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blakbyrd
09-28-2007, 07:37 AM
Ok, I dont recall reading this in the release notes on Mod5, but if it was included and I simply missed it, then I apologize.

Noticed last night that the caster AOE spells, such as cloudkill, firewall, etc no longer work through doors. It worked Wed but no longer since the update. Tried various spells and had another member testing it as well and none work anymore. Now I am not complaining as in some ways it was a cheap mechanic to some people, but it was a very common thing for people to do, so I am bringing it up in case others havent noticed yet.

We did notice that this only occurs when a gate is initially closed. If the gate is opened and then closed again, then the spells will work through them, but usually that defeats the whole purpose as the mobs are able to get through at that point. However, maybe it worked because the spells were already going and opening and closing the doors allowed it through to start working, as opposed to being a bug or something.

In short I simply don't know what the intended change and function is for this, but it has changed.

I do not want to go crying "stealth nerf", as I havent yet started digging deep to find mentions of this change by Turbine, and thus will not say it is such. However, as this is a well known and well used tactic in the game, purposefully making this change and not mentioning it is a little annoying to me. Granted I am not complaining if the change is how things should be or not...doesnt matter to me. It is however an alteration to a widely used machanic/tactic and thus any potential "conveniently forgetting" to mention it, doesn't really seem to likely to me.

MysticTheurge
09-28-2007, 07:50 AM
In short I simply don't know what the intended change and function is for this, but it has changed.

It's intended. See the note about chain lightning.

Having it be true for all spells is a nice surprise though.

blakbyrd
09-28-2007, 07:56 AM
It's intended. See the note about chain lightning.

Having it be true for all spells is a nice surprise though.

Ahh ok. I did see that one, but it was worded rather specifically to that spell, and thus did not assume Turbine's use of "Chain Lightning" is now the word used for "All AOE Spells". LOL.

Learn something new everyday. Still, thats a rather big oversight if you ask me, but if that is what Turbine assumes as us being told, well, what can I say.

Thanks for the clarification Mystic.

Allasar
09-28-2007, 07:59 AM
They had posted something about this as being intended quite a while ago (definitely post 4.1 or 4.2), but should be added to release notes. I suspect we'll be seeing a lot of people compensating for the loss of their cheese with a lot more whining :D

Aeneas
09-28-2007, 08:14 AM
It's hard to call it cheese in all situations. There some spots where you should clearly be able to cast through (wide gapped steel bar gates for instance). But for the most part, yes this is a great fix.

Dane_McArdy
09-28-2007, 08:37 AM
It's hard to call it cheese in all situations. There some spots where you should clearly be able to cast through (wide gapped steel bar gates for instance). But for the most part, yes this is a great fix.

Yeah, I wish you could do stuff through gates. I can understand why not, but still.

Aspenor
09-28-2007, 08:41 AM
It's intended. See the note about chain lightning.

Having it be true for all spells is a nice surprise though.

I remember it saying something about firewalls and such not working through doors on an earlier patch, but it never actually came about. I guess the devs finally got the code in.

/claps

Goodbye cheeseball cloudkill tactics.

Eladrin
09-28-2007, 08:43 AM
I remember it saying something about firewalls and such not working through doors on an earlier patch, but it never actually came about. I guess the devs finally got the code in.
Yes, it was originally release noted in 4.1, but wasn't fully working until now. Sorry about the patch note getting lost.

Aspenor
09-28-2007, 09:05 AM
Well good job then El, I've been looking forward to that change, big time.

moorewr
09-28-2007, 09:16 AM
Yes, it was originally release noted in 4.1, but wasn't fully working until now. Sorry about the patch note getting lost.

Does this mean Maze of Madness is fixed? Damn it! I mean, hurray!

:rolleyes:

Mercules
09-28-2007, 09:32 AM
Does this mean Maze of Madness is fixed? Damn it! I mean, hurray!

:rolleyes:

Open gate
Send teammate through to pull
Just before teammate returns cast Cloudkill
Close gate


Nope... still works. :)

MrCow
09-28-2007, 09:38 AM
I can imagine that if they didn't fix this then a couple quests (namely the Tomb of the Tormented) would be vastly easier. Cast a cloudkill, watch the things that eat your rats die in the vapors, and run the rat safely through the first two mazes.

Eladrin
09-28-2007, 09:38 AM
Well good job then El, I've been looking forward to that change, big time.
It was Codog's work, actually, thank/flame him... But the patch note was probably checked off as "Yep, we already told them about this in the 4.1 release notes", and I should have noticed that earlier.

Aspenor
09-28-2007, 09:43 AM
It was Codog's work, actually, thank/flame him... But the patch note was probably checked off as "Yep, we already told them about this in the 4.1 release notes", and I should have noticed that earlier.

Doesn't bother me a bit, I was prepared for it. I never cast through doors or gates. Thanks to Codog then, I knew Eladrin was a noob. :D :p

sigtrent
09-28-2007, 09:44 AM
It was Codog's work, actually, thank/flame him... But the patch note was probably checked off as "Yep, we already told them about this in the 4.1 release notes", and I should have noticed that earlier.

Hmmm, just for the record, I think its a good idea to put anything in the patch notes that is functionaly new in the patch whether it was in patch notes of past or not.

Nice fix though, go Codog go. Being the crafty players we are we shall still find sneaky ways to beat quests, but its good to have to find new sneaky ways from time to time. :cool:

Mad_Bombardier
09-28-2007, 09:45 AM
It was Codog's work, actually, thank/flame him... But the patch note was probably checked off as "Yep, we already told them about this in the 4.1 release notes", and I should have noticed that earlier.So, Codog. Doors, good! Gates/Bars, <grumble>. But, I recognize the difficulty in coding different types of doors. 1= AoE spell, yes. 0= AoE spell, no. :rolleyes:

I noticed in one quest recently that mobs opened closed doors just by approaching (a la the supermarket doors in Tomb of the Immortal Heart)! Couldn't more mobs open doors themselves to prevent standing in AoE spells? Or are you trying to prevent a repeat of Made to Order where people cast through a quest objective door and players walked to the end fight?

Arcanoid
09-28-2007, 09:47 AM
I understand and agree on the door limitation.... but why can't cloud kill find its way through a steel bar gate?

Aspenor
09-28-2007, 09:49 AM
Hmmm, just for the record, I think its a good idea to put anything in the patch notes that is functionaly new in the patch whether it was in patch notes of past or not.

Nice fix though, go Codog go. Being the crafty players we are we shall still find sneaky ways to beat quests, but its good to have to find new sneaky ways from time to time. :cool:

It was probably just checked off on a list from 4.1 and glossed over when Q reviewed the "new stuff" for 5.0, since Q had it marked as input for 4.1. Not really all that big a deal, IMO. It probably just never made it to Q that the 4.1 target was missed, and that it was slotted for 5.0 instead. That's tons of issues to track, and I don't expect updates on every little tiny part of a patch making it in or not.

Rafal
09-28-2007, 10:15 AM
I have one problem with it. I think in temple of Vol mobs were hitting us through the door but we could not hit them. This is just plain unfair. Fix it for all, not just for players.

Val'lochar_Del'Armgo
09-28-2007, 10:25 AM
I have one problem with it. I think in temple of Vol mobs were hitting us through the door but we could not hit them. This is just plain unfair. Fix it for all, not just for players.

I pretty much agree with that- they have enough advantage with limitless mana pool and whatnot already. They shouldn't be able to hit us thru the doors either.

Except if it's a bar gate. It makes logical and physical sense thet we or they should be able to get a spell thru something that appears you can physically stick a sword or a hand through.... no?

But I guess the coding thing is what it is. Maybe not easy to do.

Vordax
09-28-2007, 10:29 AM
I have one problem with it. I think in temple of Vol mobs were hitting us through the door but we could not hit them. This is just plain unfair. Fix it for all, not just for players.

Did you bug report it? In the 4.1 release notes it stated it was for the mobs too.

Vordax

lethal413
09-28-2007, 11:42 AM
thing that sucks most is the air elementals behind you in the reaver can hit you when you cant symbol of fear/dance/firewall or anything to them.
:(

muffinlad
09-28-2007, 11:44 AM
So, Codog. Doors, good! Gates/Bars, <grumble>. But, I recognize the difficulty in coding different types of doors. 1= AoE spell, yes. 0= AoE spell, no. :rolleyes:

I noticed in one quest recently that mobs opened closed doors just by approaching (a la the supermarket doors in Tomb of the Immortal Heart)! Couldn't more mobs open doors themselves to prevent standing in AoE spells? Or are you trying to prevent a repeat of Made to Order where people cast through a quest objective door and players walked to the end fight?


Agree here. There is no reason that Wall of Fire and CK should not work though GATES...doors and Forcebarriers? No.

muffingasser

Krell
09-28-2007, 11:49 AM
thing that sucks most is the air elementals behind you in the reaver can hit you when you cant symbol of fear/dance/firewall or anything to them.
:(

Yup, they were nailing us last night through the blue barrier with lightning.

Aribel
09-28-2007, 11:56 AM
Mobs last night in fleshmaker's laboratory were able to hit our group with ball lightning through a gate no problem, but cloudkill did not effect them despite the fact that they were standing in it. Issue does not appear to be fixed for mobs hitting players through gates.

Talcyndl
09-28-2007, 12:35 PM
I can imagine that if they didn't fix this then a couple quests (namely the Tomb of the Tormented) would be vastly easier. Cast a cloudkill, watch the things that eat your rats die in the vapors, and run the rat safely through the first two mazes.

Based on limited testing last night, CK on the "the things that eat your rats" does have an effect - it freezes the monsters so that the rat can kill them. But that may have just been a clitch unrelated to casting CK. More testing required.

You can however Bard buff the rats.

MrCow
09-28-2007, 12:52 PM
Based on limited testing last night, CK on the "the things that eat your rats" does have an effect - it freezes the monsters so that the rat can kill them. But that may have just been a clitch unrelated to casting CK. More testing required.

I just confirmed Cloudkill stopping the tormented maze critters from moving, sometimes not attacking.

Talcyndl
09-28-2007, 01:54 PM
I just confirmed Cloudkill stopping the tormented maze critters from moving, sometimes not attacking.

Just don't tell the developers. ;)

blakbyrd
09-28-2007, 02:21 PM
Yes, it was originally release noted in 4.1, but wasn't fully working until now. Sorry about the patch note getting lost.

Good enough, thanks Eladrin.

Although I am still curious as to why spells like CK cant work through those huge gaping iron bar doors. It's a gas and should easily pass through holes that are 2 foot wide and 10 feet tall...haha.

Anyways, I can understand the reasoning for not allowing it, but in a sense of reality it should work (or well it's a fantasy world, I know :P ).

Mad_Bombardier
09-28-2007, 02:23 PM
Yes, it was originally release noted in 4.1, but wasn't fully working until now. Sorry about the patch note getting lost.Apparently, STILL not working. See above reports of being hit with lightning through gates and barriers.

wizzy_catt
09-29-2007, 09:32 AM
havent tested it myself but it was doing some crazy suff. shoot though hard walls even from bottom floor. you try it. lobster pvp area best to test, go down stairs and hide there wait till some one stand on top of you and you shoot chianligntning straight up. if they got no resists or dont have enought hp hmm you know he dead!

AmsterdamHeavy
09-29-2007, 09:56 AM
Yes, it was originally release noted in 4.1, but wasn't fully working until now. Sorry about the patch note getting lost.

Finally.

Good.

Yay.