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View Full Version : Solution to "Roll on my loot" problem --> You only see your loot



Montrose
11-06-2007, 12:12 PM
So after reading a few threads (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126225&highlight=roll+loot+raid) about the mechanics of raid loot as it pertains to whether or not people should roll for any loot that appears I've got a small proposal.

The biggest issue seems to be that some people see what's in the box and they decide that they want it, or that someone has a greater "need" for that item than the person to whom it is assigned. This causes frustration, aggravation, and the eventual posting of a message declaring everyone assbags.

Therefore, I propose a slight change which I believe will dramatically reduce this kind of frustration: You only get to see loot that is assigned to you.

Everything else about the looting mechanics would remain exactly the same. The only difference is that now you don't know whether or not anyone else pulled anything uber unless *they* choose to announce *their* loot.

If a player decides that they want the +2 bajillion spellpoint helm for their barbarian, mroe power to them. They will quietly loot it and all the spellcasters will move on with their lives. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

Throughts?

Note: (There were other example threads, but they appear to have been deleted as they discussed taboo subjects)

Winded
11-06-2007, 12:17 PM
Well read !
The only issue is the chat window showing loot, sounds like an easy solution overall.

Smacks a little of babysitting and coddling those that feel a sense of loss of control. You'd think adults would be above this but we know better.

Aspenor
11-06-2007, 12:19 PM
So after reading a few threads (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126225&highlight=roll+loot+raid) about the mechanics of raid loot as it pertains to whether or not people should roll for any loot that appears I've got a small proposal.

The biggest issue seems to be that some people see what's in the box and they decide that they want it, or that someone has a greater "need" for that item than the person to whom it is assigned. This causes frustration, aggravation, and the eventual posting of a message declaring everyone assbags.

Therefore, I propose a slight change which I believe will dramatically reduce this kind of frustration: You only get to see loot that is assigned to you.

Everything else about the looting mechanics would remain exactly the same. The only difference is that now you don't know whether or not anyone else pulled anything uber unless *they* choose to announce *their* loot.

If a player decides that they want the +2 bajillion spellpoint helm for their barbarian, mroe power to them. They will quietly loot it and all the spellcasters will move on with their lives. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

Throughts?

Note: (There were other example threads, but they appear to have been deleted as they discussed taboo subjects)

Beyond this, along with the trade-in-chest option have an option to show/hide loot. This way you can PROVE you really pulled a raid item if youre trying to trade it.

jjflanigan
11-06-2007, 12:19 PM
That's moving back to the way it was a long time ago before you got to see the announcement of pulled loot. I'm not sure if it was player complaints or what that made them add that in.

Yaga_Nub
11-06-2007, 12:19 PM
It's no fun without the drama so I'm totally against it.

oronisi
11-06-2007, 12:20 PM
So after reading a few threads (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126225&highlight=roll+loot+raid) about the mechanics of raid loot as it pertains to whether or not people should roll for any loot that appears I've got a small proposal.

The biggest issue seems to be that some people see what's in the box and they decide that they want it, or that someone has a greater "need" for that item than the person to whom it is assigned. This causes frustration, aggravation, and the eventual posting of a message declaring everyone assbags.

Therefore, I propose a slight change which I believe will dramatically reduce this kind of frustration: You only get to see loot that is assigned to you.

Everything else about the looting mechanics would remain exactly the same. The only difference is that now you don't know whether or not anyone else pulled anything uber unless *they* choose to announce *their* loot.

If a player decides that they want the +2 bajillion spellpoint helm for their barbarian, mroe power to them. They will quietly loot it and all the spellcasters will move on with their lives. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

Throughts?

Note: (There were other example threads, but they appear to have been deleted as they discussed taboo subjects)

Crappy idea that would only mitigate an issue that few are having, while penalizing everyone that plays DDO.

I love spotting what other people loot and being able to say 'Hey, nice pull on that vorpal!' I'm sure most guilds operate on the level of friendliness that they ask each other & offer each other loot, and your 'fix' would only hinder that. It's nice to have someone say 'that X you just looted, Y could use it if you don't want it'.

Montrose
11-06-2007, 12:27 PM
Crappy idea that would only mitigate an issue that few are having, while penalizing everyone that plays DDO.

I love spotting what other people loot and being able to say 'Hey, nice pull on that vorpal!' I'm sure most guilds operate on the level of friendliness that they ask each other & offer each other loot, and your 'fix' would only hinder that. It's nice to have someone say 'that X you just looted, Y could use it if you don't want it'.

Thanks for the feedback.

So, discounting your editoralizing I believe that your two points for retaining the current system are:

1) Vicarious enjoyment of other people's loot
2) Enabling quicker trades


Your first point is personal preference, which is entirely valid. However, I don't have a good sense of what the population breakdown is between people who would rather see loot for the vouyerism versus people who would rather not see loot to keep things moving along without drama.

As to the second point, it's not terribly challenging to say (or type) "+1 para longsword, anyone need?" That is essentially what happens now in all the guild runs that I have had the pleasure of being on. I don't really see this as a valid point.

llevenbaxx
11-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Great idea! Would only want to see this on raid chests though. On the normal ones I like to ask for +5 tools and whatnot, the players never seem to ask if anyone wants them and would normally just sell them/use them for an alt. Asking doesnt seem to hurt in that respect.

jjflanigan
11-06-2007, 12:37 PM
Thanks for the feedback.

So, discounting your editoralizing I believe that your two points for retaining the current system are:

1) Vicarious enjoyment of other people's loot
2) Enabling quicker trades


Your first point is personal preference, which is entirely valid. However, I don't have a good sense of what the population breakdown is between people who would rather see loot for the vouyerism versus people who would rather not see loot to keep things moving along without drama.

As to the second point, it's not terribly challenging to say (or type) "+1 para longsword, anyone need?" That is essentially what happens now in all the guild runs that I have had the pleasure of being on. I don't really see this as a valid point.

If we were able to link items out of the chest / inventory without having to put it in a trade window, then there would be no need for the current system "to enable faster trades". Could just link it out of the chest then transfer it to the person who gets it.

SneakThief
11-06-2007, 01:08 PM
As to the second point, it's not terribly challenging to say (or type) "+1 para longsword, anyone need?" That is essentially what happens now in all the guild runs that I have had the pleasure of being on. I don't really see this as a valid point.

Are you kidding? I can just see 12 people sitting around all saying/typing "Hey, does someone need X?" Talk about a colossal waste of time at conceivably every single chest.

Its far quicker to say "I left some stuff in the chest if anyone wants it, let me know", followed by a few "Ditto"s or "Same here"s.

If you want a UI option to not display you loot to others, well, I will stand behind choice every time, but don't bog down my zerging :D ;)

Kerr
11-06-2007, 01:10 PM
My preference is to keep looting the way it is now, and when people whine, tell them to grow the hell up.

Talon_Moonshadow
11-06-2007, 01:19 PM
LOL! But the forums were full of posts from people who were scared that somone else would run off with the loot they wanted, even before the change was in the game........and after the change tons of posts were written about the same thing, even though almost no one actually had it heppen to them!
People are more scared of the unknown than anything else....
And just like Internet dating, you fill in the missing pieces with your own imagination.

I suppose your idea will work eventually though, as people also have short memories and tend to forget about anything that is not staring them in the face the next day.

arminius
11-06-2007, 01:31 PM
I appreciate that you are trying to be constructive; however, this is too much effort to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

People are alleging that when person X gets assigned loot Y, and doesn't offer loot Y to everyone, then person X is very naughty.

I say, the people who allege that are simply wrong. People get assigned the loot they get assigned and do whatever the heck they want to with it. If they want to set it on fire and dance naked around the pyre singing the Sioux Ghost Dance, then they can bloody well do that. If they want to leave it in the chest and walk away, they can bloody well do that. If they want to take it and use it 2 times in the next 2 years, they can bloody well do that. If they want to take it home and put it under their pillow, they can't bloody well do that because, duh, it's just pixels.

No problem = no solution required. Everything else is empty useless verbiage.

_

Talcyndl
11-06-2007, 01:47 PM
My preference is to keep looting the way it is now, and when people whine, tell them to grow the hell up.

Second.

I like seeing what everyone else got. And if I really need an item, I'll ask if they want it. Seems to work well.

Dariuss
11-06-2007, 01:49 PM
I think this is a good idea

If it's ONLY for raid loot everyone else stays the same and you can see peoples loot and do trades and such. It's just the one piece of loot in .. what.. 5 quests?

And it would end the whining, well.. it would end the whining on this particular issue... possibly...

arminius
11-06-2007, 01:58 PM
I think this is a good idea

If it's ONLY for raid loot everyone else stays the same and you can see peoples loot and do trades and such. It's just the one piece of loot in .. what.. 5 quests?

And it would end the whining, well.. it would end the whining on this particular issue... possibly...

An even more direct route to the end of the whining would be for the whiners to, you know, stop.

A route that does not require a single budget line item, nor a single development hour. Nothing posted on a whiteboard, nothing to diagram out in Visio.

And better still--It can be implemented Right Now! What's not to like?

_

Perceval418
11-06-2007, 02:01 PM
My preference is to keep looting the way it is now, and when people whine, tell them to grow the hell up.

/signed

Joining one of the many guilds of mature people, and friending people to run with who are mature, completly eliminates the need for any drama at raid chests.

Perceval418
11-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Replying to myself... But i also disagree about the whole idea because it encourages greed. If a freaking barbarian with no caster class takes a pure caster item that binds on aquire, he SHOULD be reamed to no end and blacklisted, not able to quietly be a jerk.

Just my 2cp...

Edit: Also lets not forget raid pugs are hard enough to come by. With no pressure on people to share, you would see anyone who needs a pug running FAR fewer raids than before, cause nobody wants to group with anyone they dont know when that person might decide they dont want to share something useless or near useless to them.

Dane_McArdy
11-06-2007, 02:06 PM
Since telling people to grow up is completely usesless, because they just act brattier, I love this idea.

You could have a check box in the UI panel, Announce Loot or Be a Loot *****.

One makes it so others can see what you pull, the other keeps it hidden.

The less people actually know about what is only my business, the less frustration I will have with people.

good idea.

Dane_McArdy
11-06-2007, 02:08 PM
Replying to myself... But i also disagree about the whole idea because it encourages greed. If a freaking barbarian with no caster class takes a pure caster item that binds on aquire, he SHOULD be reamed to no end and blacklisted, not able to quietly be a jerk.

Just my 2cp...

And that's why this is a good idea. Because a person should be able to not feel like someone is going to attack them because a computer program gave him something, that he has every right to, since he PAID for that right to have a chance to get it.

You certainly wouldn't want anyone to run around calling you a griefer because you would advocate reaming someone? Because that is what I see this as...griefing a player for not living up to your morals.

muffinlad
11-06-2007, 02:08 PM
I would modify the OP's idea slightly.

Have a toggle for "Double Blind Loot Pull".

If you have this on, no one sees your loot, and you don't see theirs. This way, you can lessen the "I want that" messages if you are annoyed by them. There would still be groups that could "demand" you turn your toggle to on, but....you don't have to play with those groups.

I personally would never set the toggle for on, as I have no problems with telling people "no", frequently offer to give items to others (esp components, wands, scrolls and tools), and would gennerally not ask first for an item that was not offered (though I would ask for an item that is abandoned, like that +5 Transmuting Kama of Pure good, etc.), however I can see the point when people, esp PUPs, ask people they team with for the first time "Hey, can I have that +1 Shocking Cold Iron Scimitar of Pure Good" you just picked up for my lowbe?" and they barely know you etc.

Also, I understand not wanting to "loot bargain" right in the middle of an adventure. As long as it is optional, I don't have a problem with this.

Regs,

muffinlooter

Perceval418
11-06-2007, 02:15 PM
And that's why this is a good idea. Because a person should be able to not feel like someone is going to attack them because a computer program gave him something, that he has every right to, since he PAID for that right to have a chance to get it.

You certainly wouldn't want anyone to run around calling you a griefer because you would advocate reaming someone? Because that is what I see this as...griefing a player for not living up to your morals.

If i was in a pug raid (unlikley) and someone took a useless item to them, i would just quietly leave and never group with them again. But others would ream them, and i wouldnt do anything to stop it. A few raids like that and the person will have to reroll their toon or change theyre ways. Im all for people taking items they get that they can use, but if i got those goggles in the dragon on my sorcerer (cant remember theyre name) and theres one rogue in the group, what kind of a person am i if my "morals" tell me to take it and sell it for a few hundred gold, rather than give it to the player who needs it?

Its just a game, these are just pixels we are talking about, none of it matters but at the same time people spend hours on raiding and these raids. I mean, what would your guild do if you did something like that? "Oh its okay, id rather you have the 300 plat than help someone out and make our guild stronger". Chances are you would be kicked out, if not severely looked down upon and would have to explain yourself to everyone.

But this is the difference between humans and animals. Animals kill each other for food, humans share thier food so everyone can eat.

muffinlad
11-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Edit: Also lets not forget raid pugs are hard enough to come by. With no pressure on people to share, you would see anyone who needs a pug running FAR fewer raids than before, cause nobody wants to group with anyone they dont know when that person might decide they dont want to share something useless or near useless to them.

While I have no facts to back up my disagreement with your statement, I can only report my observations, and report on the conversations of every single raid leader I play with (about 12 different primary people on Khyber), and not a single one of them excludes PuPs. Not ever.

Not from my Guild Raids (The Free Companions), not from pure PUGS, not from guilds I occasionally act as a pup for (Ransack, Deathwatch Guard, etc.), and not from anyone who I know who raids frequently, is anyone reporting LESS raids now than before the loot change, all are reporting equal or more.

If there is less than 12 people, they try to get 12. Always. On Khyber I see, at a minimum 3-5 raids an hour in the LFG during prime time (5pm to 1am Eastern).

While your statement may express your presonal view, it sure does not reflect the reality of what I see happening. Could this be server difference? Playstyle Difference? Not sure.

muffinquestions

Montrose
11-06-2007, 02:20 PM
Thanks for the continuing feedback everyone.

I do agree that, ideally, this would be a socially solved issue. People would learn to let go and not worry about what other people were randomly assigned as loot. Unfortunately, I do not see the DDO community moving towards this, although I would be thrilled to be wrong.

Dane_McArdy
11-06-2007, 02:25 PM
If i was in a pug raid (unlikley) and someone took a useless item to them, i would just quietly leave and never group with them again.

That's all you need do.


But others would ream them, and i wouldnt do anything to stop it. A few raids like that and the person will have to reroll their toon or change theyre ways. Im all for people taking items they get that they can use, but if i got those goggles in the dragon on my sorcerer (cant remember theyre name) and theres one rogue in the group, what kind of a person am i if my "morals" tell me to take it and sell it for a few hundred gold, rather than give it to the player who needs it?

Its just a game, these are just pixels we are talking about, none of it matters but at the same time people spend hours on raiding and these raids. I mean, what would your guild do if you did something like that? "Oh its okay, id rather you have the 300 plat than help someone out and make our guild stronger". Chances are you would be kicked out, if not severely looked down upon and would have to explain yourself to everyone.

If you have to treat people like this or even think it's right for others to treat people like this over a video game of entertainment, I would question your morals.


But this is the difference between humans and animals. Animals kill each other for food, humans share thier food so everyone can eat.

You mean all those animals we pen up, breed only to be eaten aren't animals but something else? We don't share our food. When was the last time you got all your groceries for free?

Animals are honest in what they do. Humans lie. And sometimes apes that have learned sign language from humans.

Gornin
11-06-2007, 02:45 PM
Don't have this problem, didn't know it was a problem, ain't gonna worry about it.

Perceval418
11-07-2007, 03:44 PM
If you have to treat people like this or even think it's right for others to treat people like this over a video game of entertainment, I would question your morals.

Heh, many people would question my morals. Might take a team of philosophers to ever figure them out.


You mean all those animals we pen up, breed only to be eaten aren't animals but something else? We don't share our food. When was the last time you got all your groceries for free?

My friends and family feed me when i cant pay for my own food. Ive never gone hungry or been in need because i surround myself with people who share, and i also share when they are in need. Which while its just a videogame, how you treat people in the virtual world wont be much different from your attitude in the real world. If someone let another person go hungry when they had food and could clearly feed them, that would be messed up. So its a videogame, i say if you cant be nice in a videogame, you really cant be nice in the real world.


Animals are honest in what they do. Humans lie. And sometimes apes that have learned sign language from humans.

True animals are honest creatures, but with the rare exception of certain races or exceptional indivdual animals, they dont have compassion for thier fellows, dont care what thier fellows think, and will let you starve when they've gluttonized just because theyre afraid to give up even one scrap of food.

Besides we are really talking about ettiquette and ethics not morals. Its not morally wrong to call someone a a-hole for doing a a-hole thing, in fact it might be morally right to do so, that they can be aware of how they are treating others and consider if thats how they would also like to be treated.

Anyways its a moot point because people will do whatever they will do regardless if we can see the loot or not. Both ways of doing loot have potentially dramatic consequences, and no matter what anyone does or how compromising it is someone will be unhappy with the ultimate outcome for some reason.

All see loot = drama over what drops
None see loot = drama over who has what and what loot might have dropped
All see loot only if you toggle on = drama over people who toggle off and what loot they might have recieved

Ive only run a couple pug raids but in many cases theres some kind of drama/someone is unhappy/someone has to be pressured to make a certain choice etc... its never "oh well here i dont need it" its always "what will you give me, etc..." But my viewpoint might be skewed for that reason, cause i think all guild/friend groups are much, much better in almost every possible way.

Dane_McArdy
11-07-2007, 03:54 PM
Heh, many people would question my morals. Might take a team of philosophers to ever figure them out.



My friends and family feed me when i cant pay for my own food. Ive never gone hungry or been in need because i surround myself with people who share, and i also share when they are in need. Which while its just a videogame, how you treat people in the virtual world wont be much different from your attitude in the real world. If someone let another person go hungry when they had food and could clearly feed them, that would be messed up. So its a videogame, i say if you cant be nice in a videogame, you really cant be nice in the real world.



True animals are honest creatures, but with the rare exception of certain races or exceptional indivdual animals, they dont have compassion for thier fellows, dont care what thier fellows think, and will let you starve when they've gluttonized just because theyre afraid to give up even one scrap of food.

Besides we are really talking about ettiquette and ethics not morals. Its not morally wrong to call someone a a-hole for doing a a-hole thing, in fact it might be morally right to do so, that they can be aware of how they are treating others and consider if thats how they would also like to be treated.

Anyways its a moot point because people will do whatever they will do regardless if we can see the loot or not. Both ways of doing loot have potentially dramatic consequences, and no matter what anyone does or how compromising it is someone will be unhappy with the ultimate outcome for some reason.

All see loot = drama over what drops
None see loot = drama over who has what and what loot might have dropped
All see loot only if you toggle on = drama over people who toggle off and what loot they might have recieved

Ive only run a couple pug raids but in many cases theres some kind of drama/someone is unhappy/someone has to be pressured to make a certain choice etc... its never "oh well here i dont need it" its always "what will you give me, etc..." But my viewpoint might be skewed for that reason, cause i think all guild/friend groups are much, much better in almost every possible way.

I would respond, but it's way to off topic.

CSFurious
11-07-2007, 04:09 PM
i want to see who takes binding loot that is of no use to their character, i.e., is either an arse or just plain dumb

let's me add to my black-list & makes my DDO life a lot easier

muffinlad
11-07-2007, 04:26 PM
i want to see who takes binding loot that is of no use to their character, i.e., is either an arse or just plain dumb

let's me add to my black-list & makes my DDO life a lot easier

So, the person could play their toon flawlessly, help you with heals, contribute to the party in every way, but in the end, decide that his Cleric wants to keep "Cloudburst" or that his WF Mage wants "The SoS", and you want to exclude him from future runs with you?

Futher, someone could be a total waste of space, but gives up every loot item you ask them for, so they get to stay in party?

If loot is your primary priority in the game, you are making the right call I suppose. You are also making the OP's point, because they don't want people who are going to argue, or exclude others based on loot distribution, rather than on performance.

I would agree that LOOT is part of what we do. It is the reward. How people spend those rewards very often has nothing to do with how they helped the party succeed in any other way, esp for PUGS.

IMHO, If you are my Guildy, I want you to see what I am pulling, and I want you to ask for things I cant use. It makes the guild better, etc. If you are some "merc" we picked up...not so much, and I really don't care what you pull either. It is why "need before greed" on Raid Pugs never worked for me. If we team up once or twice in the history of the game, I really could not care less, and can't grasp why you would care about what I get.

If things work out and we team a great deal, yeah knowing what we pull is important. If you (or I) am just a warm sword arm, or spell slinger.....not so much.

muffinteamer

Talcyndl
11-07-2007, 06:06 PM
Don't have this problem, didn't know it was a problem, ain't gonna worry about it.

Same here. Guess I've been lucky. And that's with all PUG Raid runs.

Emili
11-07-2007, 06:18 PM
Except one problem... Let's say nobody sees the loot and a caster with 8 str gets a drop of madstone boots at the end of the reaver raid - and intends on trading it or rolling it off or just outright giving it to fighter X. Oh, but wait all the melee left as the caster had a phone call and the melee finished out while he was afk for a few seconds. It does not work well in a raid situation with 12 people just chatting along and such is confusing enough.

Sleepy
11-07-2007, 07:24 PM
I would respond, but it's way to off topic.

You've just stopped me from replying and probably getting infractions with that sentance. Thank you.

Animals have the same emotions as humans, you just cant see as easily as they're not human. But thats off topic too.

Anyway, I agree with those saying just grow the hell up but as long as this isnt a forced option I dont really care.

Citymorg
11-07-2007, 07:49 PM
I only have 2 rules on my raids. Since we frequently run a mixed group (about 1/2 guild and 1/2 PUG) this is the best method I have been able to come up with:

1. Whatever you pull is your's to do with as you like
2. Don't be a ****. If you are a ****, I'll remember. If you are a Barbarian and take a +3 Cha tome or a Sorcerer who takes the Sword of Shadows, don't expect to come on my raid again.

Cowboy
11-07-2007, 08:37 PM
I would like to see the loot toggle off and on myself. There are times when i pull something that needs to go to friend. so that i dont have to explain myself on why someone in the group cant have it. but if we could get it only on raid loot that would work for me too

NiasTrams
11-08-2007, 01:42 AM
All I run are PUGs, today during forming a Reaver Raid party me and two others were discussing this issue. The exact issue was in a previous run they had done a spell caster kept a pair of Madstone Boots that s/he knew caused Madstone Rage. Although I have no desire for those boots I piped in that maybe the caster was going to the buff all out and then go into melee combat. At this point the party started filling up and the conversation ended. But I did state that I would never tell someone what they had to do with their loot to those two players.

As far as having an option for our characters to choose showing their loot I would not object to that. I, myself, would not use that feature and I also like to ask for unwanted items on the chest that my current or other characters can use. When my cleric was leveling up he used to ask for everything others did not want it to be assigned to him so you could sell it to help recoup costs for wands and scrolls.

Sadly, the people most likely to be upset with someone for keeping loot are probably not going to come on the forums and read this thread that would be better called, "please don't whine, I want my loot".

MrWizard
11-08-2007, 07:48 AM
The best solution for the 'roll for my loot' is simply not to roll for loot.

It would be nice to have an option to not allow players to see your loot, but that really only benefits the new player who will get suckered by an experienced player who talks him out of that lame stat weapon that wounds and punctures..


When they killed the length of AOE spells, everyone was never gonna play their casters....now sorcs have become dominant and crazy powerhouses...and everyone is playing them...infact since the 'nerf of doom' casters have becomce uber powerful.

Enhacements were gonna destroy the game, everyone is gonna elave...wow, the enhancements rock and everyone is happy with them. Human verstility as a clickis still bites....but oh well....

Protection for 'potions' and spells used to be fully immune to any damge...oh my god, they are now timed and only do 60 to 120 protection...DOooooommm....um...no one even remembers that nerf anymore and we live with it.

They added runes to raids to deal with raid loot...oh my god, end of raids........ooops...new way became so important that a change to it is causing the same dooooom now.

Changing number of drops of raid loot to a guaranteed 2...to a possible chance at 12.....

Look, I understand two manning it is a bummer with no loot....the fix there should simply be a mandatory 2 item drop along with the random rolls....that ensures two to 12 items every run.

BUt that fact is....12 people doa raid and only 2 would get an item at the end with the old system...and that just bites...Why even do them? Now I see tons of 12 man raids....tons of them. all the time...and have seen 3 to 7 drop EVERY time I have run them....and I do not even like raids...

before the change I got almost nothig for end loot...the only time I did was when no one else wanted it cause they already had it...and it was usally an item I really could not use to full benefit.

now I have pulled a few items....and given away a few....

nope....this is not doooom...what will be doom is when they change the new system down the road.....now that will be dooooooom.

oronisi
11-08-2007, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

So, discounting your editoralizing I believe that your two points for retaining the current system are:

1) Vicarious enjoyment of other people's loot
2) Enabling quicker trades


Your first point is personal preference, which is entirely valid. However, I don't have a good sense of what the population breakdown is between people who would rather see loot for the vouyerism versus people who would rather not see loot to keep things moving along without drama.

As to the second point, it's not terribly challenging to say (or type) "+1 para longsword, anyone need?" That is essentially what happens now in all the guild runs that I have had the pleasure of being on. I don't really see this as a valid point.

But again, what do we really gain out of not seeing each other's loot? It's bad enough that we don't share loot like you would in PnP...I hate pushing a game towards a more single-player mentality, which is what you are suggesting. Also, I'm not just talking about high-end loot for trades. I hear people ask all the time for things left in the chest by others....scrolls, theives tools, and spell components.

I just don't see what we really gain out of the proposed system....efforts to stop whiners are like efforts to stop exploiters.....you can't stop them, you can only slow them down for a while.

llevenbaxx
11-08-2007, 08:51 AM
You mean all those animals we pen up, breed only to be eaten aren't animals but something else? We don't share our food. When was the last time you got all your groceries for free?

Animals are honest in what they do. Humans lie. And sometimes apes that have learned sign language from humans.

Where do you think welfare and food stamps come from? You and I.:) We do share and prop up the down trodden. The "only the strong survive" theory no longer applies to humans... at least not the ones where you and I live.:)

Far as not seeing the loot I think it would be bad. It makes me feel good to know at least if im not pulling ****, someone else is. Plus it would only further inflate the "I did 30 Reaver runs on elite and there was zero drops" thing. I like it just the way it is.:)

Lorien_the_First_One
11-08-2007, 09:36 AM
Part of the fun of the game is seeing what people got. Even if I didn't get something uber if someone else got some good pulls the run was worth it.

arminius
11-08-2007, 09:43 AM
Part of the fun of the game is seeing what people got. Even if I didn't get something uber if someone else got some good pulls the run was worth it.

Bingo! And while envy is a natural human emotion and one of the primary driving forces of civilization itself, "GIMMEE THAT, NOW, or I will Hate you, Hate you, I swear I will, you, you Big Meanie!" is something I would punish a 4 year old for.

I certainly wouldn't be interested in spending my precious spare time with someone like that.

_

Mearamar
11-08-2007, 12:33 PM
I am going to say this because other people say it in my idea threads. **It is a ok idea, but i would not want to waste time on it. I would rather see new content.***

It is a good idea :)

lostinjapan
11-08-2007, 07:42 PM
No, no no no and emphatically no.

Our guild prefers to use a need before greed/roll on loot system and so we do (we are not forcing any of you to use it so be quiet). Do not force something like this on us, please.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-08-2007, 10:29 PM
No, no no no and emphatically no.

Our guild prefers to use a need before greed/roll on loot system and so we do (we are not forcing any of you to use it so be quiet). Do not force something like this on us, please.

Need before greed does not equal roll for loot.

lostinjapan
11-08-2007, 10:35 PM
Need before greed does not equal roll for loot.

And this has to do with what?

I never said one was equal to the other, I said our guild used both.

Now that that is done and over with, get back to the topic...which was someone's suggestion that I am whole-heartedly AGAINST.

Auran82
11-08-2007, 11:17 PM
The thing I don't get is that in a PUG raid you don't have to give anything to anyone. No-one should be telling someone else how to play their characters and you never know how they have their character set up or what they will do in the future? Who knows that the sorc or wiz that took that Sos had THF feats and often buffed himself to the max, cast tensers and went at the enemy with a two handed sword in some quests.

Or that the 14 barb was going to take a few levels in sorc or wiz at the next cap raise, so those spell points will help him or that +3 Cha tome will help more then.

Just because you think an item is useless for a character doesn't make it so. Personally, if I pull something I would use I will take it, if it's something I will never use I am happy to pass it off. In the end, you pay to play the game too and in the case of raid loot, if you happened to have been chosen to receive that loot, no-one should really be able to tell you what to do with it. If someone blacklists you because they think they know your character better than you do, well, it's there loss I guess.

sylvester
11-09-2007, 08:42 AM
guild only raiders do not like not seeing the loot, so they now they think guild people will run off with loot?