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Slayer918
09-24-2007, 09:48 PM
I want to roll a wizard and I think I'll have enough feats for 2 spell focuses. I want to be a good CC specilist and have good FoD/PK abilities... my question is should I go enchantment (mass hold, charm spells, and ottos dancing sphere etc...) or necromancy (FoD, Symbol of fear etc...). Or maybe I should take one of each?

What would you guys do with your wizards?

Having Flesh to stone on my sorc I think the fortitude save on FoD would be high enough to accomplish what I want. I know the game very well and so It wont be a problem for me to use will save spells against fighters and fort save on casters etc... as I know when they'll be coming up.

Heighten, extend, maximize, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, spell penetration, spell focus _______ , and (greater) spell focus _______ ?

MrCow
09-24-2007, 10:15 PM
This is a hard question because there are some ways that enchantment spells and necromancy spells find ways to duplicate effects (with enchantments for the living and necromancy primarily for the undead in this regard).

Most groups typically have an easier time with an enchantment specialist because the type of crowd control it makes is either "stay still" or "your my slave". Most of your crowd control spells in the enchantment school are equipped with a nice distance for casting (except Otto's Resistable Dance). Being bards get most of these spells and the enchantment school is regularly used I'm assuming you know these fairly well.

Necromancy on the other hand has a lot of versatility, but you don't see it fully realized as some of the spells are a mixed bag in a party. Fear, for instance, is awesome at stopping a crowd and comes with a fixed duration of 6 seconds per caster level. Ghoul touch in humanoid infested places is a cheap version of hold person off of a fort save with no reoccuring save every two seconds. Contagion can make an animal or rust monster helpless due to INT damage very easily or blind something else (its a versatile spell in itself). Animate Undead: Zombie mixed with a control undead when the control breaks (and add eagle's splendor for a stronger despair DC) will make for an automatic DC 18 paralysis effect, great against elementals. Lets not forget, it adds to your instakill Finger of Death. Necromancy control (or death) comes in will and fortitude save flavors.

So, the enchantment school is fairly straight forward. If the critter thinks hard then you can control it (most of the time). Necromancy is the school that takes more skill, practice, and knowledge to make fully effective. Later on, when we get spells like horrid wilting and wail of the banshee, necromancy will probably be one heck of a force to reckon with (with those spells mainly competing against Dominate Monster and Mass Hold Monster).

It is a hard decision to make because both spell schools are strong in DDO.

My advice is two part: If you take a spell focus feat, try to pair it up with the matching greater spell focus feat. The second, being biased by the more lengthy segment on necromancy spells, is that I see more potential in necromancy focus.

MrWizard
09-25-2007, 12:00 AM
I want to roll a wizard and I think I'll have enough feats for 2 spell focuses. I want to be a good CC specilist and have good FoD/PK abilities... my question is should I go enchantment (mass hold, charm spells, and ottos dancing sphere etc...) or necromancy (FoD, Symbol of fear etc...). Or maybe I should take one of each?

What would you guys do with your wizards?

Having Flesh to stone on my sorc I think the fortitude save on FoD would be high enough to accomplish what I want. I know the game very well and so It wont be a problem for me to use will save spells against fighters and fort save on casters etc... as I know when they'll be coming up.

Heighten, extend, maximize, mental toughness, improved mental toughness, spell penetration, spell focus _______ , and (greater) spell focus _______ ?


If you look on my sig and go through the enchantment and others...you will see the small list of useful spells with necro... and you will find enchantment works with a gazillion good spells....if I had to take one...it would be enchantment all the way.

To take necro..... most people never use command undead and I have never seen anyone use control undead....and halt undead just sux at higher elite levels... fear and some others are useful, but my fear robe works on elite 16th level stuff..... the last is FoD....one or two feats for one spell?

I goota go with enchantment...
all the holds...
all the charm person/monsters/persuasions
All the hypno/pattern/ etc

Just so much....

However......I would take at least one of those spots with spell penetration since no matter how many feats you have, the spell is useless if it bounces off of the monster.

(for instance, you seldom see anyone FoD the ancient spiders in Trial by fire....with a lot of spell pen....BAM...they go down easy.)

I used the enchantment focus until I got a few feats under my belt...then I switched it out for spell pen...

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 09:17 AM
Hey Connor, Stryyf is necromancy focused with a 32 DC FoD, 32 DC Fear spell, and realistically you can use the Dreamsplitter to perform the same as dual Enchantment foci. My command undead spells are very very rarely saved on, and the next mod will be all about undead.

I recommend the necromancy focus looking out into the future. Enchantment foci is accomplished easily via items and you and I both know you know what mobs on which to cast enchantments.

Rameses
09-25-2007, 02:16 PM
Konnnnnnnnnnnnor

Elon has ZERO spell focus feats since I got those lovely Dragon Shards from Turbine. I swapped them out for other Feats, and I've to notice a concernable difference from have a 32 DC and my current 30 DC.
Seriously, I wouldn't even waste feats on them. Go for the meta-magic feats that are going to be the new hit's Eschew Material Components, Quicken and so on.

I am, Rameses!

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 02:18 PM
Konnnnnnnnnnnnor

Elon has ZERO spell focus feats since I got those lovely Dragon Shards from Turbine. I swapped them out for other Feats, and I've to notice a concernable difference from have a 32 DC and my current 30 DC.
Seriously, I wouldn't even waste feats on them. Go for the meta-magic feats that are going to be the new hit's Eschew Material Components, Quicken and so on.

I am, Rameses!

Stryyf pwns Elon.

Rameses
09-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Stryyf pwns Elon.

If that makes you feel better about your character. Sure thing butterbean. :p

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 02:24 PM
If that makes you feel better about your character. Sure thing butterbean. :p

There's no way to feel better. Pwnage :eek:

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 02:28 PM
btw I don't understand the preoccupation with Quicken after the next mod. The only real benefit is that it negates the need to make a concentration check when you take damage while spellcasting. The cooldown time is no faster, and it really only increases your cast time for spells like summons, cloudkill, ottos dancing sphere, etc.

Rameses
09-25-2007, 03:38 PM
btw I don't understand the preoccupation with Quicken after the next mod. The only real benefit is that it negates the need to make a concentration check when you take damage while spellcasting. The cooldown time is no faster, and it really only increases your cast time for spells like summons, cloudkill, ottos dancing sphere, etc.

Nuff Said.

And yes there is the Concentration skill.

Concentration = 17 ranks, +6 Con, +4 Greater Heroism, +2 Head of Good Fortune, +2 Enhancements = Total Skill 31

One hit from most things on elite in Giant Hold... failure on a 7 or less.

That's enuff for me.

I am, Rameses!

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 03:50 PM
Well I usually only fail on a 1 :p

Slayer918
09-25-2007, 07:24 PM
Well I usually only fail on a 1 :p

(Combat): You make a concentration skill check 19 (+40). Failure!

^^^^ true story...

Aspenor
09-25-2007, 07:35 PM
(Combat): You make a concentration skill check 19 (+40). Failure!

^^^^ true story...

Get smacked by the stormreaver or something? it happens.

Mad_Bombardier
09-26-2007, 10:30 AM
btw I don't understand the preoccupation with Quicken after the next mod.The big appeal is that it's now affordable (which applies to metamagicking all high level spells) when it previously was not. Personally, I'd love to use it just to normalize all the "long cast" spells. But, application by manual toggling before each spell sucks noodles.

MrCow
09-26-2007, 12:01 PM
Concentration = 17 ranks, +6 Con, +4 Greater Heroism, +2 Head of Good Fortune, +2 Enhancements = Total Skill 31

You can add a concentration item in there somewhere to boost it further if you need. :)

Aspenor
09-26-2007, 12:40 PM
You can add a concentration item in there somewhere to boost it further if you need. :)

Agreed I run around with no less than a +10 concentration item on my high level casters at all times.

Rameses
09-26-2007, 02:19 PM
You can add a concentration item in there somewhere to boost it further if you need. :)

Trust me when I say that there is no spot available for said item. I've been looking for decent multi-tasker items. but have yet to run across one that fit's in the right spot.

Savvy?

I am, Rameses!

Aspenor
09-26-2007, 04:39 PM
Trust me when I say that there is no spot available for said item. I've been looking for decent multi-tasker items. but have yet to run across one that fit's in the right spot.

Savvy?

I am, Rameses!

What are you using for your goggles? I know you have the Napkin, if your goggles are open you can use the Visor of Concentration from the Titan.

Rameses
09-26-2007, 05:40 PM
What are you using for your goggles? I know you have the Napkin, if your goggles are open you can use the Visor of Concentration from the Titan.

Things and Stuff... hehe forgot about that spot...

RemoJr
09-26-2007, 09:40 PM
why only 1? your a wizard, you can take spell focus in both and have some more versatility.

Alot of undead? drop the encantment and grab CC necro spells.

Alot of living? enchant them.

Maybe you just want to kill? Otto's sphere and FoD (this takes advantage of both).

One of the advantages wizards have over sorcerers are our versatility, take advantage of it.

Aspenor
09-27-2007, 08:17 AM
Things and Stuff... hehe forgot about that spot...

Well I'm wearing +13 spot goggles right now, and it really hasn't helped very much. If I was in need of a concentration item, I'd give up the spot for concentration.

Rilen
09-27-2007, 09:03 AM
Speaking of goggles, and since we are taking about focus, I didn't see anyone mention them, but Spectacles of Spirit Sight are my personal choice. (Wiz King drop: +1 to Necromancy & Enchantment focus). All three of my casters use those and a combo +1 Transmutation & Illusion focus 1 hander. I dunno, 4 spell schools focused by +1 using 2 slots seems efficiant to me.

-Ril

Aspenor
09-27-2007, 09:26 AM
Speaking of goggles, and since we are taking about focus, I didn't see anyone mention them, but Spectacles of Spirit Sight are my personal choice. (Wiz King drop: +1 to Necromancy & Enchantment focus). All three of my casters use those and a combo +1 Transmutation & Illusion focus 1 hander. I dunno, 4 spell schools focused by +1 using 2 slots seems efficiant to me.

-Ril

Stormreaver's Napkin....1 item, focus in all schools.

Rilen
09-27-2007, 09:49 AM
Stormreaver's Napkin....1 item, focus in all schools.

True enough, though significantly more rare, not tradable and two levels higher than the specs, three levels higher than a 1 hander (assuming ML10 on the combo item, 5 levels higher if you have a ML8).

Just saying you can have 4 schools focused well before you're able to run the Reaver and hope for a napkin ... :-)