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View Full Version : 20 raid completion: improving the reward list



redoubt
11-10-2007, 03:14 PM
Can the system look at the raid items you already received and the tomes you have used and remove them from the possible list? This would still follow the basic logic of "no repeats", but a half step further.

For example, the reaver raid has 12 items and 6 tome options for 18 total. Reward list to be just under half would be 8 items. If you have the head of good fortune and a +3 con tome. The eight items on your generated list would be pulled from the 16 you have not received yet.

Thoughts?

roggane
11-10-2007, 03:32 PM
*sarcasm on

personally, i like getting no tome options for my 20th completion, mainly b/c there's no way you'd have All the items that you could use from the raid by then..... :mad:

*sarcasm still on.......

Starrloom
11-10-2007, 05:44 PM
/*sarcasm on

Whats even better is 40 times with no tomes - and only 1 +2 tome ever dropped before they made the change to drop only +3


/*sarcasm off

redoubt
11-10-2007, 05:55 PM
Ah... fellas, I'm trying to fix that. So I'm not sure why you are trying to derail this thread???

Lifespawn
11-10-2007, 06:00 PM
bad luck for you guys in the runs i've seen 7-8 +3 tomes drop in the last 15-20 runs i've done.

And to the op having the rewards take into account what you already have would defeat the purpose of a limited drop on the 20th wouldn't it they might aswell juast list everything and let you choose by that method.

It's essentially the same thing tho my example is to the extreme it'd also make people take items they don't need and couldn't use just so it wouldn't show up on their 20th run.

redoubt
11-10-2007, 06:44 PM
...it'd also make people take items they don't need and couldn't use just so it wouldn't show up on their 20th run.

I had not thought about that part. That could be tricky.

Still, after no loot in 20 some runs, getting a list that does not include an item you want would be very depressing. So do you have an idea to correct it?

WestiesMA
11-11-2007, 12:24 AM
I think ALL items and tomes should drop at the 20-completions point. If you choose a +3 tome or item that you already have, then shame on you!

Lifespawn
11-11-2007, 06:38 AM
the best thing to do i think is take out he lower drop rate on tomes and the other stuff people really want and make it a flat % chance on the 20th run right now everyone knows treasons and madstone shields drop the most and tomes have a lesser chance to drop if they took that out of the 20th run there would be way less people dissapointed.It would still happen unlucky rolls and all that but it'd be a much smaller chance and still really give people the incentive to keep raiding.

GramercyRiff
11-11-2007, 10:28 AM
bad luck for you guys in the runs i've seen 7-8 +3 tomes drop in the last 15-20 runs i've done.

And to the op having the rewards take into account what you already have would defeat the purpose of a limited drop on the 20th wouldn't it they might aswell juast list everything and let you choose by that method.

It's essentially the same thing tho my example is to the extreme it'd also make people take items they don't need and couldn't use just so it wouldn't show up on their 20th run.

Is it bad luck for those who don't get +3 tomes almost 50% of the time, or is it extremely good luck for those who do get +3 tomes almost 50% of the time?

I think this is exactly the point. Why should luck, good or bad, become a factor when you've devoted the time to do any given raid 20 times, much less 40 times? There is no difference between the person who is lucky and the person who is unlucky as far as time invested is concerned. It seems obvious that this system is flawed in that aspect. I personally think the random raid loot in th big chest was a good idea. I don't think giving half the raid loot list for every 20 raids is a good one. It takes a lot of time to get in 20 raids because of the timer. I think, at the very least, the full raid list should show up once, be it at 20 or 30 or 40 or whenever; the full raid loot list should be accessible to those who devote a lot of time to it. Luck shouldn't be an issue at that point.

woodspider
11-11-2007, 10:52 AM
I have a question, is it after ever 20th completion you get choices, or is it after ever completion after 20?

Thanks for the information, and yes, you should not get repeats, not less they are not bound.

Prinstoni
11-11-2007, 11:50 AM
Is it bad luck for those who don't get +3 tomes almost 50% of the time, or is it extremely good luck for those who do get +3 tomes almost 50% of the time?

I think this is exactly the point. Why should luck, good or bad, become a factor when you've devoted the time to do any given raid 20 times, much less 40 times? There is no difference between the person who is lucky and the person who is unlucky as far as time invested is concerned. It seems obvious that this system is flawed in that aspect. I personally think the random raid loot in th big chest was a good idea. I don't think giving half the raid loot list for every 20 raids is a good one. It takes a lot of time to get in 20 raids because of the timer. I think, at the very least, the full raid list should show up once, be it at 20 or 30 or 40 or whenever; the full raid loot list should be accessible to those who devote a lot of time to it. Luck shouldn't be an issue at that point.

I agree. By the time you finish 20 (or 40) runs in some cases, there needs to be a full list drop. Especially at 40, since you have already ran the quest for over 100-400 hours of play just to get that one item or tome. When you count waiting time, failures, and the 3 day timer it is a long time to wait/grind for half the list.

Just give us the full list including tomes every 20th run.

adamkatt
11-11-2007, 11:59 AM
I have a question, is it after ever 20th completion you get choices, or is it after ever completion after 20?

Thanks for the information, and yes, you should not get repeats, not less they are not bound.


On the 20th you get the raid loot only list.

woodspider
11-11-2007, 12:23 PM
On the 20th you get the raid loot only list.

So is it every loot after the 20th also?

binnsr
11-11-2007, 12:28 PM
So is it every loot after the 20th also?
no. every multiple of 20 gets you a list -- 20, 40, 60, etc.

Zarbryn
11-11-2007, 12:29 PM
So is it every loot after the 20th also?

No, you get the partial Raid loot list as your End reward every 20th Run. So 20th, 40th, 60th... etc.


***EDIT*** Binnsr beat me to it.

woodspider
11-11-2007, 12:34 PM
no. every multiple of 20 gets you a list -- 20, 40, 60, etc.

WOW. That kinda sucks, IMO it would be better to reduce it to 10 after the first 20 then to 5 for the remainder of the time you raid that dungeon. Who wants to run a raid more than 30-40 times anyway? (granted most ran PoP to death, But at least it only takes 15 minutes)

Thanks for the info, glad i wont be hoping for nice loot on my 21st time!

Shade
11-11-2007, 01:48 PM
Would suck because I got a sword of shadows back when the dragon just came out. Recently i've completely destroyed it due to permanent dmg, and also did my 20th dragon to get a fresh one.

With your system i'd possibly never see a new sword.

Lifespawn
11-11-2007, 02:38 PM
no loot should ever be guarenteed so what if you run the quest 500 times guarenteed loot means cookie cutter builds and people making builds just because they KNOW they can get what they want eventually.

artvan_delet
11-11-2007, 04:17 PM
no loot should ever be guarenteed so what if you run the quest 500 times guarenteed loot means cookie cutter builds and people making builds just because they KNOW they can get what they want eventually.

Life, if you think completing a raid 40 times and getting one guaranteed item will result in "cookie-cutter" builds, I'd have to disagree with that logic.

redoubt
11-11-2007, 04:23 PM
Would suck because I got a sword of shadows back when the dragon just came out. Recently i've completely destroyed it due to permanent dmg, and also did my 20th dragon to get a fresh one.

With your system i'd possibly never see a new sword.

Good point. Not sure the way around this one either. Most so far seem to say just bring on the full list. Don't know if that would be overkill or not.

Thanks for the input.

Lifespawn
11-11-2007, 05:40 PM
Life, if you think completing a raid 40 times and getting one guaranteed item will result in "cookie-cutter" builds, I'd have to disagree with that logic.

cmon there are people out there we all know and party with them.Every time you do you have to listen to how uber they are all the great loot they have blah blah blah this would just be another thing for those people to brag about they seem to have so much time to play 40 raids isn't a problem for them they'd have 5 chars with +3 tomes on all stats and would tell you all about it.I personally don't want things handed to me or any piece of raid loot guarenteed when you know something is comming it loses the mystery and anticipation.Radom should still be random but an EQUAL chance at all the raid loot on the 20th run would be better.

gpk
11-11-2007, 05:59 PM
Well I always felt that 20th run should be a complete list, and not random w/ diff items being weighted differently.
As a "compromise" though, I really like the idea that 40-60-80th etc runs should give you a COMPLETE lists, all tomes included.
40 runs is 4 months of raiding, thats a lotta dang runs what's the harm in picking ONE item from the complete list? I know ppl who have run the Titan and Dragon near or past 40 times and have yet to win (or even seen some cases) a Chattering or Helm of the Mor. As someone said, 40 runs does not a cookie cutter character make.
It seem especially "fair" considering diff items are weighted differently and that hasn't changed in mod5, if anything, now you are more likely to not see any of the "good" stuff.

brootus31
11-11-2007, 11:25 PM
My 20th run on my fighter, the best thing I pulled was a +3 INT tome. Yes, INT on a fighter. I had everything else I wanted, so I took it. On the bright side, maybe I'll be able to run the Abbot soon and die once!

Lifespawn
11-12-2007, 04:48 PM
and u get atleast 1 more skill point per lvl when the cap opens

juniorpfactors
11-12-2007, 04:55 PM
my soc got a +3 end reward tome...ya it was an intel..suck it up ...I ate it ...it sure wasnt what i wanted but ...its all loot tables...deal with it

redoubt
11-12-2007, 04:59 PM
my soc got a +3 end reward tome...ya it was an intel..suck it up ...I ate it ...it sure wasnt what i wanted but ...its all loot tables...deal with it

I'm hoping that is not the extent of your ability to be constructive.

There have been a few people who have posted constructive critisysm of this idea. Those provide a means to continue developing an idea. Those are appreciated.

I'm at a loss for how "suck it up" or "deal with it" type posts help us develop better ideas.

Please stay constructive and on topic.

Thank you.

LeLoric
11-12-2007, 11:52 PM
I would hate to see items you already have not show up on 20th reward lists. My rogue on his next demon queen will be at 20 and there is only three possible items i'd take, Wis tome ( the only +2 I dont have), seal of earth and the jerkky. Guess what I already have the seal and the jerkky.

I hit 20 on reaver on my fighter the other day and didn't get a +3 tome so ya know what I took? Madstone Boots. I already had 3 pair of these too.

juniorpfactors
11-13-2007, 09:48 AM
I'm hoping that is not the extent of your ability to be constructive.

There have been a few people who have posted constructive critisysm of this idea. Those provide a means to continue developing an idea. Those are appreciated.

I'm at a loss for how "suck it up" or "deal with it" type posts help us develop better ideas.

Please stay constructive and on topic.

Thank you.


IT is RANDOM loot.... what dont YOU get? the precious item you want so bad?...... deal with it....or change your Dice....its all rolls..... if you have run a raid 20 times and you have not gotten what you want...dont cry they change it...chalk it up to bad luck and rolls or just a large JINX...a hex... the raid system should not be geared to Help you get what you need....thats tangleroot and delaras

Lorien_the_First_One
11-13-2007, 09:55 AM
IT is RANDOM loot.... what dont YOU get? the precious item you want so bad?...... deal with it....or change your Dice....its all rolls..... if you have run a raid 20 times and you have not gotten what you want...dont cry they change it...chalk it up to bad luck and rolls or just a large JINX...a hex... the raid system should not be geared to Help you get what you need....thats tangleroot and delaras

I find you get better loot if you use the blood red die for fighters and blue die for clerics. Green seems to work best for rogues. Mages it doesn't matter, the loot is ****.

juniorpfactors
11-13-2007, 10:01 AM
I find you get better loot if you use the blood red die for fighters and blue die for clerics. Green seems to work best for rogues. Mages it doesn't matter, the loot is ****.

my soc is good at pulling bloodstones and disruptors and thats about it :) ohhh and +3 int tomes ;)