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juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 02:49 PM
the death of the boards=the lack of direction and feeback is just sad...I see no reason to log into this site and I think the lack of relavent feedback from any Dev on content change or direction = understaffed and internal confusion. this is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS how are you letting it die I just cant understand=

time for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE II complete restart in new area and back to lvl 1

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 03:05 PM
the death of the boards=the lack of direction and feeback is just sad...I see no reason to log into this site and I think the lack of relavent feedback from any Dev on content change or direction = understaffed and internal confusion. this is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS how are you letting it die I just cant understand=

time for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE II complete restart in new area and back to lvl 1

Except for all the posts from Codog and Eladrin...you know that direct communication we've been getting from the developers.

I wish the doomsayers on these forums would start actually using facts for their complaints rather than just spouting off nonsense that has no basis in reality. That is going to be the death of the boards...people who can't read and just spout off opinions as if they are facts.

DZX
10-25-2007, 03:06 PM
the death of the boards=the lack of direction and feeback is just sad...I see no reason to log into this site and I think the lack of relavent feedback from any Dev on content change or direction = understaffed and internal confusion. this is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS how are you letting it die I just cant understand=

time for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE II complete restart in new area and back to lvl 1

Right. Because that whole town hall meeting where they answered nearly every question asked (Transcript Posted), the information about rogue abilities and all these other posts that they have been answering lately is not only heralding the death of the boards, but it clearly shows that we are getting little to no communication from them :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

If anything it seems to be they are giving more information out now and beginning to answer our direction questions more often and this is coming from someone (Me) who for the last 6 months has been screaming the glass is half empty.

At this point I say things are looking up for the game in more ways than one. But there is plenty of pessimism pie for all who want to consume it.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:21 PM
ya i really care that they are "fixing rapid reload" I mean what is that doing for the population...and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... what I am saying is we waited for months for mod 5 another necropolis masterpiece ...everyone thought it was a bad idea ....noone ever went back to necropolis unless it was favor...hmmm lets build a rat quest/ maybe a quest were we throw water around and take stat damage...... this is D&D the game ....and this is all they can come out with...

hey fyi...they are gonna fix rapid reload!!!!:eek:

Allasar
10-25-2007, 03:24 PM
the death of the boards=the lack of direction and feeback is just sad...I see no reason to log into this site and I think the lack of relavent feedback from any Dev on content change or direction = understaffed and internal confusion. this is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS how are you letting it die I just cant understand=

time for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE II complete restart in new area and back to lvl 1

No - death of the boards = the daily quota of rudeness and geneal cr*p put out by a vocal minority of the populace that makes it not worth wading through.

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 03:25 PM
ya i really care that they are "fixing rapid reload" I mean what is that doing for the population...and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... what I am saying is we waited for months for mod 5 another necropolis masterpiece ...everyone thought it was a bad idea ....noone ever went back to necropolis unless it was favor...hmmm lets build a rat quest/ maybe a quest were we throw water around and take stat damage...... this is D&D the game ....and this is all they can come out with...

hey fyi...they are gonna fix rapid reload!!!!:eek:

Yes, the 400+ posts and 22,000+ views shows that no one in the populace cares about the ranged combat issues...

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:29 PM
No - death of the boards = the daily quota of rudeness and geneal cr*p put out by a vocal minority of the populace that makes it not worth wading through.


ya there are a lot of ways to phrase it but basically this board is useless now ...there used to be valuable information and individuals answered ?s now its...."the raid ...../ the raid loot system...."

gone are the build ideas, trades and game theory discussions

I am not saying doom I have no interest in other games...I just wish we could get better enjoyable content...=giant area

DZX
10-25-2007, 03:31 PM
ya i really care that they are "fixing rapid reload" I mean what is that doing for the population...and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... what I am saying is we waited for months for mod 5 another necropolis masterpiece ...everyone thought it was a bad idea ....noone ever went back to necropolis unless it was favor...hmmm lets build a rat quest/ maybe a quest were we throw water around and take stat damage...... this is D&D the game ....and this is all they can come out with...

hey fyi...they are gonna fix rapid reload!!!!:eek:

I guess instead of having an interesting puzzle quest (the rat maze) and a new obstacle (the diseased water) you would rather just have quests where you mindlessly hack at every mob or just firewall the **** out of everything? I am really happy about these quests being added, its something a bit different. Amazingly revolutionary? Maybe not but different and fun nonetheless. The only complaint I have is overall I am sick of undead and hopefully the next few mods will be completely undead free (Please Turbine).

But if your thinking Mod 5 was a waste of time then there are tons of other MMO's out there. Maybe one of those would better fit what your looking for?

Oh and only people I have ever heard complain about the rat and water quests are those who just want to get into the quest, get their chest and get out.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:31 PM
Yes, the 400+ posts and 22,000+ views shows that no one in the populace cares about the ranged combat issues...

those people just feel warm and fuzzy that a dev actually wants to discuss the game.....vs getting 1 lined "dont die":eek:

there is nothing else to read on the dev tracker...other than closed threads of people leaving the game

Zenako
10-25-2007, 03:33 PM
ya i really care that they are "fixing rapid reload" I mean what is that doing for the population...and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... what I am saying is we waited for months for mod 5 another necropolis masterpiece ...everyone thought it was a bad idea ....noone ever went back to necropolis unless it was favor...hmmm lets build a rat quest/ maybe a quest were we throw water around and take stat damage...... this is D&D the game ....and this is all they can come out with...

hey fyi...they are gonna fix rapid reload!!!!:eek:

Fixing ranged attacks in general has been an issue with a LOT of people for some time.

Creating ingame events has been an interest for a LOT of people for some time. A lot of people have been asking for a more dynamic enviroment, and this is one way to get that rolling.

Some people actually enjoy the Necropolis, all the parts of it. Believe it or not some people find the Giant Hold quests extremely boring to run. SO not EVERYONE thought the new quests were a "bad idea". Perhaps those people you run with did, but those I run with did not. I enjoyed that the new necro quests involved something new, not more of the same. There are ways to dealing with the unholy water. Figure it out. There are challenges to those quests, that make them interesting. Not every quest has to be: See Giant, Run up to Giant, Swing nasty Sword at Giant, Kill Giant. Next.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:35 PM
I guess instead of having an interesting puzzle quest (the rat maze) and a new obstacle (the diseased water) you would rather just have quests where you mindlessly hack at every mob or just firewall the **** out of everything? I am really happy about these quests be added, its something a bit different. Amazingly revolutionary? Maybe not but different and fun nonetheless. The only complaint I have is overall I am sick of undead and hopefully the next few mods will be completely undead free (Please Turbine).

But if your thinking Mod 5 was a waste of time then there are tons of other MMO's out there. Maybe one of those would better fit what your looking for?

Oh and only people I have ever heard complain about the rat and water quests are those who just want to get into the quest, get their chest and get out.


i would rather play the raid like it was...kill something god like...not play asteroids...blind man walking...or frogger...I want to kill GODS I want gold... I want a challenge....they almost had it right...then they overhauled it and cant seem to realize it was a horrible mistake

DZX
10-25-2007, 03:37 PM
there is nothing else to read on the dev tracker...other than closed threads of people leaving the game

*Looks At Devtracker* Looks like there is a bunch of threads discussing various issues and features and very few to none up about Whiner 7,654 leaving or Jerk 67,896 getting a thread closed.

Yeah some days the tracker is flooded with garbage, they have already assured us that stuff will be filtered out as we have stated before there is plenty of back and forth communication going out right now. But you just don't see this, so its best not to waste any more time with you. Good day.

Impaqt
10-25-2007, 03:37 PM
ya i really care that they are "fixing rapid reload" I mean what is that doing for the population...and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... what I am saying is we waited for months for mod 5 another necropolis masterpiece ...everyone thought it was a bad idea ....noone ever went back to necropolis unless it was favor...hmmm lets build a rat quest/ maybe a quest were we throw water around and take stat damage...... this is D&D the game ....and this is all they can come out with...

hey fyi...they are gonna fix rapid reload!!!!:eek:

You realize Today is the first day of Voting/Nominating for a FORUM Contenst thats been going on for about a Month now right?:rolleyes:

Takllin
10-25-2007, 03:40 PM
I dont see why this thread is made, there are questions being answered, they even held an open meeting for the players to ask questions, is that not good enough. For however long it went you could ask questions, now some of them cant be answered but alot can, it was the gamers turn to ask them the questions and get a direct response, instead of waiting a couple days or alot longer. The mods may be alot slower than before but do you want to program all this stuff? put yourself in there shoes, what they deal with, what they can and cant say, what deadlines they have, what restrictions they have when they create new content. Unless you are one of them you dont know what its like. and not to mention they have to deal with all the **** the doomsayers put on the forums like this thread.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:41 PM
You realize Today is the first day of Voting/Nominating for a FORUM Contenst thats been going on for about a Month now right?:rolleyes:


can I cut in line .... :rolleyes:


GIVE ME RAIDS ....GIVE me TS type raids....if people want rats fine they have them...if people want water to throw around fine have it...to me waste of DEV time/ bad ideas....glad there are 6 of you that can group and do it ...I would rather get a root canal:eek: if you want housing fine...go sit in it...if you want mass events fine have them

this is not doomsayers...give me 1 pcs of useful info you got out of your town meeting.....? " they are gonna make housing" " monks out in the spring" come on .........just build quests ...hell they can build them after the old modules ..that would be neat

Zenako
10-25-2007, 03:45 PM
i would rather play the raid like it was...kill something god like...not play asteroids...blind man walking...or frogger...I want to kill GODS I want gold... I want a challenge....they almost had it right...then they overhauled it and cant seem to realize it was a horrible mistake

Ok, so unlike the other raids which have no Puzzles to solve or Special switches to flip, or Jumps to make, or magic beans to drop in barrels first, or come on, take your pick. Every Raid so far has requirements in it that exist merely to make the quest a challenge. Tempest Spine, you CANNOT kill Sorjek until you solve a magic puzzle he is standing on and drop beans in the three urns. Oh yeah. Reaver, you must somehow manage to fight the Reaver, (but not kill him too fast) so he will trigger 7 spinning globes that will let someone fly to a lever so you can then play a choice game and trigger the disarm of a trap. Oh yeah.

How often have we all read how EASY these quests were, how XYZ could solo it and everyone who could not was "lame". So now they have made a raid quest quite hard, so would almost say impossible and almost all we read is whining about how we can't do it anymore. Well if all you really wanted was a nice EASY button, let them know, but by and large the complaints from the uber players was that everything was too easy, we want something harder to challenge us. Granted if it challenges them, then most other players might find the challenge too great.

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 03:46 PM
can I cut in line .... :rolleyes:


GIVE ME RAIDS ....GIVE me TS type raids....if people want rats fine they have them...if people want water to throw around fine have it...to me waste of DEV time/ bad ideas....glad there are 6 of you that can group and do it ...I would rather get a root canal:eek: if you want housing fine...go sit in it...if you want mass events fine have them

this is not doomsayers...give me 1 pcs of useful info you got out of your town meeting.....? " they are gonna make housing" " monks out in the spring" come on .........just build quests ...hell they can build them after the old modules ..that would be neat

Ok, so you just made up the garbage about the death of the forums / game so that you'd have some attention when you made the, very common, statement about wanting more TS style raids. Good to know.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:51 PM
Ok, so you just made up the garbage about the death of the forums / game so that you'd have some attention when you made the, very common, statement about wanting more TS style raids. Good to know.


I love the game...I want more enjoyable quests that I can enjoy with a pug or guild that are challenge...Heck I would still want to do the raid but to convince or even see guild doing it now...virtually a no go

but day after day people leave...we have to find a way to Build the game ... to gather others attention and want to play it

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Ok, so unlike the other raids which have no Puzzles to solve or Special switches to flip, or Jumps to make, or magic beans to drop in barrels first, or come on, take your pick. Every Raid so far has requirements in it that exist merely to make the quest a challenge. Tempest Spine, you CANNOT kill Sorjek until you solve a magic puzzle he is standing on and drop beans in the three urns. Oh yeah. Reaver, you must somehow manage to fight the Reaver, (but not kill him too fast) so he will trigger 7 spinning globes that will let someone fly to a lever so you can then play a choice game and trigger the disarm of a trap. Oh yeah.

How often have we all read how EASY these quests were, how XYZ could solo it and everyone who could not was "lame". So now they have made a raid quest quite hard, so would almost say impossible and almost all we read is whining about how we can't do it anymore. Well if all you really wanted was a nice EASY button, let them know, but by and large the complaints from the uber players was that everything was too easy, we want something harder to challenge us. Granted if it challenges them, then most other players might find the challenge too great.


agree with everything you say...BUT why is it the PUZZLES that maket the raid the challenge ...IT IS NOT BASED ON D&D...let the D&D be hard/ if not impossible......let the god kill me not the fact that i am running around like "Helen Keller"

Impaqt
10-25-2007, 03:57 PM
can I cut in line .... :rolleyes:


GIVE ME RAIDS ....GIVE me TS type raids....if people want rats fine they have them...if people want water to throw around fine have it...to me waste of DEV time/ bad ideas....glad there are 6 of you that can group and do it ...I would rather get a root canal:eek: if you want housing fine...go sit in it...if you want mass events fine have them

this is not doomsayers...give me 1 pcs of useful info you got out of your town meeting.....? " they are gonna make housing" " monks out in the spring" come on .........just build quests ...hell they can build them after the old modules ..that would be neat

Huh? Your the one who wanted forum contests....

lol, maybe you should know what your upset about before you amke a post like this insteadof changing it every time someone points out that what your complaining about has no merit.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:02 PM
Huh? Your the one who wanted forum contests....

lol, maybe you should know what your upset about before you amke a post like this insteadof changing it every time someone points out that what your complaining about has no merit.

and hey lets have some contests for halloween and maybe some pumkin pie.... THIS WAS PURE SARCASM..NEXT TIME I WILL SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU

no idea what you are talking about... people have put words in my mouth....no i have no interest in forum contest..why would i....:mad:

all I want is the game to capture our attention before all the hard core gamers on my server all leave.....and the lack of posts in the last week...lead me to believe that is the direction people are choosing....never did I say I was

Takllin
10-25-2007, 04:04 PM
Dude you contradict yourself so many times in this topic, its just for attention. You say you dont want puzzles and that all you want to do is have easy raids that need you to cleave things in half, and you think the forums are going to die. Then you say that you dont want the forums to die and that you never said that. Now you are saying you wanted puzzles and harder raids but not impossible stuff. This is getting to be a nuissance. I have no clue why you posted this, for drama attention, or because you cant get your thoughts straight on what you want.


and the lack of posts is because people are busy with work and cant play while at work.

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 04:04 PM
I wish the doomsayers on these forums would start actually using facts for their complaints rather than just spouting off nonsense that has no basis in reality.

But facts are hard. :(

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:07 PM
Dude you contradict yourself so many times in this topic, its just for attention. You say you dont want puzzles and that all you want to do is have easy raids that need you to cleave things in half, and you think the forums are going to die. Then you say that you dont want the forums to die and that you never said that. Now you are saying you wanted puzzles and harder raids but not impossible stuff. This is getting to be a nuissance. I have no clue why you posted this, for drama attention, or because you cant get your thoughts straight on what you want.


and the lack of posts is because people are busy with work and cant play while at work.

OK you are crazy...where do you see me say i want puzzles???????????????????????????????? you just make stuff up ...I mean can you freaking read and stop putting words in my mouth....squeelched

and people were not busy at work the last 2 years???????? believe what you must

Takllin
10-25-2007, 04:10 PM
im sorry i mistyped, but you do contradict yourself way too many times here for me to believe that this is a realistic thread.

and yes in 2 years alot of things can change in a persons like at work, we dont all stay the same hours and same job.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:12 PM
im sorry i mistyped, but you do contradict yourself way too many times here for me to believe that this is a realistic thread.

no people came in flaming before reading and are not realistic and are holding on to a tiny thread of hope.....I am hoping as well ...but I have seen at least 3 of the best quilds from therashk fold in the last 2 weeks.. guilds that had 20+ active players...now are dust

if my title is taken as i think the game will die ... sorry ... I want to find a way to prevent the mass exit of players....this is D&D how can it possible not be the flagship MMO?

Takllin
10-25-2007, 04:14 PM
people change, things come up, there may have been conflicts, unless you are them and new everything that was going on in all of ther lives you cant say for sure that it was the game that lead them to a downfall. I have seen many guilds in other games vanish in a matter of days, dont know why but it happens.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:16 PM
people change, things come up, there may have been conflicts, unless you are them and new everything that was going on in all of ther lives you cant say for sure that it was the game that lead them to a downfall. I have seen many guilds in other games vanish in a matter of days, dont know why but it happens.

if my title is taken as i think the game will die ... sorry ... I want to find a way to prevent the mass exit of players....this is D&D how can it possible not be the flagship MMO?

this game has no Marketing ...you are lucky if it is even on the store shelf ...this is D&D how can not be 10X more massive, should have 10X the developers.....

Takllin
10-25-2007, 04:22 PM
im not going over this anymore, there are alot of reasons for everything, there isnt a million ppl waiting in line for an interview for a programming job here. They have limitations, if you want the workers to have a very low salary fine, but no one will want to work there when they can go somewhere else and do the same thing for more money. the name of the game has some relevance but people want to work somewhere that they like, have friends and the money is good, not at some place with thousands of people who get little to nothing than before they mass hired people.

Pfamily
10-25-2007, 04:22 PM
i would rather play the raid like it was...kill something god like...not play asteroids...blind man walking...or frogger...I want to kill GODS I want gold... I want a challenge....they almost had it right...then they overhauled it and cant seem to realize it was a horrible mistake

You want, you want, you want...to run the show. Guess what...no one elected you Grand-Poobah.

This post was all bout getting attention, well you have it. Now, say something useful and be a part of the solution, rather than most of the problem.

IMHO

Takllin
10-25-2007, 04:23 PM
thats what I said, im not sure if this is for attention or he is serious its such a cleche of his ideas.

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:29 PM
I have no idea how you people turn this into attention...but get a life...seems you have me all figured out...whatever....glad i dont know any of you

juniorpfactors
10-25-2007, 04:32 PM
You want, you want, you want...to run the show. Guess what...no one elected you Grand-Poobah.

This post was all bout getting attention, well you have it. Now, say something useful and be a part of the solution, rather than most of the problem.

IMHO


I dont think i ever asked for "IMHO" goodbye

GuitarHero
10-25-2007, 04:39 PM
this threads really funny!!! Can i have one just like it for my birthday?

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 04:43 PM
this threads really funny!!! Can i have one just like it for my birthday?

Sure. When is it?

Pfamily
10-25-2007, 04:44 PM
I dont think i ever asked for "IMHO" goodbye

Umm...opinions are what you get here.

See ya.

GuitarHero
10-25-2007, 04:45 PM
November 20th. i'll be 25, and that'll give you guys a little under a month to plan me a good one, lol.

Pfamily
10-25-2007, 04:45 PM
November 20th. i'll be 25, and that'll give you guys a little under a month to plan me a good one, lol.

Start a post on that day...we'll do ya right!
:D

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 04:46 PM
November 20th. i'll be 25, and that'll give you guys a little under a month to plan me a good one, lol.

Ok, just remind me again a little closer to the date.

GuitarHero
10-25-2007, 04:51 PM
Do i have to be the bi-polar one? or you guys gonna handle that part? I can do bi-polar, just have to not take my meds. just need to know so i can plan ahead.

Pfamily
10-25-2007, 04:56 PM
Skip a couple of pills...make it challenging!
;)

And before the flaming begins...be sure to know that I wish you the best of birthdays!
:D

GuitarHero
10-25-2007, 04:58 PM
all righty then. its a date!!!

captain1z
10-25-2007, 05:01 PM
the death of the boards=the lack of direction and feeback is just sad...I see no reason to log into this site and I think the lack of relavent feedback from any Dev on content change or direction = understaffed and internal confusion. this is DUNGEONS & DRAGONS how are you letting it die I just cant understand=

time for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS ONLINE II complete restart in new area and back to lvl 1

?????????? /puzzeledface (calls up skecky and asks to borrow some popcorn)

Grizzt14
10-25-2007, 05:18 PM
The fact that this topic exists is a joke, but seriously, this guy doesn't make any sense whatsover. All i got to say is, doomsayers can be ignored unless they bring some FACTS to the table otherwise, i'll put them in the trash can with the rest of the doomsayers.

Dane_McArdy
10-25-2007, 05:38 PM
No - death of the boards = the daily quota of rudeness and geneal cr*p put out by a vocal minority of the populace that makes it not worth wading through.

Would this be an example of what you mean? See below:



No - death of the boards = the daily quota of rudeness and geneal cr*p put out by a vocal minority of the populace that makes it not worth wading through.

Raithe
10-25-2007, 05:40 PM
The topic was the joke? It wasn't all the attempted derailing, or that no one provided any FACTS to counter the OP's statement? I must have lost my sense of humor somewhere...

Speaking of the OP:

Concerning DDO2, I'm not particularly optimistic. I think many of the problems that were encountered in developing DDO1 were symptoms of adapting the pen and paper game to realtime video. I don't know if anyone, including Turbine, will be trying it again anytime soon.

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 05:54 PM
The topic was the joke? It wasn't all the attempted derailing, or that no one provided any FACTS to counter the OP's statement? I must have lost my sense of humor somewhere...

Yes...except for the facts about the size of the thread discussing ranged combat

or the fact about the increased communication from Eladrin and Codog

or the fact about the townhall meeting

Wow, you're right, no one presented any facts to counter the original statement, I'm so silly for actually reading the responses in the thread.

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 05:57 PM
All i got to say is, doomsayers can be ignored unless they bring some FACTS to the table

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1382287#post1382287) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405786#post1405786) barely (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400213#post1400213) say (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400068#post1400068) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398535#post1398535) any (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398069#post1398069) more (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392396#post1392396).

FACT: They (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404216#post1404216) obviously (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405107#post1405107) don't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403339#post1403339) care (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403024#post1403024) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402924#post1402924) fixing (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397066#post1397066) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397016#post1397016) bugs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389975#post1389975).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395847#post1395847) moderators (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1406324#post1406324) hardly (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405082#post1405082) do (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400224#post1400224) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399429#post1399429) these (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398243#post1398243) days (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397241#post1397241).

FACT: It's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1390335#post1390335) obvious (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404397#post1404397) no (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394374#post1394374) one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395197#post1395197) cares (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398990#post1398990) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400312#post1400312) improving (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402246#post1402246) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399958#post1399958) player's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402125#post1402125) experience (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1401603#post1401603) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389939#post1389939) asking (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403033#post1403033) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391474#post1391474) for (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392483#post1392483) feedback (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400580#post1400580) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391153#post1391153) telling (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403735#post1403735) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398836#post1398836) what's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403715#post1403715) going (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393419#post1393419) on (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392037#post1392037).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399966#post1399966) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404264#post1404264) aren't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394638#post1394638) people (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393185#post1393185) too (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392420#post1392420).

Obviously this game is going to pot.

:rolleyes:

Symar-FangofLloth
10-25-2007, 05:57 PM
BUT why is it the PUZZLES that maket the raid the challenge ...IT IS NOT BASED ON D&D...let the D&D be hard/ if not impossible......let the god kill me not the fact that i am running around like "Helen Keller"

Erm... there's no puzzles in tabletop D&D? You must've had really crummy DMs, then. My first DM ever had this awesome puzzle chamber thing that our rogue had to go through (because he wanted to get into the thieves' guild). It contained things such as a flame-throwing pillar that you could redirect with mirrors, used to burn down a couple doors, and a letter tile floor, which he had to make jump checks to spell out the right words to open other doors. And it was funny when he spelled real words that the DM didn't plan on, and got sent to optional rooms.


Also, if people want rats and water bombs, they can have them, but you think it's wasting dev time? Well, that sounds like 'Okay, the devs can make this stuff, that I hate, for other people because they like that stuff; but I really hate the fact that they are making things I don't like and so they shouldn't make them.' Which is it?

No, the only thing that kills the boards are extended periods of no relevant dev activity, degrading the forums into flame wars and doom-saying due to lack of intelligent (at least somewhat) discussion about the nature and future of the game.
DDO2? Sure... in 5 more years, when 4th edition is well settled and they can base a game off of it. That'll give this game time to grow and (hopefully) fill it's potential.

Anyway, I'm going to not look back into this thread, too much... or shall I say not enough sense. :rolleyes:

salmag
10-25-2007, 06:11 PM
Erm... there's no puzzles in tabletop D&D? You must've had really crummy DMs, then. My first DM ever had this awesome puzzle chamber thing that our rogue had to go through (because he wanted to get into the thieves' guild). It contained things such as a flame-throwing pillar that you could redirect with mirrors, used to burn down a couple doors, and a letter tile floor, which he had to make jump checks to spell out the right words to open other doors. And it was funny when he spelled real words that the DM didn't plan on, and got sent to optional rooms.


Also, if people want rats and water bombs, they can have them, but you think it's wasting dev time? Well, that sounds like 'Okay, the devs can make this stuff, that I hate, for other people because they like that stuff; but I really hate the fact that they are making things I don't like and so they shouldn't make them.' Which is it?

No, the only thing that kills the boards are extended periods of no relevant dev activity, degrading the forums into flame wars and doom-saying due to lack of intelligent (at least somewhat) discussion about the nature and future of the game.
DDO2? Sure... in 5 more years, when 4th edition is well settled and they can base a game off of it. That'll give this game time to grow and (hopefully) fill it's potential.

Anyway, I'm going to not look back into this thread, too much... or shall I say not enough sense. :rolleyes:

Maybe the OP did not play D & D enough to realize that The game is comprised of puzzles, mazes, traps, etc. and not just killing things. I believe that is were the Devs are failing, not in dungeon difficulty or design.

I once had a DM that designed a trick dungeon. We had to solve puzzle after puzzle after puzzle without encountering anything. Sometimes a thief was useful, sometimes not. Skills came into effect, NOT THAC0, or BAB. Knowledge and/or mountaineering skills, climbing walls using ropes and hooks, ingenuity not having to kill anything. Good dungeon sense. I would like to see a dungeon like that, and also give it random choice.

Raithe
10-25-2007, 06:16 PM
Yes...except for the facts about the size of the thread discussing ranged combat

or the fact about the increased communication from Eladrin and Codog

or the fact about the townhall meeting

Wow, you're right, no one presented any facts to counter the original statement, I'm so silly for actually reading the responses in the thread.


FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1382287#post1382287) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405786#post1405786) barely (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400213#post1400213) say (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400068#post1400068) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398535#post1398535) any (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398069#post1398069) more (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392396#post1392396).

FACT: They (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404216#post1404216) obviously (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405107#post1405107) don't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403339#post1403339) care (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403024#post1403024) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402924#post1402924) fixing (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397066#post1397066) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397016#post1397016) bugs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389975#post1389975).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395847#post1395847) moderators (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1406324#post1406324) hardly (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405082#post1405082) do (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400224#post1400224) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399429#post1399429) these (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398243#post1398243) days (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397241#post1397241).

FACT: It's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1390335#post1390335) obvious (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404397#post1404397) no (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394374#post1394374) one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395197#post1395197) cares (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398990#post1398990) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400312#post1400312) improving (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402246#post1402246) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399958#post1399958) player's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402125#post1402125) experience (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1401603#post1401603) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389939#post1389939) asking (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403033#post1403033) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391474#post1391474) for (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392483#post1392483) feedback (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400580#post1400580) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391153#post1391153) telling (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403735#post1403735) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398836#post1398836) what's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403715#post1403715) going (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393419#post1393419) on (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392037#post1392037).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399966#post1399966) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404264#post1404264) aren't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394638#post1394638) people (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393185#post1393185) too (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392420#post1392420).

Obviously this game is going to pot.

:rolleyes:

Very nice looking facts. Top notch. Liked 'em even better the second time around.

What do they prove? The developers like to write more now? I don't see anyone talking about the direction and future of content in DDO, which is the statement made by the OP.

If I happened to miss where they did, I'll be happy to admit being wrong for the chance to read it.

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 06:31 PM
Very nice looking facts. Top notch. Liked 'em even better the second time around.

What do they prove? The developers like to write more now? I don't see anyone talking about the direction and future of content in DDO, which is the statement made by the OP.

If I happened to miss where they did, I'll be happy to admit being wrong for the chance to read it.

You mean like the post by Eladrin where he asked for player's feelings about the death penalty?

Or how about codog requesting information on what aspects of ranged combat the players feel need to be fixed?

Or maybe even the post where Eladrin commented that he was taking the players concerns back to review the changes to the abbot raid and the loot there?

Man, it sucks that they never listen or try to change things to make the game better for us!

Raithe
10-25-2007, 07:01 PM
You mean like the post by Eladrin where he asked for player's feelings about the death penalty?

Or how about codog requesting information on what aspects of ranged combat the players feel need to be fixed?

Or maybe even the post where Eladrin commented that he was taking the players concerns back to review the changes to the abbot raid and the loot there?

Man, it sucks that they never listen or try to change things to make the game better for us!

I see lots of talking about gameplay issues and developers responses to criticisms of gameplay.

I don't see anyone talking about what content is going to be like in the future. Are they going to make more raids? Are they going to cater to solo players more? Are they going to stick with static dungeons, or are they going to make dungeons more dynamic each instance? Are they going to come up with new types of content similar to the adventure areas they created before?

These types of questions don't get answered very well, if at all.

JelloMold
10-25-2007, 07:01 PM
Before you whine about people leaving the game you might consider that quite a few people have left or are considering leaving because of the whining.

Play the game as it is. If you can't enjoy it, find a way to enjoy it or move on. Play the game as long as it is here. If it goes away, find another game; or even better find something productive to do with your time. Constant whining, especially by stating the same old complaints gets us nowhere.

Raithe
10-25-2007, 07:11 PM
Before you whine about people leaving the game you might consider that quite a few people have left or are considering leaving because of the whining.

Play the game as it is. If you can't enjoy it, find a way to enjoy it or move on. Play the game as long as it is here. If it goes away, find another game; or even better find something productive to do with your time. Constant whining, especially by stating the same old complaints gets us nowhere.

... and the only thing worse is whining about whining.

May I suggest criticism of the ideas presented in the post, rather than the act of posting itself?

Or perhaps ignoring the thread completely?

JelloMold
10-25-2007, 07:47 PM
... and the only thing worse is whining about whining.

May I suggest criticism of the ideas presented in the post, rather than the act of posting itself?

Or perhaps ignoring the thread completely?

Ok. Here's a summation of the "ideas" presented in the post and all of the ways that they were already countered.

There hasn't been any response to our questions - several people pointed out (including links) showing the responses.

Who cares about rapid reload (AKA if I don't care about it, then it isn't an issue) - there are loads of posts about ranged issues. Several people pointed this out as well

The board (that I'm using for this riveting discussion) is useless. - I think the irony speaks for itself.

Waaaa there are puzzles, I don't like puzzles - puzzles are there for a challenge and are PnP and are just fine in the game

I'm (the OP) not interested in it so it is a bad thing (forum contests/rapid reload) - OP's post says that all these important things are gone from the boards. There are plenty of posts that are important to other people. Maybe the boards are dying for the OP, but not for others.

It is D&D, therefore it should have more marketing and development than other MMOs. - sure, we'd all like that, but the $$$$ couldn't care less. If the money isn't there, it isn't there. D&D has been around for a while, but so has KMart. Longevity has nothing to do with it. This topic has been covered ad nauseum and no new points were raised.

(This last one was taken out of order, but saved last for emphasis)
We need to build the game/people are leaving - This is the point of my post. People whining and being beligerent make people want to leave just as much as all of the other "issues".

So the reason for my post Raithe was to point out that when someone makes yet another whine post that says nothing new or constructive, and then someone comes along to complain that people aren't taking him seriously (in this case you), it does just as much to make people want to leave as anything else. Sure my whine was a whine with nothing constructive or a lot of details, will you defend me next? or ignore me completely?

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 08:32 PM
I don't see anyone talking about what content is going to be like in the future.

You're either purposefully ignoring the places where they've done so, or just being contrary.

The "state of the game" address gave some indications of long term plans for the game.

More recent updates on that were in a recent episode of the Podcast.

They've already "released" a fair amount of information on where they're going for mod 6 and the next few updates after that.

What do you want? A game plan that lays out the next three years?

Raithe
10-25-2007, 09:01 PM
The "state of the game" address gave some indications of long term plans for the game.

Are you referring to last year? I think when we talk about "no discussion of the future of content," we're talking about fairly recent history. A lot has obviously changed since last year.



More recent updates on that were in a recent episode of the Podcast.


I downloaded and listened to the DDOCast episode with the executive producer interview. All I heard was a lot of hem hawing.



They've already "released" a fair amount of information on where they're going for mod 6 and the next few updates after that.


That information would be that they intend to go to the Planes? That answers how many example questions I had in my previous post?



What do you want? A game plan that lays out the next three years?

I would settle for a game plan. Period. Even if its a statement like "we will not be changing the content development patterns of DDO to any significant degree." That would be more than enough information to fill my purposes. Of course it wouldn't be phrased like that...

Which brings up my answer to the "your ruining the forums for people" argument:

I am looking out for my own interests. I'm sure several other "whiners" on the forums are too. I am not out to solve Turbine's playerbase problems for them so that they can continue to make money off from a game system that I find terribly inadequate. When I or others attempt to make any statements about the game system, however, we immediately get shot down by other forum goers with statements like "If they did that we (supposedly the majority) would quit instantly and Turbine would lose out on our benevolent adoration."

Which is how proving that there is a problem with the game becomes more imperative than the how.

jjflanigan
10-25-2007, 09:13 PM
I am looking out for my own interests. I'm sure several other "whiners" on the forums are too. I am not out to solve Turbine's playerbase problems for them so that they can continue to make money off from a game system that I find terribly inadequate. When I or others attempt to make any statements about the game system, however, we immediately get shot down by other forum goers with statements like "If they did that we (supposedly the majority) would quit instantly and Turbine would lose out on our benevolent adoration."

Which is how proving that there is a problem with the game becomes more imperative than the how.

I find that to be patently untrue. The true "fans" do not threaten to quit if something gets changed. In fact, we tend to try to foster positive discussion when people bring up new ideas.

The true issue is that the *real* majority on the forums seem to just want to whine and complain without offering any ideas for improvement. Why do you find the game system to be terribly inadequate? The game *system* is quite enjoyable. An exciting interactive combat system, a story driven quest system, excellent outdoor adventure areas...I find the majority of the system to be superb.

Are there areas where it is lacking, of course, but just saying "I don't like it" doesn't work to get things changed. Explain why and offer suggestions that would improve your gameplay. Do it in a positive, non-insulting manner and you'll foster a discussion that will hopefully garner the ears (eyes?) of the developers.

They've stated time and again that Quarion (and probably Tolero now) weekly take lists of ideas, issues and comments from the forums to put before the development team. Just because they don't always have the time to respond directly to you doesn't mean your voice doesn't matter and that you aren't being heard.

Ghoste
10-25-2007, 09:16 PM
The op reminds me of the big stink back in August when Quarion went along for a fun little trip with the LOTRO car.

What stands out most clearly in my mind was one thread where a guy was absolutely insisting that the only way to look at it was that Quarion was being pulled from full time DDO duty to work part time on LOTRO because Turbine was abandoning DDO. He also insisted it was so clear and impossible to interpret otherwise that Merlask was being hired to replace Quarion, but that Merlask would just be working from home on a very part time basis.

Well, Quarion's still here, Merlask was added to the staff, and now we hear they are increasing the staff for DDO.

What I don't get is, why did that guy stop telling us Turbine is downsizing the DDO team? The facts (or actually the lack thereof at the time) didn't stop him then, so what's stopping him now?

Cheg
10-25-2007, 09:24 PM
You need to read these forums more often Raithe, apparently your missing a lot of dev responses.

They've told us some spells that are being released in mod 6. They've told us some of the feats. They've told us that guild housing will be around after it's been tested on Lotro. They've told us the update on Monks, the update on the level cap.

Do you want every smidgeon of additions listed months in advance?

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 09:48 PM
That answers how many example questions I had in my previous post?

So basically you want answers to your questions or nothing counts. Unless it's specifically the information you want (which you can carefully tailor to ensure it's things that they haven't answered, or perhaps even things they can't answer) then there's no plan and it's all going to hell in a handbasket.

Forgive me for not seeing your side of things.

Weedo
10-25-2007, 10:06 PM
i agree with the op here, the ddo boards are definitely less than what they used to be. thats why they added this new "most recent post" thing on the front of the forum page. cause they know that your server boards suck and are becoming dull beyond belief.

Raithe
10-25-2007, 10:14 PM
So basically you want answers to your questions or nothing counts. Unless it's specifically the information you want (which you can carefully tailor to ensure it's things that they haven't answered, or perhaps even things they can't answer) then there's no plan and it's all going to hell in a handbasket.

Forgive me for not seeing your side of things.

The point I was trying to make was that "we are going to the Planes" doesn't really answer any of the important questions about content. Of course I'm biased as to what is important and what is not - it's one of those hazards of having an opinion and writing it out for others to see.

The big question still sitting in front of me is that "do they have a plan or not?" I honestly can't tell. They seem to be coming to the forums a lot to "poll" players on what they want from DDO. That seems to suggest to me that they aren't sure what to do with DDO right now, and are guaging how disruptive any trial maneuvers are going to be. They probably don't have a lot of slack with playerbase numbers to work with.

But then I could just be imagining that, and wasting my time in these discussions...

...except that it's all in the name of MMO science.

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 10:20 PM
The big question still sitting in front of me is that "do they have a plan or not?" I honestly can't tell.

Seriously?

Ok, then maybe I can clear it up. You pretty much can't run a business of any sort without a plan.

What do you think they do all day, just sit around each coding up some stuff that they feel like working on today? And then maybe after a while there's enough stuff to "release" a "mod"? The people who are coming to the boards and polling players are mainly two people who were hired specifically to do that and then bring the feedback back to everyone else. Would you rather they didn't include our feedback in their planning?

I guarantee you they spend more time than we do planning what should happen next.

Borror0
10-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Ok, I cannot stand seeing people bashing on a friend like this anymore.

I'll not lie and I'll admit that he didn't express himself very well. You'd meet him in-game and you'd never say what you guys said about him, he's a good player and a really nice person. He's one of the many reasons I've joined Maelstorm.

So here I go.

In the few last weeks, the biggest guilds from Tharashk just melted down. All that is left is a handful of players, the least active one. Amen, the biggest one of them all was reduced to 3-6 players on a saturday night. This is bad, it wasn't about internal problem, no one left the guild because of a fight. Nothing of that kind, peopel left the game. People went inactive.

That's what Jr is saying: people are leaving the game due to bad design.

The Abbott's raid was a mess. I've seen a bunch of rading guild giving up on him because it eas a mess. Not too hard, not too expensive, a mess. When you cannot complete the puzzles and you need to use Mnemonic Enhancers, something is wrong with your raid.

Right now, the current Abbott isn't better. The puzzles need to be toned down a bit because very few people can complete them... out of luck. Not being able to complete a raid because you cannot solve the puzzle like the Reaver was is something. Not being able to complete the raid because one puzzle needs luck, insane cooperation and high twitch skills and because the two other puzzle are, while not impossible, really hard as the odds of completing them are under 50%. There is a certain ammount of twitch skills that I love in this game. However, this is above the ammount I can accept.

This is well above what most players can accept too.

If that raid would only be about discovering the Abbott's weakness, solving a puzzle. It might not be that. But right now, it's pretty near impossible.

The Wall of Fire nerf in DToV is also not helping. Most of the player base is sick and tired of quick and easy fixes. Of shortcuts that makes the game boring. Shadow are hard to kill right. Like MT said, they are not an hard ecounter. They are simply long and annoying to kill. Casters were using WoF because they are nearly untargetable. You target them, press the right key... and they're an unavailable target... Again, there is a minimum of twitch skills in this game that I love. The dynamic combat is awesome. that's why we all love it all so much. But the developers are taking bad descisions, that's what Jr wanted to say.

Then he said the forums are dead. You guys argued that they were not. I can tell you that they are. Usually, I log on at noon and check a few thread that interests me. I pick the most interesting ones... right now, I'd have time for them all. The most affected are the class forums. There has been one post in the fighter forums since Monday... that's not normal. Yeah, loads of post elsewhere and all that stuff.... but truth is, if fighter forums stay dead all that long, there is a problem somewhere.

You guys then argued that the devs were very active... that's false. While I enjoyed that "linked sentence" of MT, it's not enough. Right now, the player base is dead angry. If you cannot see this... you're blind. It is obvious on the forums and in-game. DoctorWhofan wrote a thread called "I would Like to thank Turbine for Uniting us... In hate". That is very true, people are dead mad about many change and decision that Turbine took. We have waited four months for any end-game content. We get 6 level 14 or more quests. That's not a lot, nor is it enough. Yes, there are also 5 other quests, but these don't grant access to the raid, have inferior loot and are a lesser challenge. Then, add-in bugs, a controversial raid loot system and a bad raid....

You've got there a very dangerous cocktail.

Yes, Codog's work is incredible. Such dedication to satisafying the player base is admirable. Sadly, to quote Jr, "ya i really care that they are fixing rapid reload". Yes, that's great, long waited change. Awesome job Codog... you should be an example to your co-workers. I cannot stress this enough. Right now, the population is angry and we get a "Don't die." I appreciate that Eladrin is leaking information... but he should make a Codog out of himself and explain, explain... a lot. If it's not him, someone has to do it. We need to be calmed down, to be expalined their choices, their views. Why soemthing was made like this, what they think of the difficulty of the raid.

Not a "Don't die."

Great, we know why you made it like this... but the rest? Explain... please?

Again, Jr is a good player. He cares a lot about the game, he's just ****ed off to see so many people leave. To assist to the decline of a game he loves so much. A game the he believes could use some advertising (don't we all?), a game that suffers from a few really, really bad decisions... and no explanations.

You guys have no clue of how often I've heard "I wonder if Turbine wants to empty the game." That's the impression lots of people have... I think it's normal to ask for more Dev reply. Leaking about module 6 is good, make us wait... but what about making us stay?


EDIT: I'll add this. Not only we get a not much communication about this, but threads that offer contrsuctive critisism gets closed (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=125355).

Raithe
10-25-2007, 11:03 PM
Ok, then maybe I can clear it up. You pretty much can't run a business of any sort without a plan.


Here is one of those statements by other forum goers I talked about a few posts back. Let me fix it for you:



Ok, then maybe I can clear it up. You pretty much can't run a successful business of any sort without a plan.


The red part is the one that many of us don't agree on.



What do you think they do all day, just sit around each coding up some stuff that they feel like working on today? And then maybe after a while there's enough stuff to "release" a "mod"?


There are engineers (Codog is one...), there are designers (I think Eladrin is one...), there are artists, and then there are the people who decide what direction DDO is going to take (probably everyone who posts on the forums is included here). The first three groups are probably working on whatever the last group can make up right now (or possibly fixing long standing issues with range weapons...).



The people who are coming to the boards and polling players are mainly two people who were hired specifically to do that and then bring the feedback back to everyone else. Would you rather they didn't include our feedback in their planning?


The feedback I have seen? Yes.

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 11:07 PM
Not a "Don't die."

Seriously, that's not all he said.

As for the rest, this does seem to be a particularly turbulent time, but I think if we can work it out, we'll all come out better in the end. Contrary to popular belief (and it's that belief that often gets me so upset), the Devs are not out to get anyone, they don't take things personally, they don't want to fight with us, they aren't trying to make us unhappy... and all the other negative motivations that I see so commonly ascribed to them on these boards.

I have to believe they're trying to make a good game. I seriously hope most of the rest of you believe that too, or why the heck are you even here in the first place.

The more constructive feedback, be it positive or negative, we can give to them the better the game is going to be. (I've already made my position on the whole merging and closing threads thing and I definitely agree that that is a huge faux pas on the part of the Moderators.) But, there's a lot of negativity on the boards these days that doesn't serve anyone well. Try to set those feelings aside a bit as you express yourself (the general "you" Borror0, not you in particular) and express them in a way that allows your points to be heard rather than just your tone.

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 11:09 PM
Here is one of those statements by other forum goers I talked about a few posts back. Let me fix it for you:

The red part is the one that many of us don't agree on.

No. You honestly can't even run a failing business for any decent length of time without some sort of a plan. If you don't plan, you can't even get from day to day.

Obviously, DDO has had planning or we wouldn't be here a year and a half later. Why do you think that would suddenly change?

Borror0
10-25-2007, 11:13 PM
I seriously hope most of the rest of you believe that too, or why the heck are you even here in the first place.

I do believe that they are trying to make a good game, however, making a good game isn't enough right now. Like you said, these are turbulent times. I believe that the devs should try to show the player base they do care and try to do something. What Eladrin's doing is not enough.

Honestly, I don't mind that much, I'll live on. Still have lots of the game to explore, lots of alts to cap and gear out. But, I hate to see friends go. I hate to see such discussions on the boards.

We should be suggesting for mod 6... not fixing mod 5...

MysticTheurge
10-25-2007, 11:18 PM
I believe that the devs should try to show the player base they do care and try to do something. What Eladrin's doing is not enough.

Given that it's been 3 or 4 days since this whole thing exploded, what else do you expect him (or them) to do?

Any changes that are going to be made have to be discussed at least to some degree. Announcing anything prematurely could be just as disastrous as not announcing anything at all.

To me it seems like Eladrin in particular is being as forthcoming with us as he can about the changes he'd like to make to the raid and openly discuss some of the options that are out there with us.

But what would you like to see him (or anyone else) be doing instead or in addition to what he already is?

Borror0
10-25-2007, 11:25 PM
But what would you like to see him (or anyone else) be doing instead or in addition to what he already is?

I'd like to tell me if he beated that raid himself.

How he found it. What the other Devs think of it.
Why there is such an emphasis on the twitch skills.
If the death penalty is there only to force us doing the puzzle or to make the raid harder as a whole.
If it's only for the puzzle, anyway he could remove it for death by the Abbott. You roll a one... -10 to all stats...

I'm sure there is a lot of posts he could comment on... I'm sure it mgith help him if we could discuss it somewhere. I'd like that they would allow us to talk about the Abbott on these forums. The only place we are allowed to is not used that way. It's all about the Death penalty.

I'd try to start a thread... it'd get closed... :(

jjflanigan
10-26-2007, 06:32 AM
I'd like to tell me if he beated that raid himself.

How he found it. What the other Devs think of it.
Why there is such an emphasis on the twitch skills.
If the death penalty is there only to force us doing the puzzle or to make the raid harder as a whole.
If it's only for the puzzle, anyway he could remove it for death by the Abbott. You roll a one... -10 to all stats...

I'm sure there is a lot of posts he could comment on... I'm sure it mgith help him if we could discuss it somewhere. I'd like that they would allow us to talk about the Abbott on these forums. The only place we are allowed to is not used that way. It's all about the Death penalty.

I'd try to start a thread... it'd get closed... :(

The twitch skills was something new they added to the raid during its design phase. It's sad that many people seem to be upset by it, but they can't just got and change that now without a total redesign of that entire raid

The fact that the abbot discussion thread is all about the death penalty is the fault of the players, not the developers. If the players in that thread would stop making every post be about the death penalty...well, then the thread would be about the abbot raid again.

These types of discussions have been on the boards since they before the game launched. Even during beta and pre-beta people would claiming that DDO was going to die and would never last. No one is ever going to be happy with every change that is made, but there are always other things to do in the game. Also, just a response to your comment about the largest guilds on Thelanis -- last weekend my guild had 15 - 20 people on when I popped online Saturday night on Thelanis.

If any MMO designed everything based upon the vocal majority on the forums, the game would be dead within a couple months, that's why no MMO has ever done that.

If you want to know why they don't give strong details about future plans all the time...you only have to look at the history on these forums. If they say they are going to add something and then it changes...they get crucified. If they say they are going to add something that a few people don't like, those few people seem to make it their life's work to continually post how adding this new feature will "be the death of DDO!!!"

It's better for them to wait til things are more solid and post them up in the WDA. The WDA, as it progresses, gives you an idea of the path of the game for the next couple months. You know we are getting a level increase. You know some of the new spells being added. You know they are planning to send us to the planes. That's a lot of information already being provided, I'm sorry if it's not enough for you, but it's more than you get in a lot of other places.

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 06:46 AM
The fact that the abbot discussion thread is all about the death penalty is the fault of the players, not the developers. If the players in that thread would stop making every post be about the death penalty...well, then the thread would be about the abbot raid again.

The moderators actually bear the brunt of the responsibility there, if you ask me.

jjflanigan
10-26-2007, 06:49 AM
The moderators actually bear the brunt of the responsibility there, if you ask me.

Well, yes, the merging of the threads began the issue. However, they could start another thread JUST talking about the death penalty instead of using the "Abbot raid discussion" thread to keep it going.

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 06:51 AM
Well, yes, the merging of the threads began the issue. However, they could start another thread JUST talking about the death penalty instead of using the "Abbot raid discussion" thread to keep it going.

People did. But a large portion of the population is going to respond to a question about the death penalty in the thread where a developer post asking it appears.

There's nothing anyone but the moderators can do about that.

Borror0
10-26-2007, 06:54 AM
The twitch skills was something new they added to the raid during its design phase. It's sad that many people seem to be upset by it, but they can't just got and change that now without a total redesign of that entire raid.

jj, ever entered that raid?

That raid is mean! Of course the skills are what it's based around, but if they intend it to be run, they've got to change it, period. The way it currently is makes no one happy, no one. I weight my words, no one, doubtlessly. If anyone liks it, I'd be really surprised. It's not that it's hard, it's that it's luck. If you want it to be successful, you have to have 12 players that can make the puzzles. That means they must have the skills to do them. Then, the puzzle require luck, they are so hard that you must be lucky.

Well, some are lucky... but must be done perfectly, there is no room for mistake at all. You miss one Ateroid? Out!! Then, if not all of your 12 players know the puzzle, you have to get lucky enough to get them teleported to the puzzle and the clueless ones to stay on the base.

That means that if someone don't know the raid, he is a serious threat to the success of the raid. That's bad. You don't know it? We'll not want you it. That's how most people are gonig to think. Obviously, it won't be like this within a guild, but this raid won't be PuGed at all, never! This is why you see so much ranting. The ammount of luck and skill needed for this one is just riddiculous.

You say it's sad people are upset by it? I said it bad that they are ****ed off by it.
It's not that they didn't try... it's that htye've given up.


The fact that the abbot discussion thread is all about the death penalty is the fault of the players, not the developers. If the players in that thread would stop making every post be about the death penalty...well, then the thread would be about the abbot raid again.

Yeah, but say I want to bring it to something else? I can't.

I can't make any other thread. That's how it works in a forum... usually. You want to discuss about it? No other thread talking about what you know? Make one... we can't.

That's a bad decision.


These types of discussions have been on the boards since they before the game launched. Even during beta and pre-beta people would claiming that DDO was going to die and would never last. No one is ever going to be happy with every change that is made, but there are always other things to do in the game. Also, just a response to your comment about the largest guilds on Thelanis -- last weekend my guild had 15 - 20 people on when I popped online Saturday night on Thelanis.

I'm not saying doom. I'm saying it's bad.

Fact is: we are bleeding player. Will it be enough to kill DDO, no. Is it bad, yes. Should it be adressed? Yes.

Glad your guild's going strong, but that's not the case of every guild. Mine is still going strong also, not lost one player... yet.


If any MMO designed everything based upon the vocal majority on the forums, the game would be dead within a couple months, that's why no MMO has ever done that.

I think they did this time and it was their mistake actually... remember those "it's too easy posts"?:rolleyes:


If you want to know why they don't give strong details about future plans all the time...you only have to look at the history on these forums. If they say they are going to add something and then it changes...they get crucified. If they say they are going to add something that a few people don't like, those few people seem to make it their life's work to continually post how adding this new feature will "be the death of DDO!!!"

Yeah, well I don't think I mentioned that and that'll make me go off-topic anyway.


It's better for them to wait til things are more solid and post them up in the WDA. The WDA, as it progresses, gives you an idea of the path of the game for the next couple months. You know we are getting a level increase. You know some of the new spells being added. You know they are planning to send us to the planes. That's a lot of information already being provided, I'm sorry if it's not enough for you, but it's more than you get in a lot of other places.

Again, I've never asked for more information of that kind... what I want is to explain the reasoning behind their change. Why are we doing this.. or that. When people come and complain, we'd get much less complaining if Devs said: Well, what we wanted to accomplish with that raid was this... the new raid loot system is like this becasue of X, Y and mostly Z.

I don't think I'm asking for the moon.

Just explanation, it'd calm us down.

jjflanigan
10-26-2007, 08:51 AM
A lot of the comments in my post don't refer to things you've said, but I was using the type of posts many other people use as a reason for why they don't give a lot of details and information.

Yes, I've been in the raid. No, I do not like how it is designed since lag, computer performance and targetting bugs have more impact on any of the "puzzles" than character or player skills. However, Eladrin said they are monitoring the situation with the puzzles and will change them if it is obvious, to them, that it's needed. I think that fairly soon they will see how bad it currently is for all of us in that raid and they will adjust the timers and such on the puzzles to allow them to be completed (make the goggle puzzle tiles last a lot longer and then drop the duration of the tiles on Hard and Elite...that way it ramps up the "challenge" on those puzzles at the higher difficulties).

I think that if someone went through and pulled out Eladrins comments into a new thread just about changing the death penalty without referring to the -10 you get in the Abbot raid that the new thread would be allowed to stay. The old one got merged because everyone was ranting about the death penalty in the abbot raid and not just talking about the idea of changing the overall death penalty. Yes, it was silly to merge all those threads, but that was a moderator decision, not a developer one, we can't really penalize them for a mistake made with the forums.

DDO has been "bleeding players" for a long time according to the forums. Yet I constantly see new people in game and almost never have an issue finding a group.

The changes to the raid were explained -- they wanted it to be harder and for people not to use dying as a valid "tactic" in the raid.

The changes to the raid loot was because it was the best option they could come up with after they saw that the old way rewarded people for short-manning raids or using "tricks" so that only one or two people were in at the completion to loot the chest. They have said all along that they wanted raids to be huge endeavors with full raid parties, they made this change to try to accomplish that. Do I think they need to tweak the loot generation to prevent 12 man raid parties from getting 0 raid items -- I very much do think that.

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 08:56 AM
FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1382287#post1382287) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405786#post1405786) barely (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400213#post1400213) say (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400068#post1400068) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398535#post1398535) any (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398069#post1398069) more (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392396#post1392396).

FACT: They (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404216#post1404216) obviously (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405107#post1405107) don't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403339#post1403339) care (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403024#post1403024) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402924#post1402924) fixing (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397066#post1397066) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397016#post1397016) bugs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389975#post1389975).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395847#post1395847) moderators (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1406324#post1406324) hardly (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1405082#post1405082) do (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400224#post1400224) anything (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399429#post1399429) these (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398243#post1398243) days (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1397241#post1397241).

FACT: It's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1390335#post1390335) obvious (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404397#post1404397) no (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394374#post1394374) one (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1395197#post1395197) cares (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398990#post1398990) about (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400312#post1400312) improving (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402246#post1402246) the (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399958#post1399958) player's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1402125#post1402125) experience (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1401603#post1401603) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1389939#post1389939) asking (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403033#post1403033) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391474#post1391474) for (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392483#post1392483) feedback (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1400580#post1400580) or (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1391153#post1391153) telling (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403735#post1403735) us (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1398836#post1398836) what's (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1403715#post1403715) going (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393419#post1393419) on (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392037#post1392037).

FACT: The (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1399966#post1399966) devs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1404264#post1404264) aren't (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1394638#post1394638) people (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1393185#post1393185) too (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=1392420#post1392420).

Obviously this game is going to pot.

:rolleyes:

Well done!

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 09:06 AM
Ok, I'm laying it down on the line for everyone.

The forums are what you make it. If the forums are filled with nastiness, then you have a nasty forum. It is NOT neccessarily a reflection of the game. It's a reflection of the people playing the game.

There are rampent contradicitions on what players want, even amongst some of the best posters, who make the forums a better place. The only difference is they can disagree without having to call anyone names, or take it down to the petty level of "I know you are, but what am I".

The fact is, many people don't give the dev's any reason to feel invested in them. The dev's are, but like Codog has said, and so have other dev's, they don't like to respond to rants and flame threads, because they feel it only encourages people to continue to behave like that.

But you know what, even the good posters have a part in the forums being the way they are, and I'm the biggest offender at times, or was in the past.

And that's giving these people the time of day with a response. I'm working at NOT giving these people something to bite on. Because often that's all they want, is a reaction. And to often in the past, I've given them just what they want, and all it did was to make a rift between people.

Sure, my intentions were good, to get people to see how rudely they were acting. But I know people aren't going to change on the intrawebs. If anything it's just going to make it worse, because they know they are safe and secure, and are not emotionally invested in what I think about them.

It's a two sided coin, the haters, and the people that feed their hate. I say, let them starve!

We want a better forum? We need to start with ourselves first and for most.

Pick a type of thread and learn to ignore them, or least resist posting in them. I read goodbye threads, and if they are rants about the game sucking, I stop reading them, and don't really posts. If they are honest good byes, I wish the person good luck and welcome them back when they do come back.

Look at yourself, ask if you are really helping or hurting, and then work from there.

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 09:20 AM
"do they have a plan or not?"

They do, they just don't feel the urge to tell "you" about it, because every time they let us know their plans there's something to complain about.

Mod 6 is level cap increase time, there's a lot of work being done that isn't being posted currently. I'm amazed that El and CODOG have been as accessible as they have been. Quarion looks to have been a busy bee as well.

DaveyCrockett
10-26-2007, 09:24 AM
Well stated Dane.

Everyone gets frustrated frome time to time, and the common action is to bring that frustration to the forums to get it off your chest. This usually results in a myriad of responses ranging from the apathetic to the sarcastic to the just plain rude.

As Dane said, ignore the ones that you feel like all you have to reply with is 'oh god not another one of these', or those types of posts. What purpose does that serve other than making you feel witty for a few minutes?

If we treat each other better on these forums, that's a good start to rebuilding morale. If we establish a harmonious existance of BOTH pros and cons, agreements and disagreements then I would have to believe that the devs would be more willing to chime in with their 2 cents.

Intelligence and maturity are your friends. See if they will browse the forums with you. And I'm not judging anyone, as I've made more than my fair share of mistakes on these forums. Attacking good people out of frustration. At least I can see my mistakes, acknowledge them, and correct them.

Blaming the devs for people leaving is not very fair, imo. Blame the people. If the only thing that was going to keep them here was the Black Abbot Raid loot, then how much longer would they have been around anyway? The content will come, the bugs will be fixed, and we'll reach a point with the new raid that is acceptable by BOTH the developers and the players. The need for instant gratification is the largest problem with this game, and that need generally only esists in the players. Take away that need, and what you have left is a great game with great promise.

Give peace a chance.

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 09:27 AM
Well stated Dane.

I think I just almost fainted. :D

Dane and Davey (the DnD tandem, LOL) are absolutely right.

And to the OP, I'm not quite sure what more you expect from Turbine. The developers come here and post in their FREE time, would you be doing work during your break time at the office?

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 09:32 AM
would you be doing work during your break time at the office?

Obviously, most of us aren't even doing while we're not on our breaks. ;)

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 09:39 AM
Obviously, most of us aren't even doing while we're not on our breaks. ;)

He he he, I'm good at multitasking, I'm working and slacking at the same time!

jjflanigan
10-26-2007, 09:40 AM
Obviously, most of us aren't even doing while we're not on our breaks. ;)

Bah, it's been my job to post on the forums ever since Turbine started paying me!

For serious, though. I don't think there are any "forum regulars" that I haven't disagreed with at one point or another (either because the counter my point or vice versa). However, I try to read every idea / criticism with an open mind and think "If I were a developer for Turbine, how would my thought process work for this?" I don't do this because I feel I am better suited to it than anyone else, but simply because I think that challenging an idea with polite and founded questions will always help in the long run. It will either show flaws that the OP didn't think of or help to solidify the questions / ideas as being well-founded and solid.

I try not to post in simple flame threads, but I will post into threads that seem to have some thought behind them. As long as people remain polite and at least act like they value other people's opinions and ideas, I think the forums will grow and, as a side effect, new players won't feel as jaded from the get go. Disliking some of the changes (even all of the changes) is fine as long as you can present the reasons for that and always, always, remember that the developers are people with feelings and are trying to do their best.

A big thing that helps temper anger is to realize...if DDO fails, we lose a game that we are playing, the developers lose their jobs.

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 09:46 AM
I see lots of talking about gameplay issues and developers responses to criticisms of gameplay.

I don't see anyone talking about what content is going to be like in the future. Are they going to make more raids? Are they going to cater to solo players more? Are they going to stick with static dungeons, or are they going to make dungeons more dynamic each instance? Are they going to come up with new types of content similar to the adventure areas they created before?

These types of questions don't get answered very well, if at all.

Jackpot!!!

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 09:53 AM
More of the same, just different. :cool:

Happy?

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 10:01 AM
I think I just almost fainted. :D

Dane and Davey (the DnD tandem, LOL) are absolutely right.

And to the OP, I'm not quite sure what more you expect from Turbine. The developers come here and post in their FREE time, would you be doing work during your break time at the office?


buddy thats called customer service...In sales terms its called "commission"
in retail terms its called "the customer is always right" its what we all expect of our employees...its what top talent does at the workplace... its what I try to hire everyday... its what makes you a top $ man in the real world...yes these guys are good its not about the devs efforts really...some above said great things....really its about what does the avg d&d player need to stay motivated...heck I dont know and as my good friend Bor has stated I love the game I have given more tomes and +6 items/ and over 2 mil gold away in the last 10 days to non guildies in pugs than I can count for free just to hear the excitement in their voices ... I love grouping with people I dont know
Its D&D I aint going anywhere:D

Borror0
10-26-2007, 10:01 AM
Yes, I've been in the raid. No, I do not like how it is designed since lag, computer performance and targetting bugs have more impact on any of the "puzzles" than character or player skills. However, Eladrin said they are monitoring the situation with the puzzles and will change them if it is obvious, to them, that it's needed.

The part I don't understand is why they think it's so easy.

I'd liek them to explain it to me. I've never seen someone succeeding any puzzle, I've heard of a few doing so. Never seen one.

A simple, it'sa much easier than you guys think would be enough if there is soemthing hidden. A "Well, we do it easily here. But if you guys thnik it's too hard, we'll make it easier."


Yes, it was silly to merge all those threads, but that was a moderator decision, not a developer one, we can't really penalize them for a mistake made with the forums.

Well, I can blame Turbine? Because that's I'm doing.


DDO has been "bleeding players" for a long time according to the forums. Yet I constantly see new people in game and almost never have an issue finding a group.

Well, I'm talking aobut in-game. I don't let the forums get to me. But when 90% of the people I talk to, that has made the raid so far, say that they are ****ed off. That most of them wonder what Turbine is thinking... I think that I can safely assume that over the half of the person concerned hate it.

People that haven't done the raid yet weren't targeted by that raid. That was a raid made for the 'elite' as they said. The elite is ****ed off, and most players are mad about the Firewall change.

I've seen numberous players quitting recently, that's a fact.


The changes to the raid were explained -- they wanted it to be harder and for people not to use dying as a valid "tactic" in the raid.


I know... but what about dying against the Abbot... anything could be done against that penalty? I mean, you roll a one a day or another. Reaver was alright, you could tank him like there is no tomorrow, there is no fail a save and die.


The changes to the raid loot was because it was the best option they could come up with after they saw that the old way rewarded people for short-manning raids or using "tricks" so that only one or two people were in at the completion to loot the chest. They have said all along that they wanted raids to be huge endeavors with full raid parties, they made this change to try to accomplish that.

And then they make the most PuG unfriendly raid there is...:rolleyes:

But my point is, why wouldn't they explain why they make a change when the player base complain about it?
Is that too much to ask?

They could take 10-20 minutes of they time and write about that issue. Tell us why they made it like this, if there is anythnig they aren't quite fond of. Was there any limitation in coding, if so how would they have done it.

I think it'd result in much more peaceful forums.

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 10:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenor
I think I just almost fainted.

Dane and Davey (the DnD tandem, LOL) are absolutely right.

And to the OP, I'm not quite sure what more you expect from Turbine. The developers come here and post in their FREE time, would you be doing work during your break time at the office?


buddy thats called customer service...In sales terms its called "commission"
in retail terms its called "the customer is always right" its what we all expect of our employees...its what top talent does at the workplace... its what I try to hire everyday... its what makes you a top $ man in the real world...yes these guys are good its not about the devs efforts really...some above said great things....really its about what does the avg d&d player need to stay motivated...heck I dont know and as my good friend Bor has stated I love the game I have given more tomes and +6 items/ and over 2 mil gold away in the last 10 days to non guildies in pugs than I can count for free just to hear the excitement in their voices ... I love grouping with people I dont know
Its D&D I aint going anywhere...so if you want to be a smarta.. and say things about me....YOU dont know me

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 10:19 AM
buddy thats called customer service...In sales terms its called "commission"
None of Turbine's employees gets paid on commission, and none of the people on these boards are salespeople.

in retail terms its called "the customer is always right"
The customer is not always right. This is an absolutely false statement. No sales/customer service manager in their right mind actually believes it.

PS you double posted :)

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 10:25 AM
The customer is not always right. This is an absolutely false statement. No sales/customer service manager in their right mind actually believes it.

Anyone who's worked for a week or more in a Customer Service position knows that the Customer is usually wrong.

Borror0
10-26-2007, 10:29 AM
The customer is not always right. This is an absolutely false statement. No sales/customer service manager in their right mind actually believes it.

Yeah, but the origin of the message reamins true:

Don't give to the custumers what they want, they'll go see someone else that does.

So, as long as Trubine are the less worse, they'll keep us here.:rolleyes:
That's, sadly, how it works.


PS you double posted :)

He also nina'd me. None of his replies were there when I submited mine!

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 10:32 AM
Yeah, but the origin of the message reamins true:

Don't give to the custumers what they want, they'll go see someone else that does.

So, as long as Trubine are the less worse, they'll keep us here.:rolleyes:
That's, sadly, how it works.

He also nina'd me. None of his replies were there when I submited mine!

And when all the customers disagree with each other?

Borror0
10-26-2007, 10:32 AM
And when all the customers disagree with each other?

They look at what made them loose customers and try to remedy the situation.

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 10:32 AM
Don't give to the custumers what they want, they'll go see someone else that does.

But if Turbine gave every customer exactly what he/she wants, they'd never have time to get any *actual* work completed.

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 10:33 AM
since we are so off topic here I will end it......

we are all selling something....and yes we are all making commission and yes the irs is taking about %45 of it...more you sell the more take home in the end...so lets go sell .....way off topic here.....just your payroll calls it salary but its ALL sales

jrp goes to find customer and tells them "they are wrong":eek:

o if you are in canada its 50%+...but the French girls in Montreal are worth it, and if your taking classes its your Prof taking your commissions and he/she is thanking you for it

Borror0
10-26-2007, 10:34 AM
But if Turbine gave every customer exactly what he/she wants, they'd never have time to get any *actual* work completed.

Yeah. They have to make compromise. It's a matter of knowing what's worth it.
Time spent versus money gained.

If a high enough majority is for a change and a very minor majjority is against the change, then it's better to do it.

Borror0
10-26-2007, 10:36 AM
o if you are in canada its 50%+...but the French girls in Montreal are worth it

Not only in Montreal. ;)

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 10:36 AM
They look at what made them loose customers and try to remedy the situation.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk.

But that's very easy to say, and doesnt' really answer the question or give a clear choice of direction to take.

There is ONE product in this case, and what people want out of it are often completely different. To the point where doing one, will cause the other to leave, NO MATTER WHAT.

So how do you resolve that?

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 10:39 AM
I'm not saying this to be a jerk.

But that's very easy to say, and doesnt' really answer the question or give a clear choice of direction to take.

There is ONE product in this case, and what people want out of it are often completely different. To the point where doing one, will cause the other to leave, NO MATTER WHAT.

So how do you resolve that?


make everyone think rationally....."make them all like the same thing, French women" :D

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 10:40 AM
make everyone think rationally....."make them all like the same thing, French women" :D

And if you don't like French women?

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 10:41 AM
If a high enough majority is for a change and a very minor majjority is against the change, then it's better to do it.

Honestly, this isn't always true.

Sometimes an unpopular change is the right thing to do. (Because that's more often the case: the majority is against a given change while a few people may support it.)

juniorpfactors
10-26-2007, 10:46 AM
And if you don't like French women?

guess you would like french men:eek:

Dane_McArdy
10-26-2007, 10:58 AM
guess you would like french men:eek:

Gurls do play this game.

I'm told.

Oreg
10-26-2007, 11:12 AM
make everyone think rationally....."make them all like the same thing, French women" :D


194 countries in the world. Many with beautiful women. And the best you could do is France? :D

Beherit_Baphomar
10-26-2007, 11:36 AM
Except for all the posts from Codog and Eladrin...you know that direct communication we've been getting from the developers.

That doesnt count....thats.....its......doesnt work........

Dont even talk about Bunsen........

Ghoste
10-26-2007, 12:13 PM
The part I don't understand is why they think it's so easy.
So wait...you got the impression somehow that they intended it to be easy?

Seriously? Is that what you really thought? It's supposed to be easy?

I can understand not wanting it to be insanely difficult, but where did you get the notion that the devs sat down and decided they would design an easy raid?

I know you can't find any posts by devs saying it's supposed to be easy, and I doubt any players have said so. Plenty have said it's possible, but that's a far cry from easy.

Aspenor
10-26-2007, 12:15 PM
So wait...you got the impression somehow that they intended it to be easy?

Seriously? Is that what you really thought? It's supposed to be easy?

I can understand not wanting it to be insanely difficult, but where did you get the notion that the devs sat down and decided they would design an easy raid?

I know you can't find any posts by devs saying it's supposed to be easy, and I doubt any players have said so. Plenty have said it's possible, but that's a far cry from easy.

In fact, quite the opposite. RE: this raid, the devs posted that it is designed to challenge even the MOST experienced and highly trained parties.

But where are my manners, to many players, challenge = bugs and impossibility.

5footStep
10-26-2007, 12:32 PM
The more constructive feedback, be it positive or negative, we can give to them the better the game is going to be. (snip).. But, there's a lot of negativity on the boards these days that doesn't serve anyone well. Try to set those feelings aside a bit as you express yourself and express them in a way that allows your points to be heard rather than just your tone.



*waves the MT flag* Totally Mystic.. Totally!

Oh... and since somewhere in this crazy thread there were contests mentioned I will shamelessly plug mine!


Stormreach's Haunted Hallows Video Contest! (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=121768&highlight=haunted+hallows)

Tonight is the last chance to get your entries in !!!

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Don't make me say..
It Rubs The Lotion On It's Skin, Or It Gets The Unicorn Forum Page Again..

ooopps.. sorry.. uh... dang... caught up in creepy halloween already

Ghoste
10-26-2007, 12:32 PM
In fact, quite the opposite. RE: this raid, the devs posted that it is designed to challenge even the MOST experienced and highly trained parties.

But where are my manners, to many players, challenge = bugs and impossibility.
Apparently it also equals no planning.

Cupcake
10-26-2007, 12:45 PM
guess you would like french men:eek:

Hands you a cupcake.

*Is a bit worried about junior.

Borror0
10-26-2007, 04:59 PM
194 countries in the world. Many with beautiful women. And the best you could do is France? :D

Nope, Quebec!!:D;)

But I agree, only thing that can beat Quebec girls are Spanish girls.


So wait...you got the impression somehow that they intended it to be easy?

Seriously? Is that what you really thought? It's supposed to be easy?

I can understand not wanting it to be insanely difficult, but where did you get the notion that the devs sat down and decided they would design an easy raid?

Ok, I'll correct myself, they never said it was easy. But they seem to think it's not as hard as we think.

Honestly, I don't understand why they think it isn't that hard. It's possible to do it, but very unlikely in it's current form. You have to succeed the Ice puzzle, then get an island made before the inferno, step on it and stay alive... because the island only last 13s (unless it's different from within the puzzle). Every single of your party member most follow you from island to island.

One party member touches the water... he dies. One party member with a wand die... you're screwed.


In fact, quite the opposite. RE: this raid, the devs posted that it is designed to challenge even the MOST experienced and highly trained parties.

Yes, meaning people that know their character welll and got twitch skills above the average.

However, it is only about twitch skills. Asp, I know you're been in there a few times (assuming, but knowing who you are it is very unlikely to be false). Do you really think that the googles are possible. I mean, do you really think that someone practicing over and over again would be successful at it over 50% of time?


But where are my manners, to many players, challenge = bugs and impossibility.

I enjoy challenge, this is why I play. I simply do not think the raid is correct in its current form.

It needs some fix, that's for sure.