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Lillitheris
11-14-2007, 12:32 PM
So.. there's this one thing I've been studying since the merge. Just observing; I don't have any hard data to back my numbers up.

Anyway. I live happily in PUG-nation, meaning none of my characters are in real guilds. I do have friends I run around with, but PUGging is my main form of questing. The subject of my "study" is the amount of people from different servers in a PUG. Meaning, how many persons are from Ghallanda/Fernia/Lhazaar. I use guilds to determine which server the player is from. I know, not very scientific :p
I can't tell whether a strange guild is from Lhazaar or Ghallanda, hence I only count the number of people from guilds that I remember from Fernia. Again, not very scientific. However, I've noticed an interesting pattern. The rough numbers are as follows: ~75% of the PUGs I've done have had more than 1/3 Fernia-born players. More than one third being (for the math impaired ;)) 3+ in a normal group and 5+ on a raid. Furthermore, I only remember 2-3 quests where I've been the only Fernian. I do remember more than a few all-Fernian POP runs though.

What does this mean?
Fernians PUG more than Ghallandans and Lhazaarites? Were there large RP-guilds on Ghallanda/Lhazaar? A lot of people have joined Fernian guilds since the merge? I sub-consciously join PUGs that have more Fernians in them? Ghallanda was very elitist/guild-based? Lhazaar was very elitist/guild-based? A lot of people from either Ghallanda or Lhazaar have quit after the merge? Did Ghallanda/Lhazaar have a lot of elite/large guilds? We ran different quests/raids on Fernia than you did on Ghallanda/Lhazaar?
I don't know, but let me list some of the things I've noticed:


We PUGged a lot back on Fernia. I've never been in a guild and I've managed just fine. It never got the point where one "must join a guild".
Neither Ghallanda, Lhazaar or Fernia seem to have uber elitist guilds. Elitist in a bad way.
Neither Ghallanda, Lhazaar or Fernia seem to have a lot of elite guilds. Elite in a good way.
The few elite guilds do PUGs - at least raids.
Roleplaying guilds are few and far between.
The only large guild I can think of is the Old Timer's Guild (are they from Ghallanda or Lhazaar?). Anyway, I've been in PUGs with their members so they can't be the only reason.
To my knowledge there are no underground guilds, which run anonymous 24/7 and only do quests with guildies.


So whaddya guys and gals think? Am I just delusional or does my "study" have a grain of truth in it?

Killbilly
11-14-2007, 11:20 PM
Ghallanda has always been pretty guild-centric. I believe I heard the same thing about Lhazaar.

Lillitheris
11-15-2007, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the info :)

I have always been very interested in inter-server dynamics. Way back when they first opened Risia, I went there just to find out how people from other servers play. What kind of tactics they use, do they exploit the same safe spots we do etc.

By the way, some of my runs from yesterday:

PoP 4/6 Fernia
Reaver 8/12 Fernia (7 items dropped (http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1369/screenshot00733sk3.jpg) btw :))
Chains 4/6 Fernia

et cetera

Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

Oreg
11-15-2007, 10:22 AM
I think that you will find that there are many guilds that have 10-15 very active players in them. At any given time you will see some portion of them online. Most of them probably short man quests so that if a guild member logs in, they will have space. Most of them probably invite PUGers for raids. I know it is the case for Oblivion and at least 5-8 other guilds that have been around in some form or another since the beginning.

I don't know that I have seen any differentiation between original Ghallandrians and the immigrants that came after the server merge :)

Aspenor
11-15-2007, 11:34 AM
On Argonessan my guild will run clericless and shortmanned before we invite PUG'ers we don't know. It's definitely a server culture mechanic.

hannika
11-15-2007, 11:48 AM
lhazaar was a very small server, which is prolly why you don't see a TON of them like you see five million old timers running around which i'm pretty sure came from ghallanda. i think i subconciously play with other fernians. i guess just because i recognize the names more and tend to join their groups more when i'm not conciously looking for friends/guildies to play with who are about 95% fernian. i do run with a group of lhazzar boys though that make the merge worth it to me cuz i <3 them greatly, but i also learned that lhazzar does some stuff backwards from fernia (though they think we're backwards) it's kinda fun to discover those differences, there are a lot more similarities though.

Oreg
11-15-2007, 12:02 PM
On Argonessan my guild will run clericless and shortmanned before we invite PUG'ers we don't know. It's definitely a server culture mechanic.

We are definitely more likely to do this with capped characters. Levelling up we tend to invite people as long as they don't slow us down.

Aspenor
11-15-2007, 12:06 PM
We are definitely more likely to do this with capped characters. Levelling up we tend to invite people as long as they don't slow us down.

Not us, usually, unless we feel like shocking some random strangers with antics and attempting quests that no PUG would ever dream of doing at their current level ;)

Yvonne_Blacksword
11-15-2007, 12:26 PM
I pug...on my lowbies.
I is a way to meet people, see different play styles and customs and get a feel for the place...sans commitment.
Beats taking on all the argo and waiting until I can solo (thus lose xp) on my lowbie squishies.
You never know who you will meet in a PUG. Could be your new nemisis...Could be your new ally.

I make sure that I am preped for it...Or I do not do it.

rpasell
11-15-2007, 01:09 PM
Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

Circle of Might (aka Commies) and Eutopia were Lhazaar, i think EvilEmpire was as well.

KatanAztar
11-15-2007, 05:05 PM
Oh and I'd love to know are non-Fernian guilds from Lhazaar or Ghallanda.
Exodus, Transgression, Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Old Timers' Guild, Evilempire, Eutopia, the list goes on.

Exodus, Transgression, and OTG came from native Ghallanda

SaberMonkey
11-15-2007, 09:56 PM
Sanctus Armata, Circle of Might, Eutopia, and Evil Empire were all Lhazzar. I have been pugging alot since I don't play as much as i used to. It is cool to see different tactics and what not that the other severs used. I think we are melding well together and I am actually enjoying pugging more than I used to. Although there is always the group that makes you go "Wow, you gotta be kidding me!"

philo
11-16-2007, 07:06 AM
I think it has alot to do with the raid loot changes. I never pugged when i was on fernia (unless i was leveling up an alt). Now i jump in pug raids all the time since its not logical to short man raids. Since nobody does abbot at the moment, and all the other raids are so easy, any ole pug group will do. Before if we had 8 guildies raid rdy we'd split into a few groups to get more loot. .
Once people start getting the new abbot changes down there will be a time period when it is primarily only run in guild.

Deaths_ward
11-16-2007, 05:27 PM
I've joined a guild, that I guess is somewhat prominent. They seem to be rather community oriented, but as I as a PUG monkey through level 14 on 1 toon, and 12 on another, I can't exactly shake that self preservation.

I think that the reason you see less PUG groups at higher levels is that People who are purely PuG runners tend to be less concerned with how everyone is doing, and more about themselves, as they don't have a guild full of people who might pass stuff of, or do those lovely charity events. I know that until I joined the guild I'm in I wasn't someone who shared well with others, nor was I exactly friendly when it came to my loot and other such 'supplies', and I find it hard to shake that, "Make sure I survive, and if everyone else does cool", mentality.

Not sure if that's what you're looking for but that's my input.

issiana
11-16-2007, 11:19 PM
i have often wondered if i'm in the minority a i only ever pug, and will take ANYONE who wants to come into my groups.
pugging is fun as you get to meet new faces, some groups have being quite, some zergy and some so funny i can hardly control my character due to me laughing so hard!

I have gotten by with all my characters by not being in a guild, mostly this is due to my play times not being lining up with any guild i have looked into. Sure i have friends i'll play with and some guilds i'll tag along with, but on the whole i'm a pugger. To date since i moved to lhazaar then ghallanda i've found only good pugs. The pugging on argo i found VERY lacking and can hence understand those TF's ppl saying what they did over there.

In short pugging is a good way to go on ghallanda atm, I cant say the same for other servers though.

Lillitheris
11-20-2007, 10:31 AM
Thank you everybody for the great info :)

I'm trying to connect the loose ends here...
I see a lot of "Fernia forever!"-type stuff on people's bios and sigs. I don't see nearly as much "Ghallanda/Lhazaar forever!"-slogans. Maybe we developed a stronger sense of server camraderie through PUGging on Fernia *shrug*

I also hear a lot of "God I miss Fernia"-type stuff in PUGs. This might be related to the fact that Fernians PUG a lot and many Ghallandans/Lhazaarites run in their guild-only groups. But I still find it odd that I have NEVER heard a non-Fernian say "I miss Ghallanda/Lhazaar so much".

Any thoughts?

Aspenor
11-20-2007, 10:39 AM
The pugging on argo i found VERY lacking and can hence understand those TF's ppl saying what they did over there.

PUGs on Argo are like playing slots. You might get really lucky and hit the jackpot. But, as the alphabetically prevalent server on the server lists upon the initial boot of the game, we pull a lot of dregs (and also, a lot of kids, this is the main issue actually). Now, TF has a couple younger individuals, one 14 and one 15, but each of them are fairly mature and are definitely an asset to their party.

I've learned that having a good friends list is a must now that guild-only playtime is very hit and miss, and I've been running with the regulars from the other established guilds as well.

Overally, comparatively, Ghallanda is a better server for PUGs, undoubtedly. I think it's the whole "old man server" thing :p Mature and competent players are usually easy to get along with.

Oreg
11-20-2007, 10:46 AM
Overally, comparatively, Ghallanda is a better server for PUGs, undoubtedly. I think it's the whole "old man server" thing :p Mature and competent players are usually easy to get along with.

Good point. I have always maintained that way back in beta when The Old Timers Guild announced their home on Ghallandra was one of the best days for this server. Even if you did not want to join them, you knew that mature players took notice and gravitated towards it about as fast as the younger kids took heed and ran from it. As as a result there is an extremely large population of mature and easygoing players on this server.

Lillitheris
11-20-2007, 11:41 AM
Good point. I have always maintained that way back in beta when The Old Timers Guild announced their home on Ghallandra was one of the best days for this server. Even if you did not want to join them, you knew that mature players took notice and gravitated towards it about as fast as the younger kids took heed and ran from it. As as a result there is an extremely large population of mature and easygoing players on this server.

I joined two monts after launch so this is all news to me. Combined with the fact that Fernia was also very easy-going (save a few elitist guilds), this seems like a reasonable explanation :)

The_Saint
11-21-2007, 11:29 AM
Good topic for conversation. While I cannot speak for Fernia or Ghall. Lhazzar was always very guild oriented. As a small server, most of the players knew each other but still held to the guilded principles. I think that Merlasks "server survey" captured a lot of the essence of Lhazzar and can only assume she was fairly accurate to the other servers as well.

Here is the link to her survey.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1267140&postcount=13

philo
11-21-2007, 12:27 PM
Good topic for conversation. While I cannot speak for Fernia or Ghall. Lhazzar was always very guild oriented. As a small server, most of the players knew each other but still held to the guilded principles. I think that Merlasks "server survey" captured a lot of the essence of Lhazzar and can only assume she was fairly accurate to the other servers as well.

Here is the link to her survey.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1267140&postcount=13


I always thought that survey was filled with broad generalizations and inaccurate information based on whoever the survey takers happened to talk to. (not actually that link you linked..but the orginal, full post) There were parts of it I agreed with (when you make such broad generalizations you are bound to come across some bit of truth) but much of it was way off. But then what do people expect from a survey that could not possibly cover a representative sample of the population.

smatt
11-21-2007, 12:58 PM
On Argonessan my guild will run clericless and shortmanned before we invite PUG'ers we don't know. It's definitely a server culture mechanic.


LOL, you forgot to mention the big red "S"'s on your shirt..... Or is that an "A" :)


Lhazaar was a small server, and was pretty guild centric, although I pugged a lot then, mostly with people I knew though. I still PUG a bit, but usually run with my few guildies.. We manage just fine, but are happy to fill with PUGGERS when neccesary.

There certainbly are some mostly anon, as well as elitist a-hole guilds around, some of which are major exploiters, plat farmers etc. as well as just the "We're so awesome, and everybody else sucks" types some of which came from Lhazaar I would gladly name them if it was allowed, just to expose the turds for what they are) . For the most part though the Fernians and Ghallandrians I've run with are great folks.

PUGS can fun, pugs can suck, guilds can be fun, guilds can suck.... It's all about having fun :)

Aspenor
11-21-2007, 01:04 PM
LOL, you forgot to mention the big red "S"'s on your shirt..... Or is that an "A" :)
It's not really about being leet, or whatever, it's just that we prefer to leave slots open for the possibility that a friend from the guild comes online.

Lillitheris
11-21-2007, 05:25 PM
Good topic for conversation. While I cannot speak for Fernia or Ghall. Lhazzar was always very guild oriented. As a small server, most of the players knew each other but still held to the guilded principles. I think that Merlasks "server survey" captured a lot of the essence of Lhazzar and can only assume she was fairly accurate to the other servers as well.

Here is the link to her survey.
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=1267140&postcount=13

Thanks for the link. I actually never read that post-merge analysis, only the original post.

Some of her observations match mine/ours. Fernia has a high score in PUGs, Casual Drive and Server Camraderie. Lhazaar is listed as very Guild Driven. All 3 servers are seen as a home to a large amount of Older Players.

One odd thing is that while many Lhazaarites say their server was very small, Fernia is listed as less populated in Merlask's guide *shrug*

Hence
11-21-2007, 05:53 PM
I think this game shines when all you do is play in PuGs. It gives a little more "Community" to the game then just grouping with the same people over and over. Guilds are in affect destroying the game because people are only playing with the same people and have no interaction with the world at large. Granted DDO does not have a world at large so to speak besides the LFM panel.

I tend to get the same people joining my PuGs because they recognize me. But rarely if ever do I have ALL the same people with me, I like it this way. I like interacting with other people not just stuck in my guild box.

I WISH we had open instances, so groups could compete over resources. But, it will never happen. We will never see a real community in this game besides the LFM panel. Without a major overhaul that is.

PuGs are better, except when you get that one person everyone will not play with in your group. Happened to me the other day. I do not keep tabs on people, I have never used the /squelch feature. But the other day, I was not getting anyone to join my group when I had 2 players with me. I didn't think much of it until a friend sent me a tell saying ***? Why is he in your group? How should I know? This has only happened one time to me, and the offending player left after a short time because we would not hold his hand. After he left, I filled the group no problem.

PuGs are the only way to play this game IMO. I would hate to be stuck with the same people on every quest, how quickly this game would become boring if you only heard the same 5 voices. Some of you need to be more adventurous and social.

Ranmaru2
11-22-2007, 05:51 AM
Speaking from a player that came from Lhazaar, we were more guild orientated than anything. We ran with guilds before we even opened to a PUG, and then we were still likely to hold out on PUG invites. It was difficult to ever get a full party as a lot of the big name guilds played with players from their guild, and there was a certain player skill that was always floating around. We never saw many new players, because if they looked at Merlask's survey, we weren't exactly listed as a friendly server for new players. While it was nice to see new players survive and then thrive on our survey, it was a hassle considering how we played (Lhazaar groups were a lot of clericless groups, and so self sufficiency was a must..). Most of the good players from Lhazaar have gotten bored and left the game or are taking a break. I know a lot of BCB people have taken a break, as I asked one BCB player yesterday and that was what I was told..

Samadhi
11-24-2007, 09:26 PM
Thank you everybody for the great info :)

I'm trying to connect the loose ends here...
I see a lot of "Fernia forever!"-type stuff on people's bios and sigs. I don't see nearly as much "Ghallanda/Lhazaar forever!"-slogans. Maybe we developed a stronger sense of server camraderie through PUGging on Fernia *shrug*

I also hear a lot of "God I miss Fernia"-type stuff in PUGs. This might be related to the fact that Fernians PUG a lot and many Ghallandans/Lhazaarites run in their guild-only groups. But I still find it odd that I have NEVER heard a non-Fernian say "I miss Ghallanda/Lhazaar so much".

Any thoughts?

Amusingly enough, I know a lot of native Ghallandans that purposely avoid Fernians but seem to have no problem with Lhazaarans... I just try to build an extensive friendlist since I play a bit more than most...

hannika
11-24-2007, 09:37 PM
I think this game shines when all you do is play in PuGs. It gives a little more "Community" to the game then just grouping with the same people over and over. Guilds are in affect destroying the game because people are only playing with the same people and have no interaction with the world at large.

wow i kinda feel exactly the opposite. i pug a lot, a lot more since the merge, and i like to meet new people, but if i was running with new people all the time i'd LOOSE interest fast. the only reason i'm still here is the deeper friendships and connections i've made with my guildies and my friends on this game, which only comes from groupoing with the same people a lot so you get to know them well on more than just an in-game basis.

i like your sig though :D


and ghallandan's avoid fernians? :( really?

i honestly don't know if i've gropued with a lot of ghallandans. i like the lhazar folks a lot though, even if they do do some things backwards, just because they were such a small guild oriented server that it's full of good players who can hold their own w/o going ''omg we need a cleric!'' which just makes me gag.

Lillitheris
11-25-2007, 07:12 AM
Amusingly enough, I know a lot of native Ghallandans that purposely avoid Fernians but seem to have no problem with Lhazaarans... I just try to build an extensive friendlist since I play a bit more than most...

Why is that? :o

Riorik
11-25-2007, 11:06 AM
Darn Ghallandans are probably elitist snobs!

Am in the same guild as Hannika - and it's kinda the same thing. For the most part we do things in guild but because of the raid loot changes, we're not inviting everyone under the sun if they're not a known handicap. We'd always invited extras to fill out parties when it wasn't othewise full, however. These days I have been levelling a new character and I end up pugging a lot more than I normally do. Really, that's been my pattern for the entire year and a half that I've been playing - heavy pugging to level then revert to mostly guildies for quests & loot.

Demitris
11-25-2007, 03:16 PM
speaking from the point of view of a very long time Lhazzy, the server started out the same was as most of the others, small and fast growing guilds with many PUGs. But around the end of last year the population began to change an in a sense mutate their ways. There was a lot of chest beating and egos cropping up around that time and people began to take exception to it, as a result they began to close in on themselves and run guild only with no intention of PUGing due to the hassle of personal egos and blame laying.

As a result the server closed down business to the majority of pugging and in doing so contracted in size as people got tired of the same old thing every day. While it is true that some sources saw us has being a larger server population than those of us that regularly played, it more so was the perception that the server was small because the majority would rather slit their own throats than PUG and so always stayed in their own small guild population. That said, some players and guilds were open to pugging and would actually actively recommend their members PUGed, seeing it as getting to know the general population.

So yes, Lhazz's were/are very guild oriented by nature, but also many have no left the game since those days and might come back for a week or so every few months just to see if anything has changed.

Hope that sheds some light on things. :)

Nataichal
11-25-2007, 09:27 PM
A couple observations:

The number of PUGs is directly correlated to the difficulty perceived in the quests. The easier it is, the less likely you're going to worry about having to carry people. I run out to ADQ and start clearing it solo, and if anyone happens to join my PUG for credit, good for them. But were I to take a crack at the new raid, or Perdition elite, I'd want people I know with me.

With the content becoming routine except Mod 5 which is still dubious, PUG groups have likely increased. However, you need the ratio of guild to PUG groups to have any meaningful data

reziel_deadshot
11-25-2007, 10:20 PM
HA, you say lhazaar doesn't have a very elite attitude...you obviously haven't ran with zorak (my guild leader) if you join the guild and he don't think your "good enough" then its the boot for you; im not going to lie, circle of might has a very elitist attitude but all of us can handle our own in quests and 90% of the time we run clericless if we don't find a cleric we know, or a guildy.

i myself admit i have a very elitist attitude..not going to lie, im not he "im the best and everyone else sucks" elitist but more of, screw you, we don't need a cleric handle yourself kind of elitist seeing how i zerg...on every toon. i much rather solo a quest even if i die 100 times rather then get a pug group that i know absolutely no one in....lol sorry. only time i join pure pugs are when im on a lowbie....

----> on that note...yeah well, CoM has quite an elitist attitude...more then others...but we at least get the job done efficiently and effectively.

rpasell
11-25-2007, 11:03 PM
HA, you say lhazaar doesn't have a very elite attitude...you obviously haven't ran with zorak (my guild leader) if you join the guild and he don't think your "good enough" then its the boot for you; im not going to lie, circle of might has a very elitist attitude but all of us can handle our own in quests and 90% of the time we run clericless if we don't find a cleric we know, or a guildy.

i myself admit i have a very elitist attitude..not going to lie, im not he "im the best and everyone else sucks" elitist but more of, screw you, we don't need a cleric handle yourself kind of elitist seeing how i zerg...on every toon. i much rather solo a quest even if i die 100 times rather then get a pug group that i know absolutely no one in....lol sorry. only time i join pure pugs are when im on a lowbie....

----> on that note...yeah well, CoM has quite an elitist attitude...more then others...but we at least get the job done efficiently and effectively.

Maybe you should submit a picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

SaberMonkey
11-25-2007, 11:10 PM
Maybe you should submit a picture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Haha, that rocks. Couldn't agree more.

Lillitheris
11-27-2007, 06:12 AM
Looks like we lost some posts thanks to the server roll-back :(

Anyway, keep those flamethrowers holstered guys.

Dogchair
12-02-2007, 03:18 PM
Well, I've PUGed alot. A native lhazaarian, I pugged for skill. My main is a cleric, and to me, pugged was a great way to test my ability to hold together a group not working well together. I actually got bored in good groups, not much to do.

I would definately say our server was very guild oriented, but I personally never had a problem running with any guild, except one. They had strict rules about booting non-guildies if a guildy came on, and so i avoided them, since it was just a waste of my time to get halfway into something.

BCB, last heroes, sanctus...I run with whoever is running what I want to do, even if they don't like my parent guild, which was EE and is now CoM.

I prefer at times the simple quick guild raids and groups, we get it done! I also prefer the sometimes chaos and uncertainty of PUGS!

Balance keeps this game fun for me, which is why I play. And still play.

Dumb Question: If you see an LFM you want in on, why do you send a tell to me asking me to invite you vs. clicking on the darn lfm?

I never got that. Show your interest by clicking on it. IMHO

Dogchair

Lillitheris
12-02-2007, 04:03 PM
Dumb Question: If you see an LFM you want in on, why do you send a tell to me asking me to invite you vs. clicking on the darn lfm?

I never got that. Show your interest by clicking on it. IMHO

Dogchair

I never got that either. Annoying.

Borcan
12-03-2007, 10:20 AM
I've started on Ghallanda in April of 06 and have been with the same guild the whole time. In the time before the server merge I would pug more than guild group. Because my play time is usally less then alot of my guild mates, it seems my toons were always a few levels below the rest of the guild. PUG's were pretty hard to come by just before the merge and seem to be getting more and more ruthless towards avoiding pugs. After the server merge though pugging has been sooo much easier and enjoyable. (Yes I was one of those in favor of the merge back then) And I noticed right off the bat that there was an influx of good people/guilds to pug with after the merge. These people obviously came from the other servers but which ones I"m not sure because I don't tend to go around and ask what server people are from. To me pugging is what makes MMO's popular. I mean lets face it, how long would you stay in an MMO in which people made it difficult to join groups because you weren't up to the same speed they were? Even though at any given time there are a half dozen to a dozen guildies online, I still tend to pug more than guild group. I've learned alot from being around others. Especialy of how NOT to act and play. So what does all this retoric mean? I think this server enherited "better" puggers from the other servers. It's much more enjoyable than before the merge.

Lillitheris
12-04-2007, 08:54 AM
I think this server enherited "better" puggers from the other servers. It's much more enjoyable than before the merge.

Hmm, this further confirms my observations. Lhazaar was/is very guild-oriented, Fernia was/is very PUG-oriented. So the "better" PUGgers are probably from Fernia, who are used to running in pick-up-groups all the time.

On to the next subject... does anybody know what the hell is DDO Korea? I know it's an all-Korean guild, but why did they come to Ghallanda? This (http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4606/screenshot00491of8.jpg) is the first sign of them, dated 24th of September.

Some of my most frustrating PUGs have been when I've joined a party of five DDO Korea members. They have their own tactics and when their communication is... lacking to say the least, I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do. What kind of experiences have you guys/gals had with DDO Korea?
And one more thing. Why do they have to talk Korean in VC. Get a Ventrilo server or something... I mean I don't talk Finnish with my brother in a party that has other people in it. If I had a mic that is :rolleyes:

philo
12-04-2007, 09:33 AM
On to the next subject... does anybody know what the hell is DDO Korea? I know it's an all-Korean guild, but why did they come to Ghallanda?

The korean servers got shut down a few months back. I believe there were chinese servers that got shut down possibly as well...could be one and the same.

ask them and they will tell you about it:P

Lillitheris
12-04-2007, 12:39 PM
The korean servers got shut down a few months back. I believe there were chinese servers that got shut down possibly as well...could be one and the same.

ask them and they will tell you about it:P

I tried once... I couldn't make out the words :D

Dogchair
12-04-2007, 12:43 PM
Hmm, this further confirms my observations. Lhazaar was/is very guild-oriented, Fernia was/is very PUG-oriented. So the "better" PUGgers are probably from Fernia, who are used to running in pick-up-groups all the time.

On to the next subject... does anybody know what the hell is DDO Korea? I know it's an all-Korean guild, but why did they come to Ghallanda? This (http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4606/screenshot00491of8.jpg) is the first sign of them, dated 24th of September.

Some of my most frustrating PUGs have been when I've joined a party of five DDO Korea members. They have their own tactics and when their communication is... lacking to say the least, I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do. What kind of experiences have you guys/gals had with DDO Korea?
And one more thing. Why do they have to talk Korean in VC. Get a Ventrilo server or something... I mean I don't talk Finnish with my brother in a party that has other people in it. If I had a mic that is :rolleyes:

Wow. I was actually liking this thread and then i read this. Wrong or right, you are entitled to your opinion. Let me address your opinions/statements by points.

1. They are an all Korean guild who lost their server.
2. Their communication is fine, if you speak Korean, since you don't, if you don't, I would suggest not pugging with them.
3. Duh. They speak Korean because it is their native language.

Personally I've had hilariously good times pugged with them, and some suck egg times. Same with americans, same with brits, same with aussies. Because they do speak Korean primarily, i applaud the choice of DDO Korean where at first I was annoyed. I thought it might be unfair, if they allowed some countries to do that and not others.. Would people complain about DDO south africa or DDO Iran?

Because its a language barrier and a lost server thing, i like it. It lets you know upfront, this person may not speak english, or english well.

Anyhow, they have a right to speak whatever language they want, regardless whether it is annoying to you. Don't pug with them, suck it up and move on. How does your post, or what your post implies help them, you or this game experience? I think you should have worded it little different to avoid looking like what you do, if your intention was to be helpful and informative.

-Dogchair

SteveK14
12-04-2007, 05:54 PM
I have found that PUGing has been sometimes agrivating, but mostly has been rewarding for the experience of seeing different levels and tactics of play. Many PUGs I've been in have ended with everyone saying "Great Group, put me on your friends list." "Look me up next time you are on.", etc. Some have ended with "name" has lost connection or "name" has left group.

My son and I started our guild to be a friendly, non-elitist type of guild. All are welcome, within reason, and all are free to leave. We try to quest with guildies, but it isn't "required". The guild list is a second "friends" list. That much more opportunity to quest with someone you know and have had fun with. The only times we run a quest shorthanded or clericless, is when a cleric isn't available. I guess it is a bit of roleplaying there. I see the party as needing balance and should be diverse. Everyone in the party contributes to the successful conclusion of the quest.

I like to PUG with newbies every now and then, sometimes you get a real good player, sometimes not. I pay a fee to play this game and be entertained. To have fun. When it is a chore to do a quest, it isn't a game anymore, nor is it entertaing or fun. Some people have lost sight of that, but that is to be expected. We are all human. (and some warforged, elven, dwarven, etc.)

And yes, we are from Fernia.

SteveK14
12-04-2007, 05:54 PM
Sorry, somehow it double-posted so I deleted this post.

Lillitheris
12-05-2007, 07:11 AM
Wow. I was actually liking this thread and then i read this. Wrong or right, you are entitled to your opinion. Let me address your opinions/statements by points.

1. They are an all Korean guild who lost their server.
2. Their communication is fine, if you speak Korean, since you don't, if you don't, I would suggest not pugging with them.
3. Duh. They speak Korean because it is their native language.

Personally I've had hilariously good times pugged with them, and some suck egg times. Same with americans, same with brits, same with aussies. Because they do speak Korean primarily, i applaud the choice of DDO Korean where at first I was annoyed. I thought it might be unfair, if they allowed some countries to do that and not others.. Would people complain about DDO south africa or DDO Iran?

Because its a language barrier and a lost server thing, i like it. It lets you know upfront, this person may not speak english, or english well.

Anyhow, they have a right to speak whatever language they want, regardless whether it is annoying to you. Don't pug with them, suck it up and move on. How does your post, or what your post implies help them, you or this game experience? I think you should have worded it little different to avoid looking like what you do, if your intention was to be helpful and informative.

-Dogchair

Whoa..

My main gripe is that they speak Korean in Voice Chat. I don't know about the customs in your homeland, but over here it is considered rude to talk a language someone else in your company doesn't understand. They could be calling me a ****** bag for all I know. "No whispering when in company of others", I don't know is there an English equivalent for that.

By the way, I don't (want to) understand your Iran/South Africa -analogy. I don't mean to attack Koreans as a people in any way. And to an even lesser degree non-native English speakers. Heck, English is not my first language either!

What makes me sad the most is the fact that, contrary to my initial experience, they are for the most part really good players. They have their own thing and do neat tricks I have never even heard of. At first I thought they didn't know what the hell they were doing, but then I realized they just have their own way of doing things. I just feel so left out when I can't understand their tactics and have to lag behind.

I like their up-front attitude as well. They often announce that they are not good at English from the get-go.

Anyway, I apologize if somebody was offended by my previous posts. I don't want this thread to be buried in flames.

Lillitheris
12-05-2007, 07:20 AM
I have found that PUGing has been sometimes agrivating, but mostly has been rewarding for the experience of seeing different levels and tactics of play. Many PUGs I've been in have ended with everyone saying "Great Group, put me on your friends list." "Look me up next time you are on.", etc. Some have ended with "name" has lost connection or "name" has left group.

My son and I started our guild to be a friendly, non-elitist type of guild. All are welcome, within reason, and all are free to leave. We try to quest with guildies, but it isn't "required". The guild list is a second "friends" list. That much more opportunity to quest with someone you know and have had fun with. The only times we run a quest shorthanded or clericless, is when a cleric isn't available. I guess it is a bit of roleplaying there. I see the party as needing balance and should be diverse. Everyone in the party contributes to the successful conclusion of the quest.

I like to PUG with newbies every now and then, sometimes you get a real good player, sometimes not. I pay a fee to play this game and be entertained. To have fun. When it is a chore to do a quest, it isn't a game anymore, nor is it entertaing or fun. Some people have lost sight of that, but that is to be expected. We are all human. (and some warforged, elven, dwarven, etc.)

And yes, we are from Fernia.

Good post, pretty much sums up what PUGs are all about.

I don't mind running with newbies; if they are up-front about it. Acting like you know what you are doing when you really don't is pretty weak.
It's okay to be new to a quest.
It's okay to ask if you don't know what to do, we've all been there.
It is NOT okay to do something you're specifically told NOT to do. Especially on a Titan raid. There was this one guy... :D

reziel_deadshot
12-05-2007, 09:37 AM
Whoa..

My main gripe is that they speak Korean in Voice Chat. I don't know about the customs in your homeland, but over here it is considered rude to talk a language someone else in your company doesn't understand. They could be calling me a ****** bag for all I know. "No whispering when in company of others", I don't know is there an English equivalent for that.

By the way, I don't (want to) understand your Iran/South Africa -analogy. I don't mean to attack Koreans as a people in any way. And to an even lesser degree non-native English speakers. Heck, English is not my first language either!

What makes me sad the most is the fact that, contrary to my initial experience, they are for the most part really good players. They have their own thing and do neat tricks I have never even heard of. At first I thought they didn't know what the hell they were doing, but then I realized they just have their own way of doing things. I just feel so left out when I can't understand their tactics and have to lag behind.

I like their up-front attitude as well. They often announce that they are not good at English from the get-go.

Anyway, I apologize if somebody was offended by my previous posts. I don't want this thread to be buried in flames.

well i do quest with a few of the DDO-k guys an awful lot but think...if you join their lfm...and you speak your native language (english more then likely) wouldnt that make you the rude one? b/c 90% of the time the DDO-k guys dont group alone in pugs, there is usually 1 or 2, and 70% of their guild cant understand english at all, and well cant type it either, so the ones that do understand english just simply translate it to those who don't.....

btw...mindflayer from DDO-k is a great guy actually understands majority of english and is very nice, not to mention he is quite knowledgeable and honestly people if any of you know me...that's saying a lot because i don't give compliments often...unless its on a pull...but then about 9 or 10 seconds later its followed by "what do you want to trade for it?" :D

Lillitheris
12-05-2007, 09:51 AM
well i do quest with a few of the DDO-k guys an awful lot but think...if you join their lfm...and you speak your native language (english more then likely) wouldnt that make you the rude one? b/c 90% of the time the DDO-k guys dont group alone in pugs, there is usually 1 or 2, and 70% of their guild cant understand english at all, and well cant type it either, so the ones that do understand english just simply translate it to those who don't.....

Well, these are the US servers after all. I don't think talking English here should be considered rude under any circumstances.
Are you just using the plural form of 'you' or directing this at me, I don't know. But I must reiterate that English is not my native language either :)


btw...mindflayer from DDO-k is a great guy actually understands majority of english and is very nice, not to mention he is quite knowledgeable and honestly people if any of you know me...that's saying a lot because i don't give compliments often...unless its on a pull...but then about 9 or 10 seconds later its followed by "what do you want to trade for it?" :D

I don't think I've grouped with Mindflayer, but the same goes for the most of em. Those who speak/type English have been very kind and friendly. No doubt the others are as well, I just can't make contact with them.

Avonwey
12-05-2007, 10:59 AM
On to the next subject... does anybody know what the hell is DDO Korea? I know it's an all-Korean guild, but why did they come to Ghallanda? This (http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4606/screenshot00491of8.jpg) is the first sign of them, dated 24th of September.


This statement offends me. What about our server makes it an unsuitable home for Koreans?

I've grouped with them many a time in PUGs, and found them to be wonderful. Yes, they speak Korean and their English is not the best. But if you start with the assumption that all players are there to have fun, you'll find it easy to communicate and you might actually learn something.

Dogchair
12-05-2007, 11:16 AM
Whoa..

My main gripe is that they speak Korean in Voice Chat. I don't know about the customs in your homeland, but over here it is considered rude to talk a language someone else in your company doesn't understand. They could be calling me a ****** bag for all I know. "No whispering when in company of others", I don't know is there an English equivalent for that.

By the way, I don't (want to) understand your Iran/South Africa -analogy. I don't mean to attack Koreans as a people in any way. And to an even lesser degree non-native English speakers. Heck, English is not my first language either!

What makes me sad the most is the fact that, contrary to my initial experience, they are for the most part really good players. They have their own thing and do neat tricks I have never even heard of. At first I thought they didn't know what the hell they were doing, but then I realized they just have their own way of doing things. I just feel so left out when I can't understand their tactics and have to lag behind.

I like their up-front attitude as well. They often announce that they are not good at English from the get-go.

Anyway, I apologize if somebody was offended by my previous posts. I don't want this thread to be buried in flames.

You weren't being flamed by me. I don't agree with how you said what you said, and the sense of entitlement you seem/appear to show. I also state you are entitled to your opinion. I also state that you might want to adjust how you state it to avoid looking like an (insert non-eula approved word), if your intentions were to not look like one.

All in all, that was the friendliest "flame" I ever did see. I re-state my point. If you see ddo korea, don't pug with them if you entitlement issues with language cause you to post inanely about them on the forums. As you point out, don't you think YOU might have been a little rude?

No bad talking koreans about speaking korean when they lost their server? Is there a Finnish translation for that?

-dogchair

llevenbaxx
12-05-2007, 11:23 AM
Some of my most frustrating PUGs have been when I've joined a party of five DDO Korea members. They have their own tactics and when their communication is... lacking to say the least, I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do. What kind of experiences have you guys/gals had with DDO Korea?
And one more thing. Why do they have to talk Korean in VC. Get a Ventrilo server or something... I mean I don't talk Finnish with my brother in a party that has other people in it. If I had a mic that is :rolleyes:

I started fresh after mod3 came out, deleted all characters made prior. Have leveled up all the characters in my sig primarily in pugs. Ghallanda was always great for pugs imo. Keeps it fresh, learn to roll with the punches/adjust on the fly type of play. While I just joined a new guild(which I have basically run with for months) who are pretty tight I dont see myself going away from pugs totally. Great fun to be had there.

Reason I quoted you is I have run with the DDO Korea guys more than a few times and quite enjoy it. They are competant players and like to move at a quick pace without really zerging. Some of them speak no english while a few speak pretty good english. All can understand english when typed it would seem. They have always communicated pertinent info in my experience with them, I would run with those guys anytime.

Furgulder
12-05-2007, 02:25 PM
I pug 99% of the time. Ive listened to Fernians complain about Ghalladrians and vice versa. Hehe I had a person tell me "I just grouped with a tank in your guild that never waited for buffs or haste, he just ran ahead and killed stuff without us." Knowing full well that I was the tank in question I asked, "well did he die? need lots of heals or screw up anything for the party?" to which they replied, "no but he was too eliteist to wait for help, you are a much better team player."

I would just chuckle (as we were doing lvl 5 favor quests).

I think all servers have good players, and all have sucky players. One person might have an off day, so I try not to judge too much when I group with people.

Lillitheris
12-06-2007, 09:05 AM
Dogchair, your post was great until the "is there a Finnish translation for that?" part. Why'd you throw that in there? There's no need to offend me. Just let it go, I already apologized. I'm not gonna reply to your posts in this thread anymore.

Avonwey, I should have worded my question better, I know. I apologize sincerely.

Furgulder, I have not heard of this Ghallanda vs Fernia thingy. Somebody brought it up earlier in this thread. Ghallandans must REALLY hate my (or any other zergaholic's) sorcerer then :D

Aspenor
12-06-2007, 09:53 AM
Hey, at least they aren't Canadiens....:eek::rolleyes::D:p

Dogchair
12-06-2007, 11:41 AM
Dogchair, your post was great until the "is there a Finnish translation for that?" part. Why'd you throw that in there? There's no need to offend me. Just let it go, I already apologized. I'm not gonna reply to your posts in this thread anymore.

Avonwey, I should have worded my question better, I know. I apologize sincerely.

Furgulder, I have not heard of this Ghallanda vs Fernia thingy. Somebody brought it up earlier in this thread. Ghallandans must REALLY hate my (or any other zergaholic's) sorcerer then :D

My post isn't great, or rather wasn't great. It's just what I think, and a recap of what I said. You are correct, i should not have added a poke at the end trying to recreate the poke you made at americans. I apologize for that. I honestly don't care where you are from, as in it doesnt affect what I think of you or give me a reason to think less of you.

I apologize for adding that.

I guess we are finnished?

-Dogchair