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Kalanth
11-06-2007, 12:35 PM
Knowing that CODOG has some ranged combat fixes in the works, and that I managed to pull a couple of ok throwing weapons (+5 Returning Daggers of Parry and +3 Returning Wounding Throwing Axe of Maiming) I started to ponder this idea again. I know it would never be a DPS monkey, but I know there are ways to bring that damage up and make it at least interesting (turning it into a DPS support character). I am mostly contemplating an 8 Fighter / 6 Rogue (12 Fighter / 8 Rogue at 20) build. Overall, however, I wanted to see if the community at large thought a Halfling thrower could be feasible and functional in the present and future of DDO?

Lifespawn
11-11-2007, 05:33 PM
hit me up ingame sometime i'll show u my thrower build

Kalanth
11-13-2007, 11:17 AM
I'll keep an eye out for him, Lifespawn. I remember a while ago seeing a Halfling Paladin that was thrower focused and quite effective. Not sure if that person is still around, but the occasional glimpses of hope are there that make me want to do this.

axebender
11-13-2007, 11:24 AM
ive been wanting a thrower build since release..but i always figured since you cannot dual wield throwing weapons it would be quite useless..but i would love to see a throwing build..ive come up with a few in my head..one halfling the other dont laugh..dwarf..only because i have some great throwing axes and i could take advantage of the axe damage and attack enhancement lines..if anyone have any builds id love to see them

Kalanth
11-13-2007, 08:12 PM
I relize it is not the most amazing build idea ever, and I know that what I laid out requires a lot of items (should be no issue to get with so many capped characters, though). This is the basic concept behind the halfling thrower I was going to put together. Overall the character would have a pretty good Dex to hit things, but would be more dependent on the use of stat effect items than straight damage. Weapon Finese was tossed in there just for those moments when he would need to go toe to toe with the enemy. How well he would do by end game, I don't know. Optimally I would have +6 Dex gloves and Boots of the Innocent to bolster the bad saves. A lot of the enhancements are there to boost the to hit with the throwing weapon and add that small amount more to the dmg.


Level 14 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(8 Fighter / 6 Rogue)
Hit Points: 136
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 12/12/17/22
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement Max With Optimal
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats Equipment
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 12 14 20
Dexterity 17 26 32
Constitution 10 10 16
Intelligence 16 17 22
Wisdom 14 15 20
Charisma 8 8 14

* Items for the build: Reaver Napkin for intelligence, +6 Str Belt from the Dragon and +6 Wisdom Helm from the dragon, +6 Dex Boots or Gloves, Constitution and Charisma items are optional and not considered requirements *


Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 3 8
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 0 0
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device 7 22
Haggle 3 16
Heal 2 2
Hide 7 15
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 5 9
Listen 2 4
Move Silently 7 15
Open Lock 7 27
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 3
Search 7 22
Spot 6 21
Swim 1 2
Tumble 7 16
Use Magic Device 3 5

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge

Level 2 (Rogue)

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons

Level 5 (Fighter)

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shot on the Run
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Rogue)

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw

Level 11 (Rogue)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse

Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device II
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock II
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

EinarMal
11-14-2007, 07:01 AM
The other idea you might explore is some kind of Bard/Fighter hybrid. That way you can get about the highest damage modifier possible. Something like Bard 10/Fighter 4 would allow you weapon spec plus pretty nice inspire courage bonus to your throws. You also would get the added utility of being able to buff the party and heal (a little) and some UMD.

You might have to skip shot on the run which is a pretty long chain anyway. The Bard buffs would actually offset that quite a bit and let you bring other useful things to the group. Eventually you could go something like Bard 14/Fighter 6 and probably pick it up later.

It is pretty easy to get 30+ to hit with a Bard...I am kind of hopeful that ranged combat is going to get some kind of buffing up in the future after reading some of CODOG's comments.

This way you can also keep yourself hasted for fast movement and throwing as well as hasting the group.

Lifespawn
11-14-2007, 04:39 PM
my build is the halfling batmanesque

10 ftr 2 pally 2 rogue soon to be 12 ftr when the cap goes up for greater weapon spec.

He has 28 str and 30 dex a 38 to hit with my normal weapon shot on the run,precise and improved precise shot (great damage boost)

saves with a 24 cha and some enhancments are

with gird
32 fort
38 reflex
30 will

has a decent lay on hands 230hp's without toughness getting that at lvl increase
46 constant ac averages hits 30-40 and crits in the 60-80 range.

If your going for a dps build this is not for you does decent damage but the best thing about this guy is his survivability great saves decent damage and good hp's with the ability to heal himself.

Effective umd is 28 so he can use alot of dvine scrolls arcanes get spell failure but will be better when i get the 7 fingered gloves.

If anyone is really interested in the full breakdown i can write it all down to post just have to rebuild him on the builder.

Kalanth
11-14-2007, 05:08 PM
I am certainly interested in this. The more ideas I get the better. :)

Bloodetter
11-15-2007, 12:07 PM
I currently have a halfling thrower build. names Peenut on the Ghalhandra server. she is 12 fighter and 2 rogue. only took the rogue for Evasion. i saw you were contemplating taking 6 rogue levels, and i was wondering why. the fighter levels will offset your disable device and other skills that are essential to the rogue class, making this a sub par rogue build. for mine i took the two levels of rogue for Evasion, being that i have her running around in +5 myth chain shirt. her stats are 28 str 28 dex and 22 con (scored a +2 con tome from the DQ). she has 308 hp, and a 28 reflex save. the other saves i forget being that i'm in a computer lab on campus. anyways, i took the 12 fighter for the bonus feats. with the two levels of roge i dumped all of the skill points into tumble, being that i took her the dodge, mobility, shot on the run, and spring attack for when things get alittle to close. the other feats she has are: weapon focus throwing, imp. weapon focus throwing, improved crit throwing for my banisher, weapon spec throwing, and improved crit slashing being that she uses scimitars if things get close. i hope this helps.

binnsr
11-15-2007, 12:15 PM
I tried a halfling thrower once, but found out that they tend to be front-heavy.

If you throw them headfirst, they go short and plow into the ground before hitting the target, whereas if you throw them feet-first, they tend to have an unstable trajectory.

After I hit the dwarf with the halfling instead of the mob, I just stopped.

Lifespawn
11-15-2007, 05:15 PM
here u go kalnath


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.75
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 14 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(10 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 166
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 15 22
Dexterity 16 22
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 9 10
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 13
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 13
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 3 6
Bluff 2 3
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy 2 3
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 3
Heal 0 0
Hide 3 8
Intimidate 2 3
Jump 2 8
Listen 0 2
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 0
Spot 0 0
Swim 2 6
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot

Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shot on the Run

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw

Level 7 (Rogue)

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Thrown Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Thrown Weapons

Level 11 (Fighter)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Thrown Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot

Level 13 (Fighter)

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck II (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Will)
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Attack II
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Halfling Thrown Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III

sigtrent
11-15-2007, 05:29 PM
I did this one as a request. Kind of a Tank/Rogue thrower. Pretty unusual. Not a ton of DPS but defenses are excelent. Great "puller" or solo character.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1330734#post1330734

Kalanth
11-15-2007, 09:26 PM
i saw you were contemplating taking 6 rogue levels, and i was wondering why.

I had a few reasons for that. The first being that I already have a Paladin hybrid in my stable, and I didn't want to recycle that trick again. :)

1. Evasion - It comes at level two and can allow for a four level swing towards other classes. I just all around like this trick for the builds I make because they tend to be low on the HP side of life.

2. 3d6 Sneak Attack - This slips in at lvl 5. If 2d6 is better than 1d6, then 3d6 must be better than 2d6. :)

3. Uncanny Dodge - You see this at lvl 4 rogue and it is a commonly overlooked ability in rogue builds. It may only last you 30 seconds, but a +4 bonus to AC and Reflex is still a +4. I use this all the time when raging on my Rogue 11 / Barbarian 3 as it manages to keep him at 37 AC before other buffs are added (Mithral body, 22 Dex, Shield Clicky, and Uncanny Dodge). I know thats not great, but for a THF Rogue I would say it is acceptable. :)

4. Rogue Dex II - Not critical to some, but if I am working with a dex based race like the halfling I would think that a +4 to Dex would be more desireable than a +3 (Halfling Dex II, Rogue Dex I). Besides, Dex is more the focus in the character I designed and gunning for more Fighter levels would only boost the strength.

I was looking more for the hit the target and do something style character than the hit the target and kill character, honestly. Commonly on my Str based Rogue that I mentioned earlier I am swinging with my Paralyzer or Destruction items to help the others in the party instead of going for DPS. Add in the sneak attack damage and you are still doing some nice numbers.

However, I am definetly playing around here, and nothing is set in stone. I don't know what changes are coming and if they will be able to really bolster ranged combat. We may see something with the level boost that jumps out and says, "Hey, look, I make ranged combat amazing and you need to try me out!"

ErgonomicCat
11-16-2007, 02:52 PM
i saw you were contemplating taking 6 rogue levels, and i was wondering why. the fighter levels will offset your disable device and other skills that are essential to the rogue class, making this a sub par rogue build.

Eh.

16 int is +3 skill points. 8/lvl for rogues. That's 11 total. With 6 rogue levels, that's 66 skills points.

Max per skill is 17 at level 14.

You can all but max 4 skills with Rogue 6, not using any fighter skill points. DD, OL, Search, UMD.

Edit: Hey! That build was for me. I never noticed it got posted!