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View Full Version : Don't know how I feel about this...



DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:36 PM
1. Read (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25369)
2. Discuss

Scarsgaard
10-05-2007, 01:38 PM
I will never pay real cash for a game item...

Cupcake
10-05-2007, 01:40 PM
Interesting article.

Not sure how I feel about it either.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:40 PM
Would a Turbine-sponsored Aucrion Site be a welcome idea? A place where they monitor our RL sales/transactions of our plat/items, etc?

On one hand I see it helping the casual gamer that doesn't have time to grind the way some of us do for all the goods. They can invest a little cash and acquire some of the more rare items. Avoiding the severe price hike of the third-party vendors that we have now ($80/million plat? are you joking?)

On the other hand, there's the argument that this will lead to people that hardly play the game, and don't have the skills honed, but are equipped with the same things that we had to invest tons of time in to acquire. Sort of the way you felt when you worked your ass off to get the dragon armor, only to see people buying 25 scales on their credit cards a week later, and everyone now looking the same.

I'll have to put more thought into it, and hopefully I will get some inspiration from your thoughts as well.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:42 PM
I will never pay real cash for a game item...


Yes Scar, and many other people feel the same way. But you cannot deny the success of IGE, MMOBay, and many other sites that offer the service. There are also MANY people out there that would, and do pay real cash for a game item.

Rameses
10-05-2007, 01:42 PM
I really believe that this is a natural progression "next evolution" for gaming. Why would a manufacturer of the game want to make a profit of item and plat selling.

It's a niche market and there will always be a niche customer for that market.

I am, Rameses!

DoctorWhofan
10-05-2007, 01:43 PM
WOW.

If I understand it correctly, they are going to be their own farmer. THat means they are undercutting the illegal farmers out there.


But still...To buy a Vorpal, or a disruption or sscales...doesn't it take away from playing the game?

THe worst part is, DDO wasn't even mentioned.

Allasar
10-05-2007, 01:44 PM
No interest in paying for in game items, but the viability of the gold farming industry shows that there are enough others who are to support them. Also, look at something like Second Life, where you can buy ingame currency with real money in order to do stuff like buy property. It's another potential revenue stream for the game companies - they'd be silly to ignore it completely.

Chances are, it's going to happen over time, but hopefully implemented in a way that doesn't screw it up for the average player (inflate the prices of items purchased out of game or something). I hope it doesn't happen with DDO.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:45 PM
THe worst part is, DDO wasn't even mentioned.

Aren't you used to that by now? :(

Darkwolf
10-05-2007, 01:46 PM
Excuse me..

I'm going to go cry now. :(

oronisi
10-05-2007, 01:48 PM
Would a Turbine-sponsored Aucrion Site be a welcome idea? A place where they monitor our RL sales/transactions of our plat/items, etc?

On one hand I see it helping the casual gamer that doesn't have time to grind the way some of us do for all the goods. They can invest a little cash and acquire some of the more rare items. Avoiding the severe price hike of the third-party vendors that we have now ($80/million plat? are you joking?)

On the other hand, there's the argument that this will lead to people that hardly play the game, and don't have the skills honed, but are equipped with the same things that we had to invest tons of time in to acquire. Sort of the way you felt when you worked your ass off to get the dragon armor, only to see people buying 25 scales on their credit cards a week later, and everyone now looking the same.

I'll have to put more thought into it, and hopefully I will get some inspiration from your thoughts as well.

A turbine-ran AH that allows real life money to be exchanged for already looted items that someone pulled or has, where Turbine takes a cut of the profits, sure. That's not far from what we currently have, and what anyone that wants to pump real life money into a game can already do.

What I don't want to see is items/credits being fabricated by turbine for real life cash. That will flood the market and create an unfair advantage that is currently not obtainable.

Velorn
10-05-2007, 01:48 PM
I will never pay real cash for a game item...

QFT...I have never and never will pay real cash for items....that destroys the enjoyment for me. I would have no need for plat...except to buy pots. If I can buy all that I need with real cash...why should I even bother to open a chest anymore..for I need nothing. Part of the enjoyment for me is looting that chest in the hope of getting something a little better than I already have on or use. IMHO

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:49 PM
I just read more about Sony Exchange (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22642), and that seems to allow both the players and the company to make money. SOE gets a cut, but the players sell their characters/items/money to other people in an auction environment.

Reading the article it seems some players made tens of thousands of dollars using the service. Would we want to make money for playing DDO? Would it hurt the game severely?

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:50 PM
A turbine-ran AH that allows real life money to be exchanged for already looted items that someone pulled or has, where Turbine takes a cut of the profits, sure. That's not far from what we currently have, and what anyone that wants to pump real life money into a game can already do.

What I don't want to see is items/credits being fabricated by turbine for real life cash. That will flood the market and create an unfair advantage that is currently not obtainable.


/signed

Ziggy
10-05-2007, 01:50 PM
THe worst part is, DDO wasn't even mentioned.
Well according to this (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27834).


Referring to his own title, Lord of the Rings Online, Steefel added,

Laith
10-05-2007, 01:51 PM
as they've mentioned before though, there is a possible conflict of interests when the content makers offer items to sell to users.

Any adjustments in content or item effects can be seen as a move to adjust the value of purchased items or to guide users into purchasing different items.

*shrug* If i had to buy items to enjoy DDO, i wouldn't be here.

llevenbaxx
10-05-2007, 01:52 PM
I could see them making it a whole lot harder to make plat if they ever implimented something like this. Sounds like shady dealings to me.

Though if they determine enough ppl are doing it anyway, why not have the cash flowing into their pockets.

Bad business to ppl like me who will never pay real money for E-plat.

Even you poor compared to the DDO mint Davey... or are you the mint.:D

Starts to try organizing an angry mob to find Steefel.:)

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 01:53 PM
as they've mentioned before though, there is a possible conflict of interests when the content makers offer items to sell to users.

Any adjustments in content or item effects can be seen as a move to adjust the value of purchased items or to guide users into purchasing different items.

Ok, we've established that. So focus more on a Turbine-controlled service that allows player-to-player transactions.

Beergut
10-05-2007, 01:53 PM
DDO is not set up for this. It would probably turn off alot of current players and, with the lack of promotion going on to bring new players in, would ultimatly hurt the game overall.

I believe games certainly can be set up to allow the purchase of items and/or gold with real money and be very successful. Certainly more successful financially than DDO is (big assumprion here as I don't check their books).

I feel game balance is more equally maintained in a closed financial system - meaning you can not legally buy plat or items. Competition is most often, though not always, decided by who puts the most time in, has the most skill, and makes the best decisions - as is the case in life. I'm not ignorant and sure it happens - maybe even often - but I still enjoy the game anyway without participating in the illegal stuff.

I look at it like this - Alot of the "Adventure" in an Adventure game is removed when you can simply invest $1,000 in real life dollars to equip your character. If I can take $1,000 cash and invest $600 in a "power leveling" service and $400 in buying plat and equiptment I may end up with a well equipped high level toon but where was the "Adventure" in that. And who am I really fooling when I join a group and can't play my part efficiently due to the lack of real experience, not xp points, but real in game experience that playing would have taught me.

I'm a bit of a purist in many ways and I'm sure there are opinions out there that differ from mine - and that's a good thing. Just chipping in my two coppers. This would be a bad thing for DDO in my opinion.

Scarsgaard
10-05-2007, 01:59 PM
Yes Scar, and many other people feel the same way. But you cannot deny the success of IGE, MMOBay, and many other sites that offer the service. There are also MANY people out there that would, and do pay real cash for a game item.

I have friends that play WoW and they make money...

...and good for them.

But the reality of this game is that it is escapism. Buying items equates to me as cheating. It destroys the joy in actually finding something for yourself... and the idea of sullying my joy with r/l cash... just burns my craw.

Yes. without a doubt, these mmos will turn to running their own plat farm auction houses... and when the day that my game does this, is the day I cancel my subscription and join a new game that has higher moral fibre.

Val'lochar_Del'Armgo
10-05-2007, 02:00 PM
On the other hand, there's the argument that this will lead to people that hardly play the game, and don't have the skills honed, but are equipped with the same things that we had to invest tons of time in to acquire. Sort of the way you felt when you worked your ass off to get the dragon armor, only to see people buying 25 scales on their credit cards a week later, and everyone now looking the same.


This is a pretty good point...

Overall I agree it's lame. Down with the farmers. The economy's messed up already. We all already pay 15 bucks a month for the game, as well as what we paid to buy it when it came out. And some of us with multiple accounts. Could put a lot of gas in my Harley for what they wanna charge for a +6 cha cloak. Stupid.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 02:02 PM
Yes. without a doubt, these mmos will turn to running their own plat farm auction houses... and when the day that my game does this, is the day I cancel my subscription and join a new game that has higher moral fibre.

Why would you cancel? I don't understand that point.
People are buying things NOW, but they are sending their money to people in China to do so.
What this service would do is to take the money out of the mouth's of the Chinese, and put it into the players' mouths.
You'd have the same situation as you do now, some people sell things, some people buy things, the difference would be where the real-life money goes.

Hafeal
10-05-2007, 02:03 PM
A turbine-ran AH that allows real life money to be exchanged for already looted items that someone pulled or has, where Turbine takes a cut of the profits, sure. That's not far from what we currently have, and what anyone that wants to pump real life money into a game can already do..


I agree.

Take it one step further - they (MMORPGs) monitor the third parties earning money from the real life exchaange and decide, "Hey, thay are selling our stuff, we have the tools, let's drive 'em out becuase their is money to be made there."

Regardless of game-play issues, if there is money to be made doing it, they will. And they will do it knowing that they may lose some players - but the gamble will be gaining more becuase it will be "easier" for casual players to side-step the long time commitment to obtain certain treasures. Casual players are jackpot for companies.

For example, as a casual player, I have already resigned myself to the fact that I will never see dragon armor unless someone gives me the scales. :( But with the intro of money to get them, people will do it. Although I have not, I know people who have their dragon scale armor and they did not "earn" it. For them, they wanted it and it was a part of the game they did not have time to complete themselves.

The expectation in a capitalist society is - if I have enough money I should be able to buy it. And that is the world players in this game live in.

Lithic
10-05-2007, 02:07 PM
What I don't understand is why this wasn't implemented years ago. It just makes sense from a buisness standpoint.

That being said, it is NOT something I would recommend they implement past the release date as it would definately annoy their playerbase.

Oreg
10-05-2007, 02:11 PM
It's why I left EQ2. Not that it affected me personally but it was a philosophical divergence from my concept of what they should be doing with the "illegal" gold/item selling that existed at the time.

Beergut
10-05-2007, 02:16 PM
Why would you cancel? I don't understand that point.
People are buying things NOW, but they are sending their money to people in China to do so.
What this service would do is to take the money out of the mouth's of the Chinese, and put it into the players' mouths.
You'd have the same situation as you do now, some people sell things, some people buy things, the difference would be where the real-life money goes.

I don't have any issue if the game is set up to allow for this, and I'm certain that it would be very lucrative for players to turn their skills and hard earned merchandise into cash - it's just not for me.

There's just something about having to amend my tax return because I forgot to claim the $35.00 I got for selling a +2 Vorpal Longsword of pure good that doesn't appeal to me.

I personally play for "escapist" reasons, if I define "escapist" as adventuring on a two dimensional 19 inch screen with people I care alot about but wouldn't recognize if I bumped into them on the street. For me it's just fun.

I guess I just wouldn't ever want to have to utter the words "Vorpal Longsword" and "1099-R tax form" in the same sentence.

Whoops - I guess I just did.

arminius
10-05-2007, 02:42 PM
While I don't approve of cash for plat, absolutely nothing makes me madder than the fact that both this article and the Life After Warcraft article reference the Pride and Joy, LOTRO, and not the Black Sheep of DDO.

Come on. "There's plenty of life after Warcraft?" And it never occurs to them to mention the one MMO that is as opposite Warcraft as one can get. Lame.

_

Missing_Minds
10-05-2007, 02:54 PM
if turbine does allow in game spending and player earning of real life currency, it brings up 2 major issues.

Is virtual property under the same laws and jurisdiction as real property once real currency is involved? The case of Lindindollars and land selling in the lindin world is currently the case that will decide this.

If the seller is getting a cut of real money and lives in the U.S. those residents will be required to declare this on income tax forms such that the government is getting their cut of the vorpal as well. This is true of ebay.com. now granted your casual person a sword here or there a month probably won't attract the I.R.S. (but you never know with the new audits they are doing), but some 24/7 gamer is going to have to declare.

Once these two issues are solved... *shrugs* the MMO business is to make money, not make gamers happy.

MysticTheurge
10-05-2007, 03:01 PM
In terms of having to "earn" your items, there's part of me that wonders what the difference between buying something for RL money and in game money is.

You could, in theory, get Dragonscale armor without ever going on that quest. You just farm enough quests, save up enough plat and buy them on the auction house. So in some sense, buying those scales with dollars instead of plats doesn't really seem to make that much of a difference.

Of course, on a visceral level, something feels wrong in rewarding those people who are willing/able to spend RL money on in game benefits and it sets up tiers: those who can afford to be twinked out and those who can't.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 03:11 PM
Why the hell would this thread get moved? Look at the idiotic things that exist in General, and explain why this was moved to off-topic? This is clearly ON-TOPIC for the general state of this game. Some things around here are simply amazing sometimes.

Mad_Bombardier
10-05-2007, 03:15 PM
Why the hell would this thread get moved? Look at the idiotic things that exist in General, and explain why this was moved to off-topic? This is clearly ON-TOPIC for the general state of this game. Some things around here are simply amazing sometimes.*Probably* because the article doesn't have to do with DDO. I do appreciate what people think on the topic and the state of the game/economy.

DaveyCrockett
10-05-2007, 03:20 PM
*Probably* because the article doesn't have to do with DDO. I do appreciate what people think on the topic and the state of the game/economy.

Ok, then why would threads about the CEO of turbine being replaced, and 'is Turbine hiring' still exist in General, and not be moved to Off-Topic?

This thread was ALL about DDO, and wanting to get player feedback on the thoughts of having this type of system implemented in DDO, and it was moved to off-topic, as if it had NOTHING to do with the game at all.

I hate these forums.

Mad_Bombardier
10-05-2007, 03:22 PM
You're preachin' to the choir, man.

ErgonomicCat
10-05-2007, 03:25 PM
Sony did it the way it should be done, imho - they have servers where you can buy stuff, and servers where you can't.

Those of us who don't want to play on servers where you can buy stuff and cheapen the game don't go there, those of us who want to be able to spend money (which they are grinding for in real life) to make their game play more fun do.

I personally don't like the idea of buying stuff, but I don't consider it the evilness many do.

MysticTheurge
10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Why the hell would this thread get moved? Look at the idiotic things that exist in General, and explain why this was moved to off-topic? This is clearly ON-TOPIC for the general state of this game. Some things around here are simply amazing sometimes.

I find it's not usually worth getting worked up over. (But in general, on this matter, I agree with you.)

Mad_Bombardier
10-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Sony did it the way it should be done, imho - they have servers where you can buy stuff, and servers where you can't.

Those of us who don't want to play on servers where you can buy stuff and cheapen the game don't go there, those of us who want to be able to spend money (which they are grinding for in real life) to make their game play more fun do.

I personally don't like the idea of buying stuff, but I don't consider it the evilness many do.I was typing something to that effect earlier. Then I clicked the back button, lost it, and didn't want to retype.
I agree that there'd have to be different servers if Turbine brought this to their games.

JelloMold
10-05-2007, 03:33 PM
I will never pay real cash for a game item...

Buying fake items with real money allows real life losers to feel like winners in their fake little world. C'mon, everybody is a winner somewhere!

Cap_Man
10-05-2007, 03:34 PM
The day Turbine starts making profits from plat farming is the day I cancel my subscription. Why? Well I would never pay RL money for in game items and if Turbine went this route then I would suspect they would try and manipulate players into spending more money on this (profit is addictive). I would always be suspicious of anything they did after that.

I never got into those card games (ie: Magic the Gathering, etc) like many of my friends did because I recognized it as a bottomless money pit. I would view DDO in the same light if Turbine started charging RL money for in game items.

Galapas
10-05-2007, 03:36 PM
I am reminded of the lottery. Lotteries didn't exist in the US until fairly recently. The mob ran numbers, and made a lot of money, and often ran a crooked game. The states, failing to shut these rackets down by law enforcement, cut into the action by running their own games - the various lotteries, pick fours etcetera.

So far, other methods have not eliminated platfarmers. If the MMO creators can do it by supplanting them or coopting them, and possibly making some more money while doing it, that could be good. The additional profits might be applied to more content, or holding prices down.

I think this would work best by being implemented at game launch. Set up one or a few servers to service real cash for in game transactions and others without them. Platfarmers and those who patronize them will play on one set of servers, the rest of us play on the others. At that point, the only potential problems would be insufficient player base on one or the other type of server, or a disparity of achievement on one type of server, resulting in content geared for one group rather than the other.

Hafeal
10-05-2007, 03:50 PM
Well said Mystic:

In terms of having to "earn" your items, there's part of me that wonders what the difference between buying something for RL money and in game money is.

You could, in theory, get Dragonscale armor without ever going on that quest. You just farm enough quests, save up enough plat and buy them on the auction house. So in some sense, buying those scales with dollars instead of plats doesn't really seem to make that much of a difference.

Of course, on a visceral level, something feels wrong in rewarding those people who are willing/able to spend RL money on in game benefits and it sets up tiers: those who can afford to be twinked out and those who can't.

My only concern Cap is that it is a slippery slope to an MMO saying "ok, trade yer cash for ****" AND then making certain items or equipment ONLY available if you pay extra. I would find that very problematic but a very real potential.:(


The day Turbine starts making profits from plat farming is the day I cancel my subscription. Why? Well I would never pay RL money for in game items and if Turbine went this route then I would suspect they would try and manipulate players into spending more money on this (profit is addictive). I would always be suspicious of anything they did after that.

I never got into those card games (ie: Magic the Gathering, etc) like many of my friends did because I recognized it as a bottomless money pit. I would view DDO in the same light if Turbine started charging RL money for in game items.

Osharan_Tregarth
10-05-2007, 04:44 PM
If they want to start a Turbine monitored service similar to the Station Exchange that Sony has set up, more power to them. As long as it's limited to a specific server, and they put controls in place to stop people from changing to that server, I don't really care. I just don't want to have to deal with the extra drama that would result from people arguing over who gets what, and so on...



However, I'm not as fond of the idea that they put in any type of thing where they sell items DIRECTLY. I don't want to have to worry about whether or not the devs are nerfing the raid loot, or chest loot, or whatever... So that they can make money directly by selling these items to the players.

I was playing eq2 when they started the station exchange, and gave everyone a free move if they wanted it. I moved a couple of the alts I'd started on a server I wasn't playing on anymore over to that server and sold em for thirty or so bucks each.

If I would have wanted to, I could have moved my main over, and sold him for between 600-800 dollars(Or more). I'm pretty sure the going prices have dropped down quite a bit though. The main point here though, is that the exchange server had a very minimal impact on the other servers once it was in place.

Falco_Easts
10-08-2007, 12:08 AM
If this were to happen to DDO, I would cancel my account.
I'm a casual gamer and someone said in an earlier post that this wold be good for casual gamers. BS. Most casual gamers are casual for a reason. They have better things to do then play and farm 24/7. I would take a stab and say if they don't feel strongly enough about the game to do that I doubt they would feel strongly enough about it to spend real $ on virtual $.
Hmmm... buy that vorpal or take my GF to the movies. Know which one I would choose.
This would be a lame way of Turbine to make money off people and I wouldn't want to be part of it.

jaitee
10-08-2007, 09:57 AM
i think its a great idea

i dont buy plat but...

i see nothing wrong with it, it wouldnt hurt you any

alot of MMOs do this already and i dont see how it would be game breaking

instead of 3rd parties selling plat/gear to players, turbine would be selling it instead, for the extra cash to maybe? to develop more

in the article, it says they want to help everyone play the way they wish to, or play the way that makes the game fun for them, so if they want to buy plat from turbine to enjoy the game, it dont see much difference

yes, it would destroy the economy but they just want players to enjoy the game, and people enjoy it in many ways

Zenako
10-08-2007, 10:20 AM
The best suggestion so far that I have heard is to let a new server be set up as the "open market server" where $$ will equal stuff. Give anyone who wants to move characters there a discounted move. (If you are moving to a cash server, you have already indicated a willingness to spend extra cash on the game, so no need for a free move.) In addition try to clamp down more on the existing servers. Some fairly straight forward account monitoring tools should be able to detect suspcious plat transactions. Things like items selling on the AH for 100,000 times what they are worth for example. First time send the seller a warning. Kinda like the first speeding warning will keep you law abiding for some time afterward, many players would suddenly avoid farmers if they really thought that Turbine could identify them and might lock down their account.

jaitee
10-08-2007, 10:29 AM
it would end up like risia, no one would be on it, and will be a dead server

people want to buy plat so they can enjoy the game, not be singled out

im keeping a open mind

Mizyrlou
10-12-2007, 12:40 PM
While I don't have an issue with paying for a particular extra (I did plunk down for the basic Guardian membership over on AdventureQuest way back when, which did include 10,000 gold, no need to queue up and access to special items), I really don't know how it'd work out in this sort of a setting since I can easily see how it'd divide things between the haves and have nots, more so than what currently exists between those who have the time to game hours on end vs those who don't.

Would it balance things out? Possible, but the impact of folks feeling they need to buy things just to keep even and getting discouraged enough to quit would be more damaging.

Speaking for myself, I'd be upset over any specialty items that were only available through cash purchase even though I could easily afford, though in the case of my boyfriend, he'd probably consider something with levelling simply because he's not able to quest as much as I do and there is a sizeable gap between our characters levels so we can't run as much together like we used to.

orun
10-22-2007, 10:44 PM
I have friends that play WoW and they make money...

...and good for them.

But the reality of this game is that it is escapism. Buying items equates to me as cheating. It destroys the joy in actually finding something for yourself... and the idea of sullying my joy with r/l cash... just burns my craw.

Yes. without a doubt, these mmos will turn to running their own plat farm auction houses... and when the day that my game does this, is the day I cancel my subscription and join a new game that has higher moral fibre.

/signed

Grimdiegn
10-24-2007, 06:49 AM
I don't see a problem with this as long as they keep it separated from people that don't want it. Like make a server where its possible to do this, and everyone on it knows from the start thats its available and sanctioned.

If people want to play this way, let them. It's there dime, I mean time.

I personally would not be interested in it. /shrug

Mckim_Brian
11-08-2007, 08:58 PM
I think it could be a neat business model if it allowed them to make the game subscription free.