PDA

View Full Version : Dwarf TWF Pure Barb heavy picks build



trucido
10-01-2007, 02:47 PM
Hi I am a newbie but I have read allot on the forums about different builds and my brother is creating a mellee type to party with my cleric so I came up with this build the idea is maximum damage because he will always have a good healer with him. I appreciate any feedback on this build keep in mind we dont have tomes and please ignore the enhancements or lack there of I didnt select them past level 1 the goal of course is critical rage 2


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Tim The Barbarian
Level 14 Chaotic Neutral Dwarf Male
(14 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 216
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 7
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 19
Dexterity 17 17
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 15.5
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 7 22
Listen 3 17
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Jump I
Enhancement: Barbarian Listen I

Level 2 (Barbarian)

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons

Level 4 (Barbarian)

Level 5 (Barbarian)

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Barbarian)

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Barbarian)

Level 14 (Barbarian)

Blind_Skwerl
10-01-2007, 03:50 PM
If your goal is to have maximum damage, you need to have 18 strength to start. This doesn't sit too well with a dual-wield pure barbarian. TWF is is free with a ranger splash without the dex requirement. Not sure if you can still get the crit rage II that way though.

trucido
10-01-2007, 04:13 PM
Nope cant still get crit rage two and i got no tomes so ill just have to eat the 1 dmg and 1ab. all in all i dont think thats a big deal the build has plenty of dmg and the 1ab gets made up for with weapon focus.

boldarblood
10-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Looking Good.

skraus1
10-01-2007, 06:20 PM
A bit of advice, if you don't have room for toughness, which I don't see in your build, go drow. Their higher dex will allow you to buff str more. You lose some con, but with a good healer, it won't be such an issue. The difference between 200 and 214 hp is not that noticable. If you decide to stick with dwarf, then get toughness, as you can get 300+hp that way.

Also, neutral good is probably the most damage friendly alignment, as you can use the pure good weapons, which is one of the best and most common item qualities.

Blind_Skwerl
10-01-2007, 08:37 PM
As neutral good you can use anarchic and axiomatic weapons too. Lots of damage options.

sigtrent
10-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Looks decent, but definately Neutral Good as the optimal alignment these days.

axiomatic/anarchic burst picks are pretty fun to use.

trucido
10-01-2007, 09:55 PM
cool ok neutral good it is

UPDATED


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Tim The Barbarian
Level 14 Neutral Good Dwarf Male
(14 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 216
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 7
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 19
Dexterity 17 17
Constitution 15 15
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 15.5
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -2
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 3
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 7 22
Listen 3 17
Move Silently 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Jump I
Enhancement: Barbarian Listen I

Level 2 (Barbarian)

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons

Level 4 (Barbarian)

Level 5 (Barbarian)

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Barbarian)

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Barbarian)

Level 14 (Barbarian)

Mad_Bombardier
10-02-2007, 09:35 AM
A bit of advice, if you don't have room for toughness, which I don't see in your build, go drow. Their higher dex will allow you to buff str more. You lose some con, but with a good healer, it won't be such an issue. The difference between 200 and 214 hp is not that noticable. If you decide to stick with dwarf, then get toughness, as you can get 300+hp that way.There's always room for Toughness at level 15 (assuming there is no new TWF feat to get).

Scalion
10-02-2007, 09:58 AM
If there's any possible way of getting a +1 dex tome I would suggest doing that and moving the extra point of dex up to strength.

I would guess that at level 15 Superior Two weapon fighting will become available, but it will require a bases dex of 19 anda base attack bonus of 15 to get (not to mention greater two weapon fighting).

I personaly like to pick up enough ranks in tumble that you can actually tumble. I find it useful for avoiding some magical effects and for moving around in waist deep water. (you can tumble at regular speed inside solid fog and some other spells that would slow you down otherwise). I would suggest you just drop 2 ranks in and lose those 2 on the jump skill.


Another option that hasn't been suggested is to go with a halfling. This is not a common choice for a barb because you lose 2 strength, but you do not lose anything on your + to hit because halflings get +1 to hit to offset the lower strength. This would enable you to get 16 str, 17 dex, and 14 con I believe. (not sure of the math on the 28 point builds)

My own barbarian is Human and it would probably look a little gimp as a twf at low levels because you'd sacrifice some stats for the 16 minimum dex (with a +1 tome to get 17) but you could use the human racial enhancements to pick up the strength you lost at character creation. Also as a human you get an extra feat and an extra skill point. This would give you space for UMD (coupled with human skill boosts and you can get into any gear you like with little to no help from outside buffs) in addition to enough feats to possibly offset the lower stat.

So I guess what I'm ultimately suggesting is to definately put 2 ranks into tumble, and consider building your character as a halfling for the dex or a human for the feat and umd.

Mad_Bombardier
10-02-2007, 11:24 AM
Another option that hasn't been suggested is to go with a halfling. This is not a common choice for a barb because you lose 2 strength, but you do not lose anything on your + to hit because halflings get +1 to hit to offset the lower strength. This would enable you to get 16 str, 17 dex, and 14 con I believe. (not sure of the math on the 28 point builds)I'd probably do 32pt Elf over Drow or Halfling. Drow stat bonuses are plain wasted on a Barb. And I know Halfers regain the to-hit lost from STR. But, as a Barb, losing any damage does not appeal to me. Besides, when Halfers rage, it sounds like someone stepped on a chipmunk! :p

Scalion
10-02-2007, 11:28 AM
I'd probably do 32pt Elf over Drow or Halfling. Drow stat bonuses are plain wasted on a Barb. And I know Halfers regain the to-hit lost from STR. But, as a Barb, losing any damage does not appeal to me. Besides, when Halfers rage, it sounds like someone stepped on a chipmunk! :p

I'm against both elf and drow for barbs due to the constitution hit. You may say the extra HP make up for the lower con, but the whole point of being a barb is having good hp.

Mad_Bombardier
10-02-2007, 11:31 AM
I'm against both elf and drow for barbs due to the constitution hit. You may say the extra HP make up for the lower con, but the whole point of being a barb is having good hp.Actually, the whole point of being a Barb is Rage. And less CON means less rage time. That I will give you. :)

Blazer
10-02-2007, 11:42 AM
No Power Attack?

tihocan
10-02-2007, 11:57 AM
I'd say it'll work, but later you'll probably wish you had 32 pt build and a +1 dex tome to start with. It's the kind of build that can really benefit from such a boost. Which of course does not mean you can't have fun without :)

Scalion
10-02-2007, 12:36 PM
No Power Attack?

I have to agree....you need power attack or there's no point in the build. Having power attack and critting vs not having power attack and critting on a x4 multiplier is 20 damage more in favor of power attack. Not to mention the barb enhancements to further increase the damage of power attack.

I would suggest you take power attack over weapon focus and then get items that give + to confirm critical hits, plus perhaps not take all the enhancements for improved power attack.

I really think this build needs 18 strength too. You're already losing +to hit by dual wielding so the more +to hit you can get the better off you'll be.

trucido
10-02-2007, 12:50 PM
Well if your so concerned about tohit then think about the extra -5 with this build... If I cant hit them I cant crit them at all can I?

also whats the big deal if i lose 1ab ? I already said we are newbies we dont have tomes or 32pt builds. This won't be the ultime uber toon just as close as I can get with a regular 28pt build with no tomes.

Please guys I need criticism I can use to make the build better not things like get 18 str when I cant or go drow... when I can't.

Scalion
10-02-2007, 12:59 PM
Well if your so concerned about tohit then think about the extra -5 with this build... If I cant hit them I cant crit them at all can I?

also whats the big deal if i lose 1ab ? I already said we are newbies we dont have tomes or 32pt builds. This won't be the ultime uber toon just as close as I can get with a regular 28pt build with no tomes.

Please guys I need criticism I can use to make the build better not things like get 18 str when I cant or go drow... when I can't.

To be honest, I made a cleric specifically for grinding to 1750 and then made the two weaopn fighter I really wanted. In that time I got my hands on a +1 dex tome so it worked out just right for me.

If you don't have that kind of time to invest before making the character then I still think power attack is the way to go.

Yes, you get -5 to hit, but because of the improved crit range a barb has you will roll in crit range a lot and you can get additional gear to boost the crit confirmation really high. If your main goal isn't maximum damage from crits then why bother with this build at all.

If you don't know what I mean by crit confirmation lemme know and I'll explain how it works.



I just took another look at things and I have to suggest you consider halfling as your race of choice.

Possible starting stats as a halfling Keep in mind halflings get an additional +1 to hit and +1 to AC as small race. That makes their +to hit as good as another race with 2 more strength.

16 str 17 dex 12 con
or
15 str 17 dex 14 con +1 point
or
14 str 17 dex 16 con (same +to hit as your build above but 1 more con)

Since you're looking at picks and not axes this might work out for you. You'd have to see what other enhancements and racial benefits have you leaning towards dwarf.

I think 12 con might be an acceptable sacrifice for having the 28 point rather than the 32 point build. You won't have the coin to rely on potions as much as a veteran player.

trucido
10-02-2007, 01:55 PM
ok this is the halfling version minus the enhancements and skills basically jump listen and balance are the skills.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Tim version2 the barbarian
Level 14 Neutral Good Halfling Male
(14 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 8
Will: 4

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 16 19
Dexterity 17 17
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 5 5
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 1 1
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 3 5
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 7 10
Listen 3 5
Move Silently 3 5
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot -1 -1
Swim 3 4
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 2 (Barbarian)

Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 4 (Barbarian)

Level 5 (Barbarian)

Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting

Level 7 (Barbarian)

Level 8 (Barbarian)

Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons

Level 10 (Barbarian)

Level 11 (Barbarian)

Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Barbarian)

Level 14 (Barbarian)

Scalion
10-02-2007, 02:19 PM
I personally like that build better....If you're only getting 12 con on your barb you could also take a look at elfs, but personally I think the halfling thing is fun anyway. (elf would be like 17 str, 17 dex, 12 con +1 point)

I think seeker items go up to +10 to confirm criticals or something like that...plus I believe that if you go for seeker on your weapons you only need one of them to be seeker and that will also apply to your other weapon. With those two things in mind I think your damage will not suffer by choosing power attack over piercing focus. Plus power attack on barbs has enhancements you can choose to take or not to take based on how high you need your +to hit to be. (further increases the damage and further sacrifices + to hit)


I would definately get a second opinion on the advice I'm about to give.


The one piece of advice I would still like to offer is about your skill selection. Balance is definately an important skill, but I believe the initial check on whether you fall is not a balance check, but rather a str, dex, or reflex check and then balance is only checked for when you get back up and the DC is normally not that high. With medium armor on and no shield your armor check penalty won't be too bad so you won't really have problems with balance.

Since you already have higher dex potential than most barbs you might be able to take UMD ranks instead of balance ranks. I'm not the expert on this so please don't just blindly follow my advice, but you can get +7 or so to total UMD modifier even with 8 charisma if you max ranks. Let me break down the UMD thing so you can see how it can help you.

+7 ranks
+3 +4 charisma item
+3 golden cartouche from delera's tomb
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 bard song
+2 Luck bonus (from items, or cleric's recitation spell)

20 total UMD = you can equip gear with an alignment restriction other than your own. You would need both a cleric and a bard to help to get these numbers so these are items you would not be able to swap in and out until you get some better gear to buff yourself (there's a +5 umd item, a +2 luck bonus item, and +6 charisma items), but there are a few items that you could definately benefit from by having a decent UMD.

trucido
10-02-2007, 02:23 PM
interesting, definitely something to consider

Jaywade
10-02-2007, 02:57 PM
you are going to see a lot these 2weapon fighting barbs pop up....you need to go dwarf why??? toughness enhancemnents con enchancements (means you throw more into str when you roll him) dwarven Tactics (look into stunning blow) and you will be able to crit on 17 and then there's that Deathnip that will be the sword of shadows for this build..... I would look to build it up to a 18/2 and at 15 and 16 I would take toughness twice and then you can get dwarven toughness and barb toughness enhancements (another 148 hp by 16th lvl not including con bonuses) you would also get fighter str 1 which could always help... good luck

Scalion
10-02-2007, 03:16 PM
you are going to see a lot these 2weapon fighting barbs pop up....you need to go dwarf why??? toughness enhancemnents con enchancements (means you throw more into str when you roll him) dwarven Tactics (look into stunning blow) and you will be able to crit on 17 and then there's that Deathnip that will be the sword of shadows for this build..... I would look to build it up to a 18/2 and at 15 and 16 I would take toughness twice and then you can get dwarven toughness and barb toughness enhancements (another 148 hp by 16th lvl not including con bonuses) you would also get fighter str 1 which could always help... good luck

If you look at the requirements to be successful in two weapon fighting, there's no room for toughness or stunning blow. This is something to look at if you're planning ahead to level 15-16 but currently I think you're pretty much limited to the 3 two weapon fighting feats, power attack, and improved cirtical. If this is the case the dwarven toughness and tactics enchancements are useless.

Jaywade
10-02-2007, 03:38 PM
If you look at the requirements to be successful in two weapon fighting, there's no room for toughness or stunning blow. This is something to look at if you're planning ahead to level 15-16 but currently I think you're pretty much limited to the 3 two weapon fighting feats, power attack, and improved cirtical. If this is the case the dwarven toughness and tactics enchancements are useless.

don't think I was clear..... I would take tougness as fighter lvl's at 15 and 16 to build to a 18/2 barb/fighter I would also look at taking stunning blow somewhere along the way as well...if I'm not mistaken I think Jellybean's build calls for stunningblow....I do think you will see lots of these pop up....w/ deathnip and a light brusting pick for the off hand this could be a nasty dps manchine

Scalion
10-02-2007, 03:53 PM
don't think I was clear..... I would take tougness as fighter lvl's at 15 and 16 to build to a 18/2 barb/fighter I would also look at taking stunning blow somewhere along the way as well...if I'm not mistaken I think Jellybean's build calls for stunningblow....I do think you will see lots of these pop up....w/ deathnip and a light brusting pick for the off hand this could be a nasty dps manchine

But what if taking non barb levels gimps you on some barb enhancements later on. Is it not reasonable to say that barbarians might get a further enhancement to their crit range further down the road...maybe even level 20.

Not only that but superior two weapon fighting may be introduced and there goes yet another opportunity to take toughness and/or stunning blow.

Fighters cannot take toughness for their combat feat. What you suggest could definately be an effective level 16 character by spending the level 15 normal feat on toughness, then the combat feats for level 1 and 2 fighter on greater two weapon fighting and stunning blow.

Either way this is someone's first character, a 28 point build two weapon fighting barbarian. It's a tough build and I don't think you need to worry about level 16 on your first character. If a 32 point build was an option I would definately suggest dwarf, but since it's not I'd rather sacrifice a few HP in order to meet the Dex requirements.

trucido
10-03-2007, 12:05 AM
Just an update

He got the game today and we went with the halfling build and took umd instead of balance.

Together with my halfling dragonmarked cleric we make a pretty good team plenty of damage and plenty of healing.

I hooked him up with some pretty decent starter gear and two icy light weapons, was allot of fun watching him run around turning everything to ice and shattering it heh.

He is really enjoying it so we will probably stick with these guys all the way up to 14.

Thanks for all the advice.

Korvey
10-08-2007, 05:51 PM
Should be able to drop the DEX to 15, and use your favor tome to get it to 17 before you take GTWF (the only reason I see you needing the 17). That will free up a good amount of points to get STR and/or CON up a bit

DareDelvis
10-09-2007, 09:56 AM
I have my human barb twf to level 10 (enuff xp but not ap for crit rage).

I am having fun with him. Human gets the xtra feat (stunning blow) and skill point.

nbhs275
10-09-2007, 10:14 AM
Human 32 point is the best route for this type of barbarian.

It lets you pick up all the TWF feats, PA for great damage, Improved crit piercing, and toughness for solid HP.

Also, remember, rapiers are also great damage weapons(holy burst of pure good rapiers FTW!

Just to give an example:

+1 holy burst rapier of pure good (13-20/x2)

1d6+1 weapon +5 PA +15 str+3d6 =25-45, 62-102 crit

+1 anarchic burst heavy pick of pure good (17-20/x4)

1d6+1 weapon +5 PA +15 str+3d6 =25-45, 120-180 crit

MondoGrunday
10-09-2007, 10:39 AM
wouldn't it be better to take the umd feat later since he wont' have enough points early on to use it?

Fallout
10-09-2007, 09:39 PM
I built a human TWF barb for fun with heavy picks.

My thoughts.

Since max out ST, but still have to put alot into dex, con isn't as high as I wanted. So that equals shorter rages. If a barb doesn't rage, then it really negates the TWF aspect, especially if you use PA.

If you don't use rage, a TWF heavy pick fighter will be superior. Barb is only better when they rage, but lower con means shorter rages. And if you don't have human for extra feat, won't get all the TWF feats until later levels.

And also depends if they implement something above greater twf. I made one with the idea of using deathnips. But with tome drop rates of 1/21 (and counting) chests, it will take a long time.

Mastodon
11-02-2007, 07:01 PM
Why are you all worrying about his confirms so much? I assume he's making this build to dual wield Deathnips, so he shouldn't need to worry about confirming his criticals, considering they are Seeker +8.

I was thinking of making a build like this, but if I really wanted to, I could just get a +2 DEX tome on my barb I have now, make some feat exchanges, and I'd have 19 DEX, be able to dual wield and could go back to axe-wielding after more feat exchanges.

It's the strength of both builds in one, counting you have the dragonshards and plat to do it. ^_^

nbhs275
11-02-2007, 11:07 PM
this is not a newbie build. It requires finding about twice as many good weapons as a 2handed barbarian, and also is only going to shine when you A. have a 32 point build and open access to +1 tomes. But onto the build itself

Max str, con is optional, and go choatic good. You can still use axiomatic bursts, you only take a 5 hp hit when you do. Choatic allows you to use things like choas blades, which even without prof. can make soloing a no potion affair.

Overall, looks like a rather run of the mills pick+flick barbarian.

nbhs275
11-02-2007, 11:08 PM
Why are you all worrying about his confirms so much? I assume he's making this build to dual wield Deathnips, so he shouldn't need to worry about confirming his criticals, considering they are Seeker +8.

I was thinking of making a build like this, but if I really wanted to, I could just get a +2 DEX tome on my barb I have now, make some feat exchanges, and I'd have 19 DEX, be able to dual wield and could go back to axe-wielding after more feat exchanges.

It's the strength of both builds in one, counting you have the dragonshards and plat to do it. ^_^

And i just saw this. Deathnips are not the be all end all. if your a real barbarian they are only giving you a +2 seeker boost over your bloodstone, and the bonus crit range is hardly worth sacrificing 30-50 elemental damage on crits for.

Mastodon
11-04-2007, 12:29 PM
And i just saw this. Deathnips are not the be all end all. if your a real barbarian they are only giving you a +2 seeker boost over your bloodstone, and the bonus crit range is hardly worth sacrificing 30-50 elemental damage on crits for.


Have you run the numbers? Because that sounds more like your opinion than actuality. I could be wrong but I really think the extra crit range far outdamages bursting or elemental damage.

I'll run the numbers in my friends damage calculator and tell you the exact numbers.