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View Full Version : Weapons of Sharpness vs. Vorpal weapons



Shaamis
09-28-2007, 06:53 AM
I'm sorry, I must say this.

I hope that development decides to rename the vorpal weapons we have now, to Weapons of Sharpness someday.

The way Vorpal weapons are being portrayed, are exactly how weapons of Sharpness are, in the PnP game.

I know I might be reaching back into previous editions of D&D, but it was a great concept then, and I think it could fit into DDO today.

Weapons of Sharpness were basically, minor vorpal weapons. They had a chance to dismember a random extremity (arm, leg, tentacle, head, etc.), and it had nowhere near the enhanced ability of head severing that a Vorpal weapon has.

Sharpness weapons could only have a chance to sever on a nat 20, and then it was random which got severed (1-in-5 chance for the head on a human, for example)

Vorpal weapons only needed a modified total of 20 (a +1 vorpal only needed a 19-20 on the die, a +2 needed 18-20, a +3 vorpal needed a 17-20, etc) and if the modified total was above 20, then their head was lopped off, no random roll.

I wish vorpals were instituted after weapons of Sharpness, because thats what vorpals are in this game. Not ther REAL Vorpal weapons they should be.

The Devs can rename all of the existing vorpals as Sharness weapons, and when they release vorpal weapons for real, have them be the weapons they should be, truly VORPAL.

Sincerely,

Knightrose
09-28-2007, 06:59 AM
I think Vorpal was always kind of overkill anyway. They should of saved Vorpal for raid item affects. Then coupled them intelligently. Like a Vorpal of Undead Bane or something. Or a bane of some other creature immune to critical damage.

Personally, I'd rather have it that way and then just have them throw in your Shaprness idea. Would bring the market down on such items a bit. But it's a bit late now. The dog has its bone, good luck wrestling it back.

Shaamis
09-28-2007, 07:21 AM
Technically, we already have weapons of sharpness, masquerading as vorpal weapons.

I do agree, that true vorpal weapons should be raid only bind-on aquire, and tightly controlled, because True Vorpal Weapons should be items of legend. aka: Excalibur

In DDO, vorpals are really just shiny ****-shoot loot.

Missing_Minds
09-28-2007, 08:43 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but excalabur in 2.0 pnp was only sharpness, not a vorpal, and I think it was only a +3 at that.

But vorpals are allowed to be all over the place, esp in the monty haul versions. this is house ruled 3.5, not pnp form of anything let alone 2.0

Sharpness never allowed the head to be chopped off either. Only a vorpal could do that.

I'm also not remembering your claim about a +1 vorpal lopping off heads on a 19-20. Perhapes this and head loppings were in the modified 2.x rules and not 2.0 rules.

Mercules
09-28-2007, 09:09 AM
I'm sorry, I must say this.

I hope that development decides to rename the vorpal weapons we have now, to Weapons of Sharpness someday.

The way Vorpal weapons are being portrayed, are exactly how weapons of Sharpness are, in the PnP game.

I know I might be reaching back into previous editions of D&D, but it was a great concept then, and I think it could fit into DDO today.

Weapons of Sharpness were basically, minor vorpal weapons. They had a chance to dismember a random extremity (arm, leg, tentacle, head, etc.), and it had nowhere near the enhanced ability of head severing that a Vorpal weapon has.

Sharpness weapons could only have a chance to sever on a nat 20, and then it was random which got severed (1-in-5 chance for the head on a human, for example)

Vorpal weapons only needed a modified total of 20 (a +1 vorpal only needed a 19-20 on the die, a +2 needed 18-20, a +3 vorpal needed a 17-20, etc) and if the modified total was above 20, then their head was lopped off, no random roll.

I wish vorpals were instituted after weapons of Sharpness, because thats what vorpals are in this game. Not ther REAL Vorpal weapons they should be.

The Devs can rename all of the existing vorpals as Sharness weapons, and when they release vorpal weapons for real, have them be the weapons they should be, truly VORPAL.

Sincerely,

We are playing an MMO version of D&D 3.5, not AD&D. Vorpals in 3.5 work as Turbine implemented them. Notice you don't have a THACO but BAB instead. Please don't ask for AD&D rules(which I don't believe you have correct in any case)when we already moved past them years ago.

Mad_Bombardier
09-28-2007, 09:39 AM
On a positive note, "Limb Chopper" *should* affect creatures unaffected by Vorpal (except for slimes). Let's hope they made Limb Chopper affect non-critable targets.

Chop off a Wight's head, his body keeps attacking. Chop off a Wight's leg, he hops around with slowed movement and attack rate.
Chop off a Golem's head, his body keeps attacking. Chop off a Golem's leg, he hops around with slowed movement and attack rate.

Ithrani
09-28-2007, 10:01 AM
On a positive note, Sharpness *should* affect creatures unaffected by Vorpal (except for slimes). Let's hope they made Sharpness affect non-critable targets.

Chop off a Wight's head, his body keeps attacking. Chop off a Wight's leg, he hops around with slowed movement and attack rate.
Chop off a Golem's head, his body keeps attacking. Chop off a Golem's leg, he hops around with slowed movement and attack rate.


I hope your joking. Sharpness is not even in 3.5 books.

Missing_Minds
09-28-2007, 10:19 AM
I hope your joking. Sharpness is not even in 3.5 books.

Well, DDO put it back in. It is now called 'Limb Chopper'.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Risia/Sever.jpg

so far only one weapon has it. Sever, a dwarven axe.

Mad_Bombardier
09-28-2007, 10:32 AM
That's the one, Missing Minds. Thanks!

But, now that I reread, I see that "Golems and Undead creatures other than vampires, are unaffected by the loss of their limbs." :mad: Well that makes the weapon entirely useless. I was hoping that it could affect non-vorpalable creatures (with a less than insta-kill). But, it's just a high level, named item with Vorpal-Lite. /sigh

Missing_Minds
09-28-2007, 10:56 AM
That's the one, Missing Minds. Thanks!

But, now that I reread, I see that "Golems and Undead creatures other than vampires, are unaffected by the loss of their limbs." :mad: Well that makes the weapon entirely useless. It's a high level, named item with Vorpal-Lite. /sigh

Yeah, kind of like how "bone breaking" does nothing on skeletons. Never understood that either.

Mercules
09-28-2007, 11:00 AM
Yeah, kind of like how "bone breaking" does nothing on skeletons. Never understood that either.

Well, it's not like their joints are held together with anything and they continue to stand, walk, fight just fine. Notice the gaps between bones.

Now, Bonebreaking is a name for a game effect that lowers Dex and can be placed on blunt weapons. Undead are unaffected by stat damage so the rules override what something is named.

Missing_Minds
09-28-2007, 12:06 PM
Well, it's not like their joints are held together with anything and they continue to stand, walk, fight just fine. Notice the gaps between bones.

Now, Bonebreaking is a name for a game effect that lowers Dex and can be placed on blunt weapons. Undead are unaffected by stat damage so the rules override what something is named.

You break a bone (say the arm) completely, the arm comes off. Doesn't mean it stops moving via the hand though. It doesn't stay connected (yes yes, I know. magical world.) That is why I have the issue with the name. I have no arguments about "stat damage" rules at all. Just the name bothers me.

I mean they use maladroit for the -1 dex per hit.

maladroit \mal-uh-DROYT\, adjective:
Lacking adroitness; clumsy; awkward; unskillful; inept.

Surely they could have come up with something equality as termed for the crit hit version.

Glacier123
09-28-2007, 12:38 PM
I'm sorry, I must say this.

I hope that development decides to rename the vorpal weapons we have now, to Weapons of Sharpness someday.

The way Vorpal weapons are being portrayed, are exactly how weapons of Sharpness are, in the PnP game.

I know I might be reaching back into previous editions of D&D, but it was a great concept then, and I think it could fit into DDO today.

Weapons of Sharpness were basically, minor vorpal weapons. They had a chance to dismember a random extremity (arm, leg, tentacle, head, etc.), and it had nowhere near the enhanced ability of head severing that a Vorpal weapon has.

Sharpness weapons could only have a chance to sever on a nat 20, and then it was random which got severed (1-in-5 chance for the head on a human, for example)

Vorpal weapons only needed a modified total of 20 (a +1 vorpal only needed a 19-20 on the die, a +2 needed 18-20, a +3 vorpal needed a 17-20, etc) and if the modified total was above 20, then their head was lopped off, no random roll.

I wish vorpals were instituted after weapons of Sharpness, because thats what vorpals are in this game. Not ther REAL Vorpal weapons they should be.

The Devs can rename all of the existing vorpals as Sharness weapons, and when they release vorpal weapons for real, have them be the weapons they should be, truly VORPAL.

Sincerely,

I guess we have to point this out again.


Vorpal

This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the heads of those it strikes. Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll to confirm the critical hit), the weapon severs the opponent’s head (if it has one) from its body. Some creatures, such as many aberrations and all oozes, have no heads. Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads. Most other creatures, however, die when their heads are cut off. A vorpal weapon must be a slashing weapon. (If you roll this property randomly for an inappropriate weapon, reroll.)

Strong necromancy and transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, circle of death, keen edge; Price +5 bonus.
Vorpal is working correctly, not a "modified" 20.

Shaamis
09-28-2007, 03:25 PM
I know DDO uses 3.5 rules, and a modified version at that, this is just a point I wanted to discuss.

I might have blended rules together in my recollection, no need to get offensive. I didnt mean to ruffle feathers.

I'm gonna open the vault, and get the 1st, 2nd, and other rulebooks out, so I can see where I misspoke.

If I am wrong, I'll be big enough, and apologize. Like I said, didnt mean to offend people.

Shaamis
09-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but excalabur in 2.0 pnp was only sharpness, not a vorpal, and I think it was only a +3 at that.

But vorpals are allowed to be all over the place, esp in the monty haul versions. this is house ruled 3.5, not pnp form of anything let alone 2.0

Sharpness never allowed the head to be chopped off either. Only a vorpal could do that.

never?

1st ed. pg. 166 DMG:

"Sword of Sharpness is a weapon which is treated as a +3 or better for purposes of who or what can be hit by it, even thought it gets only +1 bonus "to hit" and on damage inflicted. It's power is great however, for on a very high "to hit' die roll as shown below it will sever an extremity - an arm, leg, neck, tail, tentacle, whatever - determined by a random dice roll:

Opponent is: / Modified score to sever*
normal/armored : / 19-21
larger than man-sized : / 20-21
solid metal or stone : / 21

*Considers only the sword's bonus of +1."

A Sword of Sharpness will respond to its wielder's desire with respect to the light it sheds - none, a 5' circle of dim illumination, a 15' light, or a 30' radius glow equal to a light spell.


The only difference between 1st and 2nd ed. is:

"...on a very high "to hit' die roll as shown below it will sever an extremity - an arm, leg, neck, tail, tentacle, whatever (but not the head)- determined by a random dice roll:....."

otherwise it's exactly the same. So a 1st ed. Sword of Sharpness CAN behead a medium sized creature on a natural 18-20, but a 2nd ed. one can't according to the respective editions. If you want to get into the semantics of neck severing doesn't mean the head, that's just the gray area of 1st edition AD&D


I'm also not remembering your claim about a +1 vorpal lopping off heads on a 19-20. Perhapes this and head loppings were in the modified 2.x rules and not 2.0 rules.

I apologize in my recollection, it's a natural 17-20 for a vorpal to behead a medium sized creature.

pg. 166 of 1st. ed. DMG:

"Sword, Vorpal Weapon, is similar but superior to a sword of sharpness. A vorpal weapon is +3 "to hit" and for damage bonus. When a score on the "to hit" die as shown below is made, it will sever the neck/head of its opponent:

Opponent is: / Modified score to sever*
normal/armored: / 20-23
larger than man-sized: / 21-23
solid metal or stone: / 22-23

*considers only the sword's bonus of +3."

and 2nd ed. pg. 186:

"Sword, Vorpal: Similar but superior to a sword of sharpness. A vorpal weapon is +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls. Check the table below to determine whether an attack roll is good enough to sever the neck/head of the opponent:

Opponent is: / Modified score to sever*
normal/armored: / 20-23
larger than man-sized: / 21-23
solid metal or stone: / 22-23

*considers only the sword's bonus of +3."

almost exactly the same word for word, and 100% the same game mechanics-wise



We are playing an MMO version of D&D 3.5, not AD&D. Vorpals in 3.5 work as Turbine implemented them. Notice you don't have a THACO but BAB instead. Please don't ask for AD&D rules(which I don't believe you have correct in any case)when we already moved past them years ago.

Turbine has stayed real close to 3.5 ed. in the respect to vorpal weapons, but I am asking they bring back sharpness weapons, from previous versions, because the weapons we call vorpal in DDO are not those awe-inspiring weapons of lore.


I guess we have to point this out again.

If you mean someone asked in the forums to have weapons of sharpness in the game, and have vorpal weapons as raid only loot, then I apologize, but I thought my question/request was fairly acute.


Vorpal is working correctly, not a "modified" 20.

You are right, according to 3.5 ed D&D only a natural 20 can sever the head after a confirmed crit, and a weapon of sharpness didn't exist after 2nd ed.

But in previous editions (which I said in my OP, I might be referring to) the vorpal and sharpness weapons are hands down much more powerful that their latest edition counterparts (and sharpness really doesn't exist much)

My main post, however, asks the question why can't they be brought back, for DDO, and truly VORPAL weapons (i.e. 1st and 2nd ed. style, and MUCH more powerful) be reserved as raid loot?

I guess the answer to my question is that there are those of us who don't care about the true elite status of having a true vorpal weapon, and would much rather let everyone have a kitchen drawer full of vorpal butterknives, cuz that's pretty much how good they are.

Kerrn_Siff
09-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Notice you don't have a THACO but BAB instead. .

*sniff* I miss THAC0... :(

AD&D.. a game that was unafraid to be unbalanced and imperfect.

Shaamis
09-30-2007, 09:54 PM
*sniff* I miss THAC0... :(

AD&D.. a game that was unafraid to be unbalanced and imperfect.

I agree with you Siff, it took a great GM to make a great game, and the rules are meant to be altered, evaluated, and challenged by the players, and GMs.

Some rules were cleaned up, others were just erased, just so it's easier to learn.

Yshkabibble
10-01-2007, 12:06 AM
Yeah, kind of like how "bone breaking" does nothing on skeletons. Never understood that either.


I wish we could rename "Jumbo Shrimp" too.