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Kronik
10-05-2007, 06:07 PM
Just read this and got a sick feeling in my stomach. Unfortunately this seems to be the buzz around the industry and eventually most MMO companies will eventually sell out for the almighty dollar:


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25369


For the record, I am totally against this idea, but the new trend in today's world is to make as much money as possible with little regard to the future consequences.

Notice the article title is already misleading " Legitimate 'gold farming' could be vital to MMO business - Turbine.

How can this be VITAL when these companies are making millions of dollars and the gaming industry is growing at such a rapid pace. I/m calling shenanigans here and hope Turbine can see how bad a rep Sony has for pulling these kind of unethical practices.

issiana
10-05-2007, 06:10 PM
hmmm sony out to mess with its players again maybe? didn't they learn anything from the swg mess they made?

Chelsa
10-05-2007, 06:21 PM
Like it or not every MMO company has to deal with the problem of gold farmers. Nobody has yet to even come close to solving the problem and the industry realizes that they can't control it. So, you either stick your head in ground and pretend it doesn't effect you or find a way to mitigate it. There really isn't any other solution. If it was that easy gold farming would not be a multi million dollar industry.

Kronik
10-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Like it or not every MMO company has to deal with the problem of gold farmers. Nobody has yet to even come close to solving the problem and the industry realizes that they can't control it. So, you either stick your head in ground and pretend it doesn't effect you or find a way to mitigate it. There really isn't any other solution. If it was that easy gold farming would not be a multi million dollar industry.

I see your point, but this will not solve the problem. Matter of fact, if it is legitimized, it will only make the problem worse. Its like saying "we cannot stop people from selling crack, so we are going to sell crack ourselves so we make the profit and not the drug dealers." It doesn't matter who farms, it is wrong and whoever is doing it is wrong, even if it is regulated and controlled by a large "trust worthy" company.

If farming is a problem, then you cannot solve it by making it more readily available. I don't think Turbine see this as a problem, but rather an opportunity...

cridus
10-05-2007, 06:38 PM
I'm on the fence with gold farming, I myself have never and would never buy/sell in game items for real cash. Does other people doing it affect my play. No it doesn't affect me whatsoever, but I see a lot of people up in arms about others who pay real cash for the gear. If someone wants to shell out cash to buy in game stuff so they can be "uber", go for it, I got better thing to waste my money on. And I can get the same item if I want it, I just have to spend the other resource "time" to do so, and I'll feel better about getting it.

Only thing that bugs me are games out there that make it so you need to buy the good gear. I have come across some games where you can get good gear, but if you paid you get access to gear that can only be purchased with real cash. Making me have to spend real cash to make my virtual character on par is right out the window.

If Turbine wants to see about legalizing the purchase of gold and items, go for it, they are a business and a business needs to make money. Just don't forget the ones who don't want to spend the extra cash.

Snike
10-05-2007, 06:42 PM
They have to find some way to make money after all they have left is life subscriptions...

Kronik
10-05-2007, 06:49 PM
I'm on the fence with gold farming, I myself have never and would never buy/sell in game items for real cash. Does other people doing it affect my play. No it doesn't affect me whatsoever, but I see a lot of people up in arms about others who pay real cash for the gear. If someone wants to shell out cash to buy in game stuff so they can be "uber", go for it, I got better thing to waste my money on. And I can get the same item if I want it, I just have to spend the other resource "time" to do so, and I'll feel better about getting it.

Only thing that bugs me are games out there that make it so you need to buy the good gear. I have come across some games where you can get good gear, but if you paid you get access to gear that can only be purchased with real cash. Making me have to spend real cash to make my virtual character on par is right out the window.

If Turbine wants to see about legalizing the purchase of gold and items, go for it, they are a business and a business needs to make money. Just don't forget the ones who don't want to spend the extra cash.

I see your point too, as you do not see farming as a problem. Your clearly stating that farming is ok.

My point is that if you want to make a game that has no real accomplishments or sense of achievement, the game will die. If I put in more effort in a game I expect better rewards. This is an important aspect of every game ever invented. If someone can just buy their wins, then it really takes the challenge and fun out of any game. Then there is the discrimination aspect of rich vs. poor. I know this shouldn't matter, but to make a game where rich players benefit over player who can only afford to play is unethical to me. I know the rich/poor thing is a flimsy argument, but I still belive that games should be played on a level playing field.

If someone wants to buy from a farmer now, I feel they are unethical for doing it and while it cannot be stopped, it should not be justified.

Krazed
10-05-2007, 06:59 PM
I actually like the Station Exchange, Sony's attempt at legalized cash-for-gear system. I like it for the reason that, to have access to it in-game, you have to play on a particular server.

I don't buy in-game currency or items for cash, but I know it's a large market right now. However, by isolating the people who are interested in that on a few select servers, and by implementing zero tolerance attitudes towards other forms of gold farming, you eliminate the problem of having to deal with 'paid' characters competing against legitimate characters.

I'm all for game companies making money where they think they can. If it provides the funding for only one more GM a server, it's worth it to me. However, they need to provide people who don't want the service a way to isolate themselves from the ones that do. That means specific servers where 'exchanges' are legal, and an iron fist on servers where it's not.

Snike
10-05-2007, 06:59 PM
I feel they are unethical for doing it.

Just FYI, unethical maens something without a moral basis, like just exisiting or breathing. Had to read it a couple times before I understood what you ment. Wrong would be a better word. Ethical does not mean right or wrong, but something that deals with right and wrong. Being ethical doesn't make you good or bad, it just makes you one or the other. And that would depend on which side you view it from.

JelloMold
10-05-2007, 07:29 PM
/dons his Devil's Advocate hat

Several people have come on the boards here and decried the lack of development: bugs, insufficient content, infrequent level cap raises, no crafting/guild houses etc. If Turbine were to institute the "legitimate gold farming", wouldn't this provide them with a nice revenue source to further develop the game? As a second point, couldn't this make "illegitimate" farming less profitable, which would result in less email spam etc.?

/removes DA hat and runs for cover:eek:

Grond
10-05-2007, 09:44 PM
I see your point, but this will not solve the problem. Matter of fact, if it is legitimized, it will only make the problem worse. Its like saying "we cannot stop people from selling crack, so we are going to sell crack ourselves so we make the profit and not the drug dealers." It doesn't matter who farms, it is wrong and whoever is doing it is wrong, even if it is regulated and controlled by a large "trust worthy" company.

If farming is a problem, then you cannot solve it by making it more readily available. I don't think Turbine see this as a problem, but rather an opportunity...

Worked with prohibition... revoking it drove the people out of the illegal booze business.

Drider
10-05-2007, 09:56 PM
It doesn't help that there are people making huge money off of games like Second Life. That, mixed with the inability to really stamp out the whole goldfarmer thing, it's only a logical step totake some steps and try to gain the money for themselves.


BTW, if I remember right, the station exchange doesn't work on all servers, there are some put aside for it. There are servers where the service is unavailable, so that you can have a pure game experience.

jaitee
10-05-2007, 10:19 PM
many MMOs already do this, they sell in game stuff for rl $, that $ is towards the game

its for lazy people, and people who dont want to farm

but its already in some games/MMOs, i even remember games putting out special items that people could only buy

i dont see a problem with them putting it in

either buy plat/gear from turbine

or buy them from 3rd parties, which doesnt help turbine at all

or farm your own gear/plat

that is the way i see it, from my view, turbine needs the extra cash

Invalid_86
10-05-2007, 10:33 PM
Oh you could kill off the gold farmers very easily- just have all magical gear bind to the character that gets it. That would also put a stake into the heart of twinking and slow down the Monty Haulism. The uproar would be terrible indeed but it would be closer to the actual D&D spirit.

"You find three magical swords in the chest. What are you guys going to do with them?"

"I'm going to take mine to town and put it into the auction house! The completely safe, never robbed despite being full of treasure that rival's a dragon hoard, always pays right on time no matter where you pick up the money auction house!"

"I'm gonna send mine to a new guy that I barely know through the completely error free mail system!!"

"I already have six magic swords so I am going to sell mine for 10X it's actual value and go to the local magic store (yes a magic store!) and buy a stack of potions that would have taken him years to make!!!"

"Bummer I didn't get a sword. Luckily I found a nice Asian guy who does nothing but run around caves killing things and taking their gold who is willing to send me a small fortune....."


Yeeeaaaahhhhh.......

ccheath776
10-05-2007, 10:54 PM
Just read this and got a sick feeling in my stomach. Unfortunately this seems to be the buzz around the industry and eventually most MMO companies will eventually sell out for the almighty dollar:


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25369


For the record, I am totally against this idea, but the new trend in today's world is to make as much money as possible with little regard to the future consequences.

Notice the article title is already misleading " Legitimate 'gold farming' could be vital to MMO business - Turbine.

How can this be VITAL when these companies are making millions of dollars and the gaming industry is growing at such a rapid pace. I/m calling shenanigans here and hope Turbine can see how bad a rep Sony has for pulling these kind of unethical practices.

the problem with this system is the game becomes less a game and more just who has the most money and can buy the best stuff.
I mean, if you got joe kid millionaire who says instead of playing through all content I can just bye the uber loot. What kind of game is that?

I dont have a problem with rich people at all. Its just introducing this aspect is a little hard to swallow.

GuitarHero
10-05-2007, 11:07 PM
as long as they keep it off the server i play on, they can do whatever they want. someone wants to buy a delver suit, instead of have that accomplished feeling of earning it, fine! just don't let them stand next to me and my buddy, both of us paying for ours in blood and hard work, and try to claim to be our equal.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 11:49 PM
Already mentioned in this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=123454) thread (which was moved from General to Off-Topic, so I assume this thread was as well - seems that's they're little way of burying the issue or something). It's as on-topic to General DDO discussion as anything else in that damn section.

penumbra
10-06-2007, 01:22 AM
most free MMO's offer some kind of item store. just look at games like FlyFF or rappelz and so many others. it is no different, except that they don't get revenue from subscriptions like pay to play MMO's.

MrWizard
10-06-2007, 06:05 AM
hmmm... paying for things in game...

good or bad...some thoughts....

1- having the ability to buy plat would take out the junk mails, spams, etc as it would put those palt farmers out of the market. I would say good thing.
-I have lost things in the mail, bank disappears, and accidental sells worth a fortune as have many...now for afew bucks I can fill up the money tank...
So, if you want to pay, you do not have to be broke. I am for it if it stops the whole junk mail/tell thing...and gets rid of the lame players hired to amass it.


2- Paying to get a higher level toon...I am for it. I do not like starting a new toon and having to redo ALL those quests again. I would rather pay to get favored/leveled to a couple levels below the cap and be done with it. Sure it was fun the first few times, but really..same thing over and over. If you unlock 1750, you should be able to buy a level. I am for this.


3- a character pooled bank- I am tired of how long and hard it is to find out which toon has what and mail (sometimes get lost) items and money all over the place. Things get lost and it is a waste of time. I should be able to pay a few bucks to start a user account bank where I can store money and items...and ALL of my toons can access it. The time it saves alone is worth the investment (and the aggravation would be gone too).


Cool optional I would like to see......

1- ability to upload, and have approved (for a fee of course) a graphic for my guild or toons...that will show up on my shields, helms, and anything like a guild flag.

Solstyse
10-06-2007, 01:15 PM
Like someone else stated. As long as they keep it off of the regular servers I am fine. It it becomes a game wide thing then I am sorry, but I will be done.

If they all have their own little Game Genie server where they can pat each other on the back for all the loot and levels they bought, then that is fine more money to put in a game I enjoy.

I disagree with it but thats just me. I enjoy earning what I have. I usualy do things the hard way cause too me that is also usualy the fun way. I am not one of those people who bought a strategy guide for a game, then used it every step of the way till I beat the game then braged about how I did it.

You can kick throw all you want, but try to avoid my flash kick, sonic boom combo.



On a side note City of Heros now lets you pay to have your character transfered and renamed at 10 dollars per service. How do we as a community feel about something like this maybe being instituted in DDO?


old school game refrences FTW.

penumbra
10-06-2007, 10:00 PM
On a side note City of Heros now lets you pay to have your character transfered and renamed at 10 dollars per service. How do we as a community feel about something like this maybe being instituted in DDO?


.

as far as i know, you can already do this in DDO.

In_Like_Flynn
10-07-2007, 11:44 PM
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25369Sounds like a good idea.

Kronik
10-08-2007, 02:02 PM
Just FYI, unethical maens something without a moral basis, like just exisiting or breathing. Had to read it a couple times before I understood what you ment. Wrong would be a better word. Ethical does not mean right or wrong, but something that deals with right and wrong. Being ethical doesn't make you good or bad, it just makes you one or the other. And that would depend on which side you view it from.

Thanks for the English lesson Snike, but I know what the two words mean and decided to go with unethical for a reason.

I do not think it is wrong. It is totally legal and can be done. I think it is unethical as a business practice to provide a game where people with more money can buy their way to the top. I think that it is a form of cheating. it is only my opinion though, but I think any game where people with the most money can buy a win is unethical. If not for PVP, then it wouldn't matter, but because of PVP other players with less money are at a disadvantage.