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View Full Version : Divine Light is really just Divine LOL



Shaamis
10-11-2007, 09:22 AM
Please consider a boost to the power of Divine Light.

At level 14, 12d6 damage, save for half, equates to:
12 * 3.5 (average d6 roll) =42 points of damage. save makes it 21 points.

That isn't enough damage to get their aggro, let alone hurt them significantly.

Also, at teh cost of 2,4,and 6 action points, it is overpriced.

I made a paladin specifically for fighting undead, and at 11th level, I am finding a paladin is woefully prepared and under-gunned, compared to undead minions with 500+hp, monster saves, and inflated resistances to turning.

Please consider a revamping of these "undead fighting abilities" because it is not even close to being comperable.

Vinos
10-11-2007, 09:24 AM
Yeah I was stoked when it 1st came out but i quickly respecced out of it.

MysticTheurge
10-11-2007, 09:30 AM
I wonder if they couldn't make it an effect that centered on you and pulsed doing damage every few seconds.

Mad_Bombardier
10-11-2007, 09:37 AM
I have not played with it, but one can assume that DL uses the same modified damage dice as all spell damage in DDO (DL3, 14d3+42). And according to the Online Compendium, the cost is 1-2-3. :confused:

Still, even with 10+ Turn Attempts, 63dmg per hit on a failed save is a pittance. They should take away the save. Take for example, a group of 6 undead. 63 average damage per use x 6 mobs = 189 average damage per use. You'd have to use it 5+ times to kill an average undead Orchard inhabitant. Even versus a light vulnerable vampire, it's 126, but probably back down to 63 on a save. You're better off using LayonHands.

Maybe DL should be a passive attack with your Turn Undead? If you invest in DL, you get a combo of light damage added to your Turn attempts? With all the new Turn items, that could be minorly useful.

Aesop
10-11-2007, 09:42 AM
I think they should just change it to Disciple of the Sun

have it burn two chargess of Turn Undead and Destroy any that are turned :)

Aesop

Talcyndl
10-11-2007, 01:19 PM
With three levels of Divine Light and 11 turns, my Pally finds it pretty useful in numerous quests. I've found I usually hit for 50+ against any undead near me. It's really a nice little mass attack to have. It works really well at the end of the Temple of Vol - well assuming I can get more than a few off before the firewalls eat all the Vamps. :)

Not to say I wouldn't mind seeing it be more powerful. :)

Shaamis
10-11-2007, 01:42 PM
And according to the Online Compendium, the cost is 1-2-3. :confused:

I think you are right, in my bitterness, I might have made that mistake, but as it is right now:

paladin 11 with 25 Charisma, 16 turn attempts/rest, and Divine Light II, in the Orchard, doing 40-45 damage, 18-23 when they save (50% chance from what I saw)

I was barely getting aggro from this attack, and that just don't seem right.

I have tried to turn undead while in the orcherd with a sacred item (dont have the special helm yet) but it is 100% ineffective. I have all of the undead turning enhancements/feats, and it still doesn't work.

At this point, I am wondering whats the point

MysticTheurge
10-11-2007, 01:49 PM
I have tried to turn undead while in the orcherd with a sacred item (dont have the special helm yet) but it is 100% ineffective. I have all of the undead turning enhancements/feats, and it still doesn't work.

At this point, I am wondering whats the point

The truth is, this is a problem with the way Turning works in D&D. Turning just becomes useless at high levels. It always has (in third edition).

Though, they at least seem to recognize that and it appears that Turning will work differently in 4.0. One can only hope we get similar updates in DDO.

Twerpp
10-11-2007, 01:54 PM
Paladins should be the best melee class when it comes to destroying undead. At best they are somewhat equalized to other classes by the fact that undead are crit immune. Some of the paladin abilities are a joke..but I think every class has a handful of worthless enhancements. Anyway maybe you could comp this with a Pally exclusive weapon that will give them an edge when fighting undead.

JosephKell
10-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Creatures weak to light take +50% (or more) damage from DL. When my Paladin did it in the "desecrated" temple of vol (how do you desecrate a vol temple? Did a bunch of Thrane Inquisitors set up shop?), it was spectacular.

However, I wouldn't mind if Divine Light were combined into turn undead.

But is it affected by the Cleric Light spell enhancements? Divine Light seems to work very well though for me (better than turn undead anyway).

gunhoe
10-11-2007, 02:18 PM
Was running favor last night with my lvl 14 cleric. I was in the lowest level nerco quests and I was able to make 2 / 3 afraid but destroyed none. I have a 20 cha and have the reaver gloves and black scale armor.

Zenako
10-11-2007, 02:32 PM
Minor correction: DL3 is 14d6 damage. Also the repeat casting times on the Divine effects is reeal short and they can be spammed.

Cleric spamming DL 3 and Empowered Mass Cure Serious can do pretty serious hurt to masses of undead. Is it uber, nah, but then neither is Fireball many times. Is it something to keep in your pocket and use, sure. As a paladin I have thought about taking the DL with my Turns, but have had other things to spend Enhancement points on.

JosephKell
10-11-2007, 02:36 PM
Was running favor last night with my lvl 14 cleric. I was in the lowest level nerco quests and I was able to make 2 / 3 afraid but destroyed none. I have a 20 cha and have the reaver gloves and black scale armor.The Bloody Crypt tombs on elite I assume? What were your rolls?

I'm not sure if Eternal Faith stacks with Sacred.

+5 modifier and Eternal Faith (guantlets of eternity) is a +7 modifier, for a min roll of 8 (HD = Turner level -1). And Eternal Faith is also +2 Max HD creature and 4 more total HD affected.

So the weakest HD limt would be 15. I don't see how you could really fail that, also anything with 7 HD or less is destroyed instead of turned.

That seems really weird.

stonecircle
10-11-2007, 02:43 PM
Ive been trying the Paladin turn abilities too. Divine righteousness works but its a very small area around yoruself so it doesnt attrack enough aggroe.

Divine light seems low in damage but in a area attack its great. You are doing a few hundred damage in a few seconds and Turn has almost no recharge time. Its not better then LOH or heal spell, but if you have enough foes surrounding you , you can burn through them so you can escape. Against vampires its awesome.

"turning" however is far from useless. On my level 14 pally I can turn 22-23(maybe more) HD stuff. He has the eternal faith gloves, and seriphim helmet so that helps alot. The items did not appear to stack with enhancements so I dropped the enhancements and wear the items. Still didnt notice difference. Either way I turn them then bash away if they are stunned. Great for annoying mummies, that run all over the place. When you have 10-12 uses of turn a day, its quite useful.

bigal4458
10-11-2007, 03:03 PM
Turn is useful if built for it. Divine Light is useful in a limited number of situations and against a limited number of foes. I agree that Paladin's should be awsome against undead, however we are no better than any other class with the exception of being able to use lay hands and turn some enemies.

This doesn't effect how well or how quickly we can destroy them. A boost to DL, or eliminate the save, and it may be worth it. Otherwise, I'll keep turn and spam 4 or 5 of them to scare a few annyoing skellies or mummies.

Talcyndl
10-11-2007, 11:48 PM
I ran Vol on elite a bit ago. I checked my combat log after the end fight and did 80 - 90 points of damage to each Vampire, each activation. With 11 turns, and the quick recharge, it was a lot of damage.

Shaamis
10-12-2007, 06:46 AM
After thinking about it last night, I'm gonna see if I can salvage the character, by re-doing some feats, and see if I can take her in a different direction. I was thinking a TWF bludgeoning specialist:

Elven 11 Paladin 32point (from memory)
Here she is: front (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/mtmouse3/MFPfront.jpg)/back (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m285/mtmouse3/MFPback.jpg)
base stats
Str10
Dex 19 (17+2)
Con 9 (11-2)
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

4 Feats total: Weapon Finess, and undead specc'ed (extra turning, heightened turning) and Improved crit: piercing

She is keeping the +5 MFP as her armor, but she has no UMD.

I am thinking Weapon Finess, TWF, ITWF, GTWF and use Lt Disruptors, but DR of some mobs might kill me.

Any suggestions are appreciated, and welcome.

Knightrose
10-12-2007, 06:59 AM
Personally it's like Tal says.

DL works pretty good. It's situational and worth the enh if you are going full Pally.

I've always thought Paladins were WAY under played by a lot of players in DDO. A Paladin can really save a group out of nearly and wipe-like circumstance. Guess it just takes a smarter player.

Course on the other hand I can't blame them. When you have Barbarians running around. Sort of makes most jobs trivial.

Shaamis
10-12-2007, 07:16 AM
Personally it's like Tal says.

DL works pretty good. It's situational and worth the enh if you are going full Pally.

I've always thought Paladins were WAY under played by a lot of players in DDO. A Paladin can really save a group out of nearly and wipe-like circumstance. Guess it just takes a smarter player.

Course on the other hand I can't blame them. When you have Barbarians running around. Sort of makes most jobs trivial.

Don't get me wrong, her staying power, even with a low con and wis, is still phenomenal, but her dps is horrible.

I have decent items, but she is my sixth highest character in my account, so she doesn't get my exceptional primo loot. She is a fun character, that I like to play when I want to beat down some undead, and I'm not getting that feel from her, because of how dismally effective the DL seems to be.

Karethon
10-12-2007, 11:17 AM
Does the DL damage benefit any from the Light/Good enhancements, or Radiance style items? I have not used DL at all, but would not expect it to. But then again, I would not expect a Dragonmark ability to be enhanced by a metamagic feat (but that's just me).

Treerat
10-12-2007, 08:23 PM
1) Divine Light does 14d6 per shot at maximum rank. Plus its a light-based undead-only AE and it just happens that the majority of undead are vulnerable to light-based attacks. So its more akin to rolling 28d6 for damage per turn and most of us will have 10+ turns by 14. Now if we can enhance it with the Radiance line of items... thats almost 1500 damage. Now figure using that against 4+ monsters (its an AE remember) and things really start to add up.

2) Divine Light costs 1, 2, and 3 AP for the ranks not 2, 4, 6. That makes it pretty cheap actually. Limited in targets, but hard to find 6 points that can buy around 500 to 1000 damage without spending SP or feats.

3) Get Divine Righteousness, then use that before unloading the DLs to get an undeads' attention. Good place to use it - end room in Temple of Vol if you can persuade the group to NOT drop the firewalls before the fight. Hit DR before talking to the priest, then start firing DL as soon as the vampires appear. I promise you, the main problem will be keeping alive. I've done that with my tank, and even though he only gets the second rank, he can still grab all the vampires attention even through pre-set firewalls.

Mad_Bombardier
10-13-2007, 08:29 AM
1) Divine Light does 14d6 per shot at maximum rank. Plus its a light-based undead-only AE and it just happens that the majority of undead are vulnerable to light-based attacks.The only undead that I can think of with vulnerability to light is Vampire.