PDA

View Full Version : Wizards Handbook



Vienemen
09-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Original version located in the classes section under Wizard (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=116560)

Vienemen
09-24-2007, 04:21 PM
moved to original location see above

Vienemen
09-24-2007, 04:21 PM
moved to original location see above

Vienemen
09-24-2007, 04:22 PM
moved to original location see above

tihocan
09-25-2007, 12:06 PM
I only gave it a glance, so I won't comment much on it (though it seems like you put a lot of work into it, so congrats!).
Just wanted to say I disagree about invisibility being so useless. It's great when you need to run from A to B without being bothered (e.g. in the desert). You can avoid a lot of aggro thanks to it, and all my characters are equipped from level 1 with invisbility clickies.

Mad_Bombardier
09-25-2007, 12:14 PM
Vieneman, I remember reporting it to you when the thread was in the Wizards forum, but your spell damages are still wrong. You list the Spell Description (per PnP) damage dice, which is not the same in DDO. DDO uses enhanced damage dice. A prime example is Magic Missle which does 1d4+1 in PnP and 1d2+3 in DDO. You will never see a MM hit for less than 4 dmg in DDO.

I can understand that you want to use the documented numbers in your guide, but you should note that they do not apply in game.

Vienemen
09-25-2007, 01:41 PM
Vieneman, I remember reporting it to you when the thread was in the Wizards forum, but your spell damages are still wrong. You list the Spell Description (per PnP) damage dice, which is not the same in DDO. DDO uses enhanced damage dice. A prime example is Magic Missle which does 1d4+1 in PnP and 1d2+3 in DDO. You will never see a MM hit for less than 4 dmg in DDO.

I can understand that you want to use the documented numbers in your guide, but you should note that they do not apply in game.

If you remember right back then I agreed with you as well, but for sake of accuracy since we do not have verified numbers on all damage dice for all spells...the only thing I have to go on is the dice used in SRD and on the DDO compendium. If DDO releases the actual numbers and dice used I will then update it. They really are the same numbers but the actual min damage in game is set around at half dmg or better is all.

Vienemen
09-25-2007, 01:55 PM
I only gave it a glance, so I won't comment much on it (though it seems like you put a lot of work into it, so congrats!).
Just wanted to say I disagree about invisibility being so useless. It's great when you need to run from A to B without being bothered (e.g. in the desert). You can avoid a lot of aggro thanks to it, and all my characters are equipped from level 1 with invisbility clickies.

:) Honestly thats why I made this...to discuss aspects of the arcane in DDO. But dont you agree it should be more dependable? Dont you agree that when a mob gets a bead on you that they become homing missiles? Ever been hit repeatedly by archers while invisible? I have and have lost confidence in tht spell. That is why I suggest other steer from it...specially in prepared spells. There are far too many outstanding lvl 2 choices. Now a clickie on the other hand...not a bad idea actually. I might tote one around and give it a try in a few places like you have mentioned.

Borror0
09-25-2007, 04:43 PM
If you remember right back then I agreed with you as well, but for sake of accuracy since we do not have verified numbers on all damage dice for all spells...

Then test it. You're a wizard, you've got all spells!!

Mad_Bombardier
09-25-2007, 05:25 PM
Then test it. You're a wizard, you've got all spells!!That's what I did before I submitted my results originally. I think the idea was while evidenced in-game, they are still undocumented. :(

Borror0
09-25-2007, 05:30 PM
That's what I did before I submitted my results originally. I think the idea was while evidenced in-game, they are still undocumented. :(

I'd do iut, but I have only a sorcerer and he's level 5. Once he's lv 14... I'll test a few things and update the spell desciption format of the wiki. No point of foing it before unless someone wants to update the spell section of the wiki. In that case, I'd gladly do that for him. I have small interrogation on a few details like the range, in PnP spell can be casted farther but I'm not too sure if they made the translation in DDO.

Vienemen
09-25-2007, 06:06 PM
Can we agree on these? If you think of spells with a variation other than whats listed below let me know. But to my knowledge it is constant.

1d4=1d2+2 (Magic Missile)
1d6=1d3+3 (Fireball)
1d8=1d4+4 (Burning Blood)
1d10=1d5+5 (Niac's Cold Ray)
1d12=1d6+6 (cant think of a d12 spell but there it is anyways)

Now is the matter of how to make it look. Do I add in the actual dmg into each spell description? Do I simply add a sentence in the spells section stating the above? Do I remove the documented dmg and replace it with these? Gonna think on these questins a bit before adding it.

transtemporal
09-26-2007, 05:59 PM
Nice work Vienemen. Some good points there (especially the one about swapping out power/wizardy items, hadn't thought of that).

Re: effectiveness of invisibility, I've found it doesn't give you the ability to run past groups of mobs with impunity and its definitely of limited use if mobs have already spotted/heard you when you cast it, but as long as you stay a good distance away from them or you sneak, its pretty good. Its a bit metagamery but I think you can also break their pathing by getting far enough ahead of them and moving up and down (mushrooms, boxes etc), turning lots of corners, using terrain features etc. If you can get them stuck on a terrain feature because they're too big to pass through, even better!


Now is the matter of how to make it look. Do I add in the actual dmg into each spell description? Do I simply add a sentence in the spells section stating the above? Do I remove the documented dmg and replace it with these? Gonna think on these questins a bit before adding it.

Personally, I would put a disclaimer in the spell introduction explaining how actual damage is different to the documented damge, then list both in the spell description; MM example below.
Documented DMG: (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)
Actual DMG: (1d2+3) + (1d2+3) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)
OR
Actual DMG: (4-5) + (4-5) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)

BTW, whats the maximum number of MMs you can have? I seemed to have capped at 3...

Borror0
09-26-2007, 06:19 PM
Personally, I would put a disclaimer in the spell introduction explaining how actual damage is different to the documented damge, then list both in the spell description; MM example below.
Documented DMG: (1d4+1) + (1d4+1) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)
Actual DMG: (1d2+3) + (1d2+3) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)
OR
Actual DMG: (4-5) + (4-5) per 2 levels after 1st (max blah blah)

I must precise that spells don't do the same damage with the same dice so if it is precised on the spell itself, you'll have to be 100% sure to have texted it out.

Usual d6 spells do 1d3+3 but Scorching Ray do 1d8+16 (instead of 4d3+12). Same for Cure spells which do 1d6+2 instead of 1d4+4 (I know it is a cleric spell but it's well known example).

(Thanks Mad_B.)

transtemporal
09-26-2007, 09:08 PM
I must precise that spells don't do the same damage with the same dice so if it is precised on the spell itself, you'll have to be 100% sure to have texted it out.

Usual d6 spells do 1d3+3 but Scorching Ray do 1d8+16 (instead of 4d3+12). Same for Cure spells which do 1d6+2 instead of 1d4+4 (I know it is a cleric spell but it's well known example).

(Thanks Mad_B.)

Totally agree with you. More trying to make the point that both documented and actual dmg should be included so that casters have the correct expectation of the ammount of dmg they should be doing. When I first started my sorc, I just thought my spell damage rolling was really lucky as it was consistently 75% to 100% for MM!

Borror0
09-26-2007, 09:17 PM
Totally agree with you. More trying to make the point that both documented and actual dmg should be included so that casters have the correct expectation of the ammount of dmg they should be doing. When I first started my sorc, I just thought my spell damage rolling was really lucky as it was consistently 75% to 100% for MM!

Yeah, hehe. I'd love someone do to that research for the wiki. However, no one has time... :p If you (or anyone reading this) are interested in doing so, I'll help you if you are on Thelanis. I'd really like all those spells cleared out of my mind. I really hate the Spell section of the wiki to be left in the mess it currently is.

Vienemen
11-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Guide has been moved back to the wizards section, link is posted in the first post above.