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WeaselKing
09-26-2007, 11:29 AM
So I play a level 7 wiz WF and I often PUG as I am in a small guild. I have found it a little frustrating that the cleric is always healing me. Don't get me wrong I appreciate being healed especially in the middle of a battle but I have a 20 con and am getting the hang of managing agro. My real complaint is that before I can even pull out a wand between battles before the cleric has topped me off, it just seems like a waste of the clerics resources either spell points that could be used on those who can't wand whip themselves and don't lose 50% of the heal or a waste of the plat they spend on wands.

I have played a cleric and I understand that it can become automatic to heal anyone who's bar goes down but it just seems like a waste for a class that always complains about not having enough plat or not getting to use those offensive spells.

So.... how do you keep clerics from healing you?

Citymorg
09-26-2007, 11:33 AM
I have had the same problem. I made a WF barbarian, before the immunities and enhancement change (when you could only take 4 enhancements). He took 2 levels of Sorc so he could heal himself. I start by telling Clerics that I take care of almost all my own healing, and they don't need to worry about me until I am at 1/4-incap. Then I go on to say that I don't have any healer's friend and 100% Fort. By then they usually leave me alone.

With that said, it's never bad to have someone looking over your should, even if you do heal yourself.

WeaselKing
09-26-2007, 12:40 PM
With that said, it's never bad to have someone looking over your should, even if you do heal yourself.

Agreed, I just feel more uber when I take care of myself. Who said warforged don't have egos. :D

Zenako
09-26-2007, 12:49 PM
As a Cleric, if I can't target you, no healing. So just stay out of range...

Seriously, just let them know, and accept the reflexive healing that will still come your way.

Solstyse
09-26-2007, 12:52 PM
Like the above people said communication is the key, let them know. But on the same hand if you say " don't worry about healing me I have it covered" then you die, don't get mad at your cleric.
I have found it better to let the cleric heal you anyways, it lets them do your job and less people die.

ErgonomicCat
09-26-2007, 01:53 PM
I have found it better to let the cleric heal you anyways, it lets them do your job and less people die.

That's the problem, though. It means they are devoting their SP (and theoretically double their SP, with your penalty to heals) to keeping you up, rather than someone else.

SP spent is SP lost. ;)

But really, it sounds like it's the cleric's issue. They really shouldn't be topping you off either, unless it's a run with a lot of shrines, or you're coming to a big boss....

I'd say you're doing what you can - tell them, maybe remind them, then be done with it.

RemoJr
09-26-2007, 03:30 PM
I understand what you mean, my 14 wiz can usually bring himself to full hp with reconstruct (repair enhancements and +% items help). However, if the cleric wants to heal you anyway, it's no big deal. Just keep an eye on your health and if your hurt badly, then repair. otherwise if the cleric wants to heal you, let him. Far better then the days of the pre-immunities when you couldn't get a cleric you heal you unless you were friends.

Rowanheal
09-26-2007, 03:41 PM
I will admit to being guilty of this myself.

On Rowanheal, I just see bars, to be honest, I never remember who is WF, I just heal.

I am also guilty of not healing the guy who always runs ahead and gets his won rear end whooped on for the 10th time... sometimes this is a WF, and I get yelled out for not healing WF...I am just sooooo bigoted :)

However, I have been playing WF lately and have come to realize Cleric's healing me is a waste.

I don't know how to help here other than to say...don't heal me :)

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

Melioch
09-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Yes, i hate it when the cleric is doing his job and keeps me alive :mad:

As a 500 HP 13 Barb/1 Sorc I'm much more efficient casting light repair 75 times so the cleric won't waste a heal on me.

As a 14 Wiz heaven forbids you to heal me since i can cast reconstruct. Yes a single heal will restore me to full health but that's not the point, it's wasted mana i tell you. Oh by the way heres your GH, displacement, Stoneskin and haste mr Cleric, now go forth and cast some more blade barriers you offensive class you.

MrCow
09-27-2007, 10:21 AM
The steps I took once to get my message across once on the fact that I was better off healing myself.


Stand in lava until you are low on hp.

Watch as the cleric sometimes reflexively heals you.

Step back in and watch them go crazy for attempted suicide.

Cast reconstruction and observe as they ask "How did you do that"?

oronisi
09-27-2007, 02:12 PM
I have had the same problem. I made a WF barbarian, before the immunities and enhancement change (when you could only take 4 enhancements). He took 2 levels of Sorc so he could heal himself. I start by telling Clerics that I take care of almost all my own healing, and they don't need to worry about me until I am at 1/4-incap. Then I go on to say that I don't have any healer's friend and 100% Fort. By then they usually leave me alone.

With that said, it's never bad to have someone looking over your should, even if you do heal yourself.

That's what I do. If the cleric doesn't heed my warning, it's his loss.

JelloMold
09-27-2007, 02:45 PM
I think it is a problem with clerics in general. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a heal, but I hate it when I try to keep them from wasting resources and they blow it on me. Most of the time, they are counted on to keep people alive sothey have a tendency to heal anyone they can. I have the same trouble with my rangers and pallys. There is no reason to top off a ranger or pally inbetween fights. What gets me is when I'm sitting at 145 of 150hps. I'm not going to blow a wand charge to top that off, but the cleric (who has seen me healing myself) decides to heal me back to full.


Yes, i hate it when the cleric is doing his job and keeps me alive :mad:

As a 500 HP 13 Barb/1 Sorc I'm much more efficient casting light repair 75 times so the cleric won't waste a heal on me.

As a 14 Wiz heaven forbids you to heal me since i can cast reconstruct. Yes a single heal will restore me to full health but that's not the point, it's wasted mana i tell you. Oh by the way heres your GH, displacement, Stoneskin and haste mr Cleric, now go forth and cast some more blade barriers you offensive class you.

[COLOR="white"]I think it is a poor player and foolish choice to EVER assume someone is going to heal you. If you are a WF and have the ability to heal yourself (UMD wands, lots of pots, or caster class) you should do so whenever you can. Knowing when you can and can't is part of being a good player. In fact, I'd go so far as to say all WF should take a level of caster simply so you can (at the bare minimum) top yourself off. Pigeonholing someone you've not met into a category is bad play. Clerics can do extremely effective things to make a quest go smoother. Even if your cleric is a heal bot, their SP goes further if they don't throw you a heal that you can do yourself. Really, I think this advice goes for all classes. Everyone should be self sufficient and only "rely" on a healer if things get too hot.

frederjoe1
09-27-2007, 02:55 PM
So.... how do you keep clerics from healing you?


Well you can always walk over a take a leak on his boots...

j/k anyhow, being a cleric that occasionally heals wf, I tend to wait until I have healed everyone else before I deal with the WF so that it gives them a chance to heal themselves if they are going to instead of me healing them, but if all else fails, let them blow the sp, can't hurt right.

Melioch
09-27-2007, 03:47 PM
[color="white"]I think it is a poor player and foolish choice to EVER assume someone is going to heal you. If you are a WF and have the ability to heal yourself (UMD wands, lots of pots, or caster class) you should do so whenever you can. Knowing when you can and can't is part of being a good player. In fact, I'd go so far as to say all WF should take a level of caster simply so you can (at the bare minimum) top yourself off. Pigeonholing someone you've not met into a category is bad play. Clerics can do extremely effective things to make a quest go smoother. Even if your cleric is a heal bot, their SP goes further if they don't throw you a heal that you can do yourself. Really, I think this advice goes for all classes. Everyone should be self sufficient and only "rely" on a healer if things get too hot.

Haha then why not say clerics should take a level of fighter in order to wield a martial weapon because it's dumb to assume the tanks are going to kill the mobs.

Please, self sufficiency has its limits. I'll repair myself between fights but i better be kept alive by the cleric when I'm in the middle of a mob managing aggro.

Try to do that efficiently while wielding that repair light wand.

ErgonomicCat
09-27-2007, 05:05 PM
Haha then why not say clerics should take a level of fighter in order to wield a martial weapon because it's dumb to assume the tanks are going to kill the mobs.


Seriously, I know you're just provoking to flame, but come on.

Comparing "I can/can't heal myself" to "I do 1d6/1d8 with my weapon"?

If you have a cleric that wears only robes, has a 6 str, a 6 con, and doesn't own any melee weapons, then you're about on par with the difference. Not simple vs martial.

And I would, in fact, argue that every member of the team should have some ability to cause a mob to die. Even the cleric. If you're the only one left standing, and there's only one mob, with 10 hp, you'd best be able to remove those 10 hp so everyone can come back w/o hitting the tavern....

Melioch
09-28-2007, 09:29 AM
Seriously, I know you're just provoking to flame, but come on.

Comparing "I can/can't heal myself" to "I do 1d6/1d8 with my weapon"?

If you have a cleric that wears only robes, has a 6 str, a 6 con, and doesn't own any melee weapons, then you're about on par with the difference. Not simple vs martial.

And I would, in fact, argue that every member of the team should have some ability to cause a mob to die. Even the cleric. If you're the only one left standing, and there's only one mob, with 10 hp, you'd best be able to remove those 10 hp so everyone can come back w/o hitting the tavern....

Where I'm i provoking anything buddy, If i disagree with someone I'm automatically flaming? Heres a smilie to lighten up the mood a little bit : :)

Also, don't take my martial weapon example too literally, You're taking me waaaaay out of context. JelloMold stated they he would suggest ANY WF to grab a lvl of caster. So you're going to gimp your full potential just to unlock a mediocre potential of self repair between fights? Please, buy some potions.

Specific classes excel at specific things, you can't be decently good at everything. Trying to be a jack of all trades just means you're average in everything you do.

Were getting out of the initial subject don't you think?

ninja edit: Heres a few extra smilies in case anyone found something offensive in my reply :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

ErgonomicCat
09-28-2007, 10:21 AM
Specific classes excel at specific things, you can't be decently good at everything. Trying to be a jack of all trades just means you're average in everything you do.



Agreed.

Being a near master fighter, who can heal himself, is not a jack of all trades, though.

Fighter 14:

Bab +14
Fort +9
Will +4
Ref +4

HP: 14d10 (140 max)
8 bonus feats.
Lvl 14 Fighter enhancements

Melee 13/Caster 1:

Bab +13
Fort +8
Will +6
Ref +4

HP: 13d10 + 1d4 (134 max)

7 bonus feats (sorc) or 8 (wiz).
Level 13 Fighter Enhancements, Level 1 Caster (lose Fighter extra action boost II, gain Caster 1).

Fighter 12/Caster 2:

Bab +13
Fort +8
Will +7
Ref +4

HP: 12d10 + 2d4 (128 max)
7 bonus feats (sorc) or 8 (wiz).
Level 12 Fighter Enhancements, Level 2 Caster (lose Fighter Item Defense IV and Fighter Flanking Mastery III, gain Wand Mastery, Casting stat boost).

Multiclassing, when done carefully, and with forethought, can be a huge benefit, but there's an instinctual "Multiclassing is weak, and you're gimped if you do it!" reaction most of the time....

Melioch
09-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Multi classing is indeed far from weak but if it's only to be able to minor repair yourself, you rather be drinking serious pots.

but yeah for the sake of not derailing this thread any further let's just say it all comes down to style of play and preferences.

Alavatar
09-28-2007, 06:37 PM
As a 500 HP 13 Barb/1 Sorc I'm much more efficient casting light repair 75 times so the cleric won't waste a heal on me.


Wand use is based on character level, not caster level. Therefore, you can use a Repair Serious wand.

Hvymetal
09-29-2007, 10:59 AM
I'll take heals from anyone, I'll give heals to anyone. I'm easy like that:)

Arianrhod
10-21-2007, 05:46 PM
Like many clerics, mine just looks at the red bars when the heals are flying fast - taking the time to discriminate between those who can heal themselves & those who can't (won't - c'mon, anyone can chug a potion) just increases the odds of someone dying.

On the other hand, when the fight is over & it's time for topping folks off, I tend to give everyone with any self-healing ability (rangers, paladins, WF with wiz or sorc levels, bards & other clerics) a chance to use their own wands before using mine on them. I'd rather spend the money on wands than have to reenter the quest after a party wipe, but I'd also rather let other people spend their money on wands ;)

Spectralist
10-27-2007, 06:55 AM
Take the level6 feat that makes you immune to healing and gives 100% fort. The cleric'll learn quick that way... after you explain for the sixth time why you are immune to healing as he blows all his mana trying to remove a non-existent curse :D

Ziggy
10-27-2007, 03:16 PM
I really dont worry about it. 1 heal from a cleric, normally gives me back almost all my HP's. I tell them not to worry about it when i see them tossing cure mod's my way.

Ghoste
10-27-2007, 03:29 PM
Yes, i hate it when the cleric is doing his job and keeps me alive :mad:

As a 500 HP 13 Barb/1 Sorc I'm much more efficient casting light repair 75 times so the cleric won't waste a heal on me.

As a 14 Wiz heaven forbids you to heal me since i can cast reconstruct. Yes a single heal will restore me to full health but that's not the point, it's wasted mana i tell you. Oh by the way heres your GH, displacement, Stoneskin and haste mr Cleric, now go forth and cast some more blade barriers you offensive class you.
The funny thing is, I think you're being sarcastic, but that's exactly my train of thought, minus the part about only 1 cast of heal being able to bring my lvl 14 wiz to full health (takes at least 2).

I really think more people need to take better care of their own characters, and yes, let the clerics do some more fighting. When a cleric joines the party, people should think "oh great, here's a tank/caster who can definitely heal himself" and not "oh great, here's someone who can allow me to behave in a way that ignores the consequences of my own actions."

Grond
10-31-2007, 06:37 PM
Take the level6 feat that makes you immune to healing and gives 100% fort. The cleric'll learn quick that way... after you explain for the sixth time why you are immune to healing as he blows all his mana trying to remove a non-existent curse :D

I use aid on WF with that feat :)

Seriously, I see both side of this issue. I play a cleric, and the party I run with regularly has 3 wf in it, sorc, wiz, and batman. I let the arcanes do the healing between fights, but when the excrement is in the rotating blades, they're usually busy CC or nuking, and I'll slap a heal on the fighter if he's in danger of dropping. It's all about communication and cooperation. In pugs, you'll never hear me complain about having to heal wf, since I usually don't have to remove poison/disease or restore level drains on them nearly as much as fleshies either. If some guy tells me, "I can self heal," I'll just try to make sure he doesn't drop while failing concentration checks or something.

My two warforged characters are both self suffficient via wands and potions. I'll tell clerics in parties I'm in that I can wand whip myself, so don't blow alot of mana on me. However, if I am in trouble and they toss a heal my way, it's "Nice timing on that heal, thanks." Most of the time I find that clerics I meet are pretty savvy about managing their mana though.

Of course, the best thing to do is go all wf party. :D We did ghosts of perdition last night with 3 wf arcanes and two fighters, pretty fun.

Silou
08-11-2008, 04:02 PM
For what it's worth I'd have to say there's really nothing you can do to keep that cleric from healing you. You can tell him/her all day that you are self sufficient but it all boils down to how observant the cleric is. Nothing is better than a cleric, or any character for that matter, that is totally zoned into the team. Knowing your team is just as important as knowing your quest. I understand this can get difficult if you don't regularly group with the same people but there's an old poker saying "After 3 minutes at the table you better be able to pick out the sucker, if you can't then stand up cause it's you" ... yeah yeah.. poker - D&D not exactly similar here. But the saying has some merit. It doesn't take long to figure out the idioms and quirks of the people you're teamed with if you keep your eyes open.

There are reasons the MMO comunity has assigned nicknames for team member jobs... Tanks, Nukes, Healers... they have a specific rule in the team. As long as everyone follows their role and keeps an eye on each other. Personally I play a Striker, get in, deal huge damage, get out. I don't have the AC or DR to even begin to think about standing toe to toe with the tank... so I spend a few AP in healers friend. I know that if I get aggro I'll be taking serious damage so I want to make it as easy as possible on all posible healers in the team. At the sme time however I carry plenty of repair pots for between fights.

I seem to have gotten off track, curse my poetic soul.. lol.. What I'm trying to get across here is simply, tell them you can heal yourself, remind them if yu have to,if you have the time and inclination explain to them the situation, and if they still toss heals your way don't sweat it. Less money you have to spend on pots or wands in the long run.

Edit: PS: Maybe I've been lucky but I have also found that pure WF teams tend to be superior to ones with fleshies in them

Beherit_Baphomar
08-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Juss like you said in yer OP, its more a reflex thing than a thought out process.
If I see a red bar falling, I heal that person.
Doesnt matter who or what it is, its getting healed.

Id just be grateful, cause one day yer gonna spaz out and miss yer own heal and a cleric might just save
yer ass.

Varr
08-11-2008, 05:33 PM
When Im clericing...........It is my right to heal my 5 little helpers, be they flesh or wood...........many times they can not be trusted to do my bidding appropriatly and fall in a hole and die. Once one gets to about 50% of thier health........a single heal is typicaly enought to get them back to the 85-100% range. If my agro magnets get themselves killed, then I would be forced to dirty my hands on the evil hoards. My my.......I think not.

GORAK
08-11-2008, 10:45 PM
Just take the Imp Fortification feat and cure spells have no effect on you :-)
Solves your problem.

EightyFour
08-11-2008, 10:59 PM
Just take the Imp Fortification feat and cure spells have no effect on you :-)
Solves your problem.

Ahhh, ya beat me too it. But that well keep the healer's off you for sure when they see all those 0's pop up. You might get some reflex healing here and there, but most of the healing well stay off ya.

lasra
08-11-2008, 11:11 PM
Man, I am afraid that you guys are going to give the clerics a dual identity crisis.

WF Sorc: Don't ever heal me.
WF Barb: Yeah, me either.
Cleric: Well ****, I'm healing specced.
-------------------------------------------
Cleric: Hey Fred. Need a few favors.
Fred: No worries mate. That will be 100,000 gold and 5 dragonshards please.
Cleric: Thanks Fred.
-------------------------------------------
Cleric: Eat hot Blade Barrier! You talkin' to me? *Comefall*
Party member 1: (Tell Party member 2) Stupid cleric. I've used 40 CSW pots already.
Party member 2: (reply) Yeah. Definitely not gonna party with this tool anymore.

Oreg
08-11-2008, 11:32 PM
My advice is, in the first 3 minutes of the quest, in group chat say "man I hate this cleric. he sucks" then pause a sec and say "sorry dude that was meant for Teamspeak to my guild. Didn't mean you. I was ummm talking about a ummm cleric in last night's Shroud".

Voila no more heals the rest of the quest.

sirgog
08-12-2008, 12:31 AM
My advice is, in the first 3 minutes of the quest, in group chat say "man I hate this cleric. he sucks" then pause a sec and say "sorry dude that was meant for Teamspeak to my guild. Didn't mean you. I was ummm talking about a ummm cleric in last night's Shroud".

Voila no more heals the rest of the quest.

LOL

Uska
08-12-2008, 01:05 AM
I pull all the aggro I can to their area then use diplomacy so they get it all:D

cardmj1
08-12-2008, 05:33 AM
From the cleric point of view, it's all red bars. Honestly, if I have never ran with you before there is a good chance that I don't realize your wf unless I actually happen to see you between fights. Between fights on the other hand, I heal up the wf last. That way if they are self sufficient, I will see you drinking pots or using sp to reconstruct yourself and I will leave you alone. But also know this, I am a specc'd healer because my husband played a wf barbie when I started playing. I learned to cleric by following him and trying to keep his butt alive. It was not easy but he enjoyed it to no end to see how much **** he could pull before I went ballistic. It's the same with the quests. I could not lead you through many of the quests out there above lvl 12. I don't see the quest, I see bars. When I get to an area and the sorc/wiz start setting up cc, then I know where I am b/c I remember fire prot here, curse remove ready, or symbol pain at this door. It's a completely different game when playing a cleric.

Phidius
10-03-2008, 04:12 PM
Wand use is based on character level, not caster level. Therefore, you can use a Repair Serious wand.

I was very happy when I discovered that the vendor in the Twelve sold both stoneskin wands and Repair Critical wands :)

I just let the clerics know that I heal myself, but would never turn down a heal. That way, they can decide for themselves if they want to throw a heal my way or not - I'm all about letting people play the way they want to play, as long as they let me play the way I want.

DoctorWhofan
10-03-2008, 04:18 PM
So I play a level 7 wiz WF and I often PUG as I am in a small guild. I have found it a little frustrating that the cleric is always healing me. Don't get me wrong I appreciate being healed especially in the middle of a battle but I have a 20 con and am getting the hang of managing agro. My real complaint is that before I can even pull out a wand between battles before the cleric has topped me off, it just seems like a waste of the clerics resources either spell points that could be used on those who can't wand whip themselves and don't lose 50% of the heal or a waste of the plat they spend on wands.

I have played a cleric and I understand that it can become automatic to heal anyone who's bar goes down but it just seems like a waste for a class that always complains about not having enough plat or not getting to use those offensive spells.

So.... how do you keep clerics from healing you?

Tell them you havethe feat that not allows for healing, even if you don't. Then again, you will not have top offs mid fight.

The simplest thing to tell you is we like to heal, we like full red bars andwe do not discriminate by race. Be thankful you have a cleric that heals you. THere are ones that refuse to even touch WF. I tend not to heal a WF caster, but sometimes I do forget (especially in a raid) who is what and what race.

Jay203
10-04-2008, 03:01 AM
So.... how do you keep clerics from healing you?

by not getting hurt!
~tumbleweed~

esoitl
10-04-2008, 04:20 AM
I've just started running WF - one Barbarian and one Wizard. I never complain if the Cleric heals me but I always mention to them that I carry plenty of pots or that I'm self-healing. Normally the Clerics I group with take this pretty well and I do most of my own healing, other times they just don't listen very well or forget before too long.

I've been in the habit now of my lower Cleric to NOT heal WF casters at all.... it's funny as some of them heal themselves and some don't. I just don't get it.
There's something not right about a WF Wizard asking for heals and drinking pots throughout a quest. For Barbarians and such though, drinking pots is just silly as they have too many HP and no real access to decent healing.

I'm starting to treat Rangers and Paladins a little the same, they can take care of their own healing and if they're smart they'd actually carry some wands for it. I tend to keep them at 75% and let them do the rest. Hopefully this makes people become a bit more self-sufficient and improve their play, but I doubt it.

Phidius
10-06-2008, 12:50 PM
For those arcane WFs, here's another idea... carry Raise Dead/True Resurrection scrolls, and at the start of the quest, tell the cleric that you'll give them a scroll for every time they raise you.

You shouldn't feel guilty if they still heal you (keeping in mind those comments about "I see red bars").