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View Full Version : New Raid Loot Proposal



barecm
10-25-2007, 06:39 AM
Thinking about the current loot system, there are a lot of unhappy people who feel that they are not getting anything out of doing the Raids. yes, they are genearally fun... the first time you run it. But say after 15, 25, 35 times well... its about the loot at that point.

Anyway, I would like to suggest that instead of giving a 50/50 every 20 times completed. Let's get a shot at 25% (or whatever is a whole number in that general percentage) of the loot table every 10 times. This way, the casual gamer has a shot at some loot every once in a while and the power gamer feel like he/she is accomplishing something.

I know it would mean that people theorectically will exhaust loot tables twice as fast, but every 20th time is just too long considering you may not get a single peice of loot until your 20th time if you have some bad luck.

AEschyl
10-25-2007, 08:43 AM
I know it would mean that people theorectically will exhaust loot tables twice as fast, but every 20th time is just too long considering you may not get a single peice of loot until your 20th time if you have some bad luck.

and even then you may not be offerend ANYTHING you want

i would /sign your proposal :)

Dane_McArdy
10-25-2007, 09:20 AM
Um, I kinda of like this idea.

Prinstoni
10-25-2007, 09:24 AM
I suggest we just get a full list at every 20th completion, so you can finally get what you want instead of all this randomness.

tihocan
10-25-2007, 12:41 PM
I'm not sure I like it, the probability I can choose the one item I want after 20 raids would basically be 1 - (1 - 0.25)^2 = 43.75%, compared to 50% currently, I lose :(

barecm
10-25-2007, 01:21 PM
I'm not sure I like it, the probability I can choose the one item I want after 20 raids would basically be 1 - (1 - 0.25)^2 = 43.75%, compared to 50% currently, I lose :(

Yeah, but you would be guaranteed 4 pieces of loot when you complete your 20th raid instead of just one. Maybe not what you want, maybe yes. Plus, you still have the same chance to get loot while completing those runs. This maybe cures the boredom factor a bit too.

tihocan
10-25-2007, 01:23 PM
Yeah, but you would be guaranteed 4 pieces of loot when you complete your 20th raid instead of just one.
I assume you meant two?
You're right, it could be an interesting trade-off. Though personally I like 20. Even though I have no idea if I'll ever reach that number on any raid but the Reaver ;)

Issip
10-25-2007, 01:59 PM
I'm not exactly a casual player, I play this game a lot. On the other hand I have a fulltime professional job, and real life comes first for me so I'm not a hard core gamer either.

I have about 4-5 level 14 toons (been playing since pre-order). Taking one of those toons through the same raid 10 times would require more dedication than I am willing to put in (that's at least a month of running the same raid on the same toon every 3 days). I much prefer to do different raids with different toons to mix it up. I'm of course not planning on ever seeing raid loot again.

Pfamily
10-25-2007, 02:06 PM
It's an interesting idea, and I believe I would support it.

However, would keeping the 20-raid rule and increasing the probability of loot dropping for any individual raid sate the hungry among us?

Ironik
10-25-2007, 02:07 PM
I love this game, don't get me wrong. But i've already ruled out the fact that i'm never going to get anything from the abbot. I have yet to run the raid, probably won't for a long time and I KNOW i won't run it 20 times before the game is even dead. Hell, i'm 90% sure I won't run it 10 times, i just don't have the time for it. The system is completely geared towards powergamers and people who can play a lot more then I. Yet I still pay my 15 bucks a month for the game. Seems unfair in that regard. But whatever, i'm not upset at all, just explaining why I don't think this system is appropriate.

GramercyRiff
10-25-2007, 03:34 PM
Anything less than the full list at the 20th time I just can't support. It takes a long time to get 20 raids in, even if you run them everytime when the timer is up. Also, most of the loot is either not worth having, or specific to one class or archetype. Raiding 20 times should give the one piece of raid loot you really want from the list.

After your initial full list end reward, every 20 after that could do the 50% of the list, or even the 25% every 10 raids.

Though again, anything less than the full list after the 20th run is selling us short for time invested.

debo
10-25-2007, 04:01 PM
I suggest we just get a full list at every 20th completion, so you can finally get what you want instead of all this randomness.

yep... I have been saying this forever now... just give us the full list at every 20. However, I think a full list of tomes is a bad idea since they would be available to anyone who completes any raid 20 times... this would make tomes a little bit to easy load up on imo.

NiasTrams
10-26-2007, 04:30 AM
yep... just give us the full list at every 20...However, I think a full list of tomes is a bad idea since they would be available to anyone...

Are you saying you think you should get the entire list but not everyone else (and no, I don't think and hope that isn't what you meant, but you might be that selfish). But the +3 tomes are still bound on adding to inventory and raid loot while +2 tomes are random loot now; at least to my understanding.

A lot of people put ideas and discussion into this thread:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=123842

The threads author called it official but the moderators probably didn't agree because it wasn't stickied to the top.

Lot's of players have thrown up lots of ideas but haven't read anything by the devs to say what they may or may not be considering.

barecm
10-26-2007, 07:55 AM
I love this game, don't get me wrong. But i've already ruled out the fact that i'm never going to get anything from the abbot. I have yet to run the raid, probably won't for a long time and I KNOW i won't run it 20 times before the game is even dead. Hell, i'm 90% sure I won't run it 10 times, i just don't have the time for it. The system is completely geared towards powergamers and people who can play a lot more then I. Yet I still pay my 15 bucks a month for the game. Seems unfair in that regard. But whatever, i'm not upset at all, just explaining why I don't think this system is appropriate.

Some parallels here for me as you mention the Abbot. I felt the same way about the Titan. It was bugged at the start, never really got fixed right for a while. Ran it a few times on each of my toons,and then kind of tailed off. I think maybe 7 times at most on a single toon to date. However, since you can just jump in and do the Abott a la the Reaver, I think it will eventually become like the Reaver in that you can run it a bunch, get what you want out of it and then go back to the older raids to try to get to your 20, 40 ect... mark. Just my .02 on it. However, I still think making it a little more rewarding for the folks who do not run a lot of raids, give us something for 5 or 10 runs (whatever). 20 times for a raid is a long, long time for some of us. Especially since there are not exactly a ton of folks anxious to run the Dragon and Titan anymore. DQ still get some play since the raid items are still pretty sweet and the Reaver is so easy with no pre-reqs (only the first time).

WaterDaemon
10-26-2007, 12:33 PM
I am a casual player now, had more time this summer and played alot. Now with school and homework I find it hard to play more then 5 hours a week. This makes it very difficult for me to do raids to get what loot I want. I have been playing since beta and I have ran the Dragon 3 times, Titan 1, DQ 2, Abbott 0.

The quests are just too long for a casual player to loot. And if you do loot, the chance that you will loot the quest 20 times is very unlikely. I like the thought that something drops after 5-10 (nothing huge like 20, 30), but just something to get players to feel like they aren't waisting their time.

The loot sometimes at the end of raids don't even match what you invested. Say you use 30 scrolls in quest (can cost alot of money) and you get dumb loot like masterwork items, some gold, rocks and maybe a +3 shield. Doesn't really make it worth doing 20 times "ATTEMPTING" to get one of the items on a list, most of which you won't be able to use. It just makes some players avoid them. Do it once to get the thrill and see what happens. Then they loose interest because after 30 loot runs without one drop it honestly get disheartening.

For me, any improvement on the loot would be helpful, as long as there is some cap for those toons who loot too often and greedily.

MysticTheurge
10-26-2007, 12:44 PM
I think there's a mathematical problem with your system that people aren't seeing.

We know the list is currently "half the items" but we also know that each item doesn't share the same chance to drop. Given that the list can't contain duplicates, the larger the list, the more likely it is that you'll get a rare (more coveted) item.

For example, if a raid list has 20 items on it and they drop in the following percentages:

Items 1-10 each have a 7% chance of dropping, Items 11-15 have a 5% chance of dropping, Items 16-20 have a 1% chance of dropping.

This means

Chance to get one of the 1-10 items: 70%
Chance to get one of the 11-15 items: 25%
Chance to get one of the 16-20 items: 5%

As you roll for each of 10 items, that item is removed from the list increasing the chance for each of the subsequent items.

If the first 5 items are 2, 5, 6, 7, and 9. The new percentages look like this:

Chance to get 1, 3, 4, 9 or 10: ~53%
Chance to get 11-15: ~39%
Chance to get 16-20: ~8%

If you're trying to get one of those rare items, the more items that are on the list, the higher and higher the chance gets that it'll actually be generated. Now, I'm not great with statistics, so someone else will have to determine if having a lower chance to pull an individual item, but more chances at the item (i.e. two pulls) actually increases or decrease the chance. But for sure, the shorter the list, the less likely you are to get a rare item on it.