of hidden quests how about hidden enhancements that are not available elsewhere in the game (and are not listed in the developers notes). Instead of using action points, use a "slayer quest" talley for the numer of collectable gathered.

[10 - 30] lily petals = witch doctor I (+2 vs poison, +2 with healing skills)
[50 - 100] lily petals = witch doctor II (cast curse once per day, remove curse once per day, available to rangers, clerics, wizards and sorcereres minimum level 5)
[250 - 400] lily petals = witch doctor III (immune to poison, immune to curse, available to any class level 10 or higher)

Notice I used a range [10 - 30 petals]. I like the idea of random rewards for collectables, why not random enhancements. Some of you characters may get lucky and be offered the enhancement after turning in 10 petals; others will need to turn in 13 or 17 or 23 or even 30. It would be random for each character. Include just enough of a range that a player can feel lucky without feeling victimized.

redoubt
11-18-2007, 07:32 PM
I agree that secret content would be a problem. But I really like the concepts you put forth.

For the collectables:
Just have a bunch maybe. I think carring around multiple stacks of collectables is a waste of space. Even in the bank they are often wasted. Maybe a counter that keeps track of how many you have collected (even if sold or tossed). Then your NPC could come up and say, "I've noticed you collect lots of lily petals. Want a job? ... Okay, Grutz has been talking to Bruku over on Sorrowdusk. Bruku needs some help. Take him 50 lily petals and complete his task. Then come back and see me." Then you get your lily petals and go run Bruku's quest chain over on sorrow dusk. It flags you and you go back to the NPC in Tangleroot and get some interesting reward. No favor though, that would be a whole other can of worms. This would kinda add random story line, but not require building new dungeons.

Talish
11-18-2007, 10:23 PM
As a level 14 player I still find myself using collectibles. I am very specific as to which ones I turn in but there are some useful ones ESPECIALLY the collectibles for the collectors at the top of the tower in house D.

I do not know how many times an alchemical bonus to a stat or skill has saved my butt. Are you saying that +3 to strength which stacks with your enhanced item is useless? How about a +3 to a skill based on dexterity or intelligence like disable or open lock? that +3 to the dex based skill and a +3 to the stat could allow a lot of thieves to open chests they couldn't open before. (sorry I don't play a rogue so I may have the stat wrong for disable)

Again since these are alchemical bonuses they stack with everything except each other. I carry a few of each that my fighter may need at all times and actively look for the collectibles.

There are other collectibles I turn in as well for cure serious, elemental arrows and bolts etc etc. These arrows and bolts cannot be purchased except at the auction house. The only way I know to get them is through collectibles, breakables and chests. My ranger has several hundred flaming, frost and acid etc arrows because of collectibles. If you don't use arrows and bolts they fetch a good price in AH not tons of plat but enough to have a steady supply of money.

The point is many of them are already useful. I agree new ones should be added as levels increase and put the collectibles in the higher level quests. This will probably happen as the House D potions I was talking about earlier were added when the titan quest came in and were not here at launch.

Breakables are as posted earlier are good for a 10% bonus to xp. That alone makes them worth breaking. The potions should scale as the quest level scales but then again the only time I get resist 20 pots is from crates and chests. If you have a resist 30 item you may not need them but resist 20 is nice to send to an alt or sell on AH.

I think a lot of people don't bother with collectibles because they really don't know what can be obtained when turning some of them in.

Claver
11-19-2007, 05:41 PM
#2 - Collectibles

Collectibles could be upgraded and changed to fit the new levels of the game, but it's still pointless. Instead, they could be tied to unlisted quests. Just happen to have collected up 25 Crimson Nightshades? You also happen to completed Quests X, Y, and Z. Behold, a popup NPC comes on screen/ via mail/ or via teleport {You have been offered Teleport - Do you accept?} It opens an unlisted quest that has not been listed anywhere, and should not be given out in the dev diary/module changes.

Here is another thought. Make the quest accessible (and known) to everyone but make the end reward based on the number of collectibles submitted. If no collectibles have been turned in use the standard loot tables. Supplement the loot table with cool specific named items like those given as end rewards at Tangleroot. The more collectibles submitted the greater the chance for pulling the better named loot.

Nevthial
11-19-2007, 06:27 PM
Over the course of a year I and others in my guild have noticed that when we do everything in a quest, i.e. : break everything, pick up every collectible, kill everyone, ect ; that we encounter more random named creatures in quests and actually pull better loot. I strongly feel that there is a mechanic involved with the loot drops vs. what has been accomplished in quest. Break everything, pick everything up & kill everything you can.

Deadrick
11-22-2007, 04:20 PM
Well, hitting the breakables DOES give a 10% XP bonus. So unless you are playing with zergers, your party should probably still be hitting them just for that reason if for nothing else.

I agree, though, unless you are a soloist, the breakables/collectibles are generally pretty worthless.

True, excellent point. Breakables do in fact earn you up to 10% XP. Assuming that the breakables aren't hidden behind a secret door that you cannot access, or that they are actually breakable and not glitched halfway through a wall. But what about when you are capped in XP? When there is no longer a point in breaking them for the extra 10%, or as - during the lower level quests - when the XP bonus is only a few (50-150) XP. No offense meant, but XP shouldn't be the only reason to hunt these out.

Even one multi-part collectible - such as those offered in Module 5 - like the Sigil, Shield, or Tapestry would make breakables worthwhile. Items with exceptional power and/or usefulness like the festival cookies were would also be pretty cool.

Also, to note, last night I was doing the Tomb of Rahmat - a 10th level dungeon on normal. Hardly any breakables were in the dungeon to start with (no XP bonus from breakables), and the only 2 that had anything in them were one with 5 silver pieces, and one with 9 silver pieces. Now, was any of the effort I expended in breaking those boxes/crates worth the time I invested? Again, I reiterate - make them useful and give people a reason to use the breakables.

tihocan
11-23-2007, 11:34 AM
Again, I reiterate - make them useful and give people a reason to use the breakables.
You know, some players like myself don't like breakables much. I'd rather have them staying optional than having to break them because otherwise you're missing on some really good stuff.

Deadrick
11-25-2007, 02:26 AM
You know, some players like myself don't like breakables much. I'd rather have them staying optional than having to break them because otherwise you're missing on some really good stuff.

#1 Ok, not to flame you, but that comment doesn't make sense to me. Breakables are optional items period (with the exception of the Baudry Quest.) I don't advocate making them non-optional. They should be left to the individual to decide on.


#2 How would they not be optional? I like uber gear as well as anyone, but at no point have I ever been forced to do a quest except for Sigmund's, I chose to complete the Stormreaver because I wanted what it could give me as a reward. At no point have I been forced to collect/kill anything unless I wanted the reward. It seems to me, that if you don't want the associated hassle of breaking the items, then you shouldn't break them - regardless of the ultimate payoff. Why should anything stuffed in a crate/barrel convince you otherwise? You have your beliefs that they aren't useful at all, so stand firm behind them.

Nothing I suggested in the original post was game altering, uber powerful, or even anything but a 1 shot item except the weapons, and those are pretty standard. It's a suggestion that may just enhance play for a portion of the players. I - and I'm sure many other people - might find this idea appealing. It is a suggestion, but one I believe workable that might fill in my time playing. After all, when I can't get a party, and I still want to play. It might be fun to collect items if they are worth it. Also, let's face it, there are many dungeons (e.g. Catacombs Series), that are passed through once, and only shuddered about in the future - never to be repeated again.

As I said above, make specific collectibles/breakables for some quests that are possibly useful at higher levels. Because it's hard to believe that the Silver Flame can't come up with anything better than a +2 item of drivel, that aren't even useful in the quests at that level. Sorry, reward table hate there***

Anyway, thanks for your input Tihocan, I appreciate the POV, and Ill try not to riot if I don't get what I want.:D


Deadrick