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Shade
10-11-2007, 12:20 AM
Remember talking about max str numbers a while back, never thinking we'd get so high.. Hit a new high today:
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9788/screenshot01789lt7.jpg

Blood rage is fun.

nbhs275
10-11-2007, 08:11 AM
did madstone with you yesterday man, torrak. Nice stuff.

You where doing whatkind of damage in there man?

1d12+30 str +16 PA + 6 bard+5 weapon = 58-69, 192-225 crit?

Mad_Bombardier
10-11-2007, 08:57 AM
Shade, shouldn't it be 54?

18 Base
+3 Levels
+3 Tome
+6 Item
+2 Rage spell
+6 Greater Rage
+4 PowerRage IV
+4 Madstone Rage (x2)
+8 Blood Rage (x3)
54 STR

And what was your carrying capacity? Did you happen to look? Nothing like being able to deadlift the Stormreaver above your head! :D

Shade
10-11-2007, 09:07 AM
Shade, shouldn't it be 54?

18 Base
+3 Levels
+3 Tome
+6 Item
+2 Rage spell
+6 Greater Rage
+4 PowerRage IV
+4 Madstone Rage (x2)
+8 Blood Rage (x3)
54 STR

And what was your carrying capacity? Did you happen to look? Nothing like being able to deadlift the Stormreaver above your head! :D

hehehe I could lift 10 of him and toss him across them across the room.
127,680 pounds.

Oh and I can get stronger :)

Haven't got a +3 tome yet, so just use power rage III to save AP. Can move up to power rage IV, get the tome or the new littany of the dead trinket for 52.
For some reason 2 of the str from the bloodrage doesn't stack with something. Can't quite figure out what it is yet as I only hit that with every possible rage active.

Max dmg I can do in madstone is about 220 +25 glancing +18 greater bane = 263.

Strakeln
10-11-2007, 09:57 AM
hehehe I could lift 10 of him and toss him across them across the room.
127,680 pounds.

Oh and I can get stronger :)

Haven't got a +3 tome yet, so just use power rage III to save AP. Can move up to power rage IV, get the tome or the new littany of the dead trinket for 52.
For some reason 2 of the str from the bloodrage doesn't stack with something. Can't quite figure out what it is yet as I only hit that with every possible rage active.

Max dmg I can do in madstone is about 220 +25 glancing +18 greater bane = 263.If 2 of the bloodrage doesn't stack, then the current highest possible str is 56, right? (just wanna double check my calculations):

barb12/ftr2
18 base
3 levels
3 tome
6 item
6 greater rage
4 power rage
4 madstone rage (x2)
2 rage
6 bloodstone rage
3 alchemical bonus
1 ftr str 1
56 str (53 sans silly alchemical bonus, 52 for straight barb with no silly alchemical bonus)

Mad_Bombardier
10-11-2007, 10:22 AM
For some reason 2 of the str from the bloodrage doesn't stack with something. Can't quite figure out what it is yet as I only hit that with every possible rage active.The timer in your SS was at 0:00. Are you sure it hadn't just worn off? The entire +8 stacked in Aranticus' original explanation & screenie.

Edit: with Shade's addition.
Max currently possible should be 60 (with alchemical. which, despite player scoffing, are very handy for boss fights). I can't wait for Half-orcs and 63 STR! +26 to-hit/dmg. :D

Shade
10-11-2007, 10:25 AM
Think 2 more:

barb12/ftr2
18 base
3 levels
3 tome
6 item
6 greater rage
4 power rage
4 madstone rage (x2)
2 rage
6 bloodstone rage
3 alchemical bonus
1 ftr str 1
1 Human adapatability
1 Littany of the dead profane ability bonus
58 Str

Strakeln
10-11-2007, 10:58 AM
Think 2 moreOhhhh, nice! Always forgetting about those humans.

Strakeln
10-11-2007, 10:59 AM
The timer in your SS was at 0:00. Are you sure it hadn't just worn off? The entire +8 stacked in Aranticus' original explanation & screenie.

Edit: with Shade's addition.
Max currently possible should be 60 (with alchemical. which, despite player scoffing, are very handy for boss fights). I can't wait for Half-orcs and 64 STR! +27 to-hit/dmg. :DAh, that would make sense.

So, assuming we can verify that Shade's rage wore out and rage stacks with bloodrage, 60 is the new current highest strength, all agreed?

Insane! I want.

Shade
10-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Nah I've got screenshots with all rages showing a timer too, no difference I cant get above 50. They are still activte for a second while showing 0:00.

Maybe 50 is just like the hard cap for attributes?

Yvonne_Blacksword
10-12-2007, 01:04 PM
I just have one question...

Do your arms rip themselves off your body when you flex?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Dude...I used to work at my sister's resturant which was located next door to a gym...we had a special protein shake menu...just for the over indulgent ones...and those muscle bound types...the pros at least...Seemed to have low dexterities...couldn't even get the straw into the lid slot without help...had to twist sideways and all.
Big macho men...need help...from little old me...I had to show off and pop the straw through the slot with style...after watching them disintigrate a coulple first...:eek:
lol.
/flexes tiny muscles
/puts straw through the slot first time every time
:D

Mad_Bombardier
10-12-2007, 02:03 PM
Nah I've got screenshots with all rages showing a timer too, no difference I cant get above 50. They are still activte for a second while showing 0:00.

Maybe 50 is just like the hard cap for attributes?:eek: Say it ain't so! That would suck... :mad: My dreams of a Half-Orc Quadruple Raging Barbarian with 63 STR could be shattered. :(

For reference, let's look again at Blood Rage (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1370261#post1370261) by Aranticus. Then if we can't find any other explanation, let's ask in Dev Discussion.

Strakeln
10-12-2007, 03:04 PM
:eek: Say it ain't so! That would suck... :mad: My dreams of a Half-Orc Quadruple Raging Barbarian with 63 STR could be shattered. :(

For reference, let's look again at Blood Rage (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1370261#post1370261) by Aranticus. Then if we can't find any other explanation, let's ask in Dev Discussion.From that picture, we can tell something is messed up. Look at the strength in the character sheet... it shows 44. Look at the strength in the tooltip breakdown... it shows 42. It appears that Aranticus hit a timer, or possibly that there is a bug in what gets displayed in what window (my money is that Aranticus hit a timer and either the character sheet or tooltip had not been updated when that screenie was taken).

Also, Aranticus seems to say that you don't get the full rage effect immediately... that you must first obtain and lose L1, then L2, then L3, then the rage simmers back down to L2/L1/fatigue. So perhaps Shade (Axer) was at a L2 when he thought he was at L3 (or something along those lines).

I KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THIS!!! : Shade or Aranticus need to send me their item that gives them bloodrage. :D

Blind_Skwerl
10-12-2007, 03:32 PM
If there is a hard cap for stats at 50, it would prolly go up with a cap increase. I can see the cap going up before we get half-orcs. So you still may be able to get you half-orc, no foam, 63 str, quad mocha, barb.

To OP:
I am reminded about a post of funny things said while playing pnp D&D. One poster's subbmision:

Player: How much damage does a half-orc do?

DM: Well, that depends on what he has equipt, strength bonuses & etc..

Player: No, I mean, if I pick up the half-orc and throw him, how much damage does he do?

Nice on the strength. I can see I have a long way to go.

MrCow
10-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Maybe 50 is just like the hard cap for attributes?

I'm not sure if D&D has caps for attributes, but in a semi-related thing I know the cap for attributes in Neverwinter Nights is 50 as well.

Maybe we can consult the all knowing MysticTheurge or someone with similar knowledge on this subject.

ChildrenofBodom
10-12-2007, 05:52 PM
What isthis Bloodrage? Where do you aquire it?

Mhykke
10-12-2007, 06:41 PM
What isthis Bloodrage? Where do you aquire it?

Scourge Choker, cursed crypt.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/ScourgeChoker.jpg

Shade
10-15-2007, 12:36 AM
51 (http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/593/screenshot01822fr9.jpg)

(Got the littany of the dead beating the raid on hard tonight :))

MrCow
10-16-2007, 01:31 PM
Nice to see stats are not hard capped. :)

By the way, you are a physical paragon... I'm jealous.

Korvey
10-16-2007, 05:30 PM
odd question, but why were your hps only at 510 when you had a 48 con? You should be getting almost 200 just from the con bonus.

I ask because I am about to start a babarian and I have him slated for 500 hps with gear, but with out rageing.

Strakeln
10-16-2007, 06:26 PM
odd question, but why were your hps only at 510 when you had a 48 con? You should be getting almost 200 just from the con bonus.

I ask because I am about to start a babarian and I have him slated for 500 hps with gear, but with out rageing.He just needs to stop by Qwijymart more often :p

nbhs275
10-16-2007, 07:28 PM
He just needs to stop by Qwijymart more often :p

PLUG!

sign of a true salesman

underlordone
10-16-2007, 07:56 PM
just let me hit 50 with a many shot hmm

nbhs275
10-16-2007, 08:12 PM
just let me hit 50 with a many shot hmm

with the new raid bow?

2d12+3 weapon+20str+6 bard songs= 31-53, 111-177 critting on 18-20? thats a bow!

so a manyshot could do 91-159 with the none crits, 333-531 with 3 crits.

When the cap hits 16, that would be critting 17-20, with four, FOUR!!! arrow manyshots.

Manyshot bursts would be devestating.

Fallout
10-16-2007, 10:58 PM
with the new raid bow?

2d12+3 weapon+20str+6 bard songs= 31-53, 111-177 critting on 18-20? thats a bow!

so a manyshot could do 91-159 with the none crits, 333-531 with 3 crits.

When the cap hits 16, that would be critting 17-20, with four, FOUR!!! arrow manyshots.

Manyshot bursts would be devestating.

Yeah I think a barb ranger would be interesting to play. A L1 ranger / L13 barb?

Strakeln
10-16-2007, 11:10 PM
PLUG!

sign of a true salesmanbusted :D

nbhs275
10-17-2007, 08:45 AM
Yeah I think a barb ranger would be interesting to play. A L1 ranger / L13 barb?

Ranger 2/barbarian 12, with barb 14 at lvl 16

That way he could fit in manyshot and the 2 improved crits.

Shade
10-17-2007, 08:58 AM
odd question, but why were your hps only at 510 when you had a 48 con? You should be getting almost 200 just from the con bonus.

I ask because I am about to start a babarian and I have him slated for 500 hps with gear, but with out rageing.

Something wrong with your character then. Only way you can do that is if you take the toughness feat - which is a huge mistake on a barbarian. 510, or 560 with reaver charge is fine. Also I only wear a +4 con item atm is the reason my cons not 50.

nbhs275
10-17-2007, 09:08 AM
Something wrong with your character then. Only way you can do that is if you take the toughness feat - which is a huge mistake on a barbarian. 510, or 560 with reaver charge is fine. Also I only wear a +4 con item atm is the reason my cons not 50.

unless you go human TWF, where the toughness will help to compensate for a lower con score. Though taking the enhancments all the way through is not necessary

Blind_Skwerl
10-17-2007, 05:05 PM
with the new raid bow?

2d12+3 weapon+20str+6 bard songs= 31-53, 111-177 critting on 18-20? thats a bow!

so a manyshot could do 91-159 with the none crits, 333-531 with 3 crits.

When the cap hits 16, that would be critting 17-20, with four, FOUR!!! arrow manyshots.

Manyshot bursts would be devestating.

What bow is this? I have not done hardly any of the new content because of my pc having major graphical lag issues in explorer areas. Damn this new 24" widescreen flat panel! :) Anywho, I loved doing ranged combat in pnp, Asherons Call, DAoC, Lineage II, etc.. It was my favorite style. I started this in DDO and quickly discovered that ranged combat pretty much sucks here. Great early on, decent mid levels, not worth spit end game. Could this bow bring ranged combat back for me? If so, I need a build. That 2/12 (later 2/14) sounds interesting. Is it feasable?

Fallout
10-17-2007, 06:28 PM
What bow is this?
Could this bow bring ranged combat back for me?

Its from the new abbot raid. Well barbarian strenghts is when they rage, more ST and crit range. You won't rage all the time. It doesn't have the crit range of the silver bow. Great bow, but I don't know if it will put range combat on the map gain. But that short period of time, raging and multi-shot, it'll be great fun :)

maddmatt70
10-17-2007, 07:13 PM
The 2ranger 12 barbarian concept while intriguing with the higher crit range and all is probably not going to make a huge difference. I have a 2 ranger 12 fighter right now with a 31 strength and greater weapon specialization and although I almost always outkill ranged specialists - I can not compete with a halfway decent melee. After reading codog's posts the best thing a ranged char can do to compete is perfect his mouse view/first person shooter skills/ and stay away from auto attack.

nbhs275
10-17-2007, 09:43 PM
The 2ranger 12 barbarian concept while intriguing with the higher crit range and all is probably not going to make a huge difference. I have a 2 ranger 12 fighter right now with a 31 strength and greater weapon specialization and although I almost always outkill ranged specialists - I can not compete with a halfway decent melee. After reading codog's posts the best thing a ranged char can do to compete is perfect his mouse view/first person shooter skills/ and stay away from auto attack.

Why are you so far behind? take improved crit slashing and use a greataxe or sos, and you'll be fine. Your melee wont be the best, but it wont be horrible.

maddmatt70
10-18-2007, 05:50 PM
I built my archer long ago (7-8 months or so) in part to just have a great dps ranged and see how close I could come to competing with melee. I only play him on a few select quests (dq2 and reaver raid are fun and I think the ghosts of perdition might be fun for him too). I am hanging onto him for that moment when they fix ranged combat or actually give us a sweet bow which might never occur but hey. I have a melee character, Norg, which I play all the time so I don't feel the need for another one unless they come out with new classes.

Devilgoat
10-19-2007, 09:22 AM
if using the bloodrage and constantly getting slowed to 50% attackspeed because of the fatigue.. does that mean it is better to have a warforged (and be immune to fatigue) over a dwarf?

Could be annoying if 5 times every battle you have to hit lesser restore.. or is there a clikie that makes u immune to fatigue for a while???

Shade
10-19-2007, 03:42 PM
Devil I already replied to that on the other thread you asked on, no need to post it on 2 more threads.

There no way to cure or prevent the slow from the scourge choker, not even being WF.
Trick is to keep getting hit so it never fades and you avoid the fatigue at least for the duration of that fight.

Ganak
10-29-2007, 05:09 PM
All the clerics see the 35 AC and cringe...

Aeneas
11-12-2007, 03:14 PM
why cringe? I walk around with 55 on my rogue and he still gets smacked about.

Shade
11-13-2007, 01:40 PM
All the clerics see the 35 AC and cringe...

Yea must be some dumb clerics then.

With that party - the reaver soon had every debuff in the game on him.. Resulting in him being barely able to hit 35AC, and when he did - not for much when I had 5 or 15 DR vs him.

Not to mention I actually have 39AC vs that oponent - or 48 when i put my shield on which was shortly after. Or 54 when I used my dodge boost. or 55 when i equiped my protection cloak.

And honestly - clerics with unlimited mana really don't mind allot if you get hit when you have 510 hitpoints so they don't have to heal you for like several minuits. If we instead got say Aeneas rogue with 55AC to tank, the clerics would have a bit harder time having to heal probably 3 times as often, if only for the magic damage.

And 99% of other high lvl elite quest, like Aeneas mention, 35AC works the same as 55. But 5, 10 or 15 DR makes a big difference, barbarians are excellent tanks.

maddmatt70
11-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Hey man i have not run with you in awhile. I have not seen you on that much - you taking a ciesta. We got a few of those in my guild. Other then some loot runs I am working on a new character - a warchanter bard melee, but it should have enough buffage and max songs to keep you going...

Shade
11-16-2007, 02:37 AM
.. Finally hit the maximum possible strength tonight as I got my +3 str tome.
31 Base
or highest possible buffed (except those alchemical potions which continue to prove exceedingly difficult to aquire):
53 (http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2530/53bi2.jpg)

Wizzly_Bear
11-16-2007, 04:51 AM
wow....just....wow

think ill have to try another tank. always done casters before now. i had one get up to about lvl 4, but my wiz was more interesting at the time.

Aeneas
11-16-2007, 09:18 AM
If we instead got say Aeneas rogue with 55AC to tank, the clerics would have a bit harder time having to heal probably 3 times as often, if only for the magic damage.

Well against him the rogue has 60 AC (62 shield blocking :p) (and 279hp's {350 or so when stormreaver buffed}, but only dr/3 and shield block dr/ 25) Also, the lightning he is always blasting about is easier to avoid with a 35 reflex save and improved evasion.

So Axer would have to swing at least twice to kill Moths - he's way tuff.

nbhs275
11-16-2007, 05:50 PM
Well against him the rogue has 60 AC (62 shield blocking :p) (and 279hp's {350 or so when stormreaver buffed}, but only dr/3 and shield block dr/ 25) Also, the lightning he is always blasting about is easier to avoid with a 35 reflex save and improved evasion.

So Axer would have to swing at least twice to kill Moths - he's way tuff.

I think more important for tanking the reaver is the Debuffs, and a djinn ring.

a lightning bolt that normally hits for 60, -30 from greater resist then -10 from the ring is not so bad.

as for 60 AC on a rogue? thats impressive, though it probably means you are doing nearly zero damage to the reaver, who will aggro onto anyone else who hits him. Unless you have a very impressive intimidate to go along with that AC. Overall, barbarians are good for caster weak groups, so that the Reaver himself only takes < 30 seconds to finish off after fly is obtained, while a good high AC intimitank i good for a cleric short group with a large amount of casters.

However shade, is 53 really the max?

18 base
+3 tome
+3 level
+6 item
10 Rage
+4 Madstone
+2 rage
+8 Bloodrage
+1 human
+1 Litany
____________
56, 60 if you gimped with 12/2 fighter human, and +3 pot. Though im sure that 53 is currently the highest proven number.

Shade
11-16-2007, 07:35 PM
However shade, is 53 really the max?


Yea, for dwarf. Human gets the +1.

The level 3 bloodrage +2 str/con doesn't stack with the on-hit madstone +2str/con. So -2 there.

nbhs275
11-16-2007, 08:44 PM
ah, thats weird man

nbhs275
11-17-2007, 08:17 AM
so the current max Strs are

Human Barbarian 14 : 54

Warforge Paladin 14 : 46

Human Fighter 14 : 46

Warforge CLR/Barb 13/1 : 50


Though none of them can maintain these numbers for as long as the barbarian.

Cold_Stele
01-13-2008, 04:42 PM
so the current max Strs are

Human Barbarian 14 : 54

Human Fighter 14 : 46

Just a minor note -

Ftr max Str is 7 lower than Barb (so would appear to be 47 in this case).

Whatever the race/equipment, Barbs get +10 Str from Rage + Rage Enhancements, Ftrs get +3 from Ftr's Str Enhancement, hence the -7.

Emili
01-15-2008, 05:12 AM
Just a minor note -

Ftr max Str is 7 lower than Barb (so would appear to be 47 in this case).

Whatever the race/equipment, Barbs get +10 Str from Rage + Rage Enhancements, Ftrs get +3 from Ftr's Str Enhancement, hence the -7.

aye, it is just 7 less... although a 47 yields the same as a 46 in terms of to-hit and damage mod.

cinoaz
01-22-2008, 12:02 AM
One thing that I will never seem to get is how to manage the combinations necessary for builds of this type. I have a lvl 14 Bbn, first one I ever did.

Looking at my STR and CON, when I rage I have a 34 STR and 30 CON, then I look at builds on this forum, and see STR and CONs in the 50s. I think to myself, damn I suck.

So I look at my build. Maybe I shouldn't take Axe Damage and BattleAxe Attack enhancement, maybe I shouldn't use Spell Resistance Feats, maybe I can get rid of Desert Lore for the Fire Resistance. Maybe I should upgrade my Power Rage II to Power Rage IV. Dump Bbn Speed Boost and Damage Boost.....

Then I look at 50 STR, and think to myself, with that number, does it really matter the type of weapon you have anymore? Geesh.

Then I think, well, is that really useful, i.e. sure you can get that number, but do you need to gimp your character to reach it? How long does that 50 plus STR last?

I understand this is an exercise in to see how high one could go, but if you can reach that level, shouldn't that change the way builds are done?

Hadrian
01-22-2008, 01:16 AM
You don't gimp your barb by maxing out strength. You gimp him by only having power rage 2, and taking fire lore enhancements :)

50+ strength is only possible for short durations with the scourge choker. It's not necessary to have this for a good barbarian build. The choker actually slows you down against most trash encounters, but it's great for difficult encounters with some downtime between them. It's excellent against raid bosses or other very tough opponents, in my opinion.

Without that item, your goal is about 44 strength. This is something you can do with no real drawback.

18 starting
3 levels
6 item
10 rage
1 tome
2 madstone
2 double madstone
2 rage potion/spell

This gives 44 strength.

A +3 str tome will bring you to 46.

Lavabeing
01-22-2008, 02:09 AM
You don't gimp your barb by maxing out strength. You gimp him by only having power rage 2, and taking fire lore enhancements :)

50+ strength is only possible for short durations with the scourge choker. It's not necessary to have this for a good barbarian build. The choker actually slows you down against most trash encounters, but it's great for difficult encounters with some downtime between them. It's excellent against raid bosses or other very tough opponents, in my opinion.

Without that item, your goal is about 44 strength. This is something you can do with no real drawback.

18 starting
3 levels
6 item
10 rage
1 tome
2 madstone
2 double madstone
2 rage potion/spell

This gives 44 strength.

A +3 str tome will bring you to 46.


So I see a ton of people breaking down stats like this. Is there anyone reliably testing to see which stat boosts stack? I could just as easily say that the highest possible strength in mod 6 is:

Barb 13/ Ranger 1/ Fighter 2

18 starting
4 levels
6 item
10 rage
4 tome
2 madstone
2 double madstone
2 rage potion/spell
8 bloodrage
3 alchemical
2 ram's might
1 LOTD bonus
1 fighter enhancement
1 human enhancement
4 tensor's transformation
6 divine power
4 bulls strength
6 rocs strength

--------------
=84? Hypothetically with everything stacking (Absurd, but some people don't know better)

The main problems is... no one seems to know which bonuses stack and which don't. Can anyone point to a semi-accurate resource describing how each bonus stacks?

Ghoste
01-22-2008, 04:03 AM
Well for beginners, tensor's, divine power, str item, bull's str and roc's str are all enchantment bonuses and none of them stack. So just sticking with a +6 as the max of all of those would put you at 64.

Never heard of a +4 tome yet in ddo, they have verified that 2 points from bloodrage dont stack with something else in there, not sure what the LOTD bonus you mentioned is, and ram's might will be available to rangers, not barbs. A multi class barb could get it, but would lose points from rage, so...after mod 6 comes, I get 58 with your numbers.

Borror0
01-22-2008, 04:20 AM
The main problems is... no one seems to know which bonuses stack and which don't. Can anyone point to a semi-accurate resource describing how each bonus stacks?

First of all, you're going with Ram's Might... which is ML 4 Ranger to cast. So, if you go 2 fighter you loose on Power Rage IV. How about:

Barb 12/ Ranger 4

22 Base
6 Enhancement (Roc's Strength, Divine Power or +6 Strength item)
10 Barbarian's Rage (Untyped)
3 Tome (Inherent)
2 Madstone (Untyped)
2 Double Madstone (Untyped)
2 Rage potion/spell/clicky (Morale)
8 Bloodrage (Untyped)
2 Ram's Might (Size)
1 LotD bonus (Profane)
1 Human Enhancement (Untyped)
--------------
59 Strength

Then, you can add +3 Alchemical from those potions, not very reliable though. So, a Max of 63 could be reached, given +4 tomes could be found in Module 6. But I think there is a part of Blood Rage that doesn't that stack with osmehting in there. Logicly, Rage spell?

I know for a fact that those are not stacking with a +6 Strength item:

Tensor's Transformation
Divine Power
Bull's Strength
Roc's Strength

Shade
01-22-2008, 10:35 AM
The main problems is... no one seems to know which bonuses stack and which don't. Can anyone point to a semi-accurate resource describing how each bonus stacks?

No one?

heh if you read the thread you'd see I actually have the max str and posted a screenshot and breakdown in this thread.. If thats not enough for ya I don't know what is.

Some people are posting some confusing misleading theoritical breakdowns.. But for mine - there all tested ingame and items i actually use on my character, and he's certainly not gimped by doing it.

re: Borror - part of blood rage not stacking.

Yea thats the on-hit level 3 bloodrage +2 str/+2 con. It doesn't stack with the on-hit effect of the madstone boots. There basicly the same in terms of the str boost they grant, +2 untyped for getting hit, so that can explain it somewhat. Tho it could be considered a bug since untyped bonuses should all stack.

Mad_Bombardier
01-22-2008, 12:09 PM
re: Borror - part of blood rage not stacking.

Yea thats the on-hit level 3 bloodrage +2 str/+2 con. It doesn't stack with the on-hit effect of the madstone boots. There basicly the same in terms of the str boost they grant, +2 untyped for getting hit, so that can explain it somewhat. Tho it could be considered a bug since untyped bonuses should all stack.Shade, I just thought of this. Are you sure levels 1 and 2 of Bloodrage stack with everything? It seems very strange that only 3rd level of Bloodrage would not stack with on-hit Madstone Rage. Could it be something as simple as Bloodrage is a Morale bonus (though not listed that way in item description) and not stacking with the +2 from Rage spell?

Borror0
01-22-2008, 03:10 PM
Could it be something as simple as Bloodrage is a Morale bonus (though not listed that way in item description) and not stacking with the +2 from Rage spell?

That was my first assumption, but I guess Shade went step by step to test it, right?

Strykersz
01-22-2008, 03:24 PM
Well for beginners, tensor's, divine power, str item, bull's str and roc's str are all enchantment bonuses and none of them stack. So just sticking with a +6 as the max of all of those would put you at 64.

Never heard of a +4 tome yet in ddo, they have verified that 2 points from bloodrage dont stack with something else in there, not sure what the LOTD bonus you mentioned is, and ram's might will be available to rangers, not barbs. A multi class barb could get it, but would lose points from rage, so...after mod 6 comes, I get 58 with your numbers.

LOTD is from http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/LitanyoftheDead.jpg a profane bonus of +1 to all stats.

Hadrian
01-22-2008, 03:59 PM
=84? Hypothetically with everything stacking (Absurd, but some people don't know better)

The main problems is... no one seems to know which bonuses stack and which don't. Can anyone point to a semi-accurate resource describing how each bonus stacks?

Sure, you could come out of nowhere and be a complete jerk to me for no reason whatsoever if you'd like. Many people have and use the combination of stacking effects that I listed above. It's not like it's a big secret.

Also, I think someone asked about the rage spell and the scourge choker - these do not stack, so in total effect you get only 6 str/con from the choker. Yes, I have verified this and so has a friend of mine that I play with frequently.

Lavabeing
01-22-2008, 07:33 PM
Sure, you could come out of nowhere and be a complete jerk to me for no reason whatsoever if you'd like. Many people have and use the combination of stacking effects that I listed above. It's not like it's a big secret.

Also, I think someone asked about the rage spell and the scourge choker - these do not stack, so in total effect you get only 6 str/con from the choker. Yes, I have verified this and so has a friend of mine that I play with frequently.

Sorry, man. The attack wasn't directed at you. Besides shade's initial post and picture, I just haven't seen much in-game media supporting various comments about various things stacking. I'm not doubting people, I would just like to point out that posts like shade's help further the conversation, and people should continue to do so.

cinoaz
01-22-2008, 11:06 PM
You don't gimp your barb by maxing out strength. You gimp him by only having power rage 2, and taking fire lore enhancements :)


Now that's funny right there LOL....

Great one, I'm dumping Fire Lore as I type this.... :-)

Shade
01-23-2008, 12:42 AM
Shade, I just thought of this. Are you sure levels 1 and 2 of Bloodrage stack with everything? It seems very strange that only 3rd level of Bloodrage would not stack with on-hit Madstone Rage. Could it be something as simple as Bloodrage is a Morale bonus (though not listed that way in item description) and not stacking with the +2 from Rage spell?

Hmm it's hard to test and be 100% sure due to the very short timers of blood rage so my str basicly continuously fluctuates as the battle rages on.. I do know that no matter how many times I try getting every possible rage I still end up at 52 str (dropped power rage IV since I don't need an odd modifier)
But pretty sure i had at least lvl1/2 blood rage and drank a rage potion gaining +2 str a few times.

I think its the on-hit madstone because thats often the last or 2nd last buff i get as im going for it.

I'll try to check it out again to be sure.

Mad_Bombardier
01-23-2008, 08:49 AM
Simple check. Try with Madstone Boots and Scourge Choker, but no rage potion. Then try Rage Potion and Scourge Choker, no boots. :)

Hadrian
01-23-2008, 02:59 PM
Sorry, man. The attack wasn't directed at you. Besides shade's initial post and picture, I just haven't seen much in-game media supporting various comments about various things stacking. I'm not doubting people, I would just like to point out that posts like shade's help further the conversation, and people should continue to do so.

Well, you quoted me and then went on to make out my post to be ridiculous, so forgive me if I assumed that was directed at me. None of the things that I listed were the same type of bonus. I feel its safe to say that the list that I gave is something that is very, very common and doesn't need to be proven to be possible.

18 starting
3 levels
6 item
10 rage
1 tome
2 madstone
2 double madstone
2 rage potion/spell

What on there would you assume doesn't stack? You have base attributes, rage potions, the rage ability and strength items that you can use by level 5 if you want to check for yourself that they all stack. I think +1 str tomes are common enough that we know that they stack with all of this.

The only item that might not be easy for you to verify is the madstone boots, but we've heard this discussed plenty of times on these boards already. If they didn't stack, we'd be hearing complaints instead of seeing posts with people displaying their strength with them on. As you noted, someone actually did post a screen shot to show the strength numbers, so the proof you wanted was already there to head off your complaint.

Hadrian
01-23-2008, 03:01 PM
Simple check. Try with Madstone Boots and Scourge Choker, but no rage potion. Then try Rage Potion and Scourge Choker, no boots. :)

My barbarian doesn't have madstone boots yet, but my fighter does. I have noticed that the choker doesn't stack with the rage spell (as given by potions or arcane casters).

Verlock
01-23-2008, 06:41 PM
If 2 of the bloodrage doesn't stack, then the current highest possible str is 56, right? (just wanna double check my calculations):

barb12/ftr2
18 base
3 levels
3 tome
6 item
6 greater rage
4 power rage
4 madstone rage (x2)
2 rage
6 bloodstone rage
3 alchemical bonus
1 ftr str 1
56 str (53 sans silly alchemical bonus, 52 for straight barb with no silly alchemical bonus)


It would be Dumb but with lv 16 if you did human with 4 lvs of rgr you would get 2 more str just a thought but then again who would do that

Shade
01-25-2008, 12:54 PM
Simple check. Try with Madstone Boots and Scourge Choker, but no rage potion. Then try Rage Potion and Scourge Choker, no boots. :)

Yep tested it again and will confirm what i said before: The only part that doesn't stack is the on-ht madstone with the on-hit level3 bloodrage.

Rage potion definetely stacks with everything. Was at 50 str with all rages, drank potion = 52 strength.

Borror0
01-25-2008, 01:01 PM
Yep tested it again and will confirm what i said before: The only part that doesn't stack is the on-ht madstone with the on-hit level3 bloodrage.

Rage potion definetely stacks with everything. Was at 50 str with all rages, drank potion = 52 strength.

Cool, I'll add that to the Blood Rage (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Blood_Rage) page once the wiki is editable again. :)

By the way... if any barbarian has any comment/correction to add to:


Blood Rage (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Blood_Rage)
Madstone Rage (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Madstone_Rage)
Madstone Reaction (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/Madstone_Reaction)

It'd be greatly appreciated. I take corrections by PM or on this thread.. as the wiki is uneditable for a few more days...

Thanks in advance. :)

Shade
02-22-2008, 05:58 PM
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9875/screenshot01561kq4.jpg

Mad_Bombardier
02-22-2008, 08:08 PM
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9875/screenshot01561kq4.jpgAwesome on the STR score.

LOL, did you edit that screenie at all, or do you actually have enough buffs that they got cut off!? :D I've never seen that happen before.

Hadrian
02-22-2008, 08:31 PM
Yep tested it again and will confirm what i said before: The only part that doesn't stack is the on-ht madstone with the on-hit level3 bloodrage.

Rage potion definetely stacks with everything. Was at 50 str with all rages, drank potion = 52 strength.

That's strange. As I said earlier, my barbarian doesn't even have the madstone boots and it's definately not stacking with rage potions. I use the barbarian rage ability and I get a level of the choker's rage, and if I drink a rage potion I get no bonus from it. Since I don't have the madstone boots, I can't possibly be mistaken about which one isn't stacking with the choker.

paul1devries
02-22-2008, 08:50 PM
Just a quick question - the red numbers over th eboss show 70 + 1330? and it is axers screen but the comabt text shows him hitting for 70 - what is the 1330??

Hadrian
02-22-2008, 10:20 PM
I am pretty sure that's 70+13 and then a glancing blow of 30.

Shade
02-22-2008, 11:44 PM
Awesome on the STR score.
LOL, did you edit that screenie at all, or do you actually have enough buffs that they got cut off!? :D I've never seen that happen before.
hehehe.. Thats actaully my usual set of buffs, i'm often confused if I don't have so many buffs that they get cut off like that lol. I'm pretty notorious for asking for allot of buffs =) My guild calls it the axer package. Tho they also purposely cast buffs on me I don't like lol.. Namely the xtra rage icons, can you count them all? lol.. Lets see how many I have there:
Real rage (can you guess which one it is? not sure I even remember)
Ironskin chant (really hate this thing cuz it does nothing for me but confuses me as it lasts almost the same as my rage and has the same icon)
Inspire Heroics (ugh lazy turbine, another pure rage icon copy)
Madstone rage x2 (well least they look a bit different)
Blood Rage x3
Rage spell
=9 rage icons lol

I am pretty sure that's 70+13 and then a glancing blow of 30.
Yep you can see a few things in that attack.
A) I rolled a 20 and confirmed the critical, but it was resisted (he has light fortification)
B) The previous hiit is actaully what he is refering too, 76+13 30 glancing blow, the current hit is 70+12 30 glancing blow +1 thorn guard
C) I hit that guy for over 100 pnts non crit =)