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View Full Version : I've had it I'm Boycotting. I invite you to join me.



Knightrose
11-04-2007, 05:44 PM
I'm not running Dragon and Queen anymore. I'm so sick and disgusted with running the item pre-reqs for these raids repeatedly. (I have no problems running a pre-raid, but pre-reqs have to go). Great dungeons; not fun to repeat them ... every ... single ... time.

So I'm not running anymore pug raids for either of these on Sarlona. If you feel the same way I invite you to do the same and boycott this non-sense until is changed. We've been asking nicely for about a year now. I really think it's time to put these raids in-line with the others.

lostinjapan
11-04-2007, 05:54 PM
I've already boycotted the Necropolis.

While I agree with the repeated pre-req things needing to go for those two raids...if I boycotted them all I'd have left is Titan and Reaver.

Impaqt
11-04-2007, 06:11 PM
I'd be happy if they just made the desert quests easier to get to.... SHeesh, I spend more time getting to the quests than i do Completing them.....

Staedtler
11-04-2007, 08:49 PM
I used to 2 man the DQ every 3 days before mod 5. I haven't been back since.

On the plus side, I've been in many more PUG Reaver groups than ever before. I guess it's a tradeoff.

SableShadow
11-04-2007, 09:44 PM
Errr...nope. Since Mod 5, my usual shortman groups have dried up; only thing I get invited to raidwise these days is Dragon (for traps)...so... *shrug*

roggane
11-04-2007, 09:59 PM
already given up on these 2 raids. I can't stand flagging either of them.

titan & reaver only 2 I'll do.

Fallout
11-04-2007, 10:06 PM
The LFM's typically are "quest in progress, know the way". So people who don't know the way are screwed.

SaberMonkey
11-04-2007, 10:12 PM
I have already basically boycotted them, if on the off chance I do get flagged I will run them, but might as well just run Titan and Reaver. There are a couple items I'd like from both Dragon and DQ, but frankly, the pre-req's bore me.

Jomee
11-04-2007, 11:00 PM
I wish they'd change von so you could do 1-4 in any order.

QuantumFX
11-05-2007, 01:28 AM
I'd definately like to see the VoN setups rewritten to be non sequential. Perhaps another sigil like item that you can put written contracts for each of the Laughing Knives into.

DQ would be more fun if you could simply repeat the quest after being flagged. I'd definately like the preraid rewritten to go straight into the final raid. Perhaps where the 6 levers need to be pulled in order within 30 seconds of each other to access the first throneroom and then the actual raid when you go through the teleporter to the circle of eternity. Removing the boss ward on the gnoll archers and putting up the flaming force walls would turn it into a fun fight.

sirgog
11-05-2007, 03:55 AM
I'd definately like to see the VoN setups rewritten to be non sequential. Perhaps another sigil like item that you can put written contracts for each of the Laughing Knives into.

DQ would be more fun if you could simply repeat the quest after being flagged. I'd definately like the preraid rewritten to go straight into the final raid. Perhaps where the 6 levers need to be pulled in order within 30 seconds of each other to access the first throneroom and then the actual raid when you go through the teleporter to the circle of eternity. Removing the boss ward on the gnoll archers and putting up the flaming force walls would turn it into a fun fight.

I'd like to see the preraid turned into a 12-person quest (maybe take the quest as it currently is on Elite, call that normal, and scale up from there as 12 person groups are so much stronger than 6). And allow two options - run the three prereqs once on any difficulty to flag for one DQ1-2 run, or run them all once each on elite to be flagged forever.

Likewise with VON5-6 - make it so you can run VON1-4 once each on any difficulty to get one-time access to the raid, or get them all elite (including both VON3a and 3b) to get permanently flagged.

That said, no plans to boycott.

Lorien_the_First_One
11-05-2007, 06:22 AM
I wish they'd change von so you could do 1-4 in any order.

From both a playability and rollplay perspective that would make a lot of sense.

Mercules
11-05-2007, 08:08 AM
I'd be happy if they just made the desert quests easier to get to.... SHeesh, I spend more time getting to the quests than i do Completing them.....

But we have to have wide open exploration areas. That is what everyone was asking for at the time.... and I argued and argued and argued... They still put them in.

Yaga_Nub
11-05-2007, 08:23 AM
But we have to have wide open exploration areas. That is what everyone was asking for at the time.... and I argued and argued and argued... They still put them in.

This has nothing to do with the open areas. It has to do with the way that you have to get flagged. Even if they put them all next to each other it is still a pain to get reflagged because you have to run the quests over and over again. On another note, after you do them 9 times (or 10) you will get very little xp so then you're just running them to get flagged which is worse. I think all these flagging quest should have a set amount that they don't go below no matter how many times you run them. Something like 2500 xp or something.

maddmatt70
11-05-2007, 11:09 AM
I haven't done either the dragon or the demon queen since mod 5 came out. I am slightly interested in seeing the demon queen raid changes, but I have done those quests so many times there is no enjoyment for me in the prereque quests anymore. The raid loot was the only thing that kept me going into those quests, but a combination of not really needing anything anymore in those quests, the raid loot nerf, and as stated before lacking enjoyment in the prereque quests anymore has kept me from going back.

I do the reaver still quite a bit because it is so easy to just jump in and do it and I could still use a +3 tome or two and the odd reaver raid item. Titan after 40 runs I am tired of even though I would still like to hit 20 runs on my bard for the gloves (she has 10), but I don't know if I will make 20 runs...

Mearamar
11-05-2007, 11:13 AM
I agree.. I hate grinding them out.. Once is enough..

sigtrent
11-05-2007, 11:27 AM
Love you guys...

I don't wan to run these quests over and over.... I just want to run the one wiht uber loot over and over unimpeeded....

maddmatt70
11-05-2007, 11:35 AM
Love you guys...

I don't wan to run these quests over and over.... I just want to run the one wiht uber loot over and over unimpeeded....

My first choice would be to never run a quest twice, but that is not going to happen because there is not enough content in ddo..

Dirkan
11-05-2007, 11:37 AM
Agreed, I love the challenge of the new queen, hate the grind. Please make it simply pre- raid then raid and please add a bank in the desert.

tihocan
11-05-2007, 11:39 AM
The LFM's typically are "quest in progress, know the way". So people who don't know the way are screwed.
Yes, I put up such LFMs regularly. Fact is, I spent some time dying in desert by myself just to learn the way to the quests so I could join such groups myself. You can't expect someone to guide you everytime.
On another hand, I also usually don't put "know the way" until I'm omw to the quest, so the first few people to join are offered guidance ;)

Now, back to the topic:
- I don't mind doing VoN1-4 everytime. It's a 1h / 1h30 run depending on group, which really isn't that bad
- I don't want to see the pre-reqs for DQ being dropped. It just has too many nice items that would become much too easily available if it happened. However flagging is much too long IMHO, so I'd suggest to keep the 6 man, but also change the 3 quest prereq into a single quest. For instance the first time we can give a single item of our choice, then for our second run we need to give another of the two remaining items, then on our third run we need to give the last item. On our 4th it resets to the item of our choice, etc.

Tanka
11-05-2007, 11:39 AM
DQ I don't mind. You can at least pick up pre-req items while your timer is active.

VoNs, though, I'm tired of running. You cannot repeat the 4 (which must be done sequentially, mind you) until your timer is up.

I dislike that with a passion.

If any need to be changed, it most definitely should be the VoNs. DQ should be as well, but that one I won't hold my breath over.

Issip
11-06-2007, 10:39 AM
I would be fine with the flagging if they hadn't taken away the loot. If we could 4-5 man the dragon (reasonable as it's a lvl 10 raid and we are lvl 14 toons) and share 2 pieces of loot as we could before, I'd be fine with it.

Since we now have a 1 in 6 chance of getting loot (say you want 2 of the 20 items - you have a 1/6*2/20 = 1 in 60 chance of getting an item you want.).

You could take away all flag requirements and people could farm it like the reaver (most boring loot run in the history of DDO), but I for one would rather have to do the stupid pre-reqs and have a reasonable chance of getting the loot I want.

Raiding in general has become the most boring thing in the game to me. I have done about 6-7 raids on elite since the loot change, and of course gotten nothing. I know the odds are so ridiculously stacked against me before I start, so the +2 sacred docent of lesser acid guard doesn't even disappoint me - I'm expecting it.

The flagging has become a non-issue to me as the lack of loot has already made the raid itself not worth doing, much less the pre-requisite quests.

Habibi
11-06-2007, 12:52 PM
What you guys are lacking is the business sense on why they do things. They were never supposed to even last this long in the MMO arena with this game. So by slowing you down and making things repetitive they are accomplishing their goal which is to keep you RUNNING. PURSUEING. If you guys can't see this and know what they are trying to do then go play another game. They know what they are doing and they also know that if you got everything in a month or two time their account base would drop off significantly as players would bail and go play another game. With so many players already verbally saying they are jumping ship when Age of Conan comes out or Warhammer the end is near. I think only the most die hard DnD fans will stick around next year. And besides is this game really DnD anymore anyways??? Well to me it isn't but I'm sure everybody has their own opinion on the matter.

Riggs
11-07-2007, 10:50 PM
After about 1000 posts of people being sick of running vons 1-4 and the 3 pre-queen quests - you would think at some point there would be a response.

Combined with the new low low odds of actually getting something....sure is a good way to watch enthusiasm wane.

Lillitheris
11-08-2007, 05:16 AM
I always thought it made no sense to have 6-man pre-reqs to a 12-man raid.
So at the very least they should remove all 6-man parts from the re-flagging progress. That would leave us with:

Velah: VoN5-6
Titan: Forge&Titan (as is)
Lailat: ADQ2 (having to do ADQ1 would be okay, though not optimal)
Reaver: Reaver (as is)
Abbott: Abbott (as is)

SneakThief
11-08-2007, 11:42 AM
I have already joined the boycott of Pre-reqs.

I will only run Vons on level 8-12 characters for the XP.
I only run DQ reqs if someone needs help getting them on elite for favor. If I happen to have the items AND the guild is doing a run, then maybe.

Until I dont have to do pre-reqs, it will be Titan and Reaver (and Abbott once fixed).

Titan is the best model IMO. Pre-reqs once, then 2 part raid.

Separate Von1-4 from 5-6 in the quest journal and make it so we only have to do 5-6.
Remove the items requirement from DQ.

Then, and only then, I will be happy to add DQ 1&2, and Vons 5&6 to my semi-weekly raid runs.

Alavatar
11-08-2007, 12:21 PM
Why are people upset about RAID pre-reqs, but no one ever mentions chain quests such as Greymoon & CO6, or TR, or STK, or Delera's, or Threnal?

If the chain quests are ok, then why are RAID pre-reqs any different?

Gornin
11-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Why are people upset about RAID pre-reqs, but no one ever mentions chain quests such as Greymoon & CO6, or TR, or STK, or Delera's, or Threnal?

If the chain quests are ok, then why are RAID pre-reqs any different?

Because once you get a chain quest on elite you don't ever have to do it again. We only want to do the raid, and hate having to run the pre req's over and over ad nauseum to do it. Turbine set the precedent by not requiring the pre req's on 3 of the raids. We just want the others to be changed to that format.

Braegan
11-08-2007, 01:16 PM
Hmmm, perhaps after I get my KDS I'll join you. Honestly Von isn't that bad to run, good group commited to a speed run can burn through it all pretty quick like. The DQ is a little more time consumming but eh still not real bad. I think what they have now as a balance of some raids require re-flagging and others that do not is a fine mix.

Alavatar
11-08-2007, 01:18 PM
Because once you get a chain quest on elite you don't ever have to do it again. We only want to do the raid, and hate having to run the pre req's over and over ad nauseum to do it. Turbine set the precedent by not requiring the pre req's on 3 of the raids. We just want the others to be changed to that format.

Am I missing something? If you do Delera's on elite you still have to repeat it in order to do the Necromancer's Lair. If you do Threnal on Elite you still need to do it all over again before doing South again.

Neon_Budz
11-08-2007, 01:28 PM
I agree that the Prereqs for DQ and Dragon can be a pain in the ass.

If done properly, both the VoNs and Desert Prereqs can completed in their entirety in under an hour.

Our Guild has started a weekly event we call "Dragon Races" in order to generate some excitement and put some flavor back into the VoNs. The rules are simple, form a Raid group and have everyone role a d20. 2 Highest Roles become team "Captains." You then pick teams just like you did for Kickball back in 2nd grade. (Use the PvP red and blue flag denotations to keep track of who gets picked ;) ). Everyone involved in the race MUST be on the quest and MUST advance accordingly or default their entire team. (This prevents players from clearing dungeons in advance, etc.)

Our Guild is comprised of players that all have multiple high lvl toons, so we are not restricted to picking our teams based on character class, but rather on the individual players as we can all fill any role needed based on the party's needs. This could be a potential drawback for some groups however.

Once the teams are set, we gather in the Everfull and give a 1,2,3 go. At that point, it becomes a zergfest like no other and the hilarity ensues.

Losing Team runs VoN 5 naked.

No matter what game you are playing, players will undoubtedly consume content faster than it can be coded and released. The only alternative Devs are afforded is to make certain things of value subject to the "grind." It is times like these when you must use your own creativity to keep things fresh, interesting, and most of all FUN!

Fixx
11-08-2007, 03:44 PM
I'd be happy if they just made the desert quests easier to get to.... SHeesh, I spend more time getting to the quests than i do Completing them.....

Yes ... Let us complete once and then teleport to quest. Thats at least fair.