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Kanaric
09-27-2007, 06:08 PM
As far as feat selection is concerned, with a TWF character, like a Ranger for example, should I go for the Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack line or is there something else that I should consider?

sigtrent
09-27-2007, 06:24 PM
I don't like them much but some folks do...

Basicaly for 3 feats you get....
+1 AC
+4 to hit while moving around

The down side of moving around is you are only getting 3 attacks per "round" and all of them are at your normal attack bonus. (without the feat they are at a -4 penalty)

If you stand still and fight you get 7 attacks per round, 3 of them at base attack, 2 at +5 and 2 at +10

Now the rounds in question may be of somewhat different lenghts, but you can see the point I'm making. If you want to hit often and hard, moving is not a great way to do it.

If you are more interested in defense.. then they are decent because you can avoid a lot of hits by scooting around a lot. the question is... if you are not killing them quickly is the number of misses ofset by the number of extra swings they take on you because it takes you longer to kill them?

Personaly I mix both. I stand when I want to whollp something, and I move when I want to avoid an attack. I do swing while I move soemtimes but its only because I might as well, not because it's a combat strategy.

Kanaric
09-27-2007, 06:46 PM
I don't like them much but some folks do...

Basicaly for 3 feats you get....
+1 AC
+4 to hit while moving around

The down side of moving around is you are only getting 3 attacks per "round" and all of them are at your normal attack bonus. (without the feat they are at a -4 penalty)

If you stand still and fight you get 7 attacks per round, 3 of them at base attack, 2 at +5 and 2 at +10

Now the rounds in question may be of somewhat different lenghts, but you can see the point I'm making. If you want to hit often and hard, moving is not a great way to do it.

If you are more interested in defense.. then they are decent because you can avoid a lot of hits by scooting around a lot. the question is... if you are not killing them quickly is the number of misses ofset by the number of extra swings they take on you because it takes you longer to kill them?

Personaly I mix both. I stand when I want to whollp something, and I move when I want to avoid an attack. I do swing while I move soemtimes but its only because I might as well, not because it's a combat strategy.

What would you go for over this?

redoubt
09-27-2007, 07:55 PM
I do like dodge. Not so much the others.

Alternatives include:
Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec
Imp crit
power attack
Weapon finese if you are dex based
Precision if you have a low to hit
Combat expertise if you are going for high AC

sigtrent
09-27-2007, 09:15 PM
What would you go for over this?

It really depends...

Genrealy I have a plan for what my character is supposed to do.. lots of damage, lots of defense, a mix of magic and swordplay.. and so on. Basicaly I have a theme or strategy I'm after and it more or less dictates the feats I pick.

Improved critical for your favorite weapon type is always good. Power attack is awesome if you have a good high attack score.

Toughness is great so long as you have a class or racial enhancement to go with it and arn't already over 300HP at 14.

I do like dodge if you are focusing on a good AC. If not its just kind of a drop in the bucket.

Mental toughness is good if you like casting your buffs on the party (they appreciate it!)

But if you really like the running around and fighting (my wife loves to play like that) then they are decent. +4 to hit is nothing to sneaze at, I just feel that if you want to do DPS then its not very effective at that.

Kanaric
09-27-2007, 09:56 PM
It really depends...

Genrealy I have a plan for what my character is supposed to do.. lots of damage, lots of defense, a mix of magic and swordplay.. and so on. Basicaly I have a theme or strategy I'm after and it more or less dictates the feats I pick.

Improved critical for your favorite weapon type is always good. Power attack is awesome if you have a good high attack score.

Toughness is great so long as you have a class or racial enhancement to go with it and arn't already over 300HP at 14.

I do like dodge if you are focusing on a good AC. If not its just kind of a drop in the bucket.

Mental toughness is good if you like casting your buffs on the party (they appreciate it!)

But if you really like the running around and fighting (my wife loves to play like that) then they are decent. +4 to hit is nothing to sneaze at, I just feel that if you want to do DPS then its not very effective at that.

k well since I want to go for DPS then I should get the critical feats, thx for the help.

Ninetailfox
10-11-2007, 08:05 PM
I always think it is rather funny that so many people going dps routes, and who pick apart builds for deviating from +1 attack bonus per level classes too much. The same people who squeeze every last to hit they can refuse to see the value of not suffering -4 to hit while moving. I just find the mentality amusing and rather confusing. With as breakneck as speed groups are going these days, how often are you standing still and how often are you moving or more likely trying to keep up with that zerging barbarian? Also I don't know the last time I saw a mob just stand there and take the hits. Either the caster was a spastic pyro and pulled the agro or perhaps they just gained the agro for being there (mobs lately tend to single out my casters and cleric type characters for no apparent reason other than the fact that they are casters), or someone pulls agro and the mob runs there, or the mob does that insanely aggravating jumping back moves they all seem to love to do.

So In all these situations you are already suffering -4 to hit and not getting your 4th swings or the bonus that comes with it. Why is it such a bad thing for a fighter build to fit in there? Can every build fit it in...No, and frankly not every build should, as it does not fit every build. But I don't see why everyone is so quick to pick apart or bash such a valuable tactical feat tree the moment someone suggests it.

In addition I can't count the number of attacks critical and not I have avoided by raging ogres/giants, or the number of ray spells like searing light/scorching ray or enfeeble (breaking the enemy casters line of sight by running behind them while they are casting and still swinging at him) all just by staying mobile in combat and not sitting there like a bump on a log and taking the hits/spells. The feat tree is valuable for a thinking melee type with damage mitigation in mind and has the sense to avoid damage instead of expecting the cleric to just heal it.

I am not personally attacking anyone in this post so please do not take it that way. I just get this impression from browsing the forums and getting a general consensus of posts and this is my take on the topic so take these 2 copper pieces or not and call me a crackpot noob, it matters not.