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View Full Version : Is a Vorpal Sword a "Golden Ticket?"



SWGThorn
10-19-2007, 12:22 AM
I was frustrated by a fellow player who insisted I put my Vorpal Sword away on a quest. I told him I had just finished putting a critical accuracy IV build together, and wanted to try it out. He tried to pick a fight with me and when the cleric asked him not to he said "I can't resist..."

He began to whistle willy wonka's Golden Ticket song...LOL!

I put the sword away. I hope I don't see him again.

The point is I wish to be fair to folks who are dps-- cause a vorpal works too well.

I was quite dismayed at his sarcasm-- if he had not been so quick to say stuff like "Yeah right whatever buddy you just kill everything and we'll keep you hasted and healed."

I had asked the party leader if it was ok for a level 14 to be in the quest with 11's and 12's and he said sure... I don't know-- it seems sometimes a few folks get all the kills and the rest follow along...

BlueLightBandit
10-19-2007, 12:30 AM
Wow... so many things to critique here...

Let me just say that group cohesion was not overwhelming in your situation... I think a velcro comparison works best here.

Velcro... one side is soft, one side is prickly... but they stick together no matter what... In your case you were both being prickly, so the cohesive bond was severely lacking.

Vorpals should not be used against a number of mobs... if you were running a quest where a vorpal wouldn't be helpful, I would ask that you put it away too. If, on the other hand, he was asking because he thought you would be killing too many things... then you should have just done your thing and moved on.

The simple fact that you need some sort of justification to whatever response you may or may not have had seems to show that it upset you. In that case, you need to learn to relax and have fun. Crazy people are everywhere, don't let them affect your game experience.

Ninety
10-19-2007, 12:46 AM
I've ran with a guild that didn't believe in vorpals or para or smiting and the like. I ran pop with them once, and pulled out a vorpal for the mini demon queen thing, lobbed her head off, and the only thing they said to me after that was "he had potential"

Some people like them, some don't. either way I'm going to use my loot as I see the need.

Pfamily
10-19-2007, 01:39 AM
No worries SWG; it's your game to play as you wish. If the party you're in doesn't meet your expectations, you can drop and find another.

Just because someone else missed a pill that day, don't let them interfere with your enjoyment of the game.:p

Boldrin
10-19-2007, 05:17 AM
I would never let someone tell me what weapons to use in a quest, unless they know my weapon won't work at all there. Play your character the way you want. Vorpals are effective in certain situations, and just because someone wants to lead killcount, doesn't mean you have to let them. Vorpals are by no means a golden ticket. But the right vorpal can be DPS and instakill.

Azoralq
10-19-2007, 07:31 AM
I dunno. A part of my feel's the party's pain, cause I too detest paralyzers and vorpals. Probably not for the same reason though. I don't care about leading on the kill count (Though it is fun when I do.). I just think that paralyzers and vorpals defeat the purpose of your 'badass DPS build.'

You are there to do as much damage as possible, so why are you wielding a +1 paralyzing sword of pure good to make the mob stand still, when you could kill the thing in 15, maybe 16 hits with your +3 Holy Burst Longsword of Pure Good?

Yes yes, Paralyzers have a use. Even I see that, a ****** cleric in the party benefits from a paralyzer, for example. But..why not leave the paralyzing to the support? Bard, Thief, a bow, etc? And let the DPS do...well... DPS?

But as everyone else is saying. It's your thing, do what you wanna do. If you wanna run around collecting heads, go for it. All I care about is that we get the quest done, not what weapon you are using.

Shaamis
10-19-2007, 07:58 AM
I use my paralyzer for the benefit of the party, if I can keep the mobs that are hitting me paralyzed, not only does that stop his dps cold in it's tracks, while others who aren't paralyzing, come beat him down. (having a wounding punturer in your off-hand also helps)

I like paralyzers because it means us ftrs dont have to rely on mage/cleric support to tackle the more difficult meat-mobs.

eventually the mobs might have paralyzers, and that will be a crazy fun day.

Azoralq
10-19-2007, 08:08 AM
eventually the mobs might have paralyzers, and that will be a crazy fun day

unless they severely beef up the Save DC for the enemies Paralyzer, it won't matter. I'm not certain, but isn't a paralyzers DC for a weapon right now, DC 14? If so...no one can fail that even half the time, unless you roll a one. Even with a Base save of 4, Greater Heroism (Everyone has it), and a +4 Resistance Item (everyone has it), you'd only fail on a 2 or lower. Also, considering enemies swing significantly slower than us, we do not have the constant thread of saving that the enemies do, when a hasted fighter swings at them.

Average save on a person is what? mid to upper teens? They'd have to up the threat on a paralyzer in order to make it scary.

Edit: Let's not forget Freedom of Movement, too.

Now..if they gave enemies vorpals. I'm all for that.

Aspenor
10-19-2007, 08:14 AM
Paralyzers are DC 17 will save.

moorewr
10-19-2007, 08:18 AM
Enemies? Vorpals? Let's go run the pre-raid. :)


unless they severely beef up the Save DC for the enemies Paralyzer, it won't matter. I'm not certain, but isn't a paralyzers DC for a weapon right now, DC 14? If so...no one can fail that even half the time, unless you roll a one. Even with a Base save of 4, Greater Heroism (Everyone has it), and a +4 Resistance Item (everyone has it), you'd only fail on a 2 or lower. Also, considering enemies swing significantly slower than us, we do not have the constant thread of saving that the enemies do, when a hasted fighter swings at them.

Average save on a person is what? mid to upper teens? They'd have to up the threat on a paralyzer in order to make it scary.

Edit: Let's not forget Freedom of Movement, too.

Now..if they gave enemies vorpals. I'm all for that.

Thrudh
10-19-2007, 08:41 AM
Vorpals are highly over-rated...

If you can kill something, on average, in less than 20 swings... then you shouldn't be using a vorpal.

If the critter self-heals, regens, has massive hitpoints, whatever, that makes you use more than 20 swings on average.. then yes, use your vorpal.

Vorpals on your standard trash mobs is usually a waste...

Jomee
10-19-2007, 08:57 AM
Vorpals should not be used against a number of mobs... if you were running a quest where a vorpal wouldn't be helpful, I would ask that you put it away too. If, on the other hand, he was asking because he thought you would be killing too many things... then you should have just done your thing and moved on.


Ehh, Vorpals do still hit for damage, there is just some stuff immune to the head lopping off effect. I duel wield vorpal kopesh and do 60+ on a roll of 15 or more. Developers put vorpals in the game so if someone wants to cry about it , cry to them.

Ghaldar
10-19-2007, 09:02 AM
Weapons are all tools used for killing and or food collection....since we have turkey legs in the bars....weapons are for killin in DDO.

Each type of weapon has it uses. Some can do multiple jobs like your +2 adamantine shortsword of Dwarven Ale 3 times a day...etc.. Vorpals are good in SOME situations. Just as a flat head screwdriver is good for some situations. Para, smiters, disruptors etc. all have their place. I for one only break out the vorpal for certain npc's. I think a good transmuter of pure good has more uses than vorpal anyway.... and if anyone finds a nice transmuting great axe or pure good.....let me know I got a vorpal falchion, vorpal battle axe and, a vorpal bastard sword....just sitting in the bank.

Riot
10-19-2007, 09:22 AM
Vorpals are way overrated.

I cringe when I see a vorpal wielder in group because they are usually taking longer to kill most mobs than the average DPS people.

There's very few instances in the game where a vorpal is better than a DPS weapon, or another type of weapon.

I'd even go so far to say that paralyzers are a lot more useful in a group than vorpals.

(the above is speaking about the run of the mill vorpal weapons without extra enchantments on them.)

Saragon
10-19-2007, 09:51 AM
The guy in question seems have been hung up on kill count which is sad since if he had a decent dps build, he would have most likely kept up or even outkilled you. If he did have an issue with your choice of weapon, he could have asked nicely instead of being an ass about it.

The issue that I have with vorpals is that it is part of a tank's job to draw and keep aggro off the squishies. If you think you are doing significant damage with a +1 vorpal weapon, you need to break out a dps weapon, turn on the power attack and take another look.

If all the tanks in a party were using vorpals, they'd probably tear through stuff pretty fast but no faster than if they were all using dps. When one of you is using a vorpal and the other isn't, you aren't working together anymore because you are approaching the kill from different angles. If your vorpal goes off, the other guy just wasted his time beating the mob down to half its life. If the vorpal doesn't go off in the first few swings, the mob is still standing because you didn't match the other tank in getting rid off the other half of its life.

Vorpals have their uses. Some of those mini bosses in PoP like the vampire or demon queen can survive quite a beating from sustained dps from less powerful parties. A vorpal can be a great benefit in such a sitution. The average unnamed monster you encounter in a quest shouldn't take more than a few hits to take down and there should be no need to use a vorpal in the hopes that it will work on those first 6-7 strikes.

Ultimately, the choice is yours though. If you want to use one and the other tank doesn't, does it really matter? The quest will mostly likely still get done.

krrish
10-19-2007, 09:57 AM
blah i dont listen to anyone

i just use my muckbane on velah haha

Desteria
10-19-2007, 01:57 PM
unless they severely beef up the Save DC for the enemies Paralyzer, it won't matter. I'm not certain, but isn't a paralyzers DC for a weapon right now, DC 14? If so...no one can fail that even half the time, unless you roll a one. Even with a Base save of 4, Greater Heroism (Everyone has it), and a +4 Resistance Item (everyone has it), you'd only fail on a 2 or lower. Also, considering enemies swing significantly slower than us, we do not have the constant thread of saving that the enemies do, when a hasted fighter swings at them.

Average save on a person is what? mid to upper teens? They'd have to up the threat on a paralyzer in order to make it scary.

Edit: Let's not forget Freedom of Movement, too.

Now..if they gave enemies vorpals. I'm all for that.

There already is a mob that has A paralizer of power, A destruction Vorpal, A wounding & puncturing weapon(this one HURTS fast even with 36 con), Curse spewing Gtr dwarf bain, and Unholy burst Maining weapon and changes between them, It is the most fun and coolest red names in the game imo.

It's funny watchign peopel get paralized even if the dc17 is mostly only a fail on 1 thing he swings purty fast, the vorp is not a worry since Deathward stopes it, On leet the fact that mobs seam to beable to go through 100% fort means that woundign punchter especaly combined with the mobs defesive aure is scary it;s the one he normaly gets kilsl with, though the first tiem we met him and did nto have deathward up on every one was realyl funny when he vorped 2 peopel int he first few seconds.

moorewr
10-19-2007, 03:54 PM
He IS awesome! I was on with my sorc and I teamed up with a wizard and tried two-manning him (hey, we were bored). We got him, but there were a number of wipes along the way. Fun all around -- real sense of accomplishment when we killed him. That's some great coding, devs...

Then we hit the force traps in the chute and called it a night. Ouch.


There already is a mob that has A paralizer of power, A destruction Vorpal, A wounding & puncturing weapon(this one HURTS fast even with 36 con), Curse spewing Gtr dwarf bain, and Unholy burst Maining weapon and changes between them, It is the most fun and coolest red names in the game imo.

ccheath776
10-19-2007, 05:06 PM
I was frustrated by a fellow player who insisted I put my Vorpal Sword away on a quest. I told him I had just finished putting a critical accuracy IV build together, and wanted to try it out. He tried to pick a fight with me and when the cleric asked him not to he said "I can't resist..."

He began to whistle willy wonka's Golden Ticket song...LOL!

I put the sword away. I hope I don't see him again.

The point is I wish to be fair to folks who are dps-- cause a vorpal works too well.

I was quite dismayed at his sarcasm-- if he had not been so quick to say stuff like "Yeah right whatever buddy you just kill everything and we'll keep you hasted and healed."

I had asked the party leader if it was ok for a level 14 to be in the quest with 11's and 12's and he said sure... I don't know-- it seems sometimes a few folks get all the kills and the rest follow along...


Not necessarily the golden ticket but also not useless. It really depends.

If I got a vorpal it would be all I used unless I came up on a mob that could not be vorpaled.

I have had people complain about my Two handed fighter but then I explain my AC is a standing 50 with no shield and they quickly pipe up.

The point is people need to stop telling others how to play, simple as that. what need is there to do it.
Unless they are giving instruction on a certain way they are going to take on the boss. In which case it would be wise not to attempt to do so for my barbarian who will just laugh, pull out his longem Korgon swordemething
and go bash him. Using the spell face block tequnique.

In other words, most players know what they are doing and dont need to be told, disarm here, or use this particular weapon.
If I see someone at level 14, there is very little instruction I am going to give them because I assume they would have a good ammount of in game play to be a 14.

And there are times where I realize my fighter is getting whacked and needs to go sword and board.

In other words as far as fighting, believe me I can handle it. If I dont, I die. thats my mistake not yours.

Aranticus
10-21-2007, 08:36 AM
i think it just boils down to mentality and also how one adjust. take pop for example. i'd use my vorp if the caster is going to insta kill and if the caster is the type that uses mass hold, i'll pull out my holyburst of pure good. in the rooms, vorpals rate better due to the high hp potential of named mobs (DR too)

being flexible is extremely important. if you are specced for vorpal, good for you. however, you might find yourself at a loss when faced with mobs that cant be vorpaled, ie gianthold tor. specialist builds are awesome, but only in the correct quest.....

Griphon
10-21-2007, 08:54 AM
Vorpals have their uses. Some of those mini bosses in PoP like the vampire or demon queen can survive quite a beating from sustained dps from less powerful parties. A vorpal can be a great benefit in such a sitution. The average unnamed monster you encounter in a quest shouldn't take more than a few hits to take down and there should be no need to use a vorpal in the hopes that it will work on those first 6-7 strikes.


QTF.
My 'Tank' is a dwarven fighter Kopesh user w/ Stunning Blow. I only ever use a Vorpal in PoP on the Vampire. It's the only time that it seems to be more useful in killing things over an Elemental/Alignment burst weapon.

Any certain weapon is useful in a select number of instances. Just find the right weapon for the job and kill as fast as possible.

Frzblaster
10-21-2007, 11:46 AM
Come on people, everyone knows the real 'Golden Ticket' in the game is Wall of Fire :D

moorewr
10-21-2007, 12:05 PM
Come on people, everyone knows the real 'Golden Ticket' in the game is Wall of Fire :D

The flames.. so pretty... I can never resist...

My #1 criticism of the AI, even with the changes made in Mod 4.2, is how intelligent mobs respond to persistent area of effect spells - Wall of Fire, Cloudkill and the rest.

They're pathed to aggro on the caster and attack; so far so good, but if they can't reach you their first business ought to be to try and leave the area of effect. Wall of Fire is a defensive spell in most circumstances in PnP for this very reason.

I just re-ran Maze of Madness - what a joke, still. Open the door, walk in, drop the cloud, back and close.. wait for your puller...

Strakeln
10-21-2007, 01:21 PM
I ran pop with them once, and pulled out a vorpal for the mini demon queen thing, lobbed her head off, and the only thing they said to me after that was "he had potential" ROFL!

I'm not even sure how to respond to that, but I think it's pretty damn funny.

boldarblood
10-21-2007, 04:35 PM
95%+ of the time vorpals are not the best choice to use. Your much better served going with a high dps weapon.

Frodo_Lives
10-21-2007, 05:31 PM
Like most any weapon it has it's uses. However, as a main use, go to type weapon it is usually not the best choice.


That being said as long as you are not a drag on the party use whatever the heck you want.

Ghoste
10-21-2007, 05:34 PM
Easy enough solution, I think.

Simplicimus: stop using that vorpal.
Me: Why? Does it not work against these mobs for some reason?
Simplicimus: No, I just <insert whining here>
Me: Understood. I will nevertheless continue to use it, and I will now proceed to add your name to my squelch list. Please feel free to continue crying about it; I will however not be able to hear you.

Ghoste
10-21-2007, 05:36 PM
Come on people, everyone knows the real 'Golden Ticket' in the game is Wall of Fire :D
You ever seen a group hit with greater command in the middle of a firewall?

Hehe.

bandyman1
10-21-2007, 05:49 PM
Easy enough solution, I think.

Simplicimus: stop using that vorpal.
Me: Why? Does it not work against these mobs for some reason?
Simplicimus: No, I just <insert whining here>
Me: Understood. I will nevertheless continue to use it, and I will now proceed to add your name to my squelch list. Please feel free to continue crying about it; I will however not be able to hear you.

I'll be the first to admit the guy was being an ass.

That said, I have no intention of running a 15-20 minute quest in an hour, because the tank is taking twice as long to drop mobs while praying he rolls a 20.

Vorpals have their place ( I know, I have 5 of them ), but straight DPS works much faster against trash mobs.

Emili
10-21-2007, 07:25 PM
95&#37;+ of the time vorpals are not the best choice to use. Your much better served going with a high dps weapon.

I rarely use my vorpals... or many of my epics unless the cr is pretty middle if the road... I mainly use the SoS or a high plus khopesh with some greater bane on it. I will have to say though that 95% is far from when not to use them. People roll 20's more than you think and when it comes to higher ac mob ie.) fire giant champs and thier AC 46... a vorpal will drop them quicker than shear melee DPS of 200hp a crit hit nine out of ten times. Is just the numbers game. The Average mob hovers at 34ac but the higher you go that increases by 2. Check your combat logs... if you sit at an unbuffed to-hit of +33 then you're in good shape, dropping below means you'll start to miss once in a while and therefore become reliant on buffs.

Depends... your top dps build in a melee Barbs will breach about 200+hp damages on a crit on ave... top fighters a bit less topping in the 160-180 mark while a fully tricked out pally can hit a 400+ on smite. The highest dps in the game are a high elemental spec'd sorc or wizard with spell crits in 1200+ or 500+ crits in their aoe spells without really even trying.

Now do not get me wrong, as dps is an important thing in melee... I for one should know as you could not pass the 42 str barb (at the time I had her) in shear DPS among melee. The reality is though - as we approach lvl 16+ that melee based dps take more and more a backseat in delivering damage to mob to the arcane. 300hp on a crit? that will be a drop in the bucket.... 16 swings to bring down the baddest of mob will be too long and too much wasted resource in fact 10 swings will be too long. One and two hitters are what will count in the end-game in the near future.

Emili
10-21-2007, 08:10 PM
I'll be the first to admit the guy was being an ass.

That said, I have no intention of running a 15-20 minute quest in an hour, because the tank is taking twice as long to drop mobs while praying he rolls a 20.

Vorpals have their place ( I know, I have 5 of them ), but straight DPS works much faster against trash mobs.

That statement made me curious...

The average DPS difference between an SOS and a +2 vorpal greataxe is 9hp per second given the same melee build is using either (ran that thru the online weapon comparison tool). Considering one of 20 swings on average will be a vorpal if the dice are truely balanced as Turbine states they are... the worst case scenario for the vorpal is no 20 thus the SOS dealt 90 extra hp damages (takes 20 swings which is 10 seconds... 4 in a 2 second round) by the 20th swing... the average chance of vorpal however will be much lower since law's of probability state otherwise the mean of a 20 sided die is 10.5. I've not taken actual samples but I've reason to think when it comes to shear dps the vorpal balances out just slightly under an SoS and against high 1000+ hp mob most likely surpasses the SoS most the time.

Now thinking back though... I do not believe a +2 straight weapon is going to make a 15-20 quest take 4 times as long considering you can rip thru trash mob with ease literally using either... at most you're adding 10seconds to the total dps of each mob (which is impossible btw since they do not have the hp) thus a 20 min quest with 300 trash mob now takes 35 min should the fighter never vorpal... provided the fighter is the only one fighting anything.

Emili's fave 2hander is the SoS and her fave multi-purpose 1hander is a +4 holy Khopesh of righteousness, but I tend to wield a greater bane khopesh for the most signifcantly populated mobs... ie. +2 cripling Khopesh of greater giant bane, etc...

boldarblood
10-21-2007, 09:14 PM
I rarely use my vorpals... or many of my epics unless the cr is pretty middle if the road... I mainly use the SoS or a high plus khopesh with some greater bane on it. I will have to say though that 95% is far from when not to use them. People roll 20's more than you think and when it comes to higher ac mob ie.)

This is true. I run a Dwarf Rogue/Ranger (1/13) who dual wield dwarf/hand axe of vorpal and when I do use vorpal I get a ton of them, enough that I have been called abnormal with the number of 20's I get. I still find that a great majority of the time that I am more effective with high dps weapons. But its still fun to use the vorp once in awhile.

bandyman1
10-21-2007, 10:00 PM
That statement made me curious...

The average DPS difference between an SOS and a +2 vorpal greataxe is 9hp per second given the same melee build is using either (ran that thru the online weapon comparison tool). Considering one of 20 swings on average will be a vorpal if the dice are truely balanced as Turbine states they are... the worst case scenario for the vorpal is no 20 thus the SOS dealt 90 extra hp damages (takes 20 swings which is 10 seconds... 4 in a 2 second round) by the 20th swing... the average chance of vorpal however will be much lower since law's of probability state otherwise the mean of a 20 sided die is 10.5. I've not taken actual samples but I've reason to think when it comes to shear dps the vorpal balances out just slightly under an SoS and against high 1000+ hp mob most likely surpasses the SoS most the time.

Now thinking back though... I do not believe a +2 straight weapon is going to make a 15-20 quest take 4 times as long considering you can rip thru trash mob with ease literally using either... at most you're adding 10seconds to the total dps of each mob (which is impossible btw since they do not have the hp) thus a 20 min quest with 300 trash mob now takes 35 min should the fighter never vorpal... provided the fighter is the only one fighting anything.

Emili's fave 2hander is the SoS and her fave multi-purpose 1hander is a +4 holy Khopesh of righteousness, but I tend to wield a greater bane khopesh for the most signifcantly populated mobs... ie. +2 cripling Khopesh of greater giant bane, etc...

I don't doubt you Emili, but I've seen the effects of two tanks ( the only ones in the party at the time ) using nothing but vorpals and disrupters in Madstone elite. Was painful.

In all honestly, I don't put a lot of stock in the weapon comparison tool ( although it saddens me to knock something someone put such time and effort into :( ). Think about it. A 14th lvl barb with imp. crit. and the crit enhancements is critting on a 17-20 with that greataxe. That same barb is critting much more often with the SoS ( which is also a +5 weapon, garnering less misses, and more bonus damage ). Now I realize that the greataxe swings faster, but not by that kind of margin. Straight DPS, the SoS will leave it in the dust.

The gap between the DPS of the two only widens when you consider bursting greater banes.

The amount of twenties rolled isn't so surprizing when you consider the extra amount of swings you are taking at a mob with the lower DPS of the vorpal. It's still not enough to close the gap though in most instances.

Azoralq
10-21-2007, 11:33 PM
That statement made me curious...

The average DPS difference between an SOS and a +2 vorpal greataxe is 9hp per second given the same melee build is using either (ran that thru the online weapon comparison tool). Considering one of 20 swings on average will be a vorpal if the dice are truely balanced as Turbine states they are... the worst case scenario for the vorpal is no 20 thus the SOS dealt 90 extra hp damages (takes 20 swings which is 10 seconds... 4 in a 2 second round) by the 20th swing... the average chance of vorpal however will be much lower since law's of probability state otherwise the mean of a 20 sided die is 10.5. I've not taken actual samples but I've reason to think when it comes to shear dps the vorpal balances out just slightly under an SoS and against high 1000+ hp mob most likely surpasses the SoS most the time.

Now thinking back though... I do not believe a +2 straight weapon is going to make a 15-20 quest take 4 times as long considering you can rip thru trash mob with ease literally using either... at most you're adding 10seconds to the total dps of each mob (which is impossible btw since they do not have the hp) thus a 20 min quest with 300 trash mob now takes 35 min should the fighter never vorpal... provided the fighter is the only one fighting anything.

Emili's fave 2hander is the SoS and her fave multi-purpose 1hander is a +4 holy Khopesh of righteousness, but I tend to wield a greater bane khopesh for the most signifcantly populated mobs... ie. +2 cripling Khopesh of greater giant bane, etc....

Yes, yes. The whole not using vorpals thingy is great. I don't like vorpals, and never use 'em..ever. But when someone pulls out statitics like this, I can't help but scratch my head a bit in confusion. Maybe I'm just stupid.

This is comparing one person with a vorpal, then with an SoS, and deducing that the vorpal is not that much differant in damage, and thus the vorpal will likely come into activation before the mob is beat down. Ok..cool.

But this is one person. Do you go and solo Madstone often? Usually when I run it, I have a bare minimum of four people with me. Average party is gonna have at least 3-4 people hitting one given enemy at a time. So that's your damage calculation x3-4. Naturally, the mob is dying faster.

It's the same case with high AC mobs. Your average run of the mill fighter is gonna have a nice BaB when buffed. I say when buffed, because let's face it, when are you not buffed when you start a party? Unless you are fighting a beholder, someone is always buffed to the teeth.

Knowing this, it shouldn't be hard at all to high that uber powerful 43 AC. Granted, harder to hit than most 'trash mobs' as we call it, but still vulnrable to good 'ole fashion damage once hit.

the 20 roll on a vorpal, when boiled down to it, is just luck. It's a 'throw caution to the wind, and hope I roll a 20 first, so that I can pretend that I knew what I was doing, and claim I saved the day from that relitively easy enemy.' weapon.

We are talking about 'it's faster!' in terms of seconds here, if even that. If it were longer, say prolonging the fight 2 or so minutes than need be, then I'd be willing to wield a vorpal, in attempts to finish it off. I always smirk when I watch someone vorpal a sub boss when it only has 10&#37; hp left. That's like a mage casting Finger of Death on an enemy the ENTIRE PARTY was beating on, and had one swing away from death. (And I know you vorpal wielders get ****ed what that happens.)

If I ever do decide to keep a vorpal that I've pulled...I will likely use it in the sense that I will swing at a 'sub-boss' with a vorpal until either I roll a 20, or until the sub-boss hits less than 3/4 it's max hp. After that, I'd switch to a DPS weapon, because vorpalling something after that is likely just a waste of time, the thing was gonna die in 5-10 seconds anyway.

Torosar
10-21-2007, 11:45 PM
blah i dont listen to anyone

i just use my muckbane on velah haha

Nah Krish, Muckdoom is more gud.

Anyway, on a more serious note.. everyone derives different experiences from this game. Sure some people will look to maximise their damage with gr bane weapons, SoS and Deahtnip.. because that's the way they are inclined, others may enjoy the risk / chance that embody vorpals and prefer them.. each to his own. I don't think any real item/spell/ability is a golden tricket.. anything in this game can be achieved with good team-work and for harder fights.. careful & well communicated planning. Except for rare circumstances (when someone is doing something immensly narrowminded - i.e continuously dying from wielding a vicious club of disruption and wondering why he isn't getting healed) no one really should be told how to play their toon. A leader of a party i feel is entitled to suggesting particular courses of action at certain times, but in general play every player should do what allows them to have fun.. because at the end of the day, we are all just a bunch of guys and girls trying to have fun.

Ghoste
10-21-2007, 11:56 PM
I'll be the first to admit the guy was being an ass.

That said, I have no intention of running a 15-20 minute quest in an hour, because the tank is taking twice as long to drop mobs while praying he rolls a 20.

Vorpals have their place ( I know, I have 5 of them ), but straight DPS works much faster against trash mobs.
Well now, that would be an entirely different conversation...

Bandyman: Stop using that vorpal.
Me: Why?
Bandyman: Considering the damage output you can do with that other sword you were using before, and how many swings it takes to succeed on a vorpal, and how few hp these particular guys have you'll kill them faster with the other sword.
Me: Hmm...now that makes a bit of sense.

See? See how much easier it is to just make sense than to b**** and moan? (not directed at you, bandyman).

Unfortunately not many people take your approach. Often that is because their "strategy" isn't as sound, but when it is they need to learn to use their big people words.

justjeff
10-22-2007, 05:25 AM
What I think is great is that when I'm in a high lvl party I really don't need any of the uberloot cause someone inevitably has one. The devs put so much loot in the game that everyone in party doesn't need to be wielding their vorp, disruptor, banisher, etc. But inevitably everyone in party has one of all of them. I don't do many loot runs cause I find them very tedious, repetitive and boring. I could careless if I have some +5 mith full plate to replace my +4 mith full plate....it's +1 more for crying out loud. Hence, I have been playing since early start-up and just within the last month got my first vorpal...a very nice one...a long sword with no RR. But now that I've got one I find them very overrated. I'd much rather be dealing out damage every swing than swinging, rolling and hoping for a crit and confirmed crit.

I don't care about kill counts and as long as the quest is going smoothly I'd never tell anyone how to play their character. If we're ever in party you can get all the kills you want, I'll still get equal xp and loot.

Emili
10-22-2007, 05:33 AM
Nah Krish, Muckdoom is more gud.

Anyway, on a more serious note.. everyone derives different experiences from this game. Sure some people will look to maximise their damage with gr bane weapons, SoS and Deahtnip.. because that's the way they are inclined, others may enjoy the risk / chance that embody vorpals and prefer them.. each to his own. I don't think any real item/spell/ability is a golden tricket.. anything in this game can be achieved with good team-work and for harder fights.. careful & well communicated planning. Except for rare circumstances (when someone is doing something immensly narrowminded - i.e continuously dying from wielding a vicious club of disruption and wondering why he isn't getting healed) no one really should be told how to play their toon. A leader of a party i feel is entitled to suggesting particular courses of action at certain times, but in general play every player should do what allows them to have fun.. because at the end of the day, we are all just a bunch of guys and girls trying to have fun.

Which is the point of my statement and researching the output of both weapons... one person weilding a vorpal vs a SoS is not going to make a significant difference in the time it takes to do a quest... I mean heck, most trash mobs, I don;t even waste the time and will run by them (sure take out the casters if they're likely to follow and be a nusance.) But if nobody is interested in xp the usual tactic is just eliminate those that are there to give you trouble and the rest are not worth the time to swing at... move onward and get to the mini-boss, the puzzle or the endboss. Unless you're getting xp or someone in the group is why even bother with conquest unless some reward is present for it. Then again is my strategy but mostly play along with the group wishes. You want something dead then kill it... I don't care how. What I do care about is if you're blowing cleric sp while doing it - I do not think his idea of fun is to spam heal people and use up cash in scrolls and wands or his sp which can be used for many other things he can have fun with. I know people who dual wield epics, I know people who use sword and board or 2handers in dps ... really does not make a lot of difference in the end or even the time it takes to reach the end. Player's can make difference in the speed of a quest and most often a good team is the ultimate in making the speed difference in a quest not what weapon they're using.

Riorik
10-22-2007, 05:40 AM
He began to whistle willy wonka's Golden Ticket song...LOL!


How'd you remember the darn song or even tell he was doing it thru the mic?
Methinks the humor & sarcasm was carried forth into the thread also?

Emili
10-22-2007, 06:00 AM
How'd you remember the darn song or even tell he was doing it thru the mic?
Methinks the humor & sarcasm was carried forth into the thread also?

I got a golden ticket... I got a golden twinkle in my eye.

Oh! Bloody heck now that dang song is stuck in my head!:D

jkm
10-22-2007, 12:01 PM
The highest dps in the game are a high elemental spec'd sorc or wizard with spell crits in 1200+ or 500+ crits in their aoe spells without really even trying.

i apologized twice for hitting the wrong button (2x) :o

Emili
10-22-2007, 12:33 PM
i apologized twice for hitting the wrong button (2x) :o

Lol, you know you could have set your new record last night to about 18 min... but that's ok:D Did not mind wiating around the extra 2 minutes and you did a great job... 2 very quick runs.

Altarboy
10-22-2007, 02:16 PM
Easy enough solution, I think.

Simplicimus: stop using that vorpal.
Me: Why? Does it not work against these mobs for some reason?
Simplicimus: No, I just <insert whining here>
Me: Understood. I will nevertheless continue to use it, and I will now proceed to add your name to my squelch list. Please feel free to continue crying about it; I will however not be able to hear you.

I'm with this guy...I hate when other players tell me what weapon to use I have all the appropriate weapons for all the various damage types and I also use vorpals as well as disrupters...etc...Usually I'll be very vocal if I get one of these tell-you-how-to-players and tell them to ****...My favorite thing is when I have one in the group, I ignore him, continue using what I was and destroy him in the kill count